I can feel a new Muslim wave of new reverts in the western world because of Paul’s incredible choice of guests.

Two white convert brothers, both incredibly bright and knowledgeable and most importantly sincere, are defending the Islamic civilization. This is a minor miracle in itself. Jazakallah Khair as always Paul.

Most muslims from post colonial countries have been beaten down and subjugated for many decades to bow down to Western culture and white supremacy. Thanks to you Paul and your wonderful guests For bringing up important issues like these. . Thank you for your wonderful uplifting work.

As a Middle Eastern I have always strongly felt what you are saying. People here have internalized colonialism, western thought and traditions though, for the most part, they aren't aware of it. Thank you for shedding light on this. I really wish more Muslims would understand this.

Always praying for billions of reverts to Islam all over the world. Ameen ya rabbul alameen.

What an inspiring interview! Thank you, Paul, for inviting yet another amazing guest. As a white woman raised in the Christian tradition, I feel a deep sadness that Islam has not enriched my understanding of the world. Your channel really helps me to understand the narrowness and absurd racism I have lived with for too long.

I used to wonder 💭 why western academia hadn’t stumbled upon the truths in Islam ☪️. But now it all makes sense.

Mashallah wonderful...there is no doub in my mind Islam revival is coming back soon ..the chains of colonialism of Muslim mind are on the way to be shattered ...truly what Allah and his prophet has said is true.

Excellent discussion about a very important subject .Thank you Paul for your great positive work. Thanks for Prof Dr Joseph to bring up this topic

Even my English is not good enough to follow this discussion but I love what I am understanding Much love from Maldives for both of you sir

Dr Lumbard , has raised a very serious issue , albeit true, of how western thought has penetrated the cultures of muslim nations. The term “coloniality” aptly describes the malaise afflicting muslim thought processes today.

I was literally both crying and applauding Brother Joseph for his courage and determination to put the truth as it is, and actually slap on my face and the face of so-called Muslims that lack of it. The last 10 minutes were particularly insightful and eye-opening. Thank you, Brother Paul, for inviting so missed and frank-to-the-core intellectuals who insha'Allah will re-ignite our hearts and minds to embrace our religion even more! May Allah be pleased with your endeavors!

I am so GLAD we're discussing the validity of western education. As someone who has gone through it, and can see the plot holes.....this was amazing

Should be a fascinating and insightful listen

Paul - you are doing a great service. Amazing. Love your videos!

As a Pakistani, I love these brothers. I’ve been watching Paul host these interviews for a little while now and he is so humble and has such an angelic vibe. Very proud of our European brothers.

I am really astonished at Mr. William's way of subject-selection, scholar selection, and the presentation timing. Selecting subjects that every "deep diving" researcher knows, but never thinks about tackling them. As always, thank you BT for job well done, and thank you Prof. Lumbard for great article.

“BLOGGING THEOLOGY” IS A WONDERFUL HIGHLY ACADEMIC PLATFORM. THANKS A LOT BROTHER PAUL YOUR PROGRAM IS SO PROFOUND AND BEYOND IMAGINATION. ALLAH BLESS YOU AND YOUR GUESTS.

May Allah Bless and Reward Both of You in this Life and in the Hereafter.

This is a very good eye opener for us. Thank you both, and may Allah bless you abundantly. You see we have problems when they say you Muslims have taken faith as the basis of all knowledge, which is not really true, knowledge is the basis of our faith. You can't have true faith without true knowledge (ilmul haqq).

I truely love the part where Joseph starts to discuss about the point ‘using the Quran to understand the current monetary system, economics’. One thing I believe, that the Quran explains itself. It does not need other source to understand it. Profound, I appreciate this podcast

Thank you very much, Paul..... I am Indonesian who has been brought up with the "Islamic traditionalist paradigm", and has had the opportunity to learn at a UK university where I learned about the source of knowledge of the Western intellectual tradition. I had that dilemma when I started doubting my own research because I was not in fact confident in the method and had lost its meaning. I've read the works of Nasr and it really inspired me to re-learn about Islam in a traditional way. this discussion really articulates my previous concern perfectly. I also feel that many Indonesian Islamic universities mostly follow Western paradigms, which makes me think that traditional schools should be saved at all costs!

A very interesting discussion about a very important issue. The human-Mind is very susceptible for "delusion" and "colonization". Well done Dr. Lumbard, and well done BT.

Mash'Allah, a thought-provoking conversation with my fellow Muslim-American, Joseph Lumbard 👍

As-salamu alaykoum Brother Paul. The main challenge on the way to the 'decolonisation' of the Muslim mind nowadays is the deliberalisation of the Muslims who think being liberal equals being pro-LGBT, while in fact the vocabulary of even the so-called anti-liberal Muslims is full of liberal concepts. For example, the Prophet ﷺ never complained that non-Muslims are islamophobes who don't like us, while such rhetoric is accepted by the majority of contemporary Muslims. Another example is the numerous Muslims who talk about the on-going conflict in leftist anti-imperialist terms, rather than in Islamic eschatological ones. There are also Muslims who appeal to international law and international community, as if there is a source which guides Muslims to put their trust on the liberal world order. And the list goes on and on. As-salamu alaykoum.

Mashallah, professor Joseph is so spot on with education system in Muslim countries.

Incredible... a really eye opening discussion and insights. Thank you to both of you.

I wish these interviews had Arabic subtitles. Wealth of information.

An excellent title choice 👌🏻May our umma wakes up & unifies again 🤲🏻

MaashaaAllaah! This is a fantastic discussion that every Muslim needs to see. Thanks to you both Bro Paul and Bro Joseph. We are proud of your knowledge. May Allaah increase and reward your knowledge.

Thank you Paul for excellent questions and picking the salient passages from the article to discuss. Jazākallāh khayran.

This is one of the most mind-blowing talks I've ever seen! What brother Joseph said about putting death dates behind certain thinker's names at 9:05 was just... WOW! Really proves the point how language shapes reality subhanAllah and it reminds me so much of the book "Babel"...

Asalam alaykom and thank you brothers for this enlightening and hugely important conversation. This is a critical topic to understand today for modern Muslims. I would stongly recommend reading Islam and Secularism by Syed Muhammad Naquib Al-Attas, it is readily available online in pdf format if one struggles to get their hands on a hard copy. He covers the history of this topic in rich detail but in a chapter of this book he words it as "The Dewesternisation of Knowledge". Jazakom Allah khayran

Another absolute gem of a video. May Allah accept this good deed from you two and may he enter you among the righteous.

Highly recommend; Way of Muhammad

Definitely one of the best BT videos of all time. such interesting ideas. I really liked the bart erhman example you brought and dr.lumbard's enthusiastic response to the closing question

Jazaakallah kheiran both of you brother Paul and Dr Lambert. One Ummah One vision.

One of the best videos on blogging theology!

This topic is very much needed by the ummah and the youth specially. Many thanks for you Sir and for your esteemed guest.

Blown away by these two amazing western muslims, with people like this Islam is in safe hands and has an amazing future inshallah

I am really happy to see such scholars researching, speaking and spreading knowledge, peace and truth. Brother Paul, brother Joseph I thank you heartily and wish you all the best.

Mashallah A great discussion. We as muslims need to lose this inferiority complex.

A real mind opening talk. Thank you!

I love these 2

Thank you both. We are in an epistemic war - we didn't seek it, nor are many of us even aware of it. Keep learning, knowledge is our artillery, check out Nelson Maldonado-Torres on Coloniality, referenced at 14:30, Allahu akbar

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:03 *🤖 Introduction to Professor Joseph Lumbard and his work* - Professor Joseph Lumbard is introduced, highlighting his background in Islamic studies, Sufism, and Quranic studies. - His current research focuses on the development of epistemologies in Islam. 01:11 *🧠 The central argument of Lumbard's article "Islam and the Challenge of Epistemic Sovereignty"* - The article provides a profound analysis of the intellectual state of the Muslim world, which Lumbard believes has been largely taken over by epistemologies hostile to the classical Islamic tradition. - Lumbard argues that many Muslims have surrendered the grounds of intellectuality to the secular humanist and scientistic worldview, leading to an epistemic inferiority. - This epistemic inferiority prevents Muslims from defining themselves in accordance with classical Islamic principles, and instead they try to define their traditions in ways that fit the modern epistemology. 02:30 *🛡️ The concept of "epistemic inferiority" and its implications* - Lumbard explains that the central argument of his article is that many discussions among Muslims today come from a position of "epistemic inferiority," where they do not define themselves in accordance with classical Islamic principles. - Instead, there is a tendency to try to define Islamic traditions in ways that fit the modern epistemology, which comes from a position of "hermeneutical Gloom or hermeneutical inferiority." - This disservice not only to Islam but to the world, as the Prophet was sent as a mercy to all the worlds, and it is the duty of the Muslim ummah to help develop societies where Islamic principles can bring a better life for all of humanity. 04:30 *💀 The concept of "epistemicide" and its meaning* - Lumbard explains the term "epistemicide," which he borrows from Boaventura de Sousa Santos, referring to the elimination of entire ways of knowing and entire cultures of knowing. - This not only refers to the principles of knowledge, but also the manner in which that knowledge is put into action, which is being removed and redefined. - Lumbard argues that in Islam, we have a deeply-based textual tradition and an emphasis on the preservation of those traditions, which allows us to potentially recover that entire ecosystem of knowledge from the pre-modern era. 07:57 *🌍 The framing of Muslim voices within Western discourse* - Lumbard discusses how Western discourse often allows Muslim voices to articulate themselves, but it is very much framed within a humanist universe, where the Muslim view becomes an artifact in a Western museum. - This denies the Muslim's own universe of meaning, metaphysics, and ontology, effectively committing an "epistemic murder" by taking away the whole universe of meaning. - The reality is that many of the voices in the Islamic tradition, such as Al-Ghazali and Rumi, are still living and treasured in the Muslim world, rather than being relegated to the status of historical artifacts. 10:38 *🌐 The concepts of colonialism and coloniality* - Lumbard explains the difference between colonialism and coloniality, with colonialism referring to the physical control and domination of a territory, and coloniality referring to the ongoing mechanisms that keep the hierarchy of the departing colonial power in place. - Coloniality is often maintained through the control of knowledge production, where the mechanisms of knowledge production are used to define culture, labor, and the hierarchy of knowledge itself. - This is evident in the establishment of Western universities and satellite campuses in the Muslim world, which often push Western cultural agendas and deny the legitimacy of Islamic epistemologies. 16:59 *🆚 The requirement for Muslims to adhere to the Western epistemic paradigm* - Lumbard quotes his own article, stating that Muslims, especially those in the "vaunted halls of Academia," must adhere to the system that recognizes the epistemic sovereignty of the secular, Euro-American paradigm if they are to gain recognition or even be heard within it. - He provides examples of how this plays out in academia, where Muslim scholars working in fields like Quranic studies are often required to cite Western authors and downplay or even deny the relevance of the classical Islamic intellectual tradition. - This reflects the entrenched assumption of Western epistemic hegemony, where non-Western epistemologies are seen as fit only for investigation and analysis, but not as valid frameworks for understanding the world or critiquing the dominant Eurocentric epistemologies. 24:46 *💼 Debates within Islamic intellectual traditions* - Lumbard discusses the ongoing debate between Asharis and Maturidis on the role of reason and revelation. - He argues that the idea of philosophy being "killed" or "severely curtailed" by al-Ghazali is a misconception, as there were thinkers who criticized al-Ghazali for being too rationalist. - Lumbard provides examples of how various Islamic thinkers, like Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, embraced rationalism within an Islamic framework. 28:10 *🌍 The paradox of scholars condemning colonialism while being epistemologically committed to it* - Lumbard explains how some scholars in the Euro-American academy remain epistemologically committed to the structures of colonialism and imperialism that they condemn morally and politically. - This manifests in the ways they approach and frame the study of non-Western traditions, such as Islam, often from a position that denies the validity of the tradition's own self-understanding. - The establishment of the Euro-American academy was meant to define the "Rest" in terms that worked for the West and contain them, which has been more difficult with the robustness of Islamic intellectual traditions. 35:14 *🔍 A specific example of the epistemological framing of the Quran* - Lumbard discusses a recent tweet by Professor Bart Ehrman, a biblical scholar, in which he claims the Quran's authors had no independent information about Jesus and simply learned from earlier Christian sources. - Lumbard argues that Ehrman's statement denies the Quran's own ontological claims about itself as divine revelation, ignoring the Muslim understanding and the Quran's own self-description. - This reflects the default secular, historical-critical methodology that dominates the Western academy, which Lumbard sees as a form of epistemic hegemony that brushes aside the Quran's metaphysical and epistemological uniqueness. 40:01 *🧠 Challenging the secular assumptions underlying Western academic approaches* - Lumbard argues that the secular tradition will challenge the "unsubstantiated hypotheses" of those outside its frame, while not examining its own underlying assumptions and hypotheses, which are taken as postulates. - He suggests that the entire secular frame can be challenged, as the postulates it adopts are based on a post-Enlightenment philosophical worldview that needs to be fundamentally questioned. - Lumbard criticizes the "metaphysics of no metaphysics" that claims neutrality while actually operating with its own unexamined metaphysical assumptions and hierarchies of knowledge. 45:38 *🔍 Practical ways to counter epistemic colonization* - Lumbard suggests that Muslims need to stop subjugating themselves and bowing down to the idol of Western supremacy, both within Muslim-majority countries and in the West. - He criticizes the establishment of Western-style institutions of higher learning in the Muslim world, which are designed to create a ruling class that adopts Western paradigms. - Lumbard argues that Muslims have been strategically inept in how they engage with the West, often attacking each other's projects rather than supporting them in a more coordinated, strategic manner. 49:02 *💰 Funding chairs of Islamic studies at Western universities* - Lumbard criticizes the practice of wealthy Muslims funding chairs of Islamic studies at Western universities without proper conditions. - He provides an example of a university that tried to hire a professor of Quranic studies who didn't even know Arabic, until the donor intervened. 50:37 *🏫 The need for Muslim-led institutions of higher learning* - Lumbard notes the lack of a major body that funds scholarships for Muslims to pursue projects within Islamic studies, as opposed to Western-led foundations. - He argues that Muslim-majority places like Doha have the resources and expertise to establish their own institutions of higher learning to advance Islamic epistemologies. 52:11 *🔮 The potential for a positive future* - Lumbard concludes on a positive note, stating that there is nothing really stopping Muslims from making the necessary steps to decolonize the Muslim mind. - He suggests that the ingredients for success are already there, in terms of resources, expertise, and administrative experience within the Muslim world. Made with HARPA AI

Thank you for presenting Professor Joseph Lumbard. The explanations are very enlightening. You two are amazing. May God bless you both

This conversation is such an eye-opener! Thank you so much for sharing these concepts with us and raising our awareness. 🙏

Very nice Paul. Prof. Joseph Lumbard is amazing 🎉

God is great Among His signs are well read scholars and reverts like these two gentlemen SubhanAllah

Very Very interesting watch and on a topic ive never even thought of before. Great talk.

Indonesian here. What this discussion describes is truly felt here. Especially in educational institutions.

Just fabulous subject matter, highly relevant to the current ..Muslim society....

Very eye-opening interview. Jazakallahu kheir. I really pray that the rabid fox in heat becomes a noble lion that can defend itself from its enemies.

Insightful show, and a topic that I'm really interested in right now. Thank you for the links to Mr Lumbard's article!

SubhanAllah,may Allah open our hearts to Islam.

Excellent, this is now one of my favorite BT episodes, fantastic guest and analysis.

Its such an important topic brothers thank you for this . May allah bless both of you

Revert muslims are an asset.. their contribution to islam is much appreciated

Maashallah amazing brother Paul A very enlightening discussion Since the destruction of our caring guardian and shield the khilafah we have been defenseless orphans for more than 100 years. Muslims were global leaders in the diverse fields of politics, military, economy and education. Without our guardian,we were weakened through division into more than 50 states and their rulers are loyal to the cprrupt colonialist world order and systems. It is the time fr bringing bak islam and its ruling system The second khaleefa Umar(may Allah be pleased with him) said "We were a humiliated people but Allah honored us with Islam.No matter how much we sought honor in other than islam,Allah would humiliate us" So the last of the Ummah will not be reformed except by what the first of it was reformed with inshaAllah

This was a particularly fascinating and interesting conversation. I really loved it. Thank you Paul. I hope you can host Prof. Lumbard again in the future.

Salaam wa ragmatullah all Thank You gentleman.May Allah reward you eternally and give True Islam in practice to all humans who seek it sincerely.

Good to see Professor Lambard after so long

Very enlightening discussion with a well-read guest

Excellent discussion!

Shukran Prof Lombard and Prof Paul. May Allah perpetuate you.

amazing guest!!! thank you

may ALLAH bless you and protect you , we can't thank you enough for sharing your interviews , may ALLAH reward you in Dounya and Akhira & Djazakom ALLAH koul kheir 🤲

Thank you Br. Paul. Fascinating hour, every sec was worth a million Alhmadullilah.

This was too short!!! Here's hoping there will be follow-ups or a part 2 at least iA. These are necessary conversations. Thank you to both. I like the example you mentioned of Ehrman. I didn't realize he was going down that route, that'll be a fun ride!

Salam/Peace to Professor Lumbard. As well as you Ustad Paul.

Mashallah. Very insightful discussion.

Thanks you BT ❤

This kind of discussions one of the most important things to do Thanks, really thank you Mr

quite eye opening really. great contribution, thank you both for this wake up call

Thanks to both of you............... Very informative....... Much needed for all Muslims to understand......... Even people born in Muslim countries and living in Muslim countries don't have understanding of this as a problem...... Thanks again to Mr Professor...... keep it up Paul

This has opened so many doors and cleared up so many perplexities (also in my own field) for me. Thank you! Please continue this conversation some time. I could listen for many more hours to these humble and cultivated gentlemen.

All Muslims are brother and sisters,,,and this brotherhood is stronger than everything,,Love for every Muslim,,And pray for non Muslims..

May Allah bless you akhi. I’m going through some terrible times and dhulm and listening to this in the background at work helped me to not ruminate on my sadness.

It’s a shame that there are only 1.5k likes on this video. This entire discussion is very enlightening and important to say the least, and i have the upmost respect for you two sirs. Thank you for a wonderful podcast and i look foreward to hearing more from Professor Joseph Lumbard!

Interesting and indispensable content. Thanks

Great to see the new guest.

Fascinating and very educational indeed may Allah reward you both Brother Paul and Brother Professor Joseph for your contributions. Brother professor Joseph wonderfully answered that last question in regards of tackling the mental or the epistemic colonisation. And I would like to add that when Muslim intellectual like brother Prof Joseph have brilliant Islamic project they must go head regardless of the objections coming from those in the Muslim community who unfortunately always opposes and calls such projects as Haram or Kufr and what not. Go ahead and Inshaa Allah it will be fruitful for the ummah. Jazaakallaah to you both 🌙❤️🌙

Bless you both

Prof Lambard is amazing. Please bring him more often. I would also love to hear his thoughts about the discussion and level of discussion on this topic among the theological thinkers in Iran. The revolution does seem to be decades and decades ahead of other Muslim countries in thinking.

Thanks both of you for this wonderful development My Allah rewode

I checked the links and saved the papers immediately to my Paperpile collections. Thank you so much for making the video and talking about Prof Lumbard papers. Planning to read them ASAP.

Mashallah some of the best and most original content, love it!

Very great talk, thanks

I agree with most of your opinions ; as a young student in the 90’s teachings of Shaykh Abdul Qadir As-Sufi I became liberated from this sense of not belonging and inferiority complex living in the West . The Sufi practices were liberating

Wa Alaykom Alsalam both of you

Islam is the complete religion without a doubt alhamdolilah

Masallah may Allah give us knowledge which we need most aamin

Amazing 👏 true intellectual discussion, loved it...

As a student in a Western university i see muslims being apologetic about their religious beliefs and knowledge channels and usually avoid conversations about it, that widen this gap of muslim input, and their defensive stance makes Western philosophy " the only answer ". Jazak Allah Paul for this precious input to this gap of knowledge.❤

Amazing to listen salam from Afghanistan🇦🇫

Thanks for preparing the program

Nice episode, thank you ❤

السَّلاَمُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَاتُهُ

Great topic!