Department for Transport good news… (finally!) & Heritage railways under threat

Department for Transport good news… (finally!) & Heritage railways under threat | Ep 25

Рет қаралды 5,560

Күн бұрын

The Department for Transport appoints Scotland’s Railway Managing Director Alex Hynes as its new Director General of the Rail Infrastructure and Service Delivery Group, giving us a ray of hope for the first time, which leads us on to…
Richard spilling the beans on a hitherto unknown exchange that took place during the Rail Review 2004 - and why we must heed the lessons on history.
Auditors question the going concern status of the North Yorkshire Moors Railway and we ask whether the sector is slipping into real crisis?
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has been at it again with his private jets.
The M25 closes for a weekend… and we ask whether National Highways has done any media training lately!
Richard experiences train tickets and rail fares madness first hand…
And Marylebone station celebrates 125 years. Not bad considering it nearly became a coach park.
On this episode:
00:00 Intro
03:08 Department for Transport appoints Alex Hynes
06:45 Richard’s experience of the Rail Review 2004 and he reveals a story he has never told before
16:43 UK in a Changing Europe Brexit and the State Report about extra civil servants
18:18 Some good news for Green Signals as a Big Interview is confirmed!
19:09 Heritage railways under threat
35:50 Rishi Sunak is at it again with his private jets
37:54 M25 closes for a weekend
39:30 Oddities of the train tickets and rail fares system
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Credits:
Presenters - Nigel Harris (@railnigel on X) & Richard Bowker CBE (@SRichardBowker). General Manager: Stef Foster (@stefatrail)

Пікірлер: 99

@BecsterDotCom Ай бұрын

Thank you for going through the NYMR accounts. I’ll have to take a look at this year to have a look if things improved. But as you say, these big railways have higher rolling stock and loco maintenance costs as well as massive infrastructure costs. My heart belongs with the narrow gauge railways which i think might be able to ride the storm out a bit better. But it would be a real shame to lose a big one. I fear for the industry - cost of living crisis is hitting all of us hard.

@BecsterDotCom Ай бұрын

As an add at the fares - this is exactly why people won’t travel by train!

@GreenSignals Ай бұрын

Totally agree!

@stevepayne1369 4 ай бұрын

Thankyou Nigel and Richard, another really superbly enjoyable and informative episode...I also love the banter...you are true gentlemen

@HankHill-dt1we 4 ай бұрын

Your show is excellent, I‘ve been on the railway for 24 years and I find all your discussion topics fascinating. Hopefully by the time Mr Merriman drops in to talk to you he will have met with Mick Whelan like he promised to in parliament today and your conversation will be intriguing. Keep up the good work. Regards.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Hank, that's great to hear. Yes, we shall wait and see!

@HankHill-dt1we 4 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals Seems the meeting, if it happened at all, was nothing to do with the current UK wide dispute unfortunately. We can only live in continuous hope someday it will.

@stevepayne1369 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Nigel and Richard, the best uk rail news channel there is...informative and entertaining from two railway legends and true gentlemen..thankyou Steve

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks so much Steve, that's incredibly kind of you. And thank you also for being our very first viewer to give us a Super Thanks! 🎉

@morleypt 4 ай бұрын

Very well done Nigel and Richard - good topical content - excellent

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks. Really appreciate the positive feedback!

@andyknott8148 4 ай бұрын

I can see Richard as a "Transport Supremo".

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

You're too kind. I fear there would be some counter views though! Hope you are enjoying the show!

@james83777 3 ай бұрын

Manningtree for the question of Englands smallest town with a railway station.

@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын

That was indeed the correct answer!

@christopherfox735 4 ай бұрын

In my experience, the less people understand about something the more they want to control it.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

A very wise observation.

@simonpilk 4 ай бұрын

Another superb episode gents and I look forward to the Merriman interview with great interest. I have two offers for the quiz but sadly a small number of people already know the answers so they could not be used.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Very kind of you Simon - and we're looking forward to it too!

@chrishall6364 4 ай бұрын

Another cracking episode; thanks guys! Great to do the washing up to after dinner, and then I just have to carry on watching/listening to the end afterwards.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

A great idea Chris! Making a mundane task hopefully a little less mundane.

@craiglogistics2092 4 ай бұрын

Re - Marylebone 125, the station was very nearly not built because Sir Edward Watkin who was chairman of the MS&LR (GCR) was also the chairman of the Metropolitan Railway and the South Eastern & Chatham Railway and his intention was to have a railway from Liverpool to Lille in Northern France thus negating the requirement for Marylebone, unfortunately Watkins never saw his ideas come to fruition and the MS&LR London Extension terminated at Marylebone

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Did not know that. Thanks!

@adrianbaron4994 4 ай бұрын

Watkin had some impressive ideas and the conception of the GCR London Extention as a high - speed line, built with gentle curves and gradients, to the Berne loading gauge and not stopping at too many towns en route to London, was years ahead of its time. But if he didnt want a GCR London terminus, then how would he have got the line to link to the SECR instead. Perhaps somehow get access onto the Widened Lines seems to be the obvious choice, but Im not sure where or how, then you wouldhave to get through the crowded London suburban lines and into Kent and then to....Folkestone perhaps, and then to a Channel Tunnel. I do wonder how he would have managed all this without their own London station. Maybe a sort of Marylebone but not as a terminus and instead a subsurface station with a tunnel connection down to the Widened Lines.

@guyb3785 4 ай бұрын

Thank you I enjoyed listening

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment, really pleased to hear that.

@ricktownend9144 4 ай бұрын

Really enjoyed watching this episode: special thanks to Richard for his very clear summary of the heritage line issues. Look forward to the Hugh Merriman interview: I feel sure your technical and journalistic skills and knowledge will result in an informative podcast/video. Re the M25 point, I know there have been calls for a 'rail M25', but a better solution might be to connect up the Victorian rail termini better? Is funnelling people on to a cramped tube-train for a relatively short but uncertain journey (ref: Richard's between Kings X and Paddington) the best we can do? Solving this should take significant traffic off the M25! - maybe a subject for a future pod-cast? My suggestion: three through-lines (E-W, NE-SW, NW-SE) with a triangle of interchange stations (City, W-End, S-Bank) so that all trans-London travel could be done with a maximum of one change. Funded at least partly by selling/renting the redundant termini.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. Re your termini connection plan, it's a nice idea but I suspect the logistics and funding issues would be pretty insurmountable obstacles. The Elizabeth Line and Thameslink do provide a very useful version of this though. Cheers. Richard

@robp4682 4 ай бұрын

Hey guys, new to the channel - outstanding work

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Welcome Rob! Glad to have you with us. There's plenty to watch and new videos every week, so we hope you find plenty to keep you entertained.

@TheDaf95xf 4 ай бұрын

Afternoon guys 😊 Fantastic as always with good railway facts with humour thrown in lol 😂

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for that! Glad you enjoy the humour too!

@allanmorton6022 4 ай бұрын

Another great listen. Good news about Alex who I can hope will make a difference, although he did fail to stop Scot Gov cutting Fife services post covid. Hoping for improvements this June. The ticketing story is really shocking and a key reason why the public have lost trust in getting the cheapest ticket, especially from machines!

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Allan. Yes, you're absolutely right, this is a major reason that the general public lack trust in the railway, when they can't even be sure they're getting the best deal for their ticket.

@Richardhill1978 4 ай бұрын

Late to the quiz this week I think I’m going to go for maningtree station but if you go for nearby hamlet Elton and Orston could be a contender

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Richard. Tune in next week for the answer!

@Electricfox 4 ай бұрын

With regards to preservation railways and their financial issues, which unfortunately have been in the rumblings for some time, would the situation benefit from a form of grouping, where preserved railways in a certain section of the country group together to pool their profits and costs?

@cathybrind2381 4 ай бұрын

I've been thinking much the same thing. How viable is it to have a lot of independent groups struggling to survive with few options to support one another? The idea of going back to short lines doesn't appeal at all, but then I don't have to make them work. I'd prefer to see fewer bigger lines than a myriad of itty-bitty ones scattered about, but that flies in the face of what the future direction may ultimately be. The overall threat is surely that we live in a world where the genuine steam age railway fades from memory and nobody will appreciate how well you reproduce it because they have absolutely no idea what it was like and they generally don't care. Just so long as the carriages are clean and the toilets work. If you got a rake of coaches and painted them up in rainbow colours, or football team colours, or military camouflage colours, that would likely be of more interest to the public than another beautifully restored Maunsell carriage in correct olive green with appropriate upholstery. Heritage railways are in the entertainment and leisure business, but there is a limit to how much greasepaint they can be asked to wear without losing their ability to recreate history, and just turning themselves into a bunch of clowns. Even worse than that, what happens if the climate change brigade start chaining themselves to rails to block those nasty polluting steam engines that should be got rid of? And how many people will have the skills to keep traditional heavy engineering working? Clicking a mouse is about as technical as most people get these days. I fear we are just postponing the fate of many traditional steam age exhibits that have been given an extended lease of life, but whose value to the community is diminishing faster than we would like to admit. Can you prove I'm wrong?

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

That's a slightly downbeat take I must admit, but there are some good points there. We do need to rethink the model and that may mean having fewer, better heritage operations.

@paulgater4398 4 ай бұрын

Just wondering if WCR are banned from Network Rail metals due to coaches not fitted with Central door locking. Would this put into doubt of the NYMR operating similar rolling stock between Grosmont and Whitby services 🤔

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Must admit I do not know what the operating arrangements are for the trains to Whitby. But will now try and find out! Cheers. Richard

@LeslieGilpinRailways 4 ай бұрын

On that Steepest Passenger service - did no one mention the Lowca Light Railway in West Cumbria with its 13chains of 1 in 17? Open for passengers 1913 to 1926 using Furness Railway stock??? I would have thought Mr Harris would have known that!

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Very interesting indeed. I suspect we may need to discuss that on the show!!

@simonpilk 4 ай бұрын

Correct Nigel, it is Sterns on the SVR where there is constant movement.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Excellent knowledge!

@simonpilk 4 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals it is only just up the road from here and I am an SVR member so that is classed as cheating!

@ipcress1066 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for another entertaining podcast, one topic that made me listen up was the M25, a road I've used for 40 years. I have to wonder why there isn't greater scrutiny on the J10 project particularly in the light of the scrutiny shown into the finances of HS2 and the fall out of cancellation of 2A and 2B. The J10 project is costing us taxpayers just under £1/3rd billion - a colossal sum of money - to replace a roundabout... with another roundabout. Spurred on by one of your first podcasts regarding BCRs for HS2, I wondered if such a figure existed for the J10 work... well I failed to find anything that I could decipher so have no idea what was given in support for the project but irrespective of that, having used the M25 for 40 years and perhaps world weary enough to make such a comment; every scheme undertaken including junction modifications, three to four lane upgrades and further upgrades to smart motorways have failed to deal with the traffic and hold-ups and I'd be amazed if throwing a £1/3rd of a billion at Junction 10 will make any difference whatsoever. Anyway, yes "A Hard Day's Night" was filmed at Marylebone, plus a small segment at Paddington as well, in fact the 60th anniversary of filming is on 5th April this year. Keep up the good work! Paul

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Very interesting indeed Paul. Might well try and find out if a BCR was done for the junction, although it is likely that the business case was done set against a 'do nothing' scenario which would have shown significant deterioration and probably worsening congestion. In other words, the Do Nothing base would not be 'nil'. I recall we used a similar approach to justify new Northern Trains using PFI in the early 1990s. The Do Nothing scenario showed the 1959 Tube Stock rapidly deteriorating (Vulcanised India Rubber wiring protection springs to mind!) and that made the justification for new trains easier. It's hard to pull the same trick with brand new infrastructure.

@ipcress1066 4 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals Yup "Do Nothing" sounds about right although of course in the blurb I read two magical words were mentioned "Safety" and "Environment", two words sure to push through even in the most eye-wateringly expensive roundabout ever constructed

@MervynPartin 4 ай бұрын

I've already been beaten regarding Manningtree, so just a couple of comments on the podcast:- Rishi Sunak- Probably the most out-of-touch PM in my living memory. He just doesn't seem to know or want to know how ordinary people have to spend their lives, being extremely rich. Flying around in an RAF jet is however a nice perk whilst he can still get it. Heritage railways- They are facing many problems. Not just the price of fuel, but even the availability is under threat. The costs of infrastructure maintenance were quite rightly pointed out, and these are going to increase for those lines that are either long now or extending. I do feel that there are too many lines in competition with each other, often very close together. Unless extra revenue is forthcoming, I fear that quite a few may not survive. Perhaps a regular year round public service might aid some lines where there is a demand, but high ticket costs will not serve that market.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

But is it Manningtree? Have to tune in next week! As to the heritage railway sector, they are all good points. One thing feels fairly certain - carrying on doing what we have been doing up till now is unlikely to be the answer for the future.

@peterfinch5077 4 ай бұрын

The NYMR has higher numbers of paid staff than many similar sized preserved railways and that if not focused correctly will negatively impact the balance sheet. Looking how volunteers can be engaged to reduce the paid staff reliance

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

It would impact the P&L first - with higher opex cost ratios compared to others. It may be of course that if the additional staff are in fundraising or sales & marketing, there could be a positive ROI and the business will be better off. But if not, then in due course the Balance Sheet will suffer as retained earnings are impacted.

@robertmcphee4736 4 ай бұрын

How about Alston for highest town with railway station.

@scottthompson8386 4 ай бұрын

Whilst the answer to the question is Manningtree, its arguable locally here that the station isnt even in Manningtree instead being in Lawford 😊

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Intriguing thought..... Tune in next week to see if we agree!

@AnthonyBrown-jm4rj 4 ай бұрын

Also late to the quiz - how about Dent?

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Anthony - tune on Thursday for the answer!

@BenBourton-Payne 4 ай бұрын

I think the answer to this weeks quiz is Manningtree on the Great Eastern Mainline.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Ben, that was certainly quick! You'll have to tune in next week to find out if you were right though.

@chrishopper340 4 ай бұрын

I agree - but too late!

@thetallguy182 4 ай бұрын

Interesting podcast thank you! Perhaps a generational divide here, but the North Yorkshire Moors Railway is famous also with Goathland doubling as Hogsmeade station in the Harry Potter films

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Yes of course! Thanks for reminding us of that.

@OlanKenny 4 ай бұрын

Regarding the quiz - I would put forth Oxenholme Lake District for the Smallest town with a railway station. Certainly must be the smallest on a mainline?

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the guess. Have a listen next time to find out the answer!

@chrispeel9263 4 ай бұрын

Any thoughts on the latest plan about HS2 from Messrs Burnham and Street?I overlook the stretch between Whitmore and Madeley and it seems to have plenty of capacity for more traffic

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

We will be looking at the plan very soon!

@mrcogginsgarage7062 4 ай бұрын

Good news indeed ,looking forward to see just how much common sense the HHH bring to the Railway,or should we be referring to the Three Wise Men . Richard as your getting the bubble wrap out could I please have a mug for being the winner of the first instalment of the competition,I've emailed you on the website but as of yet not had a reply ....

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

We weren't planning on going back in time for the mugs - but since you were the first, I think we can make an exception! Can you send your address to info@greensignals.org. Cheers. Richard

@mrcogginsgarage7062 4 ай бұрын

Thankyou Richard emailed you as requested.

@OlanKenny 4 ай бұрын

Hang on, a sensible appointment? Somebody who has a clue about what they're doing? In The Department for Transport? I didn't think that was allowed!

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

I know, amazing isn't it?!

@GreenJimll 4 ай бұрын

Richard's split ticketing saving may also have the effect that people who don't know about this and see the £152 single, may end up not paying the high fee but instead choose a travel option other than rail. And once that's happened to them once, getting them to try again is going to be very difficult. And to make matters worse they might tell friends and family and their experience with poor value for money on the railways will ripple out from them by word of mouth.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Exactly so. If you don't know about split ticketing, or don't want the hassle of looking into it, it could definitely just put you off travelling at all. And, as you say, that's going to leave a sour taste that people are likely to tell friends and family about.

@chairmakerPete 4 ай бұрын

"if you must go, then go by train". Chaps - this is how a lot of us feel - even those like me who rather like trains! Sunak taking a plane is common sense for his requirements. A rail journey is going to take longer, the start and finish will have to be padded with waiting time, it will be at risk of the delays that accompany most rail trips, and security will be a major issue and require more [expensive] tickets to be purchased for his security entourage. Book a plane, take off as soon as you arrive, stick the whole team on it, do some work on the way in peace and comfort, and if you want to vary things on the way back in an emergency, you can. Try telling LNER you suddenly need to get to Paris or Berlin urgently and see what their driver can do for you! Rail fares are bonkers, but so are the industry's costs. Fix one, the other can be addressed. Good show, as always. Missed a few lately, but you're still on top form 👍

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Cheers - great feedback as ever. Do disagree with you on this occasion though. Security is not that big an issue really. Many previous PM's have travelled by train and it can be managed in a pretty straightforward way. And you can do more work in just as much peace and comfort on the train to Darlington. The point about changing plans last minute is fair but how often does that really happen when his diary is so planned out in ahead?

@chairmakerPete 4 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals security extends beyond the obvious physical risk of attack, though very sadly, after the murders of two MPs, that risk mustn't be underestimated. I'm also referring to the inability to have a secure meeting in First Class on LNER. I know this as I've had to listen to countless Teams / Zoom "meetings" on said line, and the carriage ends up knowing more than it should or wants to about the sales of apple crumbles in Schleswig Holstein as a result of Darren from Watford telling the whole carriage what's going on at Sunshine Desserts this week. There's a war in Ukraine, another in Gaza, countless security threats from terrorists - these aren't things that commuters would have to consider and any comms about those super-sensitive issues would need to be held in private. A charter plane runs to your schedule, your destination, and you can undertake productive, confidential work including sensitive calls if necessary without Darren from Watford earwigging. Most of your listeners would probably agree that trains are great, but nobody expects serious businessmen like Bill Gates or Elon Musk to try to conduct business on a service train, and neither would I expect the PM to do so. The focus on his use of flights is a strange one, and I think slightly unbecoming of a very informative, wry and high-quality show. Carry on by all means - it's your show (!) - but this sort of side-issue detracts from the real business of how the heck the railways can be made to perform better, which you cover very well.

@robertwilson738 3 ай бұрын

@@chairmakerPete The Queen used to occasionally take a service train to Sandringham. I obviously don't know what the arrangements were but always imagined that a complete 1st. class carriage was reserved for the whole contingent. Security would be easily facilitated by being posted either end of the carriage, no one to eavesdrop and work carried out in comfort. It must have been cheaper than everyone going by car or it wouldn't have happened. To run from London to Darlington, high frequency, must certainly be cheaper than an RAF flight. Quicker than the flight, centre to centre, and cheaper. I do not accept many of your arguments for the reasons I have given. Our monarch is certainly more precious than any Prime Minister and if it could be arranged securely for her then I think it completely nullifies all of your points for such an easy rail trip. Is the criticism of Nigel and Richard a side issue? I think not when Sunak's actions demonstrate the Government's attitude to the railways and I, for one, am pleased to hear about it.

@chairmakerPete 3 ай бұрын

@@robertwilson738 I do believe you're right that the Queen took a train to Sandringham a couple of times. Those were one-way trips, under no particular time pressure to have a meeting at the destination, taking an elderly person on holiday. It's not comparable with a CEO dashing with his team to a meeting, needing to use the travelling time for meetings or journalist briefings. I completely accept an entire first class carriage could be booked out with security posted at each end but imagine the adverse publicity having disrupted a service train by taking an entire carriage! The Mirror and Sun would feast on that for weeks. Would anyone expect someone "running" a trillion-dollar business (i.e. the UK public sector) to get the train rather than a plane? I assure you Elon Musk or Bill Gates don't do business by train - they fly, often by private jet. The wasted time getting to the station ahead of departure, raised security risk, lack of privacy and above all complete inflexibility of trains makes it a non-starter. If I saw the PM taking a train for more than a 40 mile commute, I'd wonder what he was doing. Questionable whether the flight would be quicker centre-to-centre. Don't forget, the PM isn't going to queue in traffic - it'll be police outriders at either end and no speed limits, either. I do feel the criticism of the PM's travelling arrangements is rather snarky and unworthy of this fine podcast. To be clear, I'm not a supporter of the current PM or the Tory Party: this isn't a partisan issue. When Keir Starmer is PM, I'll expect him also to fly to appointments which are some hundreds of miles away, and not be lurking in WH Smith at Kings X waiting for his delayed train to have its platform announced!

@Richardhill1978 4 ай бұрын

Shame you didn’t mention the butterfly railwy

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

I confess you've got me there Richard. What and where is the Butterfly railway?

@Richardhill1978 4 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals Butterley Railway (midland railway)auto correction or fat fingers or both and I didn’t notice but they do have a few lovely woodland walks on site so I’m sure there be a butterfly to be spotted in the undergrowth

@ChrisExley-sk1fh 4 ай бұрын

Quiz answer: I think Ely in Cambridgeshire.

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the guess. Listen in next time to find out!

@vduridalternatives 3 ай бұрын

Tewkesbury?

@GreenSignals 3 ай бұрын

Have a listen to Episode 26 and we tell you the answer! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pK9harJlm62cnqM.htmlsi=-up9PG_nN7PZikMP

@maxeaves 4 ай бұрын

Answer to question; Manningtree

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the answer, you'll have to listen in next time to find out!

@martinoban 4 ай бұрын

What's the definition of a town?

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

An extremely interesting question! I believe that historically in England and Wales, a town was a settlement which had a charter to hold a market or fair and therefore became a "market town". A Burgh in Scotland is similar. Another good clue is whether the settlement in question has some established form of local government (a town council for instance). But I suspect it's one of those definitions where there are plenty of examples that prove the rule is not that precise.

@tantive4 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for accepting my answer for last week's competition, I'm feeling a little guilty for winning on a technicality! I'll drop you an email. Andy Elms, Bristol

@GreenSignals 4 ай бұрын

Not at all, it was a very clever answer. Congratulations on the win!