Is Final Shape the best Destiny expansion yet? 🤔

One of the biggest takeaways from this DLC is that because it was so good you shouldn't buy the next one until reviews are out. Bungie tends to fall back on old patterns whenever they score big...

That snake Witness at 4:29 is nightmare fuel. It’s like he’s the face stealer from Avatar the Last Airbender mixed with Aku from Samurai Jack

I’m so glad they’re not abandoning the future of Destiny for Marathon, Bungie is at their best when they’re cornered.

A friend of mine and myself were talking about the possible future with Frontiers - He mentioned how cool it would be if we went with Caital to Torobatl and liberated it from the Hive. I think that'd be amazing. She came to us and helped us in a time of need, its time to repay that.

The winnower speaks, it spoke to Oryx, and ''will'' speak to us in the raid lore book, one of the currently unobtainable collectables from the raid has the character talking to us.

The Pyramid Language being decipherable reminds me of that one time someone deciphered the Corpus language of Warframe and ended up speaking Void Vor’s speech in corpus. Pretty goofy

Our darkness subclasses need some serious love. Maybe Frontiers will provide answers as we venture into the deep unknown. An extra stasis & strand super per class w/aspects and abilities will round out our arsenal (or a third stand alone darkness subclass as well)

Our guardian dies at the end of Destiny 2, and Destiny 3 we have to create a new guardians, I'm calling it now!

For D3, I don't want to start over. The supers, weapons, exotics. Bungie was able to get away with wiping the slate clean once, but to repeat that would inevitably sour people on this franchise. Much like sunsetting did, much like vaulting content that many people paid for, etc.

About the red subclasd "leak". Aztecross asked Bungie when he went to go playtest Final Shape and they confirmed that the footage was fake. It wasn't real or even a leak

Bungie Said the red subclass video was fake, they said they can 100% confirm butttt they specifically said it in a way where it implied we could be getting a new subclass and that it might be red but that, that one was fake

Ngl those alternate design for the witness could’ve worked as encounter bosses instead of literally making salvation edge a complete puzzle raid instead of a cool final fight against the witness. We could’ve had those alternate design as alternate bosses each encounter the witness gets bigger and more grotesque as it shapes itself and forms itself into something we can’t kill and something that can kill us

I hope Bungie doesn't get so caught up in the idea of "subverting expectations" that they don't go with a red subclass. themes are a good thing, actually, and we're at 5/6 normal, thematically aligned elements plus prismatic.

The scrapped ending of us reviving ghost would have been very bad for the story in general. Is that just a thing you can do now? If it is, why wouldn't we do it for whatever ghost we can? If it's just a one off thing, why is it just a one off thing? Would have felt very forced. Glad they scrapped it.

Just let me take a ship out into the universe and find that goddamn Emperor Raven mentioned in the books of sorrow that got taken by oryx, the giftmast and all of that would love to see the remnants of those worlds possibly free the Raven from its taken influence

There is a ship called Nacre which has the Winnower talking to us again.

if you remember and notice one of the mission (in the Vow of the Disciple raid area), there was a dialogue that mentioned there was 2 circles (like the traveler). one is white and one is blue. something in the dialogue also said "one is opposite that other". my guess, the winnower is that blue version of the traveler.

Wow I just rewatched your unreleased content vid and the factions vid and then you drop this. Thanks for the gift!

always love a new unknown player video, looking forward to the podcast with you and byf talking about the final shape

Always love your videos and the insights you share. No-one makes content like you.

Man it's always good when an Unknown Player video is in my Subscriptions ready to go. Good to hear you again, dude.

Darkness did not create the Witness. The precursors seeked out the Veil and merged themselves into the Witness. So probably the witness thinks of it self as Darkness's first weapon against the Light

I hope one of these exploration episodes will have us fighting the giant space raven that Oryx took a while ago. It destroyed a Hive moon in 1 hit, that's some raid boss material right there.

I always love a new video from you.

They've been foreshadowing the Guardian's death for a while now, but now we know we'll become a part of the Traveler. That's probably the catalyst for D3 if it happens. I just hope they don't abandon Sol. I've always found the real planets and moons more interesting than the fictional locations. Dreaming City is great and all, but I find it way cooler to explore real places where humans have actually sent probes.

The Destiny 3 thing litteraly made me say *"what?!"* out loud in confusion 😂 *Jesus*

Something cool, when you’re going through the prophecy dungeon, on the walls of “rainbow Road” (sparrow encounter) you can see etchings on the walls that look a lot like the circle with a triangle in the center, but with two additions, is seven sided shape outside of the triangle but inside of the circle, and a smaller circle intersecting the circle but only touching the 7 sided shape.

The Winnower does in fact talk to you multiple times through lore, and has also been shown to have spoken to Oryx before he became the taken king. Not only that, but the winnower has an uncomfortably laid back and jovial tone when it speaks. Entirely matter-of-fact and with a weirdly personal familiarity.

the art work at 4:26 looks spooky af, i wish we gotten this look of the witness

There's lore that implies the witness went rogue and doesn't follow the winnowers logic. The winnower follows sword logic, however the witness said that sword logic is pretty damn stupid (obviously not its actual words)

I really hope we get to go back to kind of boots-on-the-ground for a bit starting with Frontiers. It's been an amazing build-up (granted, with some bumps along the way) over almost 10 years to Final Shape and the total power fantasy it is, but it now supplies a great opportunity to get a soft reset power/stakes-wise.

"Hope" also feels like it references the song "Hope for the Future", which talks bout going beyond our sun.

1:50 in the deluxe ship narce the winower speaks to us again.

Ghost says the Darkness gives memories while the Light takes them away. It says this during the mission when we go into the Pyramid on Europa. These 'memories ' of the Witness maybe be memories it's returning to entities, almost like echos of the past.

13:25 nightmares being the 3rd darkness subclass would fit the theme of darkness being thought/memory based vs the light's physical properties. I really hope we get it

Ever since D1, I always knew we would go beyond the solar system. Glad I was right. Hope D3 delivers!

Absolute quality video. Thank you sir. ❤

The Gardener and The Winnower are just two different ideologies. The irony is we actually prove both ideologies true no matter what. So neither will have a reason to really oppose us. Gardener wants to nurture life and believes all life deserves to exist, the winnower believes only the strong should live. As guardians we fight to save our allies and their species that cant defend themselves, thus doing what the gardener wants. Though we do that by proving we are stronger and eliminate our enemies because they are weak, thus doing what the winnower wants.

Thx unknown 😊

The witness was the first knife created by the winnower

It’s crazy how on the fly some story beats are made by bungie like that alternate ending, that being said I think they’ve done great with what resources they had given it’s a 10 year story.

After d1-d2, it only seems right to for another fresh start if D3 is the way they’re going. I do think, however, another expansion setting up d3 with a plot point in how we lose our stuff (the death of our guardian) and maybe starting a new story in a different system with new ghosts from the traveler reviving new people that aren’t class specific

kinda tripped me out hearing Direct in the background. love the taste in music!

It seams like the alternative ending utilised the prismatic subclass in some form, with light and darkness used to bring back ghost. Maybe they changed it after what happened with Strand being too much of a plot focus, they might have thought it would causing a similar negative impact.

Doesn't the lore tab basically flat out say that the gardener wanted to bring back our ghost but couldn't?

Cayde can also mirror the ideals of the Divine, in which the Universal Powers created things in order to experience and perceive themselves in many very old traditions. Cayde being able to be there with you in the Light could ultimately have been the Traveler responding to your call. Since it is stated in-game that Cayde-6 doesn't seem to be the Cayde-6 we know. He is a construct fully made of light, "like a ghost".

The idea of no classes seems to be like subclasses; you can change into any element, but in that model you could also spec into hunter titan warlock

I Love the rough non rendered animations of the witness boss fightand those who didnt make it like saw blade hand awsome(theyre in artstation)

Life is funny. The Final Shape is the only DLC I wasn’t able to afford. Got every major expansion since D1 Beta to Lightfall just to miss out on the very last step. Story of my life.

i like the cut of the ending we got, but the reviving with light and dark does make some sense, in the lore that's how we understand the Ghosts to have been made, with the union of Light and Dark when the Traveler made its stand in the Collapse.

I can see is getting a subclass to pair with void. But also a subclass for prismatic.

You might have not noticed it, but the bottom of the ergo sum sword hilt is a ghost shell. Pretty neat detail on bungie's part

I like the alternate ending, but it adds a shit ton of issues like if we can revive our ghost why not the others we've lost? Targe? Sundance? Sigira? Eris ghost?

"theres always a bigger fish"

The four legged witness model looked abit like some concept art, from D1, that showed a guardian next to a huge four legged thing. also in the end shot of the excision fight, you can see that the witnesses monolith is him. not a building he is in, but actually him. like "my name is byf" said, the complexity of the raid would suggest it has a complicated set of internal systems. like organs and a nervous system, responding to an invasive force.

I think the one thing I hope bungie does is extend the time between expansions. I’m of the opinion that the extra 6 months of dev time is what really made the final shape as good as it was so giving bungie at least an extra couple of months to get each expansion just right is something I could get behind

winnower has had dialog, he does speak

Its a farfetched dream, seeing all of this and frontiers. Cabal homeworld and Fallen homeworld, I would love the tie in of Cabal and Fallen Guardians, would love to run around of as a four armed Fallen guardian as a player.

The Gardener and Winnower characters have both been around since the start of D1.

I think tht the ship we are gonna be using to explore is the dreadnaught per what they said in the episodes showcase

Assuming that it actually happens, I think the "no classes" thing wont be exactly no classes but that the abilities will be available to everyone. Like you have a "class" thats either warlock hunter or titan, thats a part of your characters identity, maybe sets what abilities you learn earlier and/or know by default and dictates what kind of armor you use but ultimately you can unlock every ability. That way bungie can have their cake and eat it too. And technically we have examples of this in lore already like how felwinter was a warlock who used shoulder charge

Our guardian using light and darkness to revive the ghost would have made for a better plot and would have showed that the guardian has a better understanding and control of these forces than at the point when the players guardian was brought back at the beginning of the game.

I want to point out that the sword on our tomb is actually different than the ergo. If you look at the one on the tomb it is basically a d1 sword and while the ergo might look similar-ish the ghost on the tomb isn't actually attached to the pommel and the hilt and lower part of the blade are very different. I think this isn't the same object but rather a copy of the idea, the traveler forged a blade from our memories that was tied to our death and handed it to us in our darkest hour to subvert that fate. It is the symbol of our final failure transformed into our greatest weapon for us to use to forge our own destiny.

So how does Bungie calling Warframe a distant future tye into the future of destiny?

The only other time the tricorn appears is on the Speakers’s cloak on his chest. The lore suggests that the traveler is the gardener and the veil is the winnower. Funny story about nezurak is that he is rhulk in a new body.

The Traveler and Veil are physical embodiments of both the Gardener and Winnower. Two separate, but equal forces. Our Guardian is a fusion of that power. Our future enemies will be even more powerful Light and Dark beings. Perhaps a blight of some kind threatens to swallow both Light and Darkness. Lots of things to consider.

What if the new darkness subclass was red and called something like Strike? It could be like striking your foes with nightmares? IDK, it fits in with STasis and STrand

unknown, than you for talking about the missing 3rd darkness subclass, no one else is talking about it lol

I can see bungue giving u one, maybe two different supers from the other classes. Since Crow did use a titan super in the end, cutscene for final shape.

I've had my titan from launch of D1, he's nowhere near ready to die. I have no desire of exploring the galaxy with anyone else. If my titan dies so does my destiny career. I'm too old to forge a new relationship with a new character like the one i have with my titan.

I can see Destiny 3 not having classes,when you think about it,we have already seen the future. The mission in TFS where the Guardian,Zavala,Ikora and Krow are trying to escape the Witness,Crow fires off his golden gun,then switches to a flaming Iron Lord axe..hunter/titan.

the winnower IS in the universe, and we probably will fight them at some point. The gardener and the winnower "joined the game" and are very much here a part of things. it's literally in the unveiling book.

well so from what i understand the witness is not a tool of the winnower. the witness saw this game happening and wanted it to end so he took it upon himself to try and end the game by not allowing anyone to prove they are the strongest. so in part i don’t think the witness ever was following the winnower. that’s just what we believed cause in the other exotic ship it also states that the winnower does in fact believe that only the strongest should survive (aka sword logic)

If they did a destiny 3, I’d want it to be a single player RPG. It would be so cool to use any subclass and any exotic at any time

Also us reviving The Ghost with the light wouldn't make sense because our light gets severed when we lose our connection to the ghost

Destiny 3 will most likely be us choosing who we want to side with and during pve's we could actually choose wether to engage in battle with other guardians or not

I want to believe that Frontiers will be like the last big update to D2 where we prepare for the exodus past Sol. and when D3 happens we will go to maybe Torobatl to face Xivu or maybe we reclaim Riis (which would be weird seeing that the Fallen took hundreds of years to come to Sol from there so maybe the Dreadnaught will make us get there fast) where we will get "Payback" for the Cabal and Eliksni. They could also nerf us by saying we are to far from the Traveller to tap into our complete power.

If I recall, Ergo Sum looks like the sword embetted in our grave when the player guardian dies and Saint-14 was holding our prayers in season 12 if I recall? It awfully looks familiar.

perhaps the scrapped ending is for the possibility that the saga ended destiny completely, and they reworked it when they decided this was the end of the first part, and the following two sagas were going to be made. melding light and dark so powerfully at the end to resurrect their own ghost would be more final an ending or it feels that way.

the winnower isn’t an evil entity, it’s the veil.

Hasn't Bungie come out and straight up say there's no 3rd darkness subclass, and the footage they "accidentally leaked" of the red subclass was fake?

I think... and hear me out... the reason why the Gardener (the Traveler) is silent is because it is a part of the rule. It cannot talk to us, otherwise, it would break that rule. So... maybe, the Witness, somehow either witnessed the conversation between the Gardener or the Winnower or the Winnower told it about the beginning. Some food for thought.

@6:31 it sounds like the Witness says "see true loss"

I'm hoping that if the classes are eliminated, they become something like factions that teach particular powers when joining them. "Oh yeah, the warlocks over there are all about studying the darkness. Maybe you can get a few secrets out of them if you help them out? Maybe they'll teach you how to blink while they're at it."

I am of the opposite opinion on the scrapped alternate ending. Us using the power of Light/Darkness to bring back our own Ghost would show just how far and powerful we have come. It'll also show that, at that point, we don't even need the Ghost to be able to use the Light, but we do this anyway because he is family.

I really hope Eris Morn doesn't get phased out. I also think that we should be waiting a tad bit longer for all the releases now because of how good Final Shape was. They fired some of their team but imagine if they didn't and followed the same release date. How much more levels of untapped perfectness might the final shape have been then

Mass Effect is the only game I know of where you go to places not in the Sol system. Destiny 3 is more than likely going to take place outside of Sol considering, well, everything. See some kind of correlation?

The bunge logo is on the prismatic loot chest weirdly also

Our gardians grave is just 1 of the possible outcomes for our gardian Edit: Destiny 3 isn't coming anytime soon, and if it is, then it wouldn't take place in sol.

With the Light and Dark saga ended, i feel itd make sense for the Vanguard fireteam and our guardian to finally rest and let others take over whatever is next in Destiny 3.

Kabr sacrificed his self to make the relic and the trailer can do it whenever

I think this can potentially create a very, very slippery slope. It’s not always better to defeat a huge enemy, just to reveal an even worse one. For a lack of a better example, WoW struggled from this massively

this is really cool lore frfr

As a hunter, I don’t like the idea of combining into one class. Ima miss my hunter.

I presume that if Nathan Fillion wanted to stay on they had an alternative cutscene. But it seems like they just got him to come back for the final shape and that's all he wanted to do.

Is anybody else having issues with your other two characters not getting the Hunter's Journal?

The Gardener and Winnower are not the veil and traveler. I’m fairly certain Byf covered this recently. Life basically is a game of survival of the fittest, the gardener and winnower found it “ boring “, decided to make the traveler and veil, to have influence on the game but not directly. They added darkness and light, but there’s freedom for people to choose what to do with it, darkness is assumed to be dark inherently, us guardians show different and use it for good. Light is suppose to be used for good, hive was introduced to it and they still follow sword logic ( I don’t see them becoming allies for good ) The sick game they play, is whose going to basically be the alpha in the world, let the world run into chaos and watch. The witness was the first knife of the witness, atleast that’s what is stated, also in the raid the witness says he’s not the winnower clear as day. The gardener wants life to keep going, regardless if theirs conflict amongst the races. The winnower would like life to end so there’s nobody suffering. Both janky logic lol so that’s why Savathun says in dual destiny when you both pick peace, something like we don’t follow the rules or play anyone’s game and we make our own fate. Crazy to think where this could go, still have the 9 what role they play, still have the other knives of the winnower, if the witness was the first knife, what else is out there? Do we ultimately fight the winnower and gardener?

The traveler didnt do anything to give Cayde the opportunity to make his own fate.

If The Witness is just the knife in the hand of The Winnower, if we ever end up having to fight The Winnower (which I doubt) we stand absolutely 0 chance