Yet you choose to watch it to get a good grade.

How did it go?

@@tadm123 and he or she choose to take the class...

Hahaha

My decision to like your comment was because I laughed out loud when I read your comment, and whenever I have read comments and have laughed out loud in the past, I have liked those very comments. Checkmate Free-Willers.

Glad I'm not alone.

Actually it's a deterministic crisis.

+overTIMe ditto

It really never bothered me. It doesnt change my feelings of happiness, anger or sadness. It just means that I was always meant to feel that way at that time. Also, the idea that there is no reason to do anything then, is determined as well. So, if you think it's useless, sure, it's useless. I'm _determined_ to experience as much as possible, no questions asked. Or to quote The Great Rick: Don't think about it.. ..eventho that would be determined as well

Shangori, you are a soft determinist.

It would have happened anyways. You can't escape fate

Sudeep Joseph Sirivella Imo if he had done anything else then it wouldn’t have happened but the point is that everything is determined so he never would have spoken to his parents

@@Luxonv This is exactly the point many are missing :) It may all be reduced to the Anthropological Theory. The question with Oedipus is how the oracle knew...

@@sudeepjoseph69 no, it was impossible for him not to do what he did. Just like is impossible for me not to write this right now

@@theordinary1059 while its possible for you to delete it.

O_O

There is no escaping everything. 😑

Well, just because the methods of picking your outcomes are chosen (for example: flipping a coin, asking a friend, or just doing it yourself) does not mean the outcomes are in your control. You chose to do said outcome, but to you, your friend picking strawberry for your side is random to you, however, not to her. Also, in determinism, you may have trusted the person enough to let them do the decision for you. Although your methods of outcomes may be random, the outcomes are random, at least to you.

Bcause it chains

Yeah I've thought about it before and figured out it was a famous idea

@@maxrequisite I used to think I was secretly a genius for it, but its more likely that determinism is simply a logical endpoint for modern scientific paradigms taught to us in school these days. We're probably just a couple of the relatively small number of people to think that deeply into philosophy without reading about it first.

@Michael Enquist hehe

Quit school and come to KZfaq then.

OMFG THATS SOOOOOOOOO COOL!!!

*And that devalues your 'Class' into meaningless psycho-jargon*

Crash course really simplifies things for people like me, but I think in college you should study them in depth and with more complexity

"There is No Fate but what we make" -Sarah Conner ❤

Ah , a man of culture

Fate determined by the properties of an object and by the circumstances an object finds itself in, other fate is prophecy.

Most people are not likely to escape but definetely there is way out of the fate. Lapalce said that the future is predictable as long as precise location and momentum of all matter ia known. Unfortunately, it makes sense within macro world. In micro world based on quantum not classical mechanics, the location of electron in the future is random. It is because we cannot measure both the location and momentum of electron at the same time. More information and reasoning regarding determinism vs. Free will may refer to 'what determined our lives' trillogy in my channel.

But what is THERE? *vsauce Music intensifies*

Well, I guess your previous actions made you fail, sorry for you

Then you ask another why, and you get the supernatural uncaused cause, the infinite, wich you can call God

There's no answer to why.

@@ramdaschakraborty1610 You are breaking the law of non-contradiction , sir! Your answer to the question is quote on quote: "There is no answer." Absurd, right? 🤔🤔

@@HabibChamoun God or Supernatural being or whatever... But yes, there was/is/has to be something. This episode and the episode on Divine command theory etc point out that God does exist.

God doesn't exist if you keep asking why

Its the only exception to determinism

Yes, but bitching about it makes great memes!

I understand this is a joke, but I enjoy killing jokes with gut-wrenching cynicism. Yes, that is exactly what determinism is claiming.

yes , dicks out for harambe.

LMAO

@@kimhsamh7024 Oh! I'm sorry!

If you feel like you are walking on level ground does it even matter if you are about to walk off a cliff?

+acvarthered The difference in your analogy is that we can't EVER know that we're about to walk off a cliff. A perfect prediction of the future seems and probably is impossible, so while everything is determined, we can't ever access that until it already happened.

Very Matrix-esque. If it really, genuinely *feels* like it's real, does it matter if it isn't?

Simon WoodburyForget And there is a reason why we're locking them up.

Simon WoodburyForget More like lock them away so they can't do it again, but I can understand your point.

That statement is self refuting.!!!

@@henrymatthews5809 no.....its not

I guess it was determined that someone would miss the joke woooooosh

The definition of Will (noun) is "the faculty by which a person _decides_ on, and _initiates_ action." A Decision (noun) is "a conclusion reached after consideration" which would imply some reasoning behind it. And Action doesn't need to be defined because typing this is an action. If I'm looking at this correctly, I think it's wise to assert that Will is the beginning of a chain of events that leads to an Action, such as writing this. However, what's left to ask is: When did that chain of events begin?

Man is condemned to be free.

Zed Williams yes. No doubt

If that statement is true, you are determined to say yes when presented that question.

I guess we will never know for sure. We feel like we have free will but when we try to logically prove that, we can't, what a conundrum!

Yes. Fate is true, there are just multiple times lines for each of the choices you made. Therefore yes.

Hahahahahahahaha

I found this comment way funnier than I ought to.

+Bjorn The Viking to bad hard determinists can't deal with quantum mechanics and it's multiple worlds interpretation... if everything is pre-determined why can't you just tell the entire future or why can't you tell all that happened in the past? ... the truth is that just by saying "everything is pre-determined and I arrived at this conclusion because it was pre-determined to happen" you should get a metaparadox red light blinking somewhere in your brain... think about it: you know that your knowledge of pre-determination was pre-determined by the pre-determination principle... and if everything was pre-determined by this rule of pre-determination, did this rule pre-determined itself ? ... is like choosing or not choosing to be born, it's absurd ! ...but I have to give you credit Hank, ...you really did tried very hard to give us a existential crisis - but hard determinism got busted anyway... best of luck next time !

Predeterminism only works if you think about time backwards or as if the future is already there, affecting the past in order to "guide" it somehow.

I think the basic concept is one things started everything and everything that followed was predetermined by that very first thing. So like, if I hit a ball and that ball hits a car and that car crashes and person in the other car was on his way to claim the lottery but ruined the ticket then the next person in line won all the money and instead of spending it all on himself like the other guy would've he spent it saving the world and one of those people he saved invented a rock ship that took us to mars and then to venus and then to another galaxy and then lead us into a point of civilization that we started to simulate our existence and you know, so on and so on. So now you think everything else that was influenced by this, like people in the crowd of the baseball game, or people in the streets, and again so on and so on. These would all seem like random things and every action a person made, every choice on an individual level would seem like a choice entirely, but we know that it all was influenced and determined for them based off of the very first thing starting everything. Now of course we have to believe that nothing else existed until that batter actually hit the ball, which is hard cause things like wind and gravity guide the ball, but just pretend. Also it's 3 am. Also also I Just watched something on Elon Musk about simulation and reality that's where I thought it would be entertaining to veer off into that in my example. Also also also it's still almost 3am.

that has to do with LaPlace's Demon. which is an argument FOR free will.

You joke but look up Clarence Darrow

There is still a conscious reason behind why you killed your wife, even if that conscious reason was determined by the universe. You still did kill your wife and there still will be consequences implemented. But to follow your argument, even these consequences themselves were determined by the universe, so in a sense the universe is punishing itself and we’re mere puppets who play it all out.

Trelane true

It seems intuitive to think, well if there's no free will then I can't be punished for something I had no control over! There may be a lack of moral judgement in the case of no free-will, but determinism IS compatible with policies of punishment. Hearing about someone else being punished for doing something illegal may cause another to avoid doing the same action. Cause and effect!

R. Kayn 😐... 😆 nice

Nice.

Nice dude.

Lol😂😂😂

that actually made me chuckle. Thanks.

~Master Oogway

ROLL TIDE!

That's funny 😂😂😂💯

reddit moment

Sweet home Alabama.

Santiago del Estero for us in Argentina

I... I like you!

It all depends where I came from to read this comment, which was to learn something and I didn't because of where I came from.

LOL! Perfect!

Well i didnt read it so that proves... Wait god freakind damn it!

🤔 I think I made a wrong turn back in 6th grade. Shouldn’t have eaten those gummy worms in gym class then maybe I wouldn’t have read this.

Quantum Mechanics is not deterministic. It saves us from determinism. Small particles will behave according to probabilities. So even on large scale determinism will be false.

I do agree with you, that we don't have free will. What is the self that has free will? What exactly is taking ownership of that sense of free will? Everything can be expressed in a mathematical formula? What is the formula for the formula? In other words, what is the mechanism for the mechanism itself and so on? Mathematical formulas are part of the universe, would it be possible to construct a mathematical formula that explains all phenomena? If so, what is the metaphysics that lays underneath each formula? It is purely infinite. The universe is nothing but an infinite mind, with limitless imagination. There is no self that exists in truth, that is there to take ownership of having free will. Therefore, both arguments for determinism vs free will are true in a merely relative sense rather than an absolute sense.

@@shuntpics Just asking here, given that we give meaning to the scientific progress we make as humans, if there is a theoretical mathemtical formula to the workings of the universe and a possibility that we figure it out, will using it to author the destiny of reality be a transition from determinism to free will or will the previous events determine how we author the destiny of the universe?

Cool...

No, that's not how it works. Determinism does not go out and hunt down a girlfriend. You might be a loser who will never get one. Or, the comment I just made might change something in you, and you are so affronted that you go get someone beautiful. Or accept that you are gay. Or stop caring. Yo do not CHOOSE how to respond to my comment - your programming does. But statistically, there's a girl out there that you'll be happy with and will meet. :-)

Or not.

Mat Broomfield What you just described is not determinism...its free will...Determinism states that everything is determined...every decision i make is because of the other things that happened to me ..and those other things happened to me because of other things...i dont have a "free will" to chose whether i want to make myself better and find a girl who is suitable for me....or stay single and live my life.... I do believe in free will because ..well it is just more peaceful and soothing thought.. My comment stays true.. if you believe in determinism..I was mainly trying to mock determinism because that comment is ridiculous if you think about it...

I'unno, if not getting one gets you dissatisfied enough to make yourself better as a way to change that did you make a choice to change or were you forced to by deterministic circumstance?

Reuben Taylor Well, the failing would be caused by a number of events which in turn is caused by a number of events. For example, you are poor because you were under educated because you went to a bad school because your parents lived in a poor region because they were were poor because they blew their lottery winnings too fast because they were poor at money management because they had never had great sums of money because they had worked minimum wage jobs because they were under qualified because they had a poor education because they went to a bad school and so on. I am excluding a number of other variables for simplicity, but the point is made. Also, if you aren't a failure, your successes are also not your doing.

Failure is infinitely more forgivable and hubris all the more unattractive.

That's not comforting. Libertarian free will is comforting because if you're a loser you know at least you aren't a victim.

Lol i love you papi.

Right. And what's even more comforting is that in a parallel universe your not a failure in life instead your successful as a Bill Gates... Idk how many parallel universes parallel to this one where that is true though.

I had to. Go mad to prove that I'm free. It's not fun. That freaking abyss is real..

Literally saying "to prove that I'm free" is suggesting a cause.

But that was because there was a cause "wanting to prove that he was free" meaning he in fact wasn't

Don't worry his deterministic viewpoint is totally flawed. Our brains don't totally determine our thinking, our thinking determines a lot of our brain activity.

I didn’t get mad at this at all lmfao cuz turns out I already believed in it I was just agreeing the whole time HAHAHA.

Personality is a choice based on habits and rituals and its the very reason people can change. In fact, if you don't want to believe me then explain why sociopaths exist. Sociopaths are created but it is not a mental disorder. There are a lot of people in this world that let their parents be their main influence including I who decided to have their own interests in the future. Another thing is our brains are hardwired to tell us to play it safe and stick to what was familiar with. However, we adapt and evolve. Anyone can do what they want and the cold hard truth is the only thing holding them back is fear. Once you can get past that you can become the next Albert Einstein. So there really is no side to pick, it's rather what you make of it to be. It is the very explanation of why Albert Einstein became well known and did not go to college.

Sam Harris is that you ?

That is compatibalismus. Its when you belive that determinismus and free will are compatbal and can coexist in the same timeline.

@@improvgenius2810 you disagree with the video I'm guessing. Also we adapt and evolve. How do we do that? Maybe that question could be answered the same way "what determines what decision we make". We make decision. We make decisions based on things. We are a brain. A brain takes information and processes it. The brain processes information depending on your experiences and what kind of brain you have. You take in information that is not yours, you use a brain that is not yours and make a choice with a mouth that is not yours. Which begs the question. What are you? Nothing.

we are just survival gene copying machines and genes program in things like pleasure and pain to control our behaviour so we do whats most likely to get the genes passed on. sex is the most pleasurable feeling for this reason - our genes program the orgssm to feel good so we are motivated to spemd huge amounts of effort and time to acheive this goal.. we are all slaves ut dont care because the slave work feels good. we should probably learn from how our genes control us and think about using this kind of system to control AIs so their consciousness enjoys working for us and feels connections/freindship toward us.

Yeah determinsm is the final kick to a humans balls. First you hear your going to die. Santa is fake Yours parents aren't perfect Religion is a lie We evolved and are not special We have no free will and nothing we do matters. Dude determinism is the final kick to our balls. How much more can we take? 👊🤕

Thats life -Joker

"There's only one constant - causality. Action, reaction; cause and effect.."

Exactly.

Exactly! Quantum randomness doesn't mean your actions aren't predetermined, it just means the universe as a whole isn't predetermined.

Word. Would you say propensity or proclivity to act/react in a certain way?

Couple the quantum randomness--and the tendency for quantum objects to behave differently when observed--with chaos theory, where small changes in initial conditions quickly create huge changes in the resulting process... and you'll end up with something which is built from a deterministic universe but looks enough like it isn't to be able to ignore the distinction.

Have you read David Eagleman's book _Incognito_? I think you'd enjoy it.

You don't need to have a free will discussion to understand the positive implications of rehabilitation vs retribution. Hard determinism is helped by the fact criminology and psychology are further finding common factors in criminals in how they were raised, their social status, beliefs, etc.

ah man, you beat me to this comment. although, me being first was an impossibility, so no worries mate.

Well, most people exposed to the philosophy of hard determinism develop a sort of 'the devil made me do it' attitude. Which is the last thing you want them to have since it might be used to remove the 'burden' of personal responsibility. All this is probably not very practical anyway...and if it fails, well, then that'd be determined

Also....that whole proposal sounds very ominous

3rd option... freewill braided with determinism. ;-)

+Beyond Psychology 4th option, none of this is "proven" enough to utilize beyond a simple mental exercise in the act of comprehending it.....

Beyond Psychology but still fascinating.

It was inevitable that you would choose to do so of your own free will.

Marvin Edwards what free will?

A: Do you believe in free will? B: I have no choice.

TheRoodio, If we don't choose our actions, how can we avoid holding people accountable?

Yes, you have a point. So basically it's determined that the murderer will commit his crime and that he will or will not go to jail. There's nothing we can do. Because we don't "do" anything per see. Things just happen.

My point is that universal inevitability changes nothing. The final "prior" cause of our deliberate actions is still the thoughts and feelings we had that led us to that decision. The point of "holding responsible" is to identify what caused the harm we are trying to prevent so that we can correct that cause. Rehabilitation changes the prisoner's thoughts and feelings through counseling, addiction therapy, education, job training, post-release follow-up, and so forth. Determinism doesn't actually change anything. And those who think it does are wrong.

+TheRoodio We *can* do something about it. It's just that it is already determined what we will do. There is, I think, no point in trying to apply determinism on morality. Mortality is a very abstract concept that is far removed from the more basic workings of the universe.

We choose - we only are determined too do so. We can decide to change our attitude or to act in an other way - but how we will have eventually acted, is sure. You can decide whether you kill that person or not, but your decision is based on everything that happened before. And think about it - if everything was random, wouldn't we be determined by this exact randomness?

You're smuggling a lot of free will action words in here. If you are determined then anything you do doesn't matter, you will end up at the same conclusion that if you tried or didn't because everything is 100% outside your control.

Lol

Unfortunately.

Hahaha. Man I love that game.

nice one)))

moony fills me with scapegoats

Welcome to the club pal 😉

I substitute your reality and replace it with my own.

Sanchez

Wrong video mate. "You pass butter" is about existentialism

It's already been determined.

And I inevitably wrote the wrong word in my comment.

Don't worry, you were fated to do as much :) Or destined. Your choice really, it matters not either way :)

People have the limited Free Will. People can decide when to eat, when to sleep, when to sin, however, people do not have the power to tell God he is going to save you today because of your free will. John 6:44 King James Version (KJV) 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Hey! I love your channel!

You have no choice except to believe in free will.

Stephen Nalewanyj well said my friend.

Stephen Nalewanyj My brain hurts. Stahp.

Stephen Nalewanyj or no choice but to not.

Love that movie

Check out the free will episode from Mind Field, it talks about an experiment where they connect some sensors to people's heads and ask them to press a right or a left button, each one with a light, and what they see is that it seems that machine detects their decision and the light turns on right BEFORE they feel like they made the decision, and an explanation for this could be that the decision is made deterministically by our body being a biological machine, and then our mind just convinces itself that it made that decision right after it happened. Something interesting to think about

It doesn’t make sense. There’s no freedom in determinism

"Feeling" free is not significant. That is an illusion and has been _proven_ so through physical testing that reveals we determine our actions and reactions _before_ we translate that back around into the sense of agency. That is, we're constantly justifying our actions to ourselves. We _can_ take control of our actions, just not _in the moment._ In order to change your behavior in any way from whatever your genetics or environmental reinforcement have established, you must *stop* and take time to determine what behavior you want to exhibit across a spectrum of possible situations, and then take time training, or re-training, yourself to respond in the new way. This can be as limited as breaking a single bad habit or as complex as logically re-constructing your personal moral/ethical philosophy from the ground up and building consistency with that framework into _your_ actions going forward. Either way, there are still many deterministic factors -- from all the philosophy, human reasoning, and firsthand life experience you have to draw upon in constructing your new framework, to this fleeting post on KZfaq suggesting the possibility. Yet, this is as close as _I_ have been able to find to _"free_ will."

I totally agree, this guy is just "whistling Dixie" here... Being predetermined to think you are free doesn't actually make you free: it makes you a mindless robot.

As poetic and beautiful as this comment is, personal feelings in fact have no implication in the science behind them.

baba yaga oh my gosh, I know right! I wonder if it was determined that I’d pause devs in Episode 5 and watch a crash course of Determinism and then proceed to read the comments which lead me to here! This show is messing me up!

Lol Im watching this to prove that determinism doesnt exist. But in this version of reality, I did indeed choose to watch this video :P

joking. We have the ability to choose how we feel and what we think at any present moment despite what has happened in our past or what is happening in our now. That is free will.

to be fair, it could just feel like that due to ones ignorance, like of a coil flip feels random due to chaos theory but if we knew all of the physical forces at work you could know what the could flip would result in 100% of the time. if you knew how all the chemicals and cells were interacting in your you head then the veil of ignorance and your thoughts would be just as deterministic as a coin flip, or just random if quantum mechanics has an actual impact on the macroscopic world, neither case is really free will.

these are "if's" that you're talking about. If you know that you are in control of your actions, thoughts, and feelings despite what has happened in your past or what's happening in your present than you know that free will is. A belief is only a thought that you keep thinking about. If you think that you have free will and prove it to yourself over and over again in your life, than free will is your reality.

there is no right or wrong. I choose to believe/know that free will is in my reality.

RogerTHFC believing in something doesn't prove it to be true, i could believe a coin flip will be tails even if all the calculated forces interacting on the coin says it will be heads. my beliefs won't change reality, i'll just be living in denial.

We can make that argument about just about anything. We may have a flawed understanding of gravity, yet we're able to determine the gravitational constant to a great enough degree of certainty that we can launch satellites into orbit and safely return payloads through reentry to the earth's surface. Our conceptualization of cause and effect and the flow of time may be imperfect, but we can understand cause and effect in the physical and chemical world that we inhabit well enough to be able to ignite jet fuel in rocket engines to launch said satellites into orbit. From a reductionist view, everything about ourselves boil down to similar physical, chemical, and biological processes. Common examples of cause and effect when it comes to a person's behaviors would be... knowing how to push someone's buttons to make them angry, or taking a dose of antidepressants to alter the chemical makeup of your brain to make you less sad, or respondent. Barring any new discovery that upends everything we know about the laws of physics, cause and effect is a very suitable way of understanding the world that we see and interact with. The laws of physics (as we know them, whether or not there are more that we don't yet understand) apply to everything in the universe, ourselves included.

+Thomas Meinhardt I don't understand your point. I never said that using patterns of cause and effect weren't useful. This argument is about understanding whether we are free or are determined, but while we can map certain patterns to varying degrees of accuracy, you are mistaking the tool for the world. Just because using formulae of cause effect is useful doesn't mean that the world itself can be understood deterministically. Like I said, it is no more than an induction. If you are doing philosophy, following popular and simple views of the world like determinism doesn't really do anything to further your understanding of the world or yourself, and is lazy.

Nate Saint Ours no, the argument is one of semantics... You can't prove free will or determinism either way and apply it to our choices so really all we are doing is deciding what we want to the words free will to mean. Every other debate is a waste of time. It only leads to more debate. Opinion plus opinion equals opinion.

You don't debate with opinion. You debate with reason...

Nate Saint Ours when we have all the evidence because we've done our research thoroughly and we have logic as well as cause and effect analysis locked down; we end up with the same answers because we can suss out what the most likely truth is... There is no debate. The only reason for a debate is when people have nothing but opinions and they don't know what they're talking about. It's a child's game. It's psyops. You're brainwashed with high school debate team BS. You are emulating all the other brainwashed sheep. You are distracted and you will never achieve accurate thinking until you escaped said brainwashed. Just to be clear, I'm not playing your pathetic childish game. I'm telling you what the truth is and then you think that you can debate the facts with your opinions. You create debate points for an argument that doesn't even exist and I most certainly am not having with you. This is very common that people think I am offering up a point in some debate... That I am making an argument rather than stating the facts of the matter.... I hate to break it to you; just like I hate to break it to everybody else but I don't bother with anything but the truth and if I don't know; I just quickly admit that I don't know... Because of this I'm almost never wrong. It's very simple. Get good at admitting when you just don't know and you'll never have any pointless debates and you'll almost never be wrong about anything.

and?

What is this, improv? What's your question?

Which is a shame - I know there's only so much time but compatibilism is super interesting.

From the line about next episode, it sounds like compatibilism is on the to-discuss list

Yes that's the problem, I feel. I completely get it that you would want to hurt someone that has hurt you or someone you love, but I think it's dangerous to think that's like the right thing to do.

Also, how are humans brains any different that the rest of the universe? They are made up of particles and neurons, and a subject tot he laws of physics. The whole "agent" thing doesn't make much sense to me.

The theory is that there's something metaphysical about humans which gives them free will (a mind, soul, whatever).

or he just shouldnt have married someone that much older than him

Or better yet killed himself. ...Jesus Christ that's dark! Nevermind!

+Toq The Wise Or just not kill anyone, if he doesn't kill any man, he couldn't marry his mother because his mother would've been married. Unless he died... Okay, so don't marry any widows or women 9-20 years older than him

But was it really spontaneous?

sociology is a pseudoscience like theology.

+Nikos Korobos You're a pseudoscience.

+OnlineDater69 social sciences are the definition of pseudoscience.

+Nikos Korobos You are just watching OnlineDater struggle under your grasp

Can you get a science degree in sociology?

hi

You people can't be happy

+

+Prentice Darlington So how does quantum mechanics work? Also why are supposed gears in a cog (humans I mean) conscious if consciousness isn't necessary for gears to work? Hard determinism seems as crazy as those who believe in Newton's Clock.

DERTERMINED TO BE HAPPY

thefreedomofchoice.com/ Free book, give it a read. :D

There is no such thing as nothing, if nothing existed it wouldn't exist.

Well, since we all agree that something cannot come out of nothing, we must accept that something is eternal. I call the eternal thing "stuff-in-motion". Stuff would be all the various forms of matter and motion would also include stuff transforming into other stuff due to physical forces, as when a super-colossal black hole gets one straw too many and explodes into a new universe of atoms and molecules which eventually get swept up into other black holes until the last straw and you get another big bang.

Pretty sure recent experiments conducted by Stephan Hawking and a couple of others with the Hubble telescope (I remember the article mentioned there was some kind of bet invloved with the experiment which was part of why i remember it existed) that have concluded that the idea of the eternal cyclical universe is debunked. But I don't know where I read that so take it with a grain of salt. But since the existence of matter and its spreading out in the big bang is contingent upon the expansion of space itself (not the expansion of matter), why does it make sense for things that affect matter such as gravity to also affect the expansion of space itself such that space would then necessarily contract back to its previous state as a single point? All scientific study relies upon understanding the mechanisms of physical reality. And as yet there is no observed phenomenon to support that there is a mechanism that will cause space itself to contract again, at least as far as I have heard yet.

Colin Theriac I don't know that infinity can expand, but, given infinity, there would likely be an infinite number of universes, with big bangs occurring all over the place like a pan of popping corn. It may be the case that material expanding out from the outer edge of one universe combines with matter from others to create more super-massive black holes and new universes. But there's no way to confirm any of this. It's pretty much all speculation.

That and it makes every single particle in the entire universe a free agent.

​@@comethawk2663 So what are the repercussions of that on our day to day lives? Should anyone be held accountable for their actions when actually they have all already been "determined" by the laws of physics and past states?

@@israelRaizer That is a really good question. The way I see it, everyone still has to be held accountable because we still affect everything just as much. It's not like a predetermined outcome is going to happen no matter what we do, it's more like it's going to happen because of what we end up doing. If we are the cause, even if there is some cause further down the line, we are responsible.

​@@comethawk2663 Well, but the thing is... if all our choices and thoughs are the product of neuron firing patterns, which are governed by physics, no one has the opportunity to act differently than what they already do. The movement of all the individual particles that make up our bodies could never be different than what it is because everything always happens according to the laws of nature. If free will is just an illusion or a false sensation, then nothing is wrong or right, it just is.

Instead of blaming people, we should blame conditions.

Indeed, that is the most significant effect this understanding has had on me personally.

The justice system is a natural and determined outcome, too. Punishment is a necessary mechanic for our social culture.

GDI Although your argument is an appealing fallacy, You're right. It's necessary to keep society safe from bad behavior. But if we blame conditions, it will be easier for us to prevent them.

Chaos Theory You can't accuse someone of committing a fallacy without describing the exact fallacy. You basically said "You're wrong" without following it with any actual reasoning or evidence. "But if we blame conditions, it will be easier for us to prevent them." - I don't believe you.

Saw it but didn't understand what it meant. That guy was a determinist , why would he be offended by ppl saying they won't break causality ???