Diagnose Misfires With A Relay | Automotive Oscilloscope Diagnostics | Mechanic Mindset
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4 жыл бұрынCan you turn an ordinary relay in to an oscilloscope probe tool for automotive diagnostics? We strip the relay down, connect it up to the PicoScope and see what we can pick on on the ignition coils. This turns out to be a great tool for ignition coil diagnosis and to help diagnose misfires; and this one was free!!
P.S: I meant resistor, not capacitor. Some relays have a diode instead to do a similar job of ‘soaking up’ the spike
Link to PicoScope Waveforms: www.mechanicmindset.com/share/76
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Video Links:
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CAN Bus Multimeter Test - • How To Test CAN BUS Wi...
5 Easy Oscilloscope Tips - • BASIC AUTOMOTIVE OSCIL...
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Hantek CC-650 Amp Clamp - • HANTEK CC-650 AUTOMOTI...
@MechanicMindset 4 жыл бұрын
P.S. I meant resistor, not capacitor! Some relays use a diode. Check out this video for the original inspiration of this test 👍 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/g7V8nZinrK-oo5s.html
@menombakglobalis 6 ай бұрын
Yes, usually the resistance value of the resistor is three times the impedance of the relay coil.
@Motrus01 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Darren. Your videos and tutorials are very well explained. Clear and precise. It takes a massive amount of time and effort to put these videos together. Thank you and keep them coming...👍
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
J Lang Wow, thanks for the kind comment! You are spot on, it take a lot of time and effort! But comments like this give me the motivation to work through the MASSIVE list of content I have got planned for you all! Thanks for the boost! 👍😃
@rsbharley4766 3 ай бұрын
Excellent video, great info. Thanks for taking the time to share. Cheers
@VidarXR 2 жыл бұрын
I have been looking for quality content like this. Thanks.
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Great to have you on the channel! 👍
@GrandePunto8V 3 ай бұрын
Try optical coupling. If you put just bare LED (white or blue) to the leads, it will blink. Same with classic fluorescent tubes. Of course, works only in the night. Now it's just a matter of picking that up with a scope, via photo-diode (transistor or resistor maybe). Might need a bias voltage to activate the sensor.
@tillwv11 Жыл бұрын
This is a bright idea and it really works. Thanks!!
@f.crepairs2461 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you this video! The relay work wonders! Awesome tip! Keep it coming!
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
It's cool right?! You can also use an old inductive wheel speed sensor or crank sensor! Glad you're enjoying the channel, cheers!
@iankelly2110 3 жыл бұрын
looks great Darren definitely thinking outside the box
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Ian Kelly Cheers Ian, nice little tool and it has other application too. 👍
@stevestadnik9206 4 жыл бұрын
It's actually a resistor. It provides a path to ground for the high voltage spike from the collapsing coil current. Some relays had diodes for this purpose. I guess resistors are cheaper.
@MechanicMindset 4 жыл бұрын
Steve Stadnik Yep, realised my mistake, see pinned comment 👍. Slip of the tongue! Thanks for watching
@juanmgomezb 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent tip. I like the way you explain and adopt another way to see it
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video!
@bobcombs7138 3 жыл бұрын
I'm new to the channel and very much glad I found it. That was an awesome vid for sure! Who would have thought of that! It's this type of mindset that I appreciate. Thank you.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Welcome! Great to have you on the channel! Glad you enjoyed it, I was inspired by a few other methods to do similar tests. You can also use an old inductive crank sensor too. Cheers! 👍
@AN77 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, i learn alot from your videos.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
AN AN Great to hear! Thanks for watching 👍
@jagjitsiyan6600 Жыл бұрын
I like the way you illustrate and explain diagnose and troubleshoot
@MechanicMindset Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback, I hope you enjoy the rest of the videos? Are you pro or DIY mechanic?
@jagjitsiyan6600 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset DIY and help a dear friend in his garage
@jmc6940 2 жыл бұрын
That was brilliant mate.
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Cheers Justin, I was pleased with the results!
@nickayivor8432 2 жыл бұрын
👌 👏 KNOWLEDGEABLE Mechanic Mindset Thank you for sharing it with us 👍 Mechanic Mindset From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
@diesalweasel 3 жыл бұрын
I love your ideas and they work well
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks! You gonna give this one a go? It might work on more than coils 👍
@f.crepairs2461 3 жыл бұрын
It’s amazing what we can do with a picoscope. Thank you for sharing
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
They’re great right, more of this type of content to come 👍
@f.crepairs2461 3 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset thank you 🙏
@A-lc7ju 3 ай бұрын
beautiful vaveform
@baxrok2. 4 жыл бұрын
Very creative. Thanks for sharing!
@MechanicMindset 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers!
@timgroleau1612 Жыл бұрын
Had the same idea but didn't try it. Using a small salvaged transformer or other coil type spare part. Thanks for the verification.
@jandanko974 3 жыл бұрын
Hey man! I discovered your channel only yesterday, but since then I just can not stop watching your videos. SO helful and informative! This idea with using a relay (with resistor removed) is plain genius! Im really looking forward to try this on my own. Could you share your other ideas on how to use the relay as a oscilloscope pickup? And, please, continue with your videos!
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
So glad you found me and enjoying the channel. Great to have you! I like the relay truck too. There are indeed other applications for this types of test, got them on my list with lots of other quirky tests. Plenty more to come! 👍
@Ahmed605 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I. Learn. From. Your .videos
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Great to hear!
@boss99gt 4 ай бұрын
That's freaking cool
@HakkiOgrt 7 ай бұрын
Thank you, I subscribed.
@CarsExposed 4 жыл бұрын
Signal was pretty good there Darren , I mean after the capacitor out of the way 😊, interesting the things that you can use for a pick up 👍👍👍👍 have a great weekend mate 🍻
@MechanicMindset 4 жыл бұрын
It was right!? Pretty pleased with that; we have used the same technique to check the operation of capacitive door handles in keyless entry cars in the past. Cheer Igor, you too! 👍
@everythingbutkoi6898 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks I was planning on buying one but now I will make one , cheers
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Haha! I think you’ll be impressed! Let us know how you get on 👍
@everythingbutkoi6898 3 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset I have a LPG forklift atm and I can determine if it’s fuel or spark that’s my issue, but that tool will help I think
@robertmedina6875 3 жыл бұрын
That is very awesome that you're going to let us get your files from waveforms! Great video thanks for your hard work I am a new sub so I hit like & subscribe
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the video! Maybe I will set up a community where we can all share our know good and bad waveforms. I hope you find it helpful. Thanks for the sub 👍
@michaelsawyers1002 3 жыл бұрын
great video! well explain
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@DJ-tn7vj 3 жыл бұрын
Man keep it coming bro.b
@mechanicmatt871 4 жыл бұрын
Nice tip 👍 the signal looks great.
@MechanicMindset 4 жыл бұрын
Mechanic Matt Cheers! Better than the coins right? 👍
@mechanicmatt871 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah it's very impressive
@diydantex6150 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for your post. I was able to build a relay probe. I can see a good square wave on Toyota COP using the Autool DM303. I haven't tried it with a scope yet. I will post pictures when i get a chance. I will probably paste ton their facebook page tonight. Thanks again
@MechanicMindset 2 ай бұрын
Awesome!
@stevetaylor2445 2 жыл бұрын
brilliant idea
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
I love this one too! Gonna give it a go?
@stevetaylor2445 2 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset I for sure will This is my go-to at the moment: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jdxnd5l73rWniWw.html
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
@@stevetaylor2445 Denis had some cool videos! 👍
@1vaquita 3 жыл бұрын
Beautiful......!!!!!
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the video!
@mike-yp1uk 11 ай бұрын
Thats awesome and if you use another tool and over lay you can come up with a kv value perhaps. Very good video. Im making my own pulse sensor thanks for showing me.
@MechanicMindset 11 ай бұрын
Great idea, although be careful as all could aren’t built the same. I get different levels from different coils 👍 cheers
@alanhood9675 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Darren, Interesting video! I think that relay had a diode in it as it had a white line at one end ( +ve end) before you chopped it.. I would be very interested to see what happens if you rotate the relay 90 degree sideways to see if it picks up a stronger or weaker signal. Also worth tying it with the core of the relay pointing down. The strength of the magnetic coupling all depends on which way the ignition coil and its' core is oriented compared to your coil. I would try myself but not got my scope yet. Ordering one soon. Keep up the good work, very inspiring.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Definitely a resistor; this one is around 90 ohms. Although, some relays do have diodes. Never thought of changing the orientation of the coil, good idea. I will try next time 👍
@JoesAutoElectric 3 жыл бұрын
Very cool!
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Joe's Auto Electric 👍
@user-bp1sw1wh8e 2 жыл бұрын
very useful method. have a nice day~ :-)
@annacersongor8553 Ай бұрын
High, great video, but it's not a capacitor, it's a diode. Thanks for sharing, continue.
@MechanicMindset Ай бұрын
See pinned comment “resistor” 😁 I realised my mistake when editing 🫣 Thanks!
@Gilsal89 3 жыл бұрын
Darren good video tank you I also saw a video of someone using a ford crank sensor
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Cheers, yeah for sure, old type crank sensor is perfect for this. Give you give it a go yet? 👍
@stephanevaucelles6378 3 жыл бұрын
thank for video
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
stephane vaucelles 👍
@jwoeltje6949 3 жыл бұрын
Great experiment. Would be interesting if you took three relays wire them in Series and checked all three coils at one time
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
J Woeltje Now there’s a great idea. We had a similar tool at BMW; 6 inline pick ups that would clip on to the top of each coil and connect the scope at the other end. Probably more expensive than using your method! 👍
@sollykhan2385 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome video's Darren, keep on churning them out, please, loved this relay tutorial, i need to experiment myself on various things with the oscilloscope , 🙂
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Glad you enjoyed the video! What oscilloscope are you using? Thanks for the comment 👍
@sollykhan2385 2 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset Thanks for the kind response , Darren, i'm using an Hantek 3064A 4 channel 60 Mhz oscilloscope , i have 2 others, Snap on LS2000 (for older classic car's that i still get from my older customers out in the sticks) who own car's such as MGB GT's , Jaguar E types, Healey's, Sprites,Midgets, MK 2 Jag's (3.8 S types with triple carbs) and a whole host other strange and wonderful car's like Classic Capri's, Zodiacs, Mini Cooper 'S' , Lotus Cortinas (with twin 40 Webers) and a couple with Dellorto carb's, , i also have a fully working in almost mint condition a SUN Electronic Engine Tuner 1120, with an awesome, display/Raster/Superimpose scope, which is mind boggling, considering it's nearly 60 years old, and works faultlessly , i wish we could still get these older car's and ancient relics of diagnostic gear too, as i know them like the back of my hand, i went to Suntester in Kings Lynne , way back in july 1971, on a training course, such wonderful memory's , keep up the great work,🙂
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
@@sollykhan2385 Awesome! My grandad and his brothers had a mobile home tuning business with the Sun testers fitted in the back of their vans! I remember those things. My dad worked with them for a bit too; he loves talking about tuning up old cars and what they used to look at on the Sun tester! What area of the UK are you in?
@sollykhan2385 2 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset wow, that sounds fantastic, you cannot beat them old school tune-up machines, setting the points while the engine is being cranked and adjusting the base plate on just the 'DWELL ANGLE' (as feeler gauges were often contaminated,as well as a worn distributor lobes unevenly worn, setting the tappets whilst the engine was running 🤥, and setting up the twin or triple carbs with a tube to my ear 🙄!! such glorious day's i can tell you, i'm in my late 60's, though i look and feel 40 !! still work 7 days a week in my own place, i'm based in the west mids, ( Birmingham) BLESS , keep them video's coming please.😎
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
@@sollykhan2385 Haha, I know of these techniques. I’m only down the road in Coventry! Will have to catch up sometime 👍
@rajdindial6740 3 жыл бұрын
Impressive
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Cool right?!
@user-yv3lo2gx5r 3 жыл бұрын
very thanks
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for watching
@weloveups831 7 ай бұрын
That was awesome. I will give this ago. Did you use any attenuation?
@billytremoloband7456 3 жыл бұрын
New to the channel as of today, that’s just brilliant! Defo help save a few quid which could be put to better use for some other tools.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Billy Tremolo Band Welcome! Glad you enjoyed the video and the prospect of saving some pennies!! 👍
@billytremoloband7456 3 жыл бұрын
Mechanic Mindset I’m currently in the market for a scope and new scanner defo thinking of trying your Pico scope hack
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Billy Tremolo Band Cool, this little scope is great to start and will cover a lot of your needs. Plus if you want to upgrade, all the accessories will work with the higher spec scopes. Got links in the description for all the kit I use 👍
@billytremoloband7456 3 жыл бұрын
Mechanic Mindset What would your opinion be on an autel 906 scan tool?
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Billy Tremolo Band Sorry I need to be honest, I’ve not used it before. I have used OEM/dealer tools for most of my career. There are some FaceBook groups for diagnostics and they would be best to ask. Although prepare for 50 different opinions 😂. I have heard the autel equipment is good. Launch is another they gets good reviews 👍 I was with a guy the other day who had the snap on verus that has the built in scope too. Lots of options
@alrifainidal 3 жыл бұрын
great video . i liked the idea thank you very much
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Nidal Alrifai Cool eh? Inductive wheel speed of crank sensor would be good too 👍
@alrifainidal 3 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset maybe one day you will make video about that too ..
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Nidal Alrifai Maybe, but I am going to give the ignition coil testing a rest now for a while 😂😂. Have some cool CAN tests to share and a few other ideas you might like. Hope you don’t mind me asking; are you DIY or pro and what would you like to see more videos of (asking as you are a loyal viewer!)
@alrifainidal 3 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset absolutely i will be glad to watch it . i am thankful for what you doing .. I am DIY . and love these stuff . i would love to see more CAN test more . you have a great time
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Nidal Alrifai 👍
@Shelby-ug5cl 2 жыл бұрын
Hey Darren. Thanks for posting these helpful videos I feel like I understand the oscilloscope world much more and it helps me diagnosing problem on modern vehicles and repair them properly. I actually enjoying using the oscilloscope as well I use to be afraid of it. I wanted to experiment your relay tool for ignition coil just wanted to know if you use a attenuator with the relay for your ignition coil pickup on the oscilloscope?
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
No, I didn’t use an attenuator. If you are in dire just gradually approach the coil you are measuring. Glad you are enjoying the content! 👍
@Shelby-ug5cl 2 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset 👍
@blow0me 4 жыл бұрын
pretty cool
@MechanicMindset 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers!
@MechanicMindset 4 жыл бұрын
PS I saw your original; I did mean to say resistor, not capacitor. But you are right, some relays do use a diode to soak up the spike 👍
@blow0me 3 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset haha, I wondered myself, then I seen it and it didnt look like a diode, although a diode is common to suppress the spike.
@sandyande 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers Darren, Relays will now be going AWOL left, right and centre LOL cheers sandy
@MechanicMindset 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers for watching!
@dingpongchi632 3 жыл бұрын
Do you think if get a Hantek HT 25 secondary inigtion probe, cut those clamps away and solder the wire to relay pin 85 and the ground wire to pin 86 will work? then we have proper a BNC connector/cable and an Attenuator on the whole assembly. and it still cheaper than the paddle probe.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, what you could do (to save a lead), is add female 4mm/banana and attach these to the relay. You can then just use your normal leads. Also, I believe the HT25 has an attenuator in line which would affect this signal. You can also get BNC connectors, see my ‘Kit’ link in description and go to the DIY section 👍
@the_retired_mechanic 4 жыл бұрын
Great trick that. Learning so much. I couldn't see if you was protecting the scope with a attenuator while just using the relay trick. Can you confirm if its needed
@MechanicMindset 4 жыл бұрын
Cheers! I wasn’t, but as you drew the relay to the coil, you would start to judge whether you needed it before fully committing. Or just use the attentuator first, just to be safe 👍
@chekelley6861 3 жыл бұрын
You should only need an attenuator when checking primary coil voltage (directly plugged into the coil wires) or when checking fuel injector voltage waveform. Using an attenuator in this situation will defeat the purpose of using a coil in the first place.
@shawtyel7503 2 жыл бұрын
Wat scales are you using.thank you
@northpostman 2 жыл бұрын
Do you think that leaving the resistor connected would protect the scope in any way in the case of a voltage spike? Maybe if you lowered the voltage setting on the scope you would get a good waveform with the resistor connected.
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, if you were concerned it might give you some protection. You just get a smaller less sidings pattern which you could enhance with some settings. This was fine though 👍
@davesterl 4 жыл бұрын
great looking waveform there
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
dave sterl I was impressed too! 👍
@gremling72 2 жыл бұрын
Hi, thanks for a good video, very informative. Just a quick q for you, on the coil part of the relay, You have red (positive) probe end connected to one side, and the ground part (wire with croc clip) of that probe connected to the other end right? Or are you using 2 leads where 2nd lead is connected to common ground on Pico? Regards Gremling
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Gremling, I just connect the two scope leads to each side of the relay coil. Pin 85 and 86 of the relay 👍
@alibatebi2161 3 жыл бұрын
hello is it possible to use permanent magnet insted of coin for stronger wave form or it will damage the scope.thanks
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
ali batebi Great question! I have not considered trying that; you can also use an inductive speed sensor which generally have magnetic properties, but also have a coil wrapped around them. I don’t think it will damage the scope.
@arthurfricchione8119 3 жыл бұрын
Darren that works really well. Will have to try it. Is that a capacitor or a diode? I know what your saying it’s absorbing the spike just wondering which one it is or are they both accomplishing the same thing wether a diode or capacitor 😊 Artie
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Slip of the tongue in the video, it’s a resistor. Although some relays use a diode 👍
@navgo118 3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant work. Thank you for sharing this. I am looking at investing in a scope and do you think I would miss out a lot if I stick to a 2Ch. if time permits can you share your thoughts on 2ch limitations vs 4ch.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Hi! You will be able to test most things with a 2 channel, but a 4 channel would be best. Although, this 2204A is really cheap, you can see how you get on and always upgrade if needed 👍 Thanks!
@navgo118 3 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset Thanks for the quick reply. I am catching up to speed with all your videos. enjoyed everyone of it. Heaps to learn from you. currently stuck with a Lin master 21 error on a F55. Lin bus on network on ista doesn't show a 21. So thinking its high time to get a scope to eliminate the guess work. keep up the good work.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
@@navgo118 Glad you’re enjoying the channel! I don’t currently have any LIN videos, must stick it on the pile! Hope you find your issue soon, and a scope would help for sure 👍
@vinnievinnie7460 2 жыл бұрын
I purchased a 2204A based on your recommendation and love it, still trying to figure out how to use it. My waveform seems inverted when I try this with a relay. Is there a setting to invert the signal?
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome! Such a great tool for the money. Yes! Hit math channel option in tools and select invert 👍 Look put for my online training, hope to launch in the next few weeks. I cover every setting
@northpostman 2 жыл бұрын
If you switch your leads it may invert the waveform.
@d.d4184 3 жыл бұрын
Very nice. Would it be easier to use an Inductive sensor?
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
D. D Cheers! Yeah for sure, that would be a great alternative and totally designed to pick up ‘magnetic signals’. I don’t have one lying around 😂
@TheGibby3340 3 жыл бұрын
Good image...does it differ much from the basic “coin” setup. Cheers Darren
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Much better! 👌
@DJ-tn7vj 3 жыл бұрын
Bro what the hell. I'm going to try this one.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Haha, I like this one!
@alanw5879 3 жыл бұрын
How many ohms are the BMW relays? I have a coil of wire that's 550 ohms, but I'm wondering about attenuation. My scope won't handle a voltage spike, should I run a ground to the engine too?
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
They are between 90 & 110 ohms. What you could do is connect it up and gradually reduce the distance to the coil. You can then monitor if the max input voltage will be reached.
@gonzalohernandez88 3 жыл бұрын
Hello, I have a 2204 picoscope that when I connect it to any sensor the motor starts to fail, when I disconnect it it stops failing. Do you have any idea what could be happening?
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, just check that your leads are ok; disconnect and check resistance between red and black lead. Also, are you only using one channel? The ground of channel A and B are connected/common. So sometimes if you use another channel and the black lead is on a live, that will cause problems. Also check scope by testing battery voltage. Let me know how you get on 👍
@tiztiz5839 Жыл бұрын
Holy shit , I never knew how to open those Bosch relays wow
@MechanicMindset Жыл бұрын
🤣 saves stabbing your fingers with screw drivers (which I’ve done before!!)
@leonardwalker9496 2 жыл бұрын
Curious to know if this works on VW 4 wire coils which seem to be more insulated
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Hi, pretty sure it does; I learnt this when I was a Technical Trainer at Audi 👍
@robertfrancisco1193 2 жыл бұрын
i found another way for doing a COP WAVEFORM using a SECONDARY IGNITION PICKUP from Autel. putting a flat piece of copper about the size 2x2 in. between the clamp on the coil top and got a waveform. also just using the clamp will also pickup a signal. give it a try and tell me what you think.
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
I like it! You can get a waveform by pressing the back probe against the coil too 👍 thanks!
@georgebell3964 Жыл бұрын
👍
@otiliohernandez8349 2 жыл бұрын
Do I need an attenuator when testing with the relay to protect the scope?
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
No, it should be fine with out it. But if you are unsure, you can put one on. Don’t worry too much if the voltage exceeds the 20V. I he 2204a has 100V protection
@leftyspinn 3 жыл бұрын
Are you using an attenuator for this test? I also noticed your volt scale was only 10v. Is that correct?
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, no attenuator needed 👍
@user-yv3lo2gx5r 3 жыл бұрын
pico 2405A OR 2406A can work to PicoScope Automotive ? thank you
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
張明安 Hi, 2405A 25Mhz will be fine. 2406B 50Mhz would give a better ‘resolution’ for zooming in on longer term measurements. I use 2204A which is 10Mhz, it’s fine for most but got great for zooming. You might as well buy the automotive scope (without accessories), around the same price then you get access to the waveform library and auto diagnostic software 👍
@baits9301 3 жыл бұрын
Can someone tell me what is the black wire connected to , from relay coil to where , red is the pick up . and black goes where .
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, both of the leads connect to the oscilloscope (positive & negative), just like a multimeter. Hope that helps 👍
@jamesbarratt593 2 жыл бұрын
Just a question. Compression test. What amp clamp you recommend?
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Hantek CC650 is the cheapest, but you could spend a bit more for the equivalent Pico clamp
@jamesbarratt593 2 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset So I knew it was 650 but somehow ordered 65 and when it turned up it was in the wrong box. The box was labelled 650. I only noticed when I was moments away from trying to do a relative compression test. Double gutted as I bought building foam with special spray head to insulate new van this weekend too. The 5 cans turned up without the nozzles. Right well I just bought the 650 Hantek clamp and it should arrive for tomorrow. Got a car on at the moment which I think would challenge even you to find the fix.
@philh9238 2 жыл бұрын
What setting are you using on the scope?
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
4:20 - 1ms & 10V
@northpostman 2 жыл бұрын
Were you also using an attenuator in your hookup?
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
No not required for this. Although you can put one on just incase. The scope has 100V over voltage protection anyway 👍
@ilovear15 10 ай бұрын
I was wondering if you could give the relay's brand / part number? Thanks
@MechanicMindset 10 ай бұрын
Hi, not sure. It’s a Tyco BMW relay. Any relay will work 👍
@dabay200 2 жыл бұрын
The symbol on the relay housing is not a capacitor it's a resistor (to reduce the effect of back emf, ideally it should be a diode). Also a capacitor across the primary coils of a relay makes no sense as it will create an potential oscillator circuit (which will decay when input power is disconnected), which is undesired behaviour.
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Yep 100%. Please see the pinned comment. Slip of the tongue. Also see my video, ECU Killer, I think you’ll like it 😁
@walterkelling5694 3 жыл бұрын
I tried this and it produces a better waveform than my pico COP probe. Took a mini 4 pin relay and put it next to an injector like the results
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome! I must give that a go! 👍 What else do you think it might work for? I have a few ideas
@walterkelling5694 3 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset I used a GM 8430 relay, removed the resistor and cut off pins 30 and 87. Was impressed and will most likely use it more than my COP probe. On an injector you can see injector on time and pintle open and closing. When I get time I want to compare with traditional current and injector voltage and see how they look.
@nedhirdouiri 3 жыл бұрын
If the coil have the primary and secondary coils inside.. how can you tell that we are seeing the secondary waveform !??
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Great question, the waveform we are seeing is a representation of the magnetic activity associated with the coil’s operation. If you see my original video, I do a similar test with a coin and scope the primary ECM signal at the same time; you can then see which part of the pattern represents the secondary coil 👍. Hope that helps explain?
@hubercats 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing this idea; very nice. Can you share the model number of the relay? It seems that the sensed signal will depend on the number of turns in the coil and I can imagine that different relay models have a different number of turns... I plan to buy a relay and want to get a suitable relay. Thanks!
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
hubercats Hi, great to hear! The relay here is a ‘BMW TYCO GREEN 12V 5PIN RELAY 61368373700’. You will also find that different types of ignition coil will give different ‘strength’ signals; for example VW TSI coils give quite a large waveform with just a coin. Enjoy!
@hubercats 3 жыл бұрын
Mechanic Mindset : Thanks very much for sharing the relay part number. On a somewhat related subject, have you posted any videos that show DIY sensors for old style (non-COP) spark plug wires? I have a DSO Nano V3 pocket oscilloscope available but need a sensor. Also, since discovering your channel earlier today I’ve watched several more of your videos and have found them to be excellent. Thanks again!
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
hubercats I haven’t made one, but I did buy one really cheap. There is a link below to the kit I use 👍. Thanks for the feedback, more to come!
@del9936 3 жыл бұрын
Hi I think you need to check that relay as the pin configuration is marked incorrect ,terminal 30 and 86 are marked on your relay as incorrect , you have connected to pin 30 and 85 on a standard pin arrangement on a din standard pin arrangement for that type of relay ,where did you get that relay from I have never seen a relay of that type with that pin arrangement,can anyone confirm what they see cheers
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
del d Hi, someone else raised this same query. If you zoom you can see I have connected to 85 & 86 for this relay type. It is a Tyco/BMW relay and very common; I’ve got loads of them. I think this highlights that we should be careful when assuming relay terminal locations are standard across all relays. Could end up with incorrect diagnosis in the future! Thanks for watching and raising the query 👍
@spelunkerd Жыл бұрын
Oh, I see what you're talking about. Standard four-post relays across the pond have a rectangular shape and matching pairs diagonally across from each other, so you can insert those relays upside down with normal function either way. It's a clever design. In this example the relay cannot be inserted upside down because of the configuration and shape of the posts, so the problem is averted by design asymmetry. The post numbering is entirely conventional, 85 and 86 are coil control, 87 and 30 are on the switched side.
@fatahfadhel8830 2 жыл бұрын
Can i use another relay or just coil relay
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
It’s the coil that’s important for this to work 👍
@saibabupodala6297 3 жыл бұрын
It's good technic I have one doubt this time oscilloscope didn't use attenuater please my kindly request one video attenuater full explain
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, there was no need to use the attenuator for this test. I will make a video to explain more about attenuators and when they should be used. I think there are some videos where I use one 👍
@saibabupodala6297 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you sir, u r reply for my comment.
@steveo782812 3 жыл бұрын
Do you have to use an attenuator
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Steve M. I didn’t here but I suppose it depends on how strong the signal is; all coils are built slightly differently so approach with caution. These scopes are pretty robust and do take a certain amount of over voltage before giving up 👍
@glasser2819 2 жыл бұрын
brilliant... repurposing of relay as pickup coil 😷
@chekelley6861 3 жыл бұрын
When you first hooked up the relay to your leads, you had them hooked up to pin 30 and pin 85 (or 86). There is no connection to the coil on pin 30. That may explain the low waveform. Great idea tho!
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Che Kelley I went back and checked on a big screen. Deffo connected to 85 & 86. 30 can be seen with no connection. This is twin output relay; 2x T87 🧐. Cheers for checking!
@chekelley6861 3 жыл бұрын
You’re right. In America we use the Bosch relay that looks exactly like that. On the Bosch, the terminal marked 86 on yours is actually pin 30 which is the common. 85 and 86 are always opposite from one another. It’s like the one you have has 30 and 86 swapped 😂😂
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Che Kelley They like to keep things easy for us 😂😂🙄
@greywuuf 2 жыл бұрын
I was wondering when you would update and correct your previous video on relays ...when you identified the capacitor as a resistor. A resistor does not makes sense, should be a protection diode, a capacitor could be used (in the manner of a decoupling or filter cap)
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
Hi, 100% a resistor 👍. The main point is, it needs to be removed to get the best of this test. The resistor just ‘soaks’ up some of the spike, doesn’t eliminate/block it like a diode
@tonyfremont 3 жыл бұрын
Is that really a capacitor in there, I couldn't see well using my phone? I thought only resistors were used internally. I think most cheap relays found in US parts stores have nothing built in to suppress the voltage spike. I have used diodes in one-off projects to protect transistors and microcontrollers. I'm curious about a comparison of how each one looks on a scope, as compared to an unsuppressed relay.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Hey Tony, slip of the tongue (see pinned comment 😂). It is a resistor. See my other video ‘ECU Killer!’ 👍
@tonyfremont 3 жыл бұрын
@@MechanicMindset oh okay, at any rate, I'm thinking that a capacitor probably would suppress at least some of the spike. Using the relay coil to pick up the signal from the COP is pretty ingenious of you.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
@@tonyfremont Yeah I imagine it would. Probably more than a resistor which only reduces it, not eliminate. You should give it a go! Cheers, inspired by a colleague who showed me a similar test for another component 👍
@edwardvahlin569 2 жыл бұрын
The component is actually a diode. In this case it is called a flyback (sudden spike) diode.
@MechanicMindset 2 жыл бұрын
100% a resistor, I took it out and measured it. Some do have diodes though 👍
@albertinapeswa 3 жыл бұрын
Hi scarletts dad
@AutoDiagnosticsPK 4 ай бұрын
Hi Daren, Thank you very much, I could pick up ignition waveform with DIY relay based inductive pickup....I am glad that this idea worked well with me....here is the link for my capture.... waveform is not correct as I used cheap Hantek 6022BE with unpaid limited version of Android H-scope...but it worked well with Hantek own windows software kzfaq.info8aRQklOx4qQ?si=sNrigVugq6nkaUPW
@grzegorzkurdziel8023 3 жыл бұрын
very good job
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
Cheers! Will you try this?
@grzegorzkurdziel8023 3 жыл бұрын
yes i tried with a coin and relays both work fine.
@MechanicMindset 3 жыл бұрын
@@grzegorzkurdziel8023 Cool! I love that test 👍
@grzegorzkurdziel8023 3 жыл бұрын
I can borrow mine hantek 1008 If you would like to test
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