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Thanks to Bart Erhman for pointing out that people don't have to be lying and instead just be mistaken. It always bothers me when people say if it's not true, then the witnesses were lying. It's a silly binary.

It's enjoyable to listen to a civilized discussion, with no fake drama. This was an hour well spent.

I like Bart he’s very down to earth. And good challenging questions for him Alex. Great interview very informative

Hearing this interview right after having listened to your recent interview with Peter Hitchens, I can’t help but notice a difference between how two guests respond differently to your inquiries/pushback. I recall that your channel has focused on Peter Hitchens at least twice, the first time being his theological debate. And I recall that, during that debate, he opened by stating his doubt that the opposing speakers were taking the topic seriously. So naturally I immediately noticed when, during your interview with him, he quipped at the very start, “so far, so good”, as if he expected to be disappointed by your viewpoints.

I appreciate so much how genuinely you seek to understand and fairly represent views opposed to yours. I’m a Christian and have adored this channel for the last several years I have been a fan. These are incredibly compelling objections to Christianity. Keep up the good work!

I absolutely love this conversation and it merits at least a second listen The pertinent questions framed so simply and precisely and the crystal clear logic of Bart’s answers make hit such an informed and informative conversation. These two are wonderful and I can’t praise them enough. Two smart, honest scholars elucidating these issues so t gf at we too can see as clearly as possible. So helpful and so easy to follow.

39:41 Alex's mic has morphed into an enormous Phoenician beard.

"A claim isn't evidence. Evidence is when you try to substantiate a claim." "Historians don't make exceptions on religious grounds " Perfect. This is a fundamental principle of the scientific method. This is very applicable to the current rebirth of the alien/UAP craze.

Get Bart Ehrman’s course, “Did Jesus Call Himself God?”: www.bartehrman.com/godman See all of Dr. Ehrman’s courses here: www.bartehrman.com/alex

Love that these two connected - been following both for years.

Back in university, I took a course about the beliefs of the early church. The central question was about the consistency of their beliefs. Did they stay the same or do we see a change in what they believed? At the time, I remember looking at Bart Ehrman's views and not finding them too compelling. That probably had a lot to do with my current faith at the time and the biases of my Orthodox professor. He did give a nice balance of views on each topic we discussed in all our classes and provided a lot of opportunity for genuine discussion and disagreement, but his own passion for the topics was also impossible to ignore. Listening to this podcast now years later when my certainty in my faith has been completely shattered and rendered me entirely agnostic, I'm surprised how much I want to believe in the divinity of Jesus. I have my fair share of criticisms over what Christians claim to believe and their contradictions with reality or the way they live, but the incarnation was the most wonderful idea to me. When in contrast with Islam, I find a God who took on the human experience and shared in literal communion with us to be far more compelling than a God who is too far above us to be disgraced in such a manner. I have come to think a less fundamental view of the Bible is the only proper reading of it. People who see the God of the Old Testament as a a depiction of God's people wrestling with their understanding that becomes more and more clear and then revealed fully in The Word, that is Christ made sense....though no understanding of the Bible or Christianity has fulfilled the part of me that wonders why. Why are there so many disagreements from people genuinely seeking after Truth, not just in Christianity but in general? And with the same certainty I once had in personal experiences and beliefs, others are certain with experiences and beliefs that contradict my own. How can these disagreements be reconciled except to say God only wants some people to know Truth? But then how can you truly know that you have found it? I dont think it's possible for me to ever be sure again, but I think more and more, I am finding myself comfortable in what Dustin Kensrue of the band Thrice called "The Grey," and learning how to live with doubt in a world that demands you to be certain and so binary. It is facinating to me that people call it a relationship and yet so much of it is stories and second and third and fourthhand accounts of God. How much of God do you have to get right to be having a relationship with him? How much do you have to get right to even be "allowed" to communicate with him?

Thank you both for the informative content. I think this was an excellent interview/conversation. Alex had some great questions and respectfully challenged some of Dr. Ehrman's positions, but made sure to give Bart time to speak and thoroughly explain why he holds the views that he does. Keep up the great work!

I could seriously listen to Ehrman talk to hours. His voice is so peaceful and reassuring. And also he speaks straight up facts.

This was so needed. Alex I'm so grateful you did this for us all. Thanks!

We need more discussions with Ehrman!

Great back and forth conversation. One of the best interviews with Dr. Ehrman! Good work Alex!

As a Christian, I really appreciate this episode and I enjoyed every second of this conversation. It was very informative. I heard that Bart Ehrman was one of the best biblical scholars and hearing him talk on this episode blew my mind! I also loved the way in which Alex hosted this interview. He asked the right questions!

Really enjoyed this one. Bart has a new fan. Love the scholarly treatment of the gospels and the surrounding evidence for the claims within.

6:04 Did Jesus think the world was about to end? 12:50 Did Jesus claim he was God? 30:00 Did Jesus contradict trinitarianism? 32:39 Did John make up Jesus' divinity? 35:41 Are the birth narratives forged? 42:08 Mistakes and mistranslations in the New Testament 1:01:03 Responding to William Lane Craig on the resurrection 1:26:25 Who did Jesus claim to be? 1:29:40 Outro

Great job Alex. I love your new content and look forward to every episode!

At 10:10-ish: Really appreciated the distinction between interpreting something's original meaning and re-interpreting what it might mean to you personally in a modern context.

Great informative video.

Thanks to both of you. Great discussion. Are there similar discussions for Islam or Judiasm.

It’s amazing what you learn about Christianity outside of the church.

This is gold man! thank you so much both of you!

I just subscribed after hearing your discussion with Bart Ehmran about Christmass.

Great interview

I've watched a lot of Bart Ehrman interviews and podcasts and I think the interviewer in this instance is one of the best. Pointed and thoughtful questions and able to keep up with Bart's intellect.

Impressive. Very nice. Let's see Paul Allen saying no.

facial hair on point in this vid, alex. great content too ~

that was a very interesting discussion. i might have to take Ehrman up on his challenge to read the birth accounts in Matthew & Luke, and compare the 2 against each other

Thanks for the content!

I have to say that watching this through now is my second attempt at getting through it. I've been a reader of Bart for several years and, having learned his mind on many of these issue, when trying to watch this video before thought the conversation was overly contentious... another interview by someone who didn't really grasp his views. Since then I've familiarized myself with Alex's views and style and have discovered that I was quite wrong. I find this conversation invigorating and honest, two intelligent people taking each other to task, each from their own perspective, but not in a contentious way. Great work by both parties, each who are bringing with them their own audience who agree with each other on many key points, but have as rigorous conversation that highlights the nuances that different perspectives bring.

Hello ! request/suggestion (?) : downloadable (searchable) transcripts for your videos ??? I found this video to be very good/informative/useful. I would love to be able to quickly search for items appropriate for subsequent conversations on certain portions/history etc. ...Mr Ehrman mentnioned a roman historian I had not heard of ... he mentioned historical "mass hallucination" example etc

41:02 Bart seems to be taking his idea of the narrative more from the Christmas Carol “Little Drummer Boy” than from Matthew. The gospel account never describes the Wise Men as having gotten to Bethlehem immediately or even speedily. Bart is simply inserting an assumption that it happened quickly into the narrative when it is not actually in the text.

One of the best interviews of Bart! Thanks to Alex for being a great interviewer, and Bart for sharing from his awesome knowledge base.

This is one of Ehrman's best podcasts. Much credit is owed to Alex O'Conner, too, for facilitating the discussion better than most podcast hosts are capable of. Alex has a knack for steering the discussion by saying the right thing at the right time. I have never listened to Alex, before. But I am subscribing to his KZfaq channel since he is such an effective podcast host. Alex is as good of interviewer as Larry King was.

I really enjoy Bart Ehrman but I'd like to add a little bit to the discussion. The reason the gospels exhonerate Pilate is because Pilate represents Rome and the Christians want to show the Romans that they don't blame them, they blame the priestly heirarchy of the Jews for their Messiah's death.. They didn't want to become an anti-Rome cult in Rome's eyes. You can also see this in 'The Epistle of Paul to the Romans' in which you find verses that say that you must not oppose your leader because he was selected by Jehovah. Not something you see in any of his other letters. Another possible reason for the strange story of the godly impregnation of Mary is that Jesus is named 'the son of god' in many passages and the term 'son of god' is a common colloquialism for a king or messiah of Israel (Psalms 2) - see both David and Soloman. This went from a colloquialism to literal as the pagans tried to understand the whole 'son of god' thing.

Jesus asked a lot of questions. Query was one of His favorite teaching tools. One of the questions Jesus put to the disciples was “Who do you say that I am?” (Luke 9:20). This question drew out a response that is instructive to all of us. The context of Jesus’ question “Who do you say that I am?” is important: “Once when Jesus was praying in private and his disciples were with him, he asked them, ‘Who do the crowds say I am?’ “They replied, ‘Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, that one of the prophets of long ago has come back to life.’ “‘But what about you?’ he asked. ‘Who do you say I am?’ “Peter answered, ‘God’s Messiah’” (Luke 9:18-20). Parallel accounts are found in Matthew 16 and Mark 8. Matthew relates that Peter did more than just identify Jesus as the Christ; he also proclaimed Jesus’ divine nature: “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God” (Matthew 16:16). Jesus’ question “Who do you say I am?” was not a sign of ignorance; He knew all things, including what was on the disciples’ minds. The question was also not motivated by some type of self-conceit or vanity; Jesus did not preen, and He had no desire to fish for compliments. Rather, His question was aimed at provoking the disciples to consider their level of faith. The immediate results of His question make it clear why He asked them what He did. Jesus began the conversation by asking a related question: “Who do the crowds say I am?” (Luke 9:18). In response, the disciples related the various things they had heard: the opinions included several personages come back to life, pointing to the fact that the crowds viewed Jesus as someone special. But the crowds’ guesses were all wrong. So Jesus directs the question to the disciples themselves: “Who do you say that I am?” In other words, are you following the crowd? Are you sticking with the conventional wisdom about Me? Or do you have another, more insightful answer? What do you really think? Peter then speaks up. In answer to the question, Peter affirms his belief that Jesus was the long-awaited Messiah and, more than that, the Son of God. By this time, the disciples had seen many miracles, including the raising of a widow’s son in Nain, the calming of a storm, the casting out of many demons from a man in the Gerasenes, and the feeding of 5,000. The disciples knew that Jesus was more than a prophet; He was absolutely unique; He was, in fact, God in the flesh. In response to Peter’s declaration, Jesus expresses the blessedness of his faith: “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven” (Matthew 16:17). God, in His grace, had opened the disciples’ eyes to see Jesus for who He truly was. So Jesus asks the question “Who do you say that I am?” and He receives the correct (divinely inspired) response from Peter. This marks a turning point in Jesus’ teaching ministry with His disciples. Starting then, the Lord gives His disciples additional information, as shocking as it was for them to hear: “From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life” (Matthew 16:21). Jesus had refrained from telling His disciples about His death and resurrection until they had reached an important milestone: namely, that their faith had grown to the extent that they could express their conviction that Jesus was the Son of God. How the disciples handled the additional information of Jesus’ death would depend on who they believed Jesus to be. Knowing that He is the Son of God, they should be able to trust Him-even to the point of accepting His death (and resurrection) without being shaken. Unfortunately, the disciples had a hard time processing what Jesus was now telling them, as evidenced in Peter’s response (Matthew 16:22-23). Even having faith in Jesus as the divine Son of God, the disciples were thrown into confusion at the prediction of Jesus’ death and resurrection (see Mark 9:32). Jesus’ question “Who do you say that I am?” is a good example of one of His teaching methods. Asking a question demands engagement, promotes thinking, and draws out a considered response. Jesus’ question and subsequent teaching also illustrate the progressive nature of God’s revelation and our need for growing in faith. Throughout history, God has revealed His message gradually, starting in Genesis and continuing through the close of the canon. He did not reveal any more than mankind needed or was capable of receiving at any given time. Also, Jesus’ delay in introducing the subject of His death and resurrection suggests that the disciples’ faith needed to mature to the point that they could hear and understand. All of us are called to grow in our faith. There is always more to know of Christ. “Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity” (Hebrews 6:1). There is your answer God and son and Holy Spirit are one

I simply adore doctor Ehrman, he is so polite when he cuts through the shite

Dear Alex, I follow you on YT for quite a time. And I learned SO MUCH!!! from you. It changed my life, tbh. And I highly highly respect Dr. Ehrman. I've read almost all of his books, and they changed my life too. Through both of you I began to learn about critical thinking. So here, the two wonderful people who inspired me the most, are discussing. So great! Best wishes and a giant thank you from Germany!

Can you have Richard Carrier on next? That would be so incredibly lovely.

Thank you for asking challenging questions even to guests with whom you mostly agree. Makes for a much deeper conversation.

I have had this in my watch later for months and I am so glad I finally got around to it.

38:50 there is NO CONTRADICTION between Matthew and Luke. The "Wiseman" came about Two Years AFTER the birth, and they came to the Childs home. The sacrifice was a "Poor mans sacrifice". When the gifts arrived they had money for the trip to Egypt. John the Baptist spent his childhood hiding in the wilderness during that time also.

Phenomenal interview 👏 thank you both

Thanks for setting this up! IDK how Alex stays so composed all the time - amazing. I researched the legends of the apostle's puported deaths once. It was really hard to find the information on them. Not even sure I got good sources. At any rate, pretty sure the accounts were far later than the events. One was killed if I remember for stifling a ruler's sexual life (similar to the story of John the Baptist). Another basically volunteered to be put to death even though they could have left the area without recanting! But again, not sure of my sources

About the bit at around 1:15:00, it's interesting that Ehrman seemingly agrees to accept the 'post-resurrection group appearances' at face value when he's already described the two principles that would most historically explain them: 1) the gospel writers are taking from oral tradition within their respective communities and 2) stories naturally evolve over time as they are retold and transmitted. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assert that the post-resurrection group appearances, if they indeed did happen, were something more similar to visions, and, through oral tradition, became more and more physical and concrete until they were written down by the gospel writers as touching Jesus' hands and eating with him? Though of course, the fact that Paul was writing about a full 500 witnesses ~50 years before the gospel writers does throw a bit of a wrench in the hypothesis, but the fact that he gives no corroborating information or further details suggests that even _that_ was an oral tradition passed around in his community, right? Just overall, there's no reason we should take these writings at face value, and any historian knows this. Though, I do think Ehrman's alternative argument (where one must apply equivalent skepticism across all belief systems and miracle claims) is also pretty strong in refuting the 'uniqueness' of Christianity's resurrection miracle. I'm also curious as to why Ehrman believes none of the gospel writers knew Hebrew. It kinda came out of the blue and I haven't seen this view expanded anywhere. It is true that they exclusively quote from the LXX and mediate their understandings of scripture through it, but isn't it generally argued that Hebrew was not yet a dead language in Palestine at this time period? I've seen it asserted that Hebrew and Aramaic were both of similar importance and usage, and Palestine was bilingual. As a result, is it not plausible that even the Greek-speaking gospel writers would have most likely known Hebrew as well, even if they chose to read and write in Greek to perhaps cater to their Gentile audience (such that quoting from the LXX would have made it easier for Gentile Christian communities to study and corroborate scripture)? Or perhaps do we have information on where the gospels were written, and Ehrman believes the gospels originated from communities outside of Palestine, say for example Antioch, Ephesus, or Alexandria, where Hebrew would have been drowned out by the lingua franca. Perhaps in that way it is reasonable to assert that the gospel writers didn't know Hebrew despite being quite knowledgable or Judaism, or being Jewish themselves.

Surprised that the Gospel of Thomas is cited as a key source for interpretation, but no mention of the preterist perspective on Jesus's words about the end of the age. Would love to see an interview with a preterist such as Gary DeMar or Doug Wilson to round out this discussion.

Man, I wish we have honest scholar like Bart Ehrman for Islam and the Qur'an.

the discussion and topics were excellent. The reasons and justifications given by Bart Ehrman of course are terrific. My goal is to someday meet Dr. Bart Ehrman.

1:11:42 The most revealing segment in the whole talk. Not about the apostles, but about Bart himself.

I love Alex's new beard. He looks really grown up.

Beautiful, respectful conversation and very interesting. As an atheist/agnostic I very much enjoy this kind of conversation. You dont have to come to the same conclusion to enjoy speaking and having fun with someone on a topic.

Omg the beef between Bart Ehrman and William Lane Craig is PALPABLE. Would love to see them debate today!

James Tabor in a recent Easter week series shows that in the book of John it states that in the place of the crucifiction there was a garden and near the garden was a newly dug tomb tgat had not yet been used. And due to the soon coming beginning of the Passover Joseph wrapped tge body in linen and placed him in this nearby tomb as a matter of convenience. James makes the case that this wouldn't have been the permanent resting place but a temporary safe spot for the body until the 2 days of sabbath had passed. This being the situation, Joseph would have likely returned for the body early Sunday morning as soon as he would have been legally permitted, rather than wait until 12 hours later at sun rise. This would have led to an empty tomb when the ladies arrived much later at sun up.

Question: Couldn't the "prophets" Matthew is referring to when he say: " that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene," hint at an UNKNOWN prophet? According to Dr. Dan McClellan (if I remember correctly), we don't KNOW what Scriptures the Jews had and revered in the time of Jesus. Of course we do know SOME OF THEM, but there might have been others we are unaware of. Couldn't the quote from Matthew 2:23 be from such an unknown source?

What a brilliant interview flow! Alex you're doing so great with the questions! Thanks for this!

Very informative conversation. Thank you for both of you!

I love how some people didn't watch the video and just debate without knowing what's topic.

40:29 and it could be that one author thought it relevant to include the timeline of Mary going to Jerusalem for purification then returning to Nazareth while the other did not.

This is by far - THE BEST interview of both Bart and Alex I have ever seen. Two controlled civilized listening - and intune individuals. Im so glad you both took time for this - please do a follow-up.

Fantastic interview. Alex put aside his personal beliefs to challenge, to the best of his ability, the claims put before him.

I loved this, so informative.

Without faith it is impossible. For you.

Even at this age, Ehrman is so much better in dialogue with someone rather than over the phone or zoom. It's great to see him getting out and about to sit down with people - he sounds like he hasn't aged a day compared to some of the other stuff out there

Thank you for this interview! I love Bart Ehrman, I'm a huge fan of his. I've read almost all his books. They changed my life. Bart is like a logic machine!

Excellent discussion with an eminent , intelligent expert on the Bible. Congratulations to Alex for being factual and avoiding extreme (foolish) utterings as he did on other interviews (Dawkins). Alex at his best.

I was in the high school I remember me and my friend got together spread rumor purposely small town about 20,000 people who spread the rumor after a week somebody started telling us the rumors that was spread but the story is changed when it got back to us, yes, rumor can spread like a wildfire. I agree with professor.

Thanks for this excellent session Alex!

I appreciate that Alex is trying to advocate for Christian reasoning for the sake of argument in the latter part of the interview, but I'm confused as to what is compelling about reasoning that the gospel stories are true by first assuming the gospel stories are true - begging the question. Nor do I understand the repeated suggestion that a story saying something quite unusual makes the story somehow more plausible or credible. So much time was spent on these ideas. (Maybe showing the weakness of this reasoning was exactly the point. I don't know.)

I'm not religious or atheist, but I find this discussion to be delightful and fascinating. Thank you guys for filling my head with lots of new thoughts, and answers to old questions.

30:30 Alex, just so you are aware, that isn’t quite an accurate depiction of Trinitarianism. Trinitarianism does say that if you see the Son you see the Father, because all energies of the Son are energies of the Father. This is outlined in the Athanasian Creed. Properly understood, the verse gives no problems for Trinitarianism as defined in traditional Christianity

For a year after she died, my dad used to see my mother, from the corner of his eye, in her armchair. He himself believed that this was a mix of habit and wishful thinking. Not that she was resurrected. So a whole stack of folks claim to have seen Jesus BUT some of those, the ones that knew him best, didnt recognise him at all

Your guests are top notch. Hope you keep it up, Alex. And thx for doing these! Liked/upvoted (and now commented)

This just keeps going and I love it

I would like to hear about how Bart’s own religious beliefs function that would probably be very helpful for me

thank you so much for this interview with bart ehrman, very helpful in understanding the problem of the new testament texts

Alex, have you ever considered writing a book about religion? I'd buy it.

Joscha Bach. Did you ever contact him for an interview? It would be legendary

A debate about whether harry potter is a muggle or not.

One of the best interviews! You're asking the right questions Alex.

Insightful discussion. Civil and attentive by both men. Bart is truly a much needed thorn,not because his views are correct, rather his good objections that make an interesting thought.

1:08:00 regarding this portion of the conversation, the events in the gospels do align with this narrative that the Romans would generally leave the carcass on the crucifix. Reason being is that we know Joseph of Arimathea had to go to Pilate and beg for the body to be released from the "cross", and into his care. So these two narratives align quite well. I don't see any discrepancy here. Considering the geologic and astronomical events that happened at his moment of death, id say most people would indeed surrender the body out of fear.

Is there anything that can be directly attributed to Jesus or are all conversations centered around hearsay?

The point about Jesus saying your sins are forgiven and giving his disciples the authority to forgive sins was something I had never considered in that way.

This has been my favorite interview with Bart, and I've heard many previous hours. Fantastic.

With a open mind, and heart, ask the Creator to show one the truth, as one reads in the Bible, especially focusing on reading the Gospel of John, Mark, Luke, and the books of Acts, Roman's, Ephesians, first, and re-reading those books, 2-3 times over...one can glean mostly all one needs to know of what Jesus says about Himself, actually, in just reading John, over a few times, prayerfully, early on in one's pursuit of researching the truth of Jesus Christ.

Well done. Thanks.

I'm not 100% sure of what I did last week, let alone 20 years ago. Comparing shared experiences of the past with my family members there's always disagreements on details, behavior, chronology. Sometimes I remember things wrong or post-rationalise past actions to analyse and/or explain my present self even if back then perhaps it didn't play a big role or meant anything even taking into account that it may have meant and played a different role I remember today because I never shared what I felt with anyone or that I felt anything at all. So even if it's first hand testimony/account I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

That's been answered in Quran, surah Al Maidah (5):116 "And ˹on Judgement Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Allah?” He will answer, “Glory be to You! How could I ever say what I had no right to say? If I had said such a thing, You would have certainly known it. You know what is ˹hidden˺ within me, but I do not know what is within You. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Knower of all unseen."

This guy wasn't there nor knows anyone who's family members were. For him to be so matter of fact.

Great conversation! I love the little detail of having Ehrman's Heaven and Hell on the bookshelf between them.

I am currently watching a 12 hour video course on "The Historical Jesus" given by Dr. Ehrman. It is wonderful.

the intro goes so hard

I've learned so much from Ehrman over the years. Glad to see him on.

Jesus often said, he was the 'Son of God' and that he and the father were one. He also said that people would see him asscend to heaven and sit at the right hand of the father. John 10:33-35 ,says 'for good works we stone thee not; but for blasphemy and because that thou being a man, makest thyself god.,... Mark14:58-62. And the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ,the son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am....

Ehrman is the only person who doesn't make my eyes glaze over when they talk about Jeezus.

this was a great interview... it's refreshing to see such intelligent and honest answers on these topics