It's called King Kong and is on the Mother's album Uncle Meat released in 1969. Of course Lennon stole it, unknowingly maybe, but it is a Zappa song nevertheless.

Before I even watch the video, if this is about King Kong and Zappa, yes. Lennon yoinked it.

😂-as a musician myself every concert I have gone to since 1978. I always examined all the musicians paddles, guitars, amps drums, and so on rhythms how they change how they perform I take all that as a formula and make it my own. yes, you do have to steal from other musicians, and you make it your style your way ❤❤

The song is called King Kong. Lennon called it Jam Rag and claimed partial publishing for it as a jam when it is clearly a composed piece. King Kong had already been released on Zappa's Lumpy Gravy (1968) and Uncle Meat (1969) and it had been a staple of his sets prior to this. It was a signature tune, it would be like ripping off Imagine.

I got to believe Zappa on this one. Frank was always a no bullshit kind of guy.

It's well documented -- Zappa released his own version of the tape on the album Playground Psychotics, shortly before his death. He even got a measure of revenge by titling part of the jam "A Small Eternity With Yoko Ono". I'm surprised that you aren't mentioning that John was successfully sued for plagiarism by Chuck Berry's publisher.

And you are incorrect, Lennon is also known for possibly take chuck Berry's song when he wrote "Come Together". A song that Paul McCartney also acknowledges that Lennon "borrowed".

Paul McCartney said...."all musicians steal from somebody...great ones steal from everybody"

There is another line between Zappa and Lennon: 🎵 "Just because the sun wants a place in the sky - no reason to assume, I wouldn't give her a try.🎵" Dinah moe hum. Lennon used that too on sometimes in NYC.

All You Need Is Love used the “G - D - Em” sequence, also: Instant Karma, plus: Nobody Told Me. Lennon plagiarized himself on 3 of his biggest hits..

My guess... King Kong is kind of abstract, in a jazz sort of way. That's not Lennon's wheelhouse musically. He probably didn't know it was even a song, just a jam. In which case, he or someone on his production team, decided to nab it. And then... maybe... John was too embarrassed to own up to the mistake. Zappa could be intimidating.

Goes to Character. I can hear Yucko badgering John to do it.

I just noticed that the Playboy interview was in the mag that had Barbara Bach on the cover... Ringo's wife

Fact-Check ✅ Jamrag credited to Lennon on his '72 album sometime in NYC, is actually a Frank Zappa composition named King Kong ✅ King Kong was first performed by the mothers in 1966 ✅ a fragment of the main melody appears on side 2 of Lumpy Gravy ✅ the classic version of King Kong, a hybrid of live & studio jams, appeared on side 4 of Uncle Meat ✅ King Kong was the title track of a 1969 Jon Luc Ponty album of Zappa covers ✅ King Kong was the song Frank Zappa & the mothers were playing when some stupid with a flare gun set the Montreux Casino on fire, a notorious incident immortalized in Deep Purple's Smoke on the Water ✅ John Lennon stole the song from Zappa, case closed, and that's why you'll never get a sometime in NYC boxset, cause even in death, no musician is more litigious than Zappa....

"Happy Xmas/ War is Over" is ripped directly from a song called "Stewball", which is technically "traditional", so I suppose anyone can borrow. But the same song was also pretty similar to "I Love How You Love Me" by Barry Mann and Larry Kolber.

What are we talking about here? $5000, $10,000 over the 95 years of copyright? Not a huge deal (or a huge seller as as far as record sales go), but I do agree with Zappa, it is disappointing.

There is another, "You Can't Catch Me" and John's "Come Together"

Both Lennon and Harrison were guilty of this sort of thing. Harrison got publicly and legally called out for 'borrowing' the melody from Ronnie Mack's song 'He's So Fine' by the Chiffons, for 'My Sweet Lord'. He claimed that he'd subconsciously plagiarized the melody. Believe what you like, but while I admired George, I think that was a blatant porky, as the Brits would say. Lennon, to the best of my knowledge, never credited the melody for his xmas song 'And So This Is Christmas', which he lifted from a time honored song called 'Stewball'. At this late date, none of this really matters much, but as a songwriter I've always thought that it extremely tacky that a songwriting powerhouse like the Beatles would be that callous.

watch the too-good-to-be-true documentary "John Lennon's Jukebox" where Lennon freely explains where many of his musical ideas came from. He also mentions that he could neither read or write music which was awkward when his son asked him about Beatles songs.

That is not John Lennon. It his his body double who took his place in 1966, after Paul McCartney died. John couldn’t keep on going and was replaced as well.

The song really sucks! Why on Earth would John steal it❓If he's going to steal a song, make it a Great one 🤣 I think John and Yoko didn't think much of the song. They probably thought Frank gave them the song to do what they want. That's what they did, they probably didn't want to delete the song so they tried improving on it and renaming.. I would of just delete! 😍

That’s why we have law courts , yet Zapper never went to court to sue Lennon ask yourself why

John Lennon, like it or not, was avant gard but essentially mainstream. I think he felt that he needed to be more out on the edge (obtuse) musically. After all, no one could argue that his personality was not out on the edge. Frank Zappa was a free ride to that destination.

Everybody in this room is wearing an uniform , so don't kid yourself.

What? As if John would have to steal a song FFS? ❤️❤️❤️❤️

I get the impression that Lennon and to some extent the other Beatles had a slippery attitude about lifting music from those who influenced them. Lennon seemed to have no problem admitting to "nicking" tunes here and there, and seemed to feel it was an homage to those he took from. I also don't think Lennon respected or thought much about musical literacy, as he only ever seemed to talk about his lyrical content. That is the polar opposite of Zappa, who seemed to know his lyrics were childish and terrible, and didn't care. Zappa only cared about the musical literary aspects of his compositions. I imagine Lennon would have issued a dismissive apology at some point, had he been really aware of how Zappa felt about it. But I don't think he saw such things as very important. I don't think Lennon was being intentionally malicious, but my attitude sides with Zappa.

Lennon certainly stole the misic for Merry Christmas (War is Over).

If you are called "professor", you must know the facts 🙂 This is perfirmance of Frank Zappa and the Mothers if Invention of song King Kong. John and Yoko were only the guests who took the recording with the permition of Frank Zappa for their album, but they credited themselves not Frank. And it is clearly under the law. Frank was nice guy who dud not sue them although he clearly could. Yoko ruined that song(although I don't like it 😂, but like Zappa's work) with her screaming without purpose

i truly liked this video

Agents and contracts. I think you are warm there. Seeing Phil Specter attached to it is a dead give away. John's publishing rights were fair game at the time, and the big game hunters were sniping from the blinds. John and Yoko were under the gun to publish and establish themselves with any material they could claim as performance art (remember, that was Yoko's genre originally) John was in not signed to anyone (so he thought) and was attempting to launch John & Yoko projects

I thought that sometime in NYC is the worst record in his career

Lennon stole it

A stuff-up I believe. Zappa was supposed to get a credit for Jamrag while Scumbag which had lyrics - albeit not many! - would be just Lennon-Ono, but they got it the wrong way round on the record. John probably thought Jamrag was just that, an improvised jam. He wouldn't have known anything about King Kong. Getting a credit on a solo-Beatle's release - which he got for Scumbag - would mean significant royalties for Zappa. He should have been grateful and just shut up.

It’s true… Ihave both albums and the liner notes say it all…

I would believe that it was John’s agent or whoever was handling their music that was responsible for that because they are the most unethical people in the business feeding off the musicians and artists and owning them…???

Blatantly obvious 🤷‍♂️

I was expecting your take on it.

Everyone steals from everyone, if you haven’t noticed.

Of course Lennon ripped off Zappa and knew what they were doing.

John thought it was just a jam, he didn't know it was already one of Frank's songs. It's not like it was a hit , but I can see Frank getting mad about it.

Lennon didn't steal a song, because all that I can hear in Jamrag is a lot of noise.

John should have been in MASH! Although he probably wouldn't have been anyway.

Hmm, interesting choice of (changed) title. Every boy in Liverpool who grew up in the 50's/60's knows what a jamrag is.

Yeah I'm a huge Beatles fan, but I do believe Frank Zappa

Zappa's name is listed several.places in and on Sometime in NYC. The album lists silly twists of musicians names who played on the tracks and the names of the other bands involved in the recordings including Frank and The Mothers of Invention. Produced by Phil Spector. Not convinced by the narrator's conclusion that John claimed authorship. No showing that John did the credits. More likely Spector did so, so he could take a cut of royalties. Frank doesn't seem too upset about it. Just "slightly disappointed." The narrator makes a mountain out of a molehill. Frank does say there was an agreement about use that favored both sides. More disappointing is this slanted rehash of a minute of a Frank interview taken out of context.

Of course, just like they came to the USA as nice boys to grab the praise against groups like the Mothers or the Turtles. Music is THE best and the Beatles don't make music, falling into Pop by chance. Who says Pop says money taken from the pockets of listeners.

I've postedthis before and I'll post it again: This is the doings of Alan Klein who was John's manager.

Of course he did. It didn't really do him any good though and Zappa was only mildly bemused by Lennon's actions.

Lennon was a well known plagiarist although he justified it with the entitlement of an 'artist'. He was a bit fast and loose and had issues with impulse control and self-awareness. A real piece of work. Pop Hero. Smh.

3 minutes in, im bored, i still dont know anything about the song that was supposed to be stolen and im moving on...

John popularity got to his head ! Sadly that is what killed the beatle , early i started to dislike him, but he did not deserved his end! Sad,,,,

He certainly robbed "And so this Christmas" from the old irish song The Plains of Kildare. This was first robbed as Skewball then robbed by Lennon.

Deport Yoko Ono now!

Happy Christmas War is Over & Folk song "stewball"..............same song. Look on youtube for Peter Paul and Mary singing STEWBALL

I'll bet money John's mother convinced him it was their recording because when they perform and record a song, it's theirs, John not wanting to upset his mother would just take a pill and go along.

Yes

Both frank and john should hav been allowed to live longer ,its possible yoko did it .well then its settled then .give peace a chance.

If that was true, why didnt he sue John?

Who are The Brain Police

Oh leave Len alone, cat's dead. It's not stealing it's fucked up relations; Frank looked down on him. Len got him back. Surely didn't need the $ . He was pissed! Len was a bit crazy, he may have gaffed or been stoned and not understood Z's ' deal.' who knows or cared. Oh, Zap does. And his grubby kids.

oh really! this is obviously clickbait. This song might be important to Zappa, but it's not important to anyone else. It's a rag , a few chord changes they improvised in a throw away b album that is not recorded in the studio but live. John would not verbally take credit to it in a million years. it's a none issue , it's not an important track . On the other hand IMAGINE was probably given to lennon and wasn't written by him - now that's an important track. But it will never be divulged anywhere . it's what's called conspiracy theory

Desperate. That's why I said they overrated John .

I blame Yoko

You should know all about this topic. Maybe create your own slant instead of ripping off Professor of Rock.

I don't blame Frank for letting it go. I mean the recording was truly awful because of all the silly screeching and wailing noises on it.

That's pretty vague...both parties are able to use the track for their purposes. It's a very hurdy gurdy kind of hippie ideal. If you take it literally, you can do any damned thing you want with it. No disrespect to Zappa, but it seems kind of odd to release tapes under that broad of terms. I'm a HUGE Lennon fan, but even McCartney had to call him out when he lifted "You Can't Catch Me" by Chuck Berry and rewrote it as "Come Together.". I mean as the intro to this very well done video shows, the guy has issues and he came by the honestly from the age of 3.

what song is it geez

The song was King Kong

A world reknowned artist with a catalogue like Johns Im sure had his fare share of others infringing on his copy rights. At some point, being a watch dog distracts you from your flow, so it makes sense to me that with all his money & fame, he would just let it slide. If he did that enough, I'm sure it would sometimes blurr the lines both ways. especially with all the jamming John did with other artists. Who would'nt want to jam with John. Secondly, some one mentioned Zappa wasn't known for his lyrics, but he was to some degree for his instrimental. That said, writers are like sponges for music. They save notes for anything that might ring a bell, catch phrases, riffs, melodies,what ever. One song might be an amalgamation from decades of notes. Bonnie Raitte & Carly Simon both discussed this in response to their song writing. Raitte would keep a sack of cassettes that thousands of people had sent her on the floor of her backseat in her car. Every now & then she'd pull one out & listen while driving. Some might stick, untill one day while jamming it would come out in a jam. Carly would jot a phrase & sometimes a decade or more later another phrase would remind her of it & she check the notes & combine them. Words, phrases, riffs & melodies are like peaces of puzzes till one they you realize this piece fits with that one, & it begins to look like something.

It’s pronounced Some TIME in New York City, like spending some time there.

Did anyone actually like that song?

Most definitely stolen. Listen to 20 seconds of the original: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rJeKlNOH1t7HpZs.html Then listen to the live Lennon/Ono track: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aqh0g8ei2rXUnp8.html

I love the beatles but they were influenced by a huge amount of music as a huge amount of music was influenced by them they wrote a song specifically about it ha ha . And paying the tax man 😂

Zappa used the name King Kong without proper permission from Kong. Where's the outrage? At least Lennon came up with a better song title.

Yoko mooched anything not nailed down.

I think it was Bob Dylan who said everyone does it! Right after Joan who used to tour with him told either in a book or interview he was doing a little bit of using others.

Jamrag is NOT a song, it is a demonic display of Yoko's inner demonic spirit and insanity. Under a Jamrag video, someone wrote the following (which I think has a lot of merit) - "Lennon and Ono took credit for "writing" the song, which Zappa wrote, to save Zappa the embarrassment of anyone listening to her ridiculous screams!" by Kevin-ib4gv

I think John was still young enough to make bad decisions at that point and this was one of them. He should have known better.

Unfortunately both songs were mindless drivel; a cacophony of rambling noise and pure shit.

That is not a song. It's a jam. It has random lyrics. Jam, Rag. Scum Bag. They are garbage anyway. Why would anyone want to claim them in the first place, let alone put them on an album?

I thought that because John wrote Imagine that he should be put on a pedestal and revered for eternity. Seems that he might not be deserving of such status.

Yeah, John probably did. The well was running dry after he left the Beatles. I mean, he did include Ono in his concerts.

Jam Rag sucked.

Who cares ?? Just enjoy the music of a genius

D

The 'song' was so bad I would think that anyone would deny they wrote it rather than attempt to claim it as their own.

King kong was written by zappa

For all the hype and hoopla, Frank Zappa never wrote one piece of music that was remotely memorable. John wrote dozens.

Wouldn't shock me; according to Tom Wolfe (author of "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test", a chronicle of Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters' hallucinogenic trips across America) the "Fab Four" snubbed the invitation to hang out with the Pranksters and their "house band", The Grateful Dead. Strangely, MYSTERIOUSLY you might even say, after learning of the Pranksters and their psychedelic bus, in a totally unrelated fit of creative genius, we got "Magical Mystery Tour". A literally unbelievable coincidence, I'm afraid. 😮‍💨 Thems the breaks though, there's no short list of artists and musicians whose talent obscured their decidedly less appealing personalities.

It's a terrible crap album, not worth fighting over.

Come Together vs You Can't Catch me (Chuck Berry) and Happy Christmas (War is Over) vs Stewball (a standard from the 18th century) are two more examples of plagiarism.

TO PUT ZAPPA AN LENNON IN THE SAME SENTENCE IS A MAJOR INSULT

Zappa sucks...

Who cares? There both dead.

Another yt video that takes way too long to get to the point...i'm out.

The Beatles didn't even write their own music Boy band Social engineering

bull

Never liked Lennon