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John saw this great wonder in heaven, “…an enormous red dragon…His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth…the great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him”

For those new here. Dr Heiser is a scholar and received a PhD in Semitic languages and the Hebrew Bible. He specializes in linguistics and near eastern texts. He has opened my eyes to reading the bible through the lens of the authors. Also how people during the first century would read the text completely different then how we do. Everyone has an opinion, and we must stay firm in the word to truly understand it. God Bless!

While there is no verse that says "a third of the angels fell from heaven," some verses, when put together, lead us to that conclusion. Sometime after their creation, and most certainly after the sixth day when everything was declared “very good” (Genesis 1:31), Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven. “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” (Isaiah 14:12). Jesus said, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18), and in the book of the Revelation Satan is seen as “a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth” (Revelation 9:1). We are also told that one third of an “innumerable company of angels” (Hebrews 12:22) chose to rebel with him. John saw this great wonder in heaven, “…an enormous red dragon…His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth…the great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him” (Revelation 12:3-9). Since Satan is referred to as a star which fell or was cast down to earth, and Revelation 12:4 says a third of the stars were cast out with him, then the conclusion is that the stars in Revelation 12 refer to fallen angels, fully one third of the heavenly host. If the one-third number is in fact accurate, what assurance that is! Two thirds of the angels are still on God’s side, and for followers of Christ, they are on our side as well.

Actually when you read the entire chapter of Revelation 12 you find that it doesn't appear to be in chronological order. Verse 4 says "And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to earth. and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." Clearly the dragon taking a third part of the stars of heaven and being cast to the earth, happened before he stood before the woman. How much before? it doesn't say. But it appears to be a reference to Luke 10:18 where Jesus said he beheld Satan like lightning fall from heaven. Which would make it before the creation of the universe. The identity of the dragon is revealed in Rev 12:9 which once again says the Dragon was cast out, then identifies him as that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him." Once again it seems to indicate that the war in heaven and the casting out of the Devil and his angels (the third part of the stars of heaven) refers to the initial rebellion of the Devil and his expulsion from heaven before the foundation of the world. Then you go to verse 13 and it literally says "And when the Dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.' Clearly, the persecution of the woman wasn't the cause of the war in heaven. Now who the woman was is debatable. it could refer to Eve, Israel or directly to Mary, or it could refer to all three. You cannot dismiss the fact that Satan took a third part of the angels based on this chapter.

For everybody who is pulling the “heresy” card and arguing in the comments, you chose to engage with one 5 minute video of Heiser’s…read his books! Unseen Realm is incredibly in depth and provides very solid foundation for this point of view. Keep an open mind, be willing to have the Holy Spirit teach you new things. Nobody’s saying you’ll agree with it in the end, but maybe dig a little deeper before you start plastering someone for their belief based on an area of expertise that they’ve spent the better part of 40 years studying. Just cheerfully engage before you call “blasphemer” A great reference for this is Dr. Sean McDowell, he has a thriving KZfaq channel where he interviews atheists, progressive pastors, and others in an attempt to engage in helpful conversation, as well as engaging with specialists in a diverse area of biblical knowledge. If we aren’t willing to approach these situations with humility, we are only going to continue to propitiate the assumption the Christians are judgmental bigots. Just take the time to engage with a cheerful heart

I do respect Mr Heiser at times but I must conclude that this video is more about word play than interpretation. It is clearly and infatically referenced to mean 1/3 of the angels indeed fell with satan. Period!

Surely the third of the stars refer to the Angel's who rebelled with satan and were cast out to the earth?

What do you mean you don't know that angels are stars? "Let's just say it for the sake of context." YOU just showed yourself to be a false teacher or at the least ignorant of scripture, when it gives the literal meaning right there in the text without even searching further than the book you say you are studying. Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.

Jesus said He saw satan fall to earth like lightening. Enough for me.

I respectfully disagree with your assertion of Revelations 12:4.

I wonder how someone who casually reads the Bible doesn’t read that in revelation

If things like this challenge your worldview, then be a Berean and search it and find out if the things being taught are so. Challenging one's worldview is important because we all have blindspots. We need iron to sharpen iron. There are many doctrines thay are taught in contemporary Christianity that were never considered doctrine by the Reformers, early church, the apostles, or the propehets. We need people like Dr. Heiser to challenge us. We are all far to comfortable in our theological echo chambers many times. Thank you Dr. Heiser for this. Praying for your health and well-being.

Yes!! “ Stars “, are Angels !!! Stop LYING AND CONFUSING THE UNREAD !!!!!!!!!!

I was intrigued by your work Mr. Heiser, but after watching a few of your videos, I am finding that you like to play games with technicalities. While this might be enough to get some people to go "wow", to those who take any time to examine some of your content, it is apparent you are not telling the whole story. I will give benefit of the doubt and watch a few more of your videos, but unless you are cutting out other parts of your lecture, you are not doing anyone in that crowd any favors by pretending we do not have the story of the watchers. You know full well what they are referencing in the bible, but act like there is nothing to it anywhere to back it up.

Yea there is, one third of the angels were cast out of Heaven, stop pretending to understand, man pretends to understand everything when he knows nothing.

I always thought the war in heaven between the angels occurred regarding God revealing, to the angels, His plan in part, to create human beings and to give us a place of authority above the angels. I could see this not sitting well with some angels who, at their core, valued their position more than their relationship with God. I can imagine there being a great amount of resentment arising within their hearts, especially seeing humans lacking in so many ways, but necessarily so in order to show the true glory of God's love, mercy, and redemptive power. I could see God revealing quite a bit of His plan to the angels knowing that many would react in this way in turn becoming tools to play a role in the over-arching plan. Angels at this point had their time frame of decision and this time frame may have lasted a very long time. I am sure all angels were tempted at this point and felt the pull of pride and envy and anger etc. Many allowed God to work within them to overcome while others struggled and failed and gave into these evil notions and becoming a sad, twisted being of iniquity apart from God. In God's perfect plan God in turn has used them and continues to use them to shape the destiny of His Church and humans individually to reach our fullest potential in Christ.

I beg to differ. Revelation 12:9: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." If you back up a few verses: Revelation 12:3,4: "...behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth..." False teachers will have no excuse when the day of the Lord's wrath comes. Stop perverting the truth of the Bible.

Doesn't the book of Enoch have angels sinning? or is this specifically only looking through the lens of of what is considered cannon to the church?

Jesus clearly thinks there are angels who sinned before His ascension.Matthew 25:41 (CSB) “Then he will also say to those on the left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!

Revelation 12:9 “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”

I wish that he touched the book of Enoch.

These videos are too short lol. I want to keep listening. Thanks for this.

If angels started sinning in Gen. 6, who deceived Eve and was thus judged? If man was casted out of Eden, what happened to Satan and his company of rebels? Stay in the same abode? The Bible, even Jesus Himself, clearly stated that he became the ruler or prince of this world. Why and when that happened? A grain of yeast will defile the whole reading of what angels are and how they operate. Let us be mindful of that.

So many ppl in the comments have great discernment & I'm enjoying reading them. It fills me w/ hope. We are one in The Holy Spirit. And thru Him we expose the liars/deceivers. Yah Bless you all! 😁❤

A lot of negative comments here stem from the fact that this clip is too short and cuts off before he makes his point.

Then who are the Sons of God who interbred with women if not angels?

We learn lots of things about the Old Testament from the new testament which aren't expressly mentioned in the Old Testament

I would like to ask Michael what did satan take a third of? Actual stars? What was the third mentioned in Rev 12?

Doctor Heiser! I'm on my fourth book of yours, Angels. I read Demons, Supernatural, and the Unseen Realm. I love it. I look at the Bible very differently now. Question what are the 1/3rd of the stars referring to in Revelation?

You guys misjudged Dr. Heiser so quickly. He mentions that the phrase "satan takes a third of the angels with him" is not referred exclusively in the Old Testament. The phrase is referred to only in the Revelation. Meaning, spiritual warfare is still going on because the forces are still here. I repeat, he never denied that it happened, it just wasn't written in the Old Testament.

When discerning the truth in the bible, the context and style of writing is important in interpretation. So the logic in this scenario would be as follows. Since Satan is referred to as a star which fell or was cast down to earth, and Revelation 12:4 says a third of the stars were cast out with him, then the conclusion is that the stars in Revelation 12 refer to fallen angels, fully one third of the heavenly host. If the one-third number is in fact accurate, what assurance that is! Two thirds of the angels are still on God’s side, and for followers of Christ, they are on our side as well. The number "one third" may not be explicit but there is also implicit truth.

I've have had questions answered and learned more about the Bible and God since I first started reading his books and listening to his Podcast and on youtube in 2014 than I had my whole life, now 55 years old going to Church since a child with my parents.

Most times our searching learned peoples dissertations on the Bible helps us know what not to believe. Matt, 7:13-15

What I've understood was the 200 angels that made a pact to take the daughters of men to marry. Except it doesn't speak of it very much in the Bible except for Gen 6. There is another place , I'm not a scholar , it talks about the angels that left their first estate. Then you have where Satan fell speaking of the dragon whose tail took 1/3 of the stars. Enoch speaks of it very much but its not a part of the canon. I'd like to hear the whole message that Dr. Heiser is giving here because it really left me hanging when it cut off. If there is a full video of this please let me know the title so I can watch it. I want to know all about these things because I really am more or less ignorant of it for the most part.

The more I listen to Heiser the more I realize His intellect blinds him from biblical truth and tip toes around controversial issues. God calls us to have child like faith and the intellectuals like Heiser, NT Wright etc complicate simple texts.

Angels ARE symbolized as stars a couple times- Job 38:7, Revelation 1:20, Isaiah 14:12 references Hasatan himself.... If a ‘third of the stars’ isn’t about fallen angels, what is it talking about?

Correction! The stars are the angels. Rightly divide the scriptures. Job 38: [4] Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? [6] Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; [7] When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? Revelation 1: [20] The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Revelation 12: [3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. [4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 20: [1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

If that's the case, then all angels that sinned should be bound in everlasting chains. But we don't see that do we? That's because, the unbound angels did not do the sin in Gen 6 but rebelled along with Lucifer in the beginning. These are the ones that have been marked for the judgement day and the burning lake of fire.

You are being very selective of information given. Enoch clearly states star are angels. You know very well, that Enoch is scripture.

I was intrigued with your narrative but wanted you to finish the explanation of the war in heaven after the birth of the messiah

Even though many may not agree with this because of modern interpretations, especially from Christian movies and television series like the Superbook and others for both kids and adults, I do hope they would read books especially from Heiser and from other serious but honestt scholars or teachers in order to correct mistakes. People shouldn't be afraid of corrections if Christ called us to let go of our old ideas and stick to truer concept. Thanks for your videos!

With respect, the context is not the Ascension, but the great tribulation for 1,260 for Israel - the woman. It's during the great tribulation that Satan and his angels are no longer allowed access to the throne room. Until the great tribulation, Satan can appear with the other sons of God and accuse the brethren, immediately before the great tribulation, they're thrown down and not allowed back up. It's at this very same point the false prophet who brings down fire from heaven appears. And at this point Satan's wrath goes 100% because his time is short.

Mike, I agree that the common belief in the devil taking 1/3 of the angels down is based on a gross assumption and faulty logic. You seem to be saying that since Gen 6 is the only verse that tells of angels sinning, that this must be when angels fell. But that answer doesn't explain the existence of evil (through the serpent) in the garden of Eden--before the angels sinned in Genesis 6. Ezekiel 28 hints at the reasons for the devil's downfall, which I believe happened in an age before Adam. I've heard you discount this possibility before, but I can't see another explanation for the pre-existence of the fallen devil before God put Adam in the garden.

the 1/3 of that stars that are pulled down happens BEFORE the woman gives birth to the child in Revelation 12.

Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" I realize the name Lucifer is a Catholic Church construct. But Isaiah is referring to the fall of Satan to shame a mortal King. Therefore the Fall of Satan occurs in scripture much before living Jesus's time. Job 1:6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them." Once again referring to the Fall in the OT. Luke 10:18 "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven". Jesus is saying he has already seen Satan Fall. Before his earthly time.

If you assume that the position of satan and his angels changed only once, then you may miss the positional change of Christ and man also. The position of satan, man and the Word changed more than once. Man’s position changed at least twice, out of Eden and fallen, and risen with Christ as a new man/creature. The disciples were in a different position walking in discipleship with Christ and given His authority. When the Word became flesh He was lower than the angels, then restored to the glory of Father and ascended till the time of restitution of all things...

This is also like many who say lucifer isnt the devil when pagans themselves will tell you he is the devil etc. Its all a figurative dance of shadows and intrepretation. Most importantly have a relationship with the Holy Spirit and "He will teach you all things" John 14.26.

The book of Enoch does though

I'm scrupulous about teachers and Heiser is one of the ones I will watch. This is probably the only majorly disappointing disagreement that he and I have. I see there are others that feel the same way. But we are all human and can't put anybody on a pedestal. I also see that if this video were longer it might be explained...? Interesting though in context... A third of the Angels may have rebelled during the war and then cast down and we have truly been in the end times ever since and possibly coming up to the tribulation. I realize this all depends on how people interpret scripture and there are a lot of different ideas out there, but for many reasons listening to this for the fifth time makes a few things fit. Thank you Michael for everything you do.

Revelation 12 is the only place you need. That is where it is revealed.

So he wants us to believe since angels and a third arent found in text sinning that satan fell down by himself ? And there arent any demons but there getting married thats when they sin ? Logic is off

Jesus Grace is Enough ✝️

IMO the font y'all been using in these KZfaq thumbnails is SUPER hard to read. Two outlines around small font looks like a jumbled mess of lines. Love the content though. Thanks Dr. Heiser

And Dr. Heiser, there isn't a single passage in the Bible that calls the church the New Israel. I really find it's sad that many pastors or teachers teach that when the Disciples of Jesus never did.

Kjv Revelation 12 you cant believe every teaching or everything someone says . According to the scriptures they where kicked out.

Might Peter have been referring to the (admittedly non-canonical) First Book of Enoch?

Michel Heiser has convinced himself that what he believes.... is the one truth......stars ARE referred to as angels, many times.

The foundation was built with the outcome as the blueprint retroactively placing events into motion satisfying the desired victory. Phophesy has to be understood from the position of it bring revealed already depending on that exact foundation. Human temporal chronographic templates must formulate backwards since the end was constructed with the beginning in mind. You don't know when the battle in heaven takes place. But we do know when the argument did. And that generates disobedience followed by judgement. It's incidental to the outcome the count of opposing forces in the battle. And so is this reasoning presented about fallen angels.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Nobody seems to even bother to watch the video, which is obvious from the responses here.

The lack in understanding and teaching Revelations is just mind blowing. This is deliberately done to deceive people who do not study their own bibles, and would go to church and believe every nonsense as real and just.

This is interesting why do we always assume the war in heaven HAPPENED already and hasn't been an on going war since creation? 1st the Angels tried to make their own humans (they were chained)… the Old Serpent is still fighting against God and Angels are still falling from Heaven. I don't think this is just a war for humans. Angels too are being tested just as we are to see who will remain with God. I always felt that angels seem really timid to come down here as if they can still fall from grace, be tempted like their brethren in Genesis. Angels always come and go quickly and are to the point … like they aren't trying to linger more than they need.

What about the book of Enoch it says it in there

Wait... was this a teaching exercise to get your viewers to search the scriptures for the truth? Bravo. It made me look again and I now am sure that Satan didn't fall alone. Yep... I'm not going to tell you why I believe that but I'm going to continue understanding that fallen angelology just as my father taught me. Good teaching technique.

It's been a while, and my memory is not as good as it used to be--who am I lying, it was never that good to begin with, but I believe that statement, that Lucifer took a third of the angels with him is derived from Milton's Paradise Lost, and not the Bible, but many believe it was given the subject matter--much the same with Dante's inferno's depiction of hell, that many claim is Biblical, when that description comes from the Dante's Inferno. Joshua 24:15 John 8:31-32 & 14:6 Psalms 28:7 Strength and Honor!

I've always been doubtful about that part - leading mainstream Christianity to believe that there were 2 events...that "primeval rebellion" and the Watchers at Hermon. Thank you Dr. Heiser. Rest well and enjoy your well-earned salvation at the foot of our Lord and King, Jesus...there in Heaven. I hope to meet you someday there and have discussions with you. 😅

Teachers have typically concluded that Rev 12:1-5 is jumping around in history describing different events (satan's rebellion, Jesus' birth, Jesus' ascension & the end times) because they see no other logical interpretation. Think about it though, this whole passage (chapters 12-16) is only describing the end times, we only put 12:1-5 in the past because we can't see how they could fit into the end times. The context of Rev 12:1-5 is not jumping back and forth through time from Jesus' birth to satan's rebellion to the birth of Jesus (again) to Jesus' ascension then back to the end times. The woman clothed with the sun represents the end time redeemed Israel or The Bride of Christ which includes all those gentiles grafted in to Israel (Eph 2:11-19, Rom 11:19). No, this is not replacement theology - God will keep all His literal promises & covenants to natural Israel but the gentiles are grafted into those covenants in Christ. Rev 12 is talking about this final Israel unified in Yeshua. I'm not saying "All of Israel is saved" at this point. The sun represents being clothed with the glory of Christ (Rev 1:16, Mal 4:2) and the moon under her feet represents living above the lesser light of the Law (Col 2:16-17). So who is the Rev 12 male child that the woman gives birth to? It is a "type" or picture of those who overcome in Christ and will rule with Christ on His throne: Rev 2:26 - The one who overcomes, and the one who keeps My deeds until the end, I will give him authority over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are shattered, as I also have received authority from My Father. Rev 3:21 - The one who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne. Note that Rev 2:26 uses the exact same language "rule all the nations with a rod of iron" for the overcomers as Rev 12:5 does for the male child. Why is it a male child? Because it's talking about a mature son: Eph 4:13 - until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. Why are these overcomers being caught up to God's throne? To be given their final assignment to return to the earth and prepare the way for Christ's return. I'm not saying that the Bride is not also part of these "overcomers", my point is that Rev 12 is highlighting that the remnant bride at that point in the End Times gives birth to more overcomers with a specific assignment. Why is the dragon casting a third of the stars to the earth? Because he's initiating a fallen angelic invasion of the earth as part of his attempt to prevent the woman from giving birth. Satan only sends his angels down to earth when they can no longer control things from the heavens. That leaves 2 thirds still in the heavens which are thrown down when Michael & his angels casts satan and his angels down to the earth in Rev 12:7. This war in the heavens is presumably initiated by the male child overcomers returning with their assignment to the earth. Here are some teachers who interpret Rev 12 this way: - Terry Bennett (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eriZdriDspOxYac.html) - Neville Johnson (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mZ9gktObydG1m2g.html) - David Pawson (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eJ98eJV5p5bbc40.html) - Derek Prince (kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iJqFkpSgt76bj4U.html) - Brian Simmons (Translator of The Passion Translation Bible): see the Rev 12 footnotes in TPT

We have been bamboozled by Sunday School...all of us.

Forget where this is in REVELATION but it says that the devil and HIS ANGELS, and those he deceived were cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

The dragon took one third of the stars with him. In the book of Revelations.

Can Angels still fall? Women are supposed to cover their heads in Church because of the Angels? Thoughts?

Thats quite possibly because everything was explained in Enoch...

Revelation says it plainly. You are wrong Sir. Lucifer took a third of the stars/angels with his tail

The thing is, satan wasn’t created as a bad guy. He was likely an angel before Eden. Since he’s already an adversary of God in the garden, clearly he was fallen at that point. So while people can debate the whole ‘taking a third of the angels with him’, nevertheless at least one angel, satan, fell before Genesis six. I’m not sure how anyone can dispute the temporal sequence.

No other candidate? What about Daniel 10?

Is Sympathy for the Devil by the Rolling Stones your favorite song? You seem to give the devil a break at every turn.

Hello, 😃 where can I look at this presentation in it's entirety?🤔 Thank you,

I believe this passage tells of those fallen angels. (Revelation 12:4) “And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child,”

Ezekiel 28 talks about a guardian cherub who was blameless until wickedness found him…

Dr. Heisers work has turned my theology upside down ... for the better. Found his stuff a number of years ago when my "schooling" related to the sethite theory of Genesis 6:4 really bothered me and then he "messed with my head" and the rest is history! Thank you DMH! My church thanks you as well.

Dr. Heiser, I love listening to you but on this point you've got it wrong! Your main point of argument is the chronology. The problem is if you read many of the other prophets you'll see that prophecies are not necessarily chronological. And in verse 9 it clearly states that the Serpent and his angels were thrown down to earth. The angels that were cast out were aware of the coming of the messiah and did try to stop Him.

It's weird because the layers of stories and tropes overlap. It's not always linear. In fact... it often isn't. But obviously Satan had to fall before tempting Adam amd Eve, but it talks about his fall... at the founding of the Messiah. Which time? On Earth? Or before the Accuser tempted Adam and Eve? Or is it a cycle that happens over and over, until it is resolved?

We are many, we are legion. Biggest lie Satan ever told. He is alone.

There's a reason why freemasons (Satanists) love the number 33 because one third of the angels fell. The Satanists seem to think one third of the angels fell.

Probably talking about revelation 1/3 of the stars (the stars seems to be symbolizing celestial angels) with the dragons tail maybe?!?

And in the last days, false prophets and false messiahs will abound. Even the devil can quote scripture when it serves his needs.

Then what are demons or spirits mentioned in Bible if not fallen angels ?

I agree with Mike on almost everything, but I hate how he interprets stars to mean angels in so many other passages, but hand waves it away here as if it's not a possible interpretation.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Genesis:3:1

I respectfully disagree. I do think Rev 12 is revealing 1/3 of the angels rebelled with Satan. How many is 1/3? Who knows. Peter and Judes letters are inspired. They, including John we're disciples personally taught by Jesus Himself and they we're Holy Spirit filled. I'm confident in the authority and truths set forth in their letters. Thank you for sharing your vast knowledge and insights, I've learned much through you. Just in this one conclusion I think I disagree.

Hi Dr. It still seems unclear. The revelation verse does say satan & his angels. Who are these angels? When did they join satan & how. They were obviously aligned with him before the battle in heaven

We need to talk Mike!

I have been working on a study of Revelation for months and chapter 12, with the war in heaven, is an area I have been grappling with trying to understand the timing of this episode. I did understand the war was due to the victory of Jesus which gave way to His church, and the rapture which followed. I thought the rapture escalated the revolt by Satan and his angels. (Because the common belief is a third of the angels were thrown out of the third heaven but still maintained authority in the other two heavens and earth - the powers and authorities spoken of in Ephesians 6). In vengeance over the raptured church being allowed into the third heaven, which Satan had been evicted from, this infuriated Satan and commenced a final battle/war against the angels loyal to God. In other words, out of jealousy as Satan watches the church gain access where he has lost access. As chapter 12 reads, Satan is completely kicked out of all heavens and exiled completely to the earth. At least that's how I understood "the war" in chapter 12. This teaching by Mr. Heiser has opened my eyes to greater possibilities in understanding chapter 12. Also, this brings more light to "as the days of Noah were" teaching Jesus gives in Matthew 24:36-39 and Luke 17:26-27. I say this more for me rather than anyone else. Just thinking aloud.

I have made people angry pointing out that Rev 12:6 IS NOT Satan and 1/3 of the Angels.... I even provided context to this verse and... a complete list of all references of "stars of heaven" found in the Bible which doesn't refer to "angels"...

Sooo, it's a timing issue? It didn't occur "before" the Fall, but it occurred sometime "after" the Fall?

Most scripture is referring to some deeper truth and meaning. It doesn’t have to literally say those words but they are implied in the prophets.

Dr Heiser you are a great theologian and I have learned a lot from you. I love your idea of the Divine Counsel. It helps to make scene of a lot of verses in the Bible. I believe in Genesis 1-3 that Satan is an angelic being. I also believe the Tree of Knowledge is an angelic entity. So these are at least 2 other 'angelic' type beings that sinned besides the group of 'sons of god' that came down on Mt Hermon in the days of Jered. We do not know what happened in the primeval past. But Genesis 1:1-2 imply that the heavens and earth were created in perfection. Somehow they became without form and void, a heap of ruin, uninhabitable. Other places in the Bible infer that this destruction was caused by a rebellion against the Most High God by 'angelic' beings for a lack of a better term. So the Bible does imply some kind of galactic kinetic war in heaven in the primordial past. That is the world that then was that Peter talks about. In John 13:31 Yeshua states that NOW is the prince of this world cast out (meaning out of the earth). So Satan is now somewhere up in the second heaven accusing us before our God day and night. He will be cast back into the earth when there is another war or another phase of the same war that started in the primordial past when he fights with Michael and his angels. I believe the 5th Trumpet is Satan being cast back into the earth where he will unlock the pit where his co-conspirator, The Destroyer, also known as The Tree of Knowledge will be set loose on earth with his demon hordes to torment humans for 5 months. So we can infer without direct reference that there has been an angelic rebellion going on for a very long time since the primeval past.

It reminds me of one Scripture, where Yeshua Kristos said on the cross: The dogs of Bashan are all around me, mocking me, while i lay my life down for mankind, doing the will of the MOST HIGH Father in Heaven. The Book of 1 Enoch also mentioned angels that sinned, but they did not FELL DOWN to earth as a punishment. They traveled to earth, to settle on Mount Hermon, by their own free will. I think too, that the birth of Christ was the event, important enough, to start a Heavenly war. The dogs of Bashan were maybee mocking fallen angels, that normal people could not see, but Jeshua saw them, because He is part of the CREATOR-Trinity. I love your lectures, thank you!

One scripture is all that is needed.