Differential Hardening vs Though Hardening & Folded Steel vs Mono Steel

Differential Hardening vs Though Hardening & Folded Steel vs Mono Steel - What Makes a Better Katana

Рет қаралды 5,658

Ай бұрын

Hello there sword friends,
This video is one I have pondered how to do well for quite a while and I think I am ready to give it a go. I am hoping to shed a little light “from a beginner perspective” on what some of the differences are in heat treatment and the impact of folding.
You will see these five blades generously donated by JKOO. Check them out here -
www.sinosword.com/
jkoosword.com/
T10 steel, through hardened blade
US$128
41.75” total length
2lb 8.7oz
29” Blade
1080 carbon folded steel mix with 1095 steel, the main material is 1080 steel , through hardened blade
US$148
41.65” total length
2lb 8.3 oz
29” Blade
T10 steel with hamon
US$158
41.612” total length
2lb 8.8 oz
29” Blade
1080 carbon folded steel mix with 1095 steel, the main material is 1080 steel with hamon
US$178
41.78” total length
2lb 7.9 oz
29” Blade
T10 steel (hitatsura hamon)
US$218
41.55” total length
2lb 8.8 oz
29” Blade
These blades are as close to the same as the forge could make them. Keep in mind there are some minor differences but they all have the same fittings and feeling.
This video is broken down into the following parts.
10:27 Observations on the steel and its aesthetic qualities.
15:08General movement of the blades and any differences I observe in iaido.
16:36 General cutting.
Water bottles
Noodles
17:36 Medium Cutting
Wood
Side Strike Slap
21:17 Abuse
Baton into copper and steel
Tree Yeet
CSoD
29:40 Summary and Final Thoughts
Some notes to keep in mind.
THIS IS NOT SCIENCE
There are variations in hand made objects; these blades do not holistically represent all blades of their style or type.
There are an enormous amount of variables at play and the observations I take are subjective.
I practice but I am not an expert.
These are samples. Infer what bias you will from that.
There is more to katana or swords in general than these kinds of options. I am not covering different kinds of steel. I am not covering various lamination techniques. I am not covering the variability that can exist in heat treatments, different processes, or different harnesses of the same steel.
Sword Stand by Enso Workshop - www.etsy.com/shop/EnsoWorkshop
Music provided by - Kevin MacLeod incompetech.com
Link to the Facebook spot - / matthewjensenswordreview
Link to the Twitch spot - / sword_friend_matt
Link to the Patreon spot - / krunan
Link to the TicTock spot -.tiktok.com/@SwordFriendMatt
Link to the Instagram spot - / matthewjensenswordguy
Link to the KZfaq Membership spot - / @matthew_jensen
Link to my eBay sales page - www.ebay.com/usr/krunangree

Пікірлер: 101

@RockModeNick Ай бұрын

I think there's a somewhat valuable thing established by Jkoo here. The Internet consensus is that it's risky buying inexpensive folded steel swords because the risk of creating flaws that weakens the blades is high. I think they've demonstrated that they, at least generally, do not have that problem with their products.

@kaoskronostyche9939 Ай бұрын

I think your reviews are about as scientific and consistent as they can be without a high-tech materials testing lab. You are also consistent in declaring your disclaimers, background, limitations, strengths, point of view and your humbleness. I am not so interested in Katanas but metallurgy and blade manufacture interest me. You may think you fail at the science but you succeed at everything else - your photography, your commentary, your sound editing and you have a very good voice. Thank you for yet another fascinating and educational review. Cheers!

@bmxriderforlife1234 Ай бұрын

He gets pretty close to some traditional Japanese destructive testing for study of blades. And some of the differences improve the testing imo. So I'd agree.

@preparedsurvivalist2245 Ай бұрын

Hats off to JKOO and Matthew for contributing to this, what should be looked at as a longterm contribution to sword material/fabrication education. The most important insight gained here I think is the point of abuse where some swords break and others don't...rather than just watch all the swords being destroyed simply for the sake of showing it can be done.

@WhatIfBrigade Ай бұрын

Rare blessing. That the cheaper through hardened blades are better at hitting the stand seems like an excellent feature for beginners. My brother took a huge divot out of the cutting stand, he was shocked how much wood was sliced off. 🤣

@2zen777 Ай бұрын

This is why you need at least 2 swords. 1 through hardened sword made of spring steel or even better s5/ s7 shock steel as a beater daily cutter. And 1 traditionally made sword with folding and hamon for aesthetic value, maybe only used for iaido to preserve its looks.

@bmxriderforlife1234 Ай бұрын

Or If my brand works out you get one of my blades that's got a bainite spine and a martensite edge for rhe through hardened. Howard clark if you got rhe money. And a traditional hamon type blade.

@Krishnaeternal Ай бұрын

You need three of each type....one to use, one to show off, and one to worship.

@Hullbreachdetected Ай бұрын

Same here, I have backyard cutter swords and decorative/collecter swords. Mostly, the price or sentimental value is the deciding factor. I will not use anything above $1000, even for soft targets. I got plenty spring steel and thru hardened sword to play with, no point damaging expensive stuff.

@shimazuyamato Ай бұрын

Finally found some clues and answers to my questions. Please continue hard work in future 👍

@EloyBushida Ай бұрын

In my own experience through hardened swords of modern steel are basically indestructible. I always recommend them for new buyers looking to cut stuff for this reason.

@grantcox4764 Ай бұрын

Excellent video, even tho the results were basically what I expected, it was nice to see my thoughts replicated by your testing. And good on the manufacturer for sending 5 examples for your use with not a hell of a lot of upside on their end. I'll be contacting them to thank them personally. Nice to see some budget priced blades getting a bit of love...

@GermanSausagesAreTheWurst Ай бұрын

I'm a fan of spring steel for beginners, and I would have liked to seen an example of that. But it is still very generous of them to donate the swords, no matter what kind of steel.

@CJLiveFromTheOutdoors Ай бұрын

That was a very informative video. I really appreciate your detailed explanations. Thank you for taking the time to do the analysis, record your findings in detail and share them with us. Your videos really help my understanding and i've learned a lot from them. Thank you.

@dlatrexswords Ай бұрын

Spectacular testing sir. This is some of the best, side by side that anyone has managed to put together. Awesome resource for beginners but I think a huge benefit to the sword community at large

@KF1 Ай бұрын

Similar sentiments here. I love a good sword test. This was easily the most scientific and methodical test to date.

@Krishnaeternal Ай бұрын

This is a really good video. Incredibly informative.

@WhatIfBrigade Ай бұрын

This is one of my favorite videos for beginners I've seen yet. You took five very similar swords in terms of style and even price points, and isolated the key difference which was the steel. I cannot think of another reviewer who does it like this and I'd love to see similar comparisons, whether destructive or not. ie all of the Landsknecht blade sizes, etc. This style could also be fun with similar models, ie different 1796 Light Calvary replicas, etc. Great work!

@bmxriderforlife1234 Ай бұрын

I personally believe you need a differentially hardened blade and something that simulates a spring tempered blade even if its a bainite spine and a martensite edge. Even if you have a fancy bomb proof dojo beater type its still kind of a dojo beater in a sense. Differentially hardened blades like the traditional style fill certain roles the other types dont tho. Folded is a nice thing to have. But isnt a must imo. But given the cost of some of the dedent quality folded swords available you can do some decent projects with them that match higher end builds or production pieces for their own kinda factor. Blingy. Bit more traditional and if clayed then also serves the roles of a clayed blade. Just maybe not as durable as a non folded blade depending. But whole reason im gonna do the bainite spine and martensite edge on nihonto blade replicas. Fits a specific role and niche.

@ilejovcevski79 Ай бұрын

Kudos on the courage and consistency..... those tests were not cheap by any measure!

@purpose-seeker Ай бұрын

Excellent video!

@LancelotChan Ай бұрын

Thank you very much for all these testing. Very informative.

@StonesSticksBones Ай бұрын

Excellent video

@handel1111 Ай бұрын

Filipino swordsmiths use interrupted quenching / differential quenching 5160 on water like KC Katanas, the result is suguha hamon without claying, they're pretty tough and durable

@Taurus_Skyglaive Ай бұрын

Great video! Been looking for information of this type.

@Cerberusarms Ай бұрын

Great vid man! Glad someone made this video cause it's something I've been wondering about personally. Nice to have this info online for interested buyers.

@oubliette862 Ай бұрын

this is a really good topic, I'm going to enjoy this.

@ninjaman381 Ай бұрын

Iv been waiting for a video like this for a long time thank you mathew for this informative video.

@Matthew_Jensen Ай бұрын

My pleasure!

@lucanic4328 Ай бұрын

This is why occasionally on historical blades you have a hardened mune. The edge of the sword is under compressive stress, meaning it takes more force to increase the curvature of the sword (=making the edge longer) relative to a stress-free edge to the breaking point. The same for the back, just with the signs reversed. If you hit something hard, the curvature will also increase. Your katana with the built-in stress will then bend less than it would in a stress-free state. The opposite happens if you hit with the mune, as now there is "less room" for failure so to speak. If you have a hardened mune, you can balance

@bmxriderforlife1234 Ай бұрын

You also have it for some additional reasons for styles that use alot of mune strikes and blocks. Lite the jutte hardened mune can Crack a sword edge and really mess up another sword striking yours.

@robertbrittian6815 Ай бұрын

Thanks , I found the video very interesting .

@user-wd4ge2zh2c 24 күн бұрын

I've always preferred though hardening. Everyone though hardens over here where I'm from. It's been the rage forever.

@michaelrs8010 Ай бұрын

Great video. 👍 Can't wait for it to go public so I can share it.

@serpnta1267 Ай бұрын

Interesting video. 3 nice breaks on the same hit. 2 survive. I did see that coming.

@Matthew_Jensen Ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@iratezombiemann Ай бұрын

Through hardened gang. Also... ANATHAR ♫

@not-a-raccoon Ай бұрын

THROUGH HARDENED GANG!!

@kilianortmann9979 Ай бұрын

Spring steel still part of the through hardened gang?

@iratezombiemann Ай бұрын

@@kilianortmann9979 yup

@JoeSteel1 Ай бұрын

excellently Done Matthew

@Matthew_Jensen Ай бұрын

thank you sir

@drmanleyk Ай бұрын

I'm surprised by the folded vs not. Great video!

@erichusayn Ай бұрын

Great video idea.

@antouab221 Ай бұрын

Wow, Mat your video has exceeded all expectations this time :) I think you convinced me to get a Hitatsura from JKOO. I already have enough through hardened katanas and I like them all. But Hitatsura will be the first one with amazing hamon line.

@Matthew_Jensen Ай бұрын

Glad to hear it!

@lildragon0 Ай бұрын

Hitatsura looks beautiful

@Snarlacc Ай бұрын

You could try scratching the swords with each other to reaffirm some are harder than others.

@StudioGDT Ай бұрын

This was a fantastic review. Myths get propagated quite easily over and over through time and it was nice to have an at least SOMEWHAT (lol) scientific enough test model to confirm/deny somethings we think we know. Thanks to you and JKOO for putting this together.

@TONEDEAFSOUND Ай бұрын

love this love my jkoo

@JCOwens-zq6fd Ай бұрын

They all have their pros & cons. Though I have found through trial & error that the height & eveness of the hamon has quite an impact on the durability of the edge on a duff hardened blade. While prettier the more erratic hamon with deep peaks & valleys can introduce a stress point. Whereas a shorter more even one can take more damage b4 it fails. Have noticed this at all Matt?

@Matthew_Jensen Ай бұрын

I have not seen a big difference in the impact of hamon on durability. Maybe another video.

@aaronmatheson9730 Ай бұрын

I can say that I have lost more blades to snapping while quenching that have wilder hamon, like choji. Way less have cracked with suguha (water quench ). So that makes sense to me.

@alexwilmes9496 Ай бұрын

This makes me think that parrying a strike with the edge of the blade is better for a traditionally made katana than trying to receive the blade with the flat and definitely not the mune. I’m wondering if the lamination technique of historic blades determined that.

@alanBeard-dg8zs Ай бұрын

Ne jamais parer avec le tranchant

@alexwilmes9496 Ай бұрын

@@alanBeard-dg8zs that’s just not true

@nguyentrunghieu5674 Ай бұрын

I agree man. Imo, those who say parry/block is done with the flat or ,god forbid, the spine🙃🙃 instead of the edge in order to preserve the sharp edge are just ignorant and plain fantastical. They've clearly never seen the katana through destructive test and instead play around the idea of the sacred katana. And yes, I know that the flat and spine can be used for defensive move, but that's more of a deflect instead of parry.

@erichusayn Ай бұрын

Take an old snow shovel handle, jam it into an old mini Christmas tree stand. Cut the handle at belly button height. That way the noodle is fixed and you will get much cleaner cuts.

@KF1 Ай бұрын

Have you ever had a Jkoo that you felt was worth keeping? Worth as a primary cutter? Also, good advice about the stand, that helps for sure, but Matt isn't comboing low nor driving trips. Wish he would :p

@erichusayn Ай бұрын

@KF1 that was the katana I "got good" with. Still in great shape too after years of use and some abusse.

@KF1 Ай бұрын

@@erichusayn Nice

@erichusayn Ай бұрын

@KF1 a laminated (not requested, must have been from a botched prior customer as activity is much more prominent on one side than the other) unokubi zukuri at that. Very well done. Taken corners clean off the stand, my dad let go after a cut amd it flew 15ft and sunk 3-4" into the old 60s wood garage siding, along with me burying the blade well past the mune into stand more times than id like to admit and blade is still true, nothing loose, and the ito, if anything, has gotten tighter over the years. I'll do a 5 year check up video one of these days. I would definitely recommend for a beginner or an advanced cutter. Ive handled like a dozen of Karls and a couple of Dangers, and all of them were well made as well.

@KF1 Ай бұрын

@@erichusayn Good to hear. That's an awesome deal. I've had poor experience with them, though often folks say how good they are when they get it right. Unexpected lamination must have been a welcome surprise.

@DK_1983 Ай бұрын

17:16 Woaah! Number 3 almost decapitated number 2 :|

@dan_the_dj Ай бұрын

Im actually not that surprised about those differentially hardened blades breaking after only one hit with the back. Now, I know they suffered damage prior, but my theory is that they would have fared the same even if that kind of hit was the first thing you did. Since the edge steel is so hard, its also very brittle, and brittle materials are usually poorer when it comes to handling tension, which is exactly what happens to the edge when youre hitting an immovable object with the back. It would be very interesting to see this theory of mine confirmed or debunked, but that would be a costly endeavor indeed :D

@FullKarenMusic 25 күн бұрын

I think through hardened, if available, would have been the samurai's choice for the Sengoku Jidai. Differential for Edo period.

@lautanauhahattu6798 Ай бұрын

My thought process, when this popped in youtube recommendation: " Oh sh*t. Not another sword know-it-all with their b*llshit theorie.... Wait. It's Matthew Jensen. Cool."

@121qwert2 Ай бұрын

Might be helpful to add chapters if you want people who want to skip forward. I think any difference in sharpness will directly impact the chip out on the copper rod. A deeper chip will create a higher chance of a snap.

@candyshop84106 Ай бұрын

MATT.. So you tested some cars on the race track without saying what type engine they had ..Hardening is very important and that was good distinction. But Need to know what type engines your cars had in them.

@candyshop84106 Ай бұрын

MATT.. Hardening is not main reason of not showing wear. It is the additives to the steels. For example, Chrom in some of the steels.. 14CR And 440 Stainless.. Please watch PHD Dr.Thomas and Blacksmith Illya with "The Works" . Illya explains what Folding does to impurities and that today's steels dont have impurities. So FOLDING IS JUST FOR THE LOOKS...

@CJLiveFromTheOutdoors Ай бұрын

Can you tell me what type of "high carbon steel" they used in folding? I went to their website and I only saw one sword (made with folded metal and in the price range you listed) and it said it was 1050. I usually see 1050 steel associated with "cheap swords*. I'm surprised and impressed if the folded steel, through-hardened sword that survived the Croquet Stick of Doom was 1050 steel. *I admit to being a rank newbie, maybe I've been looking at too many cheap sword manufacturers...

@Superiorlumbago9260 Ай бұрын

From my reading experience, they usually fold the 1045, cheap and easy, if what cold steel machetes say its correct, they are made of 1050, and they are strong, any destruction test i saw its impressive, hard to thing 5 more % in carbon can make such difference, but i will still want yo believe 1060, 5160 and 9260 when spring tempered, are the most durable one, those CS machetes may be 1060 and i'm just confused

@mariaconcepcionrodriguezhe2850 Ай бұрын

@@Superiorlumbago9260thats 0.5% diff. The reason that 0,6%C is max C for toughness oriented blades is because above this threshold the C no longer dissolves and instead creates iron carbides troughout the blade, these serve as stress risers.

@mariaconcepcionrodriguezhe2850 Ай бұрын

Lower carbon steels are easier to forge and grind and therefore cheaper. They are also much tougher.

@insanitypepper1740 Ай бұрын

I don't understand the difference between mono steel and folded steel. I'm assuming mono steel comes as barstock with a specific rating. What is folded steel, a mixture of different steels?

@alexwilmes9496 Ай бұрын

Folded is generally just them taking the same mono steel stock and heating + folding and then hammering back out to shape.

@mariaconcepcionrodriguezhe2850 Ай бұрын

Aka damascus steel

@chef7734 Ай бұрын

What are the colors of the silk? Is it synthetic silk or real Japanese silk?

@Matthew_Jensen Ай бұрын

I would guess synthetic

@strydyrhellzrydyr1345 14 күн бұрын

Damn .. none of them have a Fuller.. can't remember the right word. I wish they had fuller

@vgamedude12 21 күн бұрын

I wonder why japanese didnt really make katanas through hardened traditionally?

@Superiorlumbago9260 Ай бұрын

I remembered you trying to snap a 1045 differentially H. and it wouldn't snap, the low carbon made the spine very "iron like", i'm inclined to believe Japanese katanas behave more like that, and the high carbon trend isn't for every "recipe", or every smith I saw a show called "weapon masters", but i can no longer find the katana episode, they tested a through hardened 1095, spring tempered if i remember correctly, against a hanwei , and the 1095 won, conspiracy me likes to thinks thats the reason i can't find said episode

@candyshop84106 Ай бұрын

MATT... Your talking amd testing swords WITHOUT DEFINING WHAT TYPE OF STEEL THE SWORD IS.. Is it 440 Type Steel or A Chinese 13CR. Type steel. Explain T10.. Without Knowing the TYPE OF STEEL. Is like TALKING ABOUT CARS WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT WHAT ENGINE THE CAR HAS IN IT.. I like you Matt and watch your channel. Im trying to help you do more informtive tests..

@alexwilmes9496 Ай бұрын

He mentioned they were ‘T10’ with different heat treatments. This video seems intended to share some anecdotal thoughts, with some video evidence, on how 5 common blade styles performed side by side in a durability test. The deep dive into the steel is probably more appropriate for a video about Lanquan forges as a whole, since they all claim T10 for many of their swords. It’s also somewhat well known that T10 swords are actually made from T8, since it can be differentially hardened much easier without warping.

@candyshop84106 Ай бұрын

@@alexwilmes9496 Yes Matt did mentiom T10 but without expanding on what that means. Nothing on tyoe of Stainless on the others.. INGREDIENCE is Very Important..How much Chrom is it Chinese 13cr or American 440c. Why Stainless gives up edge retention bs say 1095.. Genious Blacksmith Illya with "The Wotks" has a very good video on folding what it and doesnt do.. Genius Dr Thomas a PHD on metals that jas created Magna cut steel.. Trying to make a steel that trys to capture all three needs. 1) Edge Retention, 2)Toughness 3) Corrosion resistance....Skall was the start but there is more to know...Matt's channel is to the point he needs to expand from just backyard breaking.. He is good enough to learn and teach steels and how important "The Type Of Engine" is in the car.. With that I REALLY Like Matt.. Such great guy.. Great ASMR.. So relaxing.. I just want Matt to learn and expand a more on steel...

@alexwilmes9496 Ай бұрын

@@candyshop84106considering the forges don’t even correctly list the blades as T8, there is no way of knowing the exact specs of the steel stock that they use. You can look up t8 and learn what it is in broad strokes, but that’s about as much as you’d know.

@user-wx3wx5vy3q Ай бұрын

I feel like this question only serves a purpose in a historical context

@notanotherswordreviewchann4901 Ай бұрын

While technically thru hardened blades don't hold an edge as long as the dual hardened ones and at a lower temp ...they're more than fine at holding an edge for years even with long cutting sessions. And they can take more of a beating. I'd rather have a thru hardened blade over a dual hardened one for battle any day.

@notanotherswordreviewchann4901 Ай бұрын

This is the definitive video! Finally! The argument is over! This video has been needed to be done for the longest time! I'm all in on thru hardened swords! Westerns for the win!

@candyshop84106 Ай бұрын

MATT.. Im going to Assume that at the price point of these swords they are made of Chinese 13CR steel. Or an American 440C. Not a 1090 or 1060 or other any alloys in the Steel. This detail of type steel is VERY IMPORTANT.. Your talking about cars without knowing what kind of engine it has. Like the showing of how a soft spine can bend..

@Matthew_Jensen Ай бұрын

The non-folded are noted as T10 in the description and in the video. I am not sure what the folded blades include but I will ask and add it to the video. Do you think the steel type will change the general advice taken from this video?

@candyshop84106 Ай бұрын

@@Matthew_Jensen @alexwilmes9496 Yes Matt did mentiom T10 but without expanding on what that means. Nothing on tyoe of Stainless on the others.. INGREDIENCE is Very Important..How much Chrom is it Chinese 13cr or American 440c. Why Stainless gives up edge retention bs say 1095.. Genious Blacksmith Illya with "The Wotks" has a very good video on folding what it and doesnt do.. Genius Dr Thomas a PHD on metals that jas created Magna cut steel.. Trying to make a steel that trys to capture all three needs. 1) Edge Retention, 2)Toughness 3) Corrosion resistance....Skall was the start but there is more to know...Matt's channel is to the point he needs to expand from just backyard breaking.. He is good enough to learn and teach steels and how important "The Type Of Engine" is in the car.. With that I REALLY Like Matt.. Such great guy.. Great ASMR.. So relaxing.. I just want Matt to learn and expand a more on steel...