Robert morris sin happened 35 years ago ago! We all better learn to extend the same grace and mercy that God gave the entire world! We will be judged by the same measure! We use James 2:13 “For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.” Galatians 6:1-8 English Standard Version Bear One Another's Burdens 6 Brothers,[a] if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. 5 For each will have to bear his own load. 6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

@nschlaak "they can be restored to being a member of the body " IF (big IF) they are truly saved, they ARE members of the body. They can never be OUT of the body. There is only ONE body. A local church is not a body. It's just a local assembly of Christians. It's not here a body, there a body, everywhere a body, body. That common idea is NOT Scriptural. " *_There is one body_* and one Spirit - just as you were called to one hope at your calling - one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in all. " (Eph 4:4-6)

@@Packhorse-bh8qn 1 Corinthians 5:5 deals with the destruction of a person's body. However, I was referring to the body of the local denomination and not the body of Christ.

Agree, however the fact they are being restored contrary to the teachings of the early church just proves we are in the last days, where false prophets, and teachers with proliferate. Jesus did say end time events would get worse, and many will fall away from the Truth before His coming, so in a way these false pastors serve a purpose as proof and a warning to those who are waiting and watching for Jesus return. He is coming very soon, in this generation.

@@nschlaak most of us know this. Some people have to be specific or are simply picky. What you said and intended is obvious.

Study what Martin Luther said."Scripture ONLY Scripture." God's word is the only thing you need. All these books to read are not the Bible. The authors put their own twist on Scripture. The only one I liked was Billy Graham. He only talked about Jesus Christ. The Scripture is Jesus Christ. The Apostles only preached Jesus Christ. There are men that call themselves Apostles. There were only 10. These nut jobs today will only get you confused.

John MacArthur's Doctrine is unbiblical. He speaks about gifts of the spirit such as healing, speaking in tongues and prophecy as a thing of the past. But the Bible states this specifically in 1 corinthians 13: 8-10 "Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. " The perfect is Jesus Christ, God made man, who hasn't arrived for the second time yet. So the partial is still not done away. This is why you need to study the Word. "My people perish for lack of knowledge...." Hosea 4:6. Don't Let the theology of man sway you because their Theatrics, Education and/or Rhetoric sound good. Stay Vigilant and Maranatha!

Look up perfect in Greek, means complete not perfection as we use it. Also look up when that which is perfect “shall come” ek mortentos “ which means bit by bit” what did we receive that is complete but by bit? Ps I’m saying all this off memory right now

@@cole5773 I'm glad you said this. Not perfection but complete. Who is the only one who has been completed into perfection of the body? Jesus as he proved it when he went through walls after the resurrection. What did we receive that is complete bit by bit? Our perfect bodies. When did we receive our perfect bodies? When we started hoping in what was announced in faith. "Bit by bit" means there are things that have to happen before "completion" aka Jesus, comes back. That there's a schedule for the end so that no one deceives us. He literally warns us when the disciples ask him about it in Matthew 24:3

I had the same experience, when I was new Christian I was introduced to Joyce Meyer, and I thought why is she like that with some arrogance , Charles Capp , I forgot the other name from name it claim it teachings and Benny Himm too , I thank God that He removed me from those teaching and was so grateful that led to RC Sproul , Voddie Buckham , Paul Washer and most of the Ligonier ministry

Yeah. And “above reproach” doesn’t mean “you don’t get to criticize me” like so many of these guys think.

I agree, but there's likely lots of disagreement over what this precisely means/how it is precisely defined. It draws a line, for sure. But where that line exists is going to have some degree of variance depending on who you ask. That isn't to say it's a subjective truth by any means, but it is to say that there is at best a moderate degree of difficulty in coming to a consensus or perfect understanding... even among brothers who are seriously minded and seeking the truth on the matter. Just like nearly every other doctrine where real Christians are prayerfully looking at the same information in the same book asking their same God to guide them into truth, yet still coming to quite drastically different conclusions.

It's sounds more the Demorats.

@@gray_rain some of the line could probably drawn at the other qualifying factor of having "a good standing in the community". Even the outside world see these pastors as shameful. But at the end of the day a "lead pastor" needs to be on the same level as any other elder. 99% of the time these lead pastors override the wisdom of the other elders. when that happens run.

Precisely! 👌

And money laundering too

Exactly. This is why we are warned about wolves in sheep's clothing. This very thing. Wolves don't become sheep and tares don't become wheat. Enough is enough.

Robert Morris supposedly went through 2 years of restoration with counseling and attending the freedom ministry. Really, it was all of one month then he joined James Robison’s ministry. 2 years after being found molesting a minor, he was made an Elder of Shady Grove church in Texas. Shame on the Shady Grove Leadership! 🤬. This is all in His book.

Amen.

Nope, those are just the ones we hear about.

I agree with the previous person commenting. I've seen this type of thing play out in smaller/local churches as I don't attend the "mega-church" variety as well. I immediately lose interest when pastors do not utilize Scripture, and when they promote unbiblical views on tithing, etc. Sexual sin is bad, but these other sins by those in the ministry are almost as bad.

I believe the rampant abuse is worse in smaller assemblies. Egotistical leaders who refuse to have deacons because they are afraid that they will vote out a bad pastor. It’s easy for an embittered and disgruntled person to get into ministry and then abuse the flock in order to vent personal rage and frustration. I have witnessed this problem many times, and it is a common issue in the fundamentalist churches. These sorts of men will never submit to elder oversight. It’s also unbiblical. 🙏🏼

Very wise observation!

@@duranbailiff5337 " Egotistical leaders who refuse to have deacons because they are afraid that they will vote out a bad pastor." There is nothing even REMOTELY Scriptural about deacons voting out a pastor. But then, nothing even remotely Scriptural about the common idea of a pastor.

Yep. And it's because they care more about themselves and their name than they do the name and glory of Christ

I might still be wary of a fallen pastor selling cars

Because they are lazy at the core of it! They want an easy job with a lot of benefits!!!!

Living like the common man does nothing for their ego. That's why they become preachers in the 1 place. Wowing people with great swelling words gives them a buzz that doing humble work like carpentry doesnt.

@@mikemuncy7464These hirelings may think that a pastoral position is easy, or they may want to make it easy, but it is not a cushy position. Preaching funerals, counseling the troubled, dealing with heresy, and having demonic sights set on your position is daunting. Pastors who actually care about their flock and genuinely honor God often work themselves to death. Burnout in ministry is a serious problem. When I was in Bible college we looked at the statistics and I was shocked at how bad it is in the US! 🙏🏼

Amen. You, all of you who may read this: you can't win on your own but only by the power of God. It is good to hate the sin, but you must also replace it with something you love. You love Jesus, you love your wife, or the hope for a wife someday, you love your family, and for the sake if these you fight your temptation. Signed a freeman

Where was Lucifer again before falling?

@@narindraramanankasaina2545what’s your point

We're protected from temptation when in Christ, we don't need to wait for heaven.

​@@narindraramanankasaina2545what verse was that from?

The victims are scared for life. Yes we’re new creations when we become Christians but the memories are there always and we bring every thought captive in obedience to Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit

Huh? What does being brehind the pulpit again have to do with repentance??? Repentance is a change of mind Robert morris sin happened 35 years ago ago! We best offer the Same grace and mercy God have all! James 2:13 “For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.” Galatians 6:1-8 English Standard Version Bear One Another's Burdens 6 Brothers,[a] if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. 5 For each will have to bear his own load. 6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Yeah, Mark Driscoll is one of the biggest offender

@@kevinburke1325 what did he do specifically that was so agregious I can only find quite vague accusations about him. I like watching his sermons so would be interested in knowing.

@user-tq3ud9zi7w if you like his sermons where he attacks men and defends wahmen and feminists, then that's part of the problem right there.

@@user-tq3ud9zi7w he literally buried someone behind Mars Hill after killing them.

What do you mean by "the church?"

The Bible instructs that there are times when capital punishment is required. Read the Book.

@@jeepstergal4043 I believe you misunderstood me. I am agreeing that c.p. IS Biblical.

I agree with you how church discipline is needed to keep law and order in the church. Church discipline is needed to protect the integrity of the church and to protect God's word. Everyone sins, and no one is perfect, but there are certain kinds of sins, infractions, etc that damage a person's role model status in regards to being a pastor, youth minister, elder, deacon, Sunday School teacher, etc. When someone's role model status is compromised in regards to being in a leadership position in a church, they need to be held accountable and removed from that position. There are certain kinds of infractions, sins, etc that warrant never being a pastor ever again. If a pastor molests a child, rapes someone, has sex with an underage teenage girl, etc, they should never work as a pastor ever again for the remainder of their life.

@@bikerboy9010 " Church discipline is needed to protect the integrity of the church and to protect God's word. " That is the PRIMARY purpose. Restoring the sinner is secondary.

What’s the difference?

@@failingdisciple938 A pastor (the same thing as an elder) is one of a group of spiritual overseers in a church, and he must meet the qualifications found in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Pastor means shepherd. His main job is to take care of the flock (the church), not to preach (but of course he can preach, like I said, and he must be able to teach). A preacher‘s job is to educate, not to oversee the church. And they are not subject to the same qualifications as pastors.

@@rh9626 good answer. Our church has designate roles, though we do call all of them a "pastor" of some kind. 1) Lead Pastor - main preacher, teacher and spiritual care. 2) Associate pastor - organizes small group sessions (aka Bible Study & Fellowship groups) and church wide annual events like VBS and church camp. 3) Teaching pastor - supports the lead pastor in the preaching role. This is a part-time position. 4) Worship pastor - rehearses the musical teams and sings/play with us. 5) Youth pastor - pastors kids grades 6 thru high school. 6) Children's pastor - pastors kids age birth thru 5th grade. I get what you're saying that not every pastor is a preacher, and some of our pastors fit that description. In our church only our Lead, Teaching, and occasionally Youth pastors preach to the whole congregation.

Don’t forget power, influence, and prestige. Low self esteem persons often seek positions that elevate themselves from their past. The “I am going to show everyone who I really am. They never understood my full potential.” mentality. Sadly, the ministry is packed with unqualified, ungifted, and self-called pastors. As bad as the problem is stateside, it’s much worse abroad. They are far from oversight and many write bogus reports on their ministries to supporting churches. I have witnessed this firsthand.🙏🏼

I think you are judgemental. You don't know what "their hearts were always after." You don't know even what one fallen pastor was after.

@@drjcw if this person is judgmental, then perhaps it is because Jesus says, "Do not judge only according to appearances, but judge with righteous judgment." - John 7:24 A good rule of thumb I've heard used for this is, "If the pastor lives in the nicest house and drives the nicest cars in the church, odds are he's in it for the money." We are called to be discerning and given gifts to do so. Do not fail to use them due to the old misused of "Judge not," which is all too common.

@sidwhiting665 Sid, all the judgements are by appearance, every single one. We haven't heard the other side. And if my pastor drives a nice car and has a nice house, great for him. It's none of my business. It's none of my business what you drive, and I won't judge you if I see you.

@@drjcw The Bible clearly warns of people like this. ‭Matthew 7:15-16 [15] “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [16] You will recognize them by their fruits.

What's surprising is a "pastor" who is not worthy of pastoring, doesn't recuse himself all together.

Was thinking the same thing. Pastors are still human and will make mistakes. Every single person in the bible other than Jesus made mistakes on their service and walk with God. That of course doesn’t mean there isn’t consequences for our actions.

Mmhmm they miss the lifestyle the big money brought.

Perfect example with the failure of RCC to demand full accountability. Problem is that just allows past offenders to re-offend. Leadership must have trust, and trust is HARD to regain once it has been lost. Seems like Protestant mega churches are way too lenient when it comes to this "restoration" business. Restore the sinner, yes! But do not restore to the office!

@@sidwhiting665 , AMEN, and well said.

The fact that you agree with Driscoll's theology does not mean he teaches sound doctrine. The very fact that he's practicing false doctrine means his theology is polluted. Everybody says their fav pastor preaches sound doctrine, but it's only because they won't truly scrutinize what they're preaching or practicing.

The church should be disbanded nonetheless

This!

Reportedly he resigned from the church, although the Elders should have fired. They were afraid they would hurt his feelings if they fired him. 🤬 But he’s enough of a narcissist, I wouldn’t surprised if he showed up preaching somewhere else. He’s only 62.

@@KansasMiss-mf4bj The elders did not follow the scriptures and that should make everyone leave this church. "Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” Matthew 15:14

"It's not a church of Christ, it is of the devil." That would be true even if his morals were pure. He's a false teacher and a blasphemer.

Jim Bakker smoothed the way for his comeback by renouncing prosperity preaching. He never seriously addressed the issue of his abnormal personal conduct and people just forgot about that

If God forgave Jimmy Swaggart what right do we have to still keep that against Jimmy...we may not judge....

What should happen is one should leave it.

Preaches what ?

​@@sebastiansingh5167the bible

Your entry seems to be the most scriptural and complete reason to deny one who has gone from the Lord , to return to public post. Yet we aren’t to judge . The so called pastor is held to an even higher standard than we and the Lord will indeed deal with it. Amen

@@marcisaacs9407 this is what the Pharisees said when the Lord spoke to them concerning their hypocrisy The fruit is what speaks for any of us The emphasis must be on the WINE not wineskins

I agree, I haven’t heard anyone say what Driscoll has done to disqualify him.

I haven’t seen anything to disqualify him and he seems to be faithfully preaching to this day.

He repeatedly threatened his elder board when confronted with taking money to promote his book. He used church funds for this. He was abusive and said that he would "destroy" some of them. He also referred to women as " homes for penis's." Vulgarity and spiritual abuse absolutely disqualifies someone from the office of pastor.

Agreed. I don’t know how being mean is the same as committing adultery or other grotesque sins like being a child predator

What pastoral trait does he exhibit? There is a difference between someone who gets behind the pulpit and someone who is a pastor. His teachings are very shallow, and he needs to undergo church discipline for his actions at Mars Hill.

@atoll8423 Exactly! These are the ones whose salvation is seriously suspect. Another thing is, when pastors are lax in their devotion to Christ, they make themselves open to all kinds of sins.

@atoll8423 Exactly! These are the ones whose salvation is seriously suspect. Another thing is, when pastors are lax in their devotion to Christ, they make themselves open to all kinds of sins.