Pinning & Liking your own lame advert for patreon comment??? shameful + greedy = unsubbed

Hey man great videos! Subscribed! Just wanted to let you know about an error I found At 14:00 you say but deon is not prepared for depth When it should be don

@vilintjay thanks. Must have slipped on the tongue

@@waterlinestories no worries bro it happens, keep up the great work I throughly enjoy every vid you make!

😊

Right lol

This is the only thing about diving that makes sense. You don't have to do it. 🙂

"face your fears" 🤓

See also the conga line of bodies going up Mt.Everest

@@avgeek-and-fashion Commercial diving has a purpose. Do you like energy or that thing called the internet?

Yes we could all do with that mindset from time to time, hopefully not in such extreme circumstances.

there is a really good documentary about - "Dave not coming back"

You mean bent not lent?

Thank you. I was wondering.

Glad you made it.

Hahahahahaha yeah right

@@beenhog6922 What’s funny? Oh yeah right I forgot, you stare and laugh at a blank wall. I remember u.

@@beenhog6922Are mentally handicapped or 12 or both?

Sheesh- I might be done with the ocean after an experience like that

Thanks for sharing. I'm glad it was helpful

Yes, this video really helped me understand as well. I was really confused by some aspects and this explains it very well.

Well said!

So easy to make a judgement like this afterwards. Sure you have to learn from past accidents, but these guys were all pros and this just shows the nature of these pursuits.

@@frikkied2638 Restricting your freedom of movement just looks like a bad move on the face of it, and what does 'being a pro' even mean if that experience doesn't benefit your decision making? A lot of the time I see that after a certain point additional experience actually begins to actively hurt a diver's capacity for good decision making, because they begin to forget that the sea is something that they absolutely SHOULD be afraid of.

Not necessarily a sunk cost fallacy. He may have thought that he was still alright under those conditions. The probable nitrogen narcosis wouldn't have helped much on that front. As you said, his experience might have worked against him there. I thought the real error was failing to consider the possibility of a buoyant body. That was never out of the question, yet it seemed not to have been a consideration. This massively compounded the problem you raised in your first point, as it turned what would have been a relatively straightforward procedure into a chaotic operation. A chaotic operation with an unfamiliar and messy setup is a recipe for disaster. Poor bloke.

There was no reason to go back down for the body to begin with, other than getting the footage and chasing the glory. Without the camera on him it was a mute point, he had already broken the record. He was there to break depth records to begin with.

Thanks for saying so. Welcome aboard

Perhaps and hopefully search "Dave is not coming back ". .....

*false confidence

I don’t think the full video showing his demise has ever actually been released, just snippets and cuts of it for Tv stations and interviews etc. The guy who has the footage, his friend, said it is like a snuff film because it shows his death

Also the corpse could float away and if they were to return, they may not be able to find it the next time.

He was probably also really narc’d.

He was narced by 3 min at the bottom. Deadman by 5 min at depth.@@collinjamesguitar

Just like summit fever

Indeed. If I was family of Dion, I don't think I would care to have his body recovered: this is actually a much more special grave

Thanks I appreciate that👍🏻

Probably because David got down there, and lost the perspective of not having to do something vs. having to do something. It happens in heavy industry as well and some of the worst accidents and closest calls that could have killed multiple people were because someone in management or making decisions decided that we had to do _____ right now, instead of at a later time when we had proper equipment / conditions. David knew all the logistics it took to get him down there the first time, so I think he got the "I'll try this" mindset stuck in his head and he didn't realize how much trouble he was in until it was too late for him.

Thanks, I really appreciate that

Your life is normal. The people that do this type of reckless nonsense deserve their fate... Keep doing the best you can. Make the those in your world smile. That's much more important than removing the soulless goo corpse of a random idiot.

Ah good stuff. Thanks for saying so

👌🏻

Interesting, I didn’t know that, thanks for sharing

They took bodies all the way from the death zone back to base camp?? I find that hard to believe

@@stevencoardvenice many people died way below the death zone. at least 3 people died (including one famous body and 2 people that tried to bring that body down) near base camp.

​@@stevencoardveniceThey did recover a few. But there are still a lot of corpses that are impossible to remove. I'm guessing they recovered ones that were at a lower elevation.

I’m an ex diving instructor and sailor. I really enjoy learning about the stories and sharing them. I started with a channel about how to scuba dive so it’s not my first rodeo.

Yep, its like threading a needle and if you get it wrong just once, its all over. More is on the way.

@@waterlinestories that is an excellent analogy

In every area of tech diving, certain divers are known for their retrieval skills. Handling a DB at depth is incredibly difficult. I’ve seen it done, but I do not have the skills to try it.

I read the book about this incident a few years ago. I seem to remember that when Don was desending to try and help Dave, his rebreather computer imploded from the pressure, which left him having to manually control the O2 in his loop. All while bent, with vertigo, spinning on the downline and throwing up in his mouth piece. It would be an absolutely hellish nightmare. The fact he survived is a miracle.

I feel like the divers involved were excited to do this as a personal achievement first and a service to the dead second. A sad story, but they knew the risks.

True

As an airline captain he should have been a systems guy not a lone soldier. Interesting angle.

I was looking for exactly that comment but you said it 100 times better than I could have. Absolutely my thinking, ego-driven behavior leading to fatality, luckily Don didn't die to his best friends obsession about a 20 year decomposing corpse....

That's also what I thought. They were saving a decomposed body that has been in the same place for a very long time. Not a life or death situation, and the corpse wasn't likely to disappear. Instead of risking lives they could've at least waited until the technology would allow safer/easier diving.

Agree. This was a dumb idea through and through.

Ive been thinking of that too. Theres lots of dangerous activities like that that are addicting. Including skydiving, rock climbing, driving too fast. I think when people do this the danger forces the mind to be clear and focused... Muting all other problems and things to think about. In a situation supposedly very stressful... The opposite actually happens.. i think the mind finds peace. At least thats how i analyzed why i myself got addicted to a sjmilar activity

@@shogrran Driving fast is not scary like diving IMO, i mean you are only scared when something goes wrong in the first scenario, but diving? even if no accident happened i nervous thinking about spendeing 10 hours deep down on the dark alone this is crazy

Diving where there's no quick way back up, anyway.

​@@Deb.-.I dove near where I live in the Seattle area for the first time recently, we had essentially zero visibility for parts of the scuba certification we were doing. It was just a brown silty murk. It was stressful at first but I calmed down pretty quickly I found. Made the underwater navigation skill a pain, I can only imagine the added stress if you're in a cave with zero visibility and you can't just surface wherever you want.

@@shogrranyou describe it perfectly , I’m a naturally anxious person and always thinking of 10 different things , I have done bungee jumping, sky diving and scuba diving , I found myself to be able to stay in the present moment and not think of other things .

Thanks. Welcome aboard

Thanks. I turn off videos with those AI readers. There's something a bit off about them.

@@waterlinestories I do too! Just read it, even if you don't like your own voice 👍

Thanks, I really appreciate that 👍🏻

Thanks Peter. I did my best to research as much as possible and to be as respectful as I could.

Yeah you're right B. (If you'll excuse the familiarity) I eventually worked it out too. Different gases really messing up the divers decompression.

Thanks for watching

Thanks. I feel the same way. Id like to do some technical diving but at the same time I have a deep respect for the position people put themselves.

I never met Dave or Don Shirley, the diver who nearly lost his life retrieving Dave’s body. However, both dived for my agency, and we have plenty of people in common. Serious respect for Dave and Don in the tech community. As a tech cave/wreck/expedition diver, I can definitely say that your life is on the line every time him hit the water.

@@waterlinestories get to instructor level with a rec agency. Then branch out to tech. Training is a constant, highly rigorous task, the dives range from difficult to almost impossible to you bought it. The sport came close to killing me twice. I didn’t give it up until I was over 60.

I taught rec for ten years. I loved it. Never got into the technical side. I just never felt the need. But now while I research these stories I've developed a lot of respect the the technicalities and become more intrigued. Thanks for sharing your experience

Go 50ft underwater open water diving and lose all air and BCD deflation. Your dead.

Yes! When I first heard the track, I had no idea what it was about. After researching it, I found I couldn't listen to the track anymore, knowing what I was hearing. The music was so good that it really did recreate the sensation of a man drowning in the dark, and it haunted me.

Thanks for saying so.

Its a good point. When I was a young instructor some 25 years ago I was diving an inland lake in South Africa. The team were an ex navy diver, the owner of the land who knew and dived the cave system in the lake often and a group of other industry experts. The guys decided to dive the 46 meter deep cave and I said no. Obviously nothing happened but I remember feeling left out. But to this day, I dont regret saying no. When I learned to dive, my instructor said frequently that you get old divers and you get bold divers but not old, bold divers. I hadnt dived to 46 meters and I hadnt dived a cave before. I just didnt feel comfortable. Now Im 43 and have about 2000 dives and I am starting to feel ready for doing some more challenging dives. But I want the training and team to do it with.

@@waterlinestories I've only done one cave dive..its was with a group of commercial diver on a bit of a bus mans holiday. For me and my buddy to do a 30 meter deep 180 meter penatration dive took 3 dive planners..4 rescue divers ..1 hyperbaric chamber.. 3 rescue boats..4 trucks ( 3 compressors 1 on 2 spare) and a gas Bank with 72 hours of breathing gas. ) If the dive manager said stop stop stop...we stop and it home time. I got about 40 meter in and got stop stop stop. On the surface it was found that there was an issue with one of the 3 gas mix monitors. When the the dive supervisor ( god ) say no.. we stop. Yes we could of continued..we could of made it back. That night we had a few beers and a bbq. There was a spare seat and place at the table..whos that for.. Thats for Jerome.. he died because no one said no May all you dive be good ..the water clear.. and the storys after be good.

Yeah that's the right kind of planning. Sometimes it takes a closer to home Jerome to make it sink in. Thanks for sharing

🤣

Yeah. Not sure I would cope

On the dotted line………………….. That’ll be $250 000 please. 😂

Yep.

If he was digging in sediment then his vis would have gone to zero. I wonder if his rehearsals factored this in with a blanked out face mask ? Or if it was planed in as an abort trigger. All of the planning and briefing documentation they would have drawn up would make an interesting read - has it ever been revealed ? There would most certainly have been documentation of this type.

Thanks, I really appreciate that

Dave himself only had 333 dives. Their hubris lead this mission and its results.

It depends on the type of experience you have, but in general a starting support diver doesn't need that much experience. In fact it might be better to have little experience and the project builds the diver up the way they want them to be. That is how the GUE came about, to support the WKPP by establishing first a test, and eventually the full training structure to build up support and expedition divers.

Yep - I’m an AOW certified and have over 100dives, many in U.K. cold water, I agree 200dives is not much of a record, there’s only so much you can learn from each dive and only so much experience you can acquire during those trips. The type of technical dive in a cave with no floor would be a ‘buddy on watch per person’ and even then it seems incredibly difficult work environment. Obviously very dangerous coz people died, which is a total tragedy.

OK, I hadnt seen that in any reports. Thanks for sharing

@@waterlinestories check out the book “diving into darkness”

Thanks I'll check it out

Yes I suppose that’s true

Yes it’s a complex task

Thanks. I think I’ll take that as the highest compliment

Excellent. Thanks for watching

True

Possibly. There are some big marine engineering companies that make this kind of kit. One that I know is JFD Global.

It's a good reason to HAVE DIVE BUDDIES... Top ways to pass time is "chat"... It's only a bit dubious, but ventriloquists have practiced for AGES to be able to talk without moving their lips or jaws, so you're doing about that same thing only with a mouthpiece in the way... It takes a little getting used to, adjustments to vocabulary, but you get there... AND you talk about the dive, concerns... whatever... It IS largely meditative... AND it can help to think of mental exercises to pass the time... Coming up alone, because a dive buddy's lost, though... That's probably on the list of the top 5 WORST feelings in the world. You only leave them behind because you HAVE to... or you'd only make two bodies to recover. I can't think of any way to feel smaller, more pathetic, or more alone than sitting through deco' stop after deco' stop, alone... in the dark... with nothing but the guilt of leaving your buddy... and your own inner demons to keep you company... It's the self control and precision as much as anything that draws people to it. There IS the frontier and exploration aspect, too, of course... BUT diving is a very Zen exercise. The fact is that a HUGE lot of people even enjoy cave diving regularly without issue. The stories coming out, especially the horror stories, are actually more of a result of the shear numbers of people attracted to the sport... AND not for nothing, but this particular story is as much about two separate guys PUSHING THE LIMITS past the cutting edge of tech' to make records... One was after "deepest dive" and the other was after "deepest body recovery"... Chasing clout is a good way to lose perspective, and losing perspective when you're diving is a good way to die. ;o)

It's the depth the adds to your decompression time.

They may have been worried about it coming apart on the ascent?

@cerebralm it was in a dive suit so that wouldn't have happened.

His head came off in the body bag. They didn’t want it to fall to pieces.

@waterlinestories he never got in the bodybag lol

Tentacles of the deep pulling you in. Mwahaha...

True. It is not possible to recover the bodies from the death zone. They knew what they were getting into. The mountain is their grave. Regarding the trash though, it is a huge problem for the local population. The trash poisons their water supply. At this point, people should be forced to attend 5 cleanup climbs for every attempt to climb Mt Everest. That would help with overtourism and with the trash problem.

@@annalang5687 I would say tourist climbs should stop. The issue with cleanup is that just bringing your own trash back would result in most people who currently climb being unable to do so. While I don't think thats a bad thing. It sets the tone that just bringing your own trash back is a specialty ability that few posses. Now add bringing not just your own trash back, but that of others. How much could the top 10% of climbers bring back with them? I don't know, you'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable than me. What I do know, is that with the amount of trash up there, it would take decades of nothing but cleanup climbs to actually clean up the mountain. In that time you are putting every single one of that top 10% of climbers at significant risk of death just to bring their own trash plus that of one other person back. Keep in mind, it's not like there are just trash bags piled up like a landfill, the trash is spread out over the entire climb in individual pieces. You have to walk to each and every piece to put it in a bag, that can double the amount of supplies you need to carry just to bring back the waste from another person. If you lose one of your few 10% of climbers, not only do you lose someone who can clean, but you just left another person+ worth of trash on the mountain. It's sad, but the best solution to the trash problem on Mt. Everest is to just leave it all there and stop the tourism. However, that will also demolish Nepal's tourist industry and you will impact every single person living there by essentially cutting their primary means of income. Imagine banning tourism from Miami, imagine the devastation. It's not a simple problem unfortunately.

​How about a tax on each Everest expedition. That would be paid for the mass / weight of trash deposited back at a base depot. (And then helicoptered out to a recycle/ landfill area.) With an amount specified for a body or a bottle deposited at the depot. I bet a lot of sherpas would take that up to get extra pay.

That it is

Thanks I appreciate that

Yep

Ghosts...duh

Respect

RIP Dave & Dion

Clearly you have not heard of Ed Sorenson

@@presidentslaughter4685 Yeah. That guy's alive

Dave Shaw was good but I wouldn’t say he was even in the top 10

Nah, you are not wrong, if dave had a partner in the recovery it would be save for him less time needed and all

It was the deepest dive in the world at the time. Who did you have in mind to rescue him? With another 30 or so staged tanks on hand for their decompression too.

In that state the body would possibly have pulled apart. So you would end up with body parts floating about. Best to keep it all intact

@@waterlinestories I thought about that possibility. But wouldn’t the dry or wetsuit kept all the body parts contained? The risk and the challenge of putting a body in a body bag at that depth, stirring sediment, using too much effort seems something not worth the risk. Once interred or cremated, a body falls apart anyway. Positive identification could have been done via dna testing. That is my main issue with this. Clipping a couple of carabiners to the bcd would have been simpler. The risk to recover a body shouldn’t be lower than the risk to rescue a living perso? Anyway, great videos, great delivery and information. I watch them all in a few days. Would love a series on the NORD STREAM 2 sabotage. Speculations, hypothesis, if a country like Ukraine could have pulled it off, if the US navy divers used saturation diving, or rebreathers, how long it might have taken, how it could be repaired and cleaned inside. Etc. it could be multiple episodes.. You could contact reporter Seymour Hersh, who broke the story, and interview him. He is talking on several KZfaq and media channels in the USA and Europe.

Yes I see your point on retrieving the body. For me I would never just left him there. I wouldn't have been so deep anyway. If I recall, when his body came up in the body bag, his head had severed from his body. He was in a wetsuit. I'm just writing a script for Nord stream based on Seymour Hersch's article. I had not thought to contact him but I might do that. It's a few weeks out though. I've got a number of videos in production ahead of that one but I am looking forward to releasing it. Thanks for watching.

@@waterlinestories it would probably good for Hersh to get corroboration from a diving professional like yourself. Also discussing the technical aspects of it. Another interesting point about the nord stream 2 sabotage is the environmental impact. The Biden administration is pushing green energy, and then they cause a major spill? It seems the typical hypocrisy. There are so many fascinating elements in the nord stream 2. The topic is very politicized in the US. So an analysis from a different point of view would be interesting. A Norwegian channel posted a video of their underwater drone showing the damage.

@@waterlinestories so news in recently puts russia sabotaging nordstream to pressure germany into dropping support for ukraine might want to make a redaction or update vid on that US sabotage dive you theorised XD

Thanks I don't think I was specific enough about them being different sites or that Bushmans hole is a sink hole. The point I was making about the asbestos mine is that is how Dave met Don

Thanks, I really appreciate that

His equipment didn't fail. He suffered the same death as Deon; CO2 poisoning caused by over exeterion from his panic and extreme narcosis. To my understanding rebreathers need steady, calm breathing to work properly.

I think some people get so focused on the challenge that all sensibility goes out the window. Thanks for watching

@@waterlinestories Yep, obviously being narced causes overconfidence, one more step in the accident chain.

The moment that the body started unexpectedly floating, any reasonable person would have aborted

There IS a concept in Occupational Safety circles, called "Normalized Negligence"... In the Occupational Safety environment, this is where someone takes the guard off a tablesaw once, to do a certain series of cuts or dado's, and then replaces it... Then someone else has a similar situation, and takes it off again... and the third time around, they just LEAVE it off. Once they find out that it's not any different cutting ordinary cuts than it was with the guard, they shrug it off, and in spite of other "reasonable people" warning that it's dangerous, it stays off the saw. This is where negligence gets normalized... The guys in the shop get USED to seeing a saw with whirling blades straight up in the air, WIDE OPEN, and nobody questions it. Everybody KNOWS not to put their fingers or hands into the blades... They KNOW not to reach over the top of the saw... SO for months or even years, they "get by with it"... Until they don't... and maybe it's just a case of kick-back... maybe a rosin-y bit of pine catches just right and jerks a hand through it... maybe someone loses balance... but when an accident happens, there ARE whirling blades, WIDE OPEN to the shop and sticking STRAIGHT UP into the air to catch it... all of it... In the beginning, these extreme sports SEEM dangerous. There IS a thrill, however subtle when you're down there... It's a thrill sitting on a motorcycle at 90 mph, too... IN THE BEGINNING. ALL too quickly, though, it becomes "normal". It's just a thing you do. You get used to the light fading away... the cover of a cave overhead... the hazards of silt and keeping the guide line in sight... or in your hand. You build a working knowledge over time of literally everything. Even those BIG-ASS charts about deco' times and gas ratios get fixed into memory. That's how experience WORKS... It also gets NORMAL for you to feel weightless and alone... tiny... BUT you can't function on fear 100% of the time, and with no reasons to feel bitten in the ass, you get accustomed to it... I think we need to have the conversation about "Normalized Hazards" rather than acting like it's ONLY in the work place that people get complacent. When you're used to it, it doesn't seem scary at all to sit on something that weighs more than a half ton with upwards of 200 horsepower and capable of 200 mph... You'll happily grumble about "the g** d*** helmet laws" while your T-shirt flaps in the wind on the way down the highway in shorts and flip flops... ;o)

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 As a middle-aged biker for 10 years, I consider myself a BEGINNER, and that everyone on the road is out TO KILL ME. Stay frosty.