I think before rubbishing other kit designers work, one would need to look at the original Troels Gravesen " 8008 corner " design on his web site. The one Danny is looking at is a redesigned cabinet built by the customer, that fails badly in more ways than one. This unit should not be compared at all with Troels original design, when in fact may have worked well for what it was designed for. Besides Danny's vid pointing out the flaws and corrections ( I agree with ) the other option ( probably most obvious ) I would point out to the customer, rebuild the cabinet to the original specifications and keep the rest as is, then make a decision !

Taking apart other peoples work (literally and figuratively) has become a significant part of Danny's business model. It is what it is. In Danny's defense, any sort of decorum in this area of hi-fi went out the window long ago. There are forums and YT channels galore with bloviation and criticizing of others speaker designs.

cheers , hope have some of you thought on the kick start proyect towards tuning!

I just spent $50 on 2 6.5" plastic basketed pyle DVC subs, yup, Pyle.... they sounded horrible at first! Then I built a mini vented cabinet for them and they just woke up! So impressed, Im planning to buy 2 more and build them into a butcher block coffee table in a "dual opposed" sealed setup and juice em with a 500 watt dayton plate amp. I think the results will be extremely positive : )

An excellent informed guide to bracing with aspects I was unaware of. Until I heard speakers without boxes, I never knew the amounts of box colouration I was always hearing, they were panel e/stats of 3 different designers, my fave being s/h imported 4 panel large e/stats by Accustat, full range each & driven from their dedicated valve energisers come power amps which sat on the low shelves backside, with their valve anodes wired directly onto the panel units stators, Gr8 sound but the sub 60'ish hertz bass drops out needing a sub I could never seamlessly blend in, so they're stashed in spare bedroom with some others, they made me think O.B. normal coned speakers may be my final ever ideal speakers with real bass, till then, I'd like to hear extremely well damped versions of Box speakers I deemed "too good to sell for what they fetch" like Celestion 2-way long ribbon hybrid boxes (Cel' 3000's) which cross over at 900'htz, a lot for a woofer / mid but they did sound Gr8 for their s/h priced sound but boxy bass that I now think are worth damping to the hilt, in the style hear explained, with minimal box-volume reduction. If I could get my Tannoy D.C.'s cones re edge- terminated, they would be my prime candidate for all this treatment, esp' with their thin wooden walled cabinets like they have. All panel ribbons or e/stats I've owned all disappoint me in the deeper bass, which somewhat destroys the sense of the size of venue a quartet or symphony orchestra or a band plays in, for just 1 shortfall of deeper or cab- resonance' from the deeper frq' extra' air-moving notes resonating cab walls. I heard that sound moves 4 or 5 times slower through helium, but can't think of a way to send the rear wave into a sealed cab of pure helium & regular long haired sheep's wool!!

Hi Danny! I totally agree with you that cabinet design, rigidity and placement are essential to a realistic musical enjoyment. I have seen so many good quality parts being put in a flimsy cabinet with sometimes no damping at all. Contrary to a musical instrument where the casing is to vibrate to amplify the sound wave, on a speaker, the cabinet must be inert to not add its own vibrations with the ones produced by the drivers. This is also one of the reason why modern cabinet design use a narrow baffle to avoid surface reflections. Thanks again for the education value of this video! Sometimes, things must be repeated again and again before it becomes common knowledge. BYE !

Thanks

Thanks for the explanation on the cabinet pitfalls. I wonder if laminating mdf from the outside would help. A new layer of baffle could get rid of that ridge on the baffle edge.

Outstanding job again and thanks for the tips and explanations.

7:10 I fixed up a pair of old speakers by using cheap drivers, Peerless woofer and Dayton tweeter and it sounded decent enough to me. So indeed you don't need expensive drivers.

Great vid Danny! I like doing ladder bracing front to back, top and bottom of each driver. Rails and stiles.

I would love to see a video comparing identical drivers and crossover in 2-3 cabinets of differing quality levels. There is a lot of measurements of finished speakers online, not many that focus on specific variables.

Danny - for bracing cut from 3/4" MDF and 45 deg end cuts. I would look at gluing from sides to back and front but also glue the braces themselves together so the side of the brace going forwds is glued to the side of the brace going to the back panel. that will add a bit more rigidity to the joints to the side panel. I'd also look at using polyurethane construction adhesive as that will also have a bit of inherent damping on account of its chemistry.

Have you done the Triangle Borea BR08? I have a pair and been in love with them for a couple years now, but would love to know what I could do to even improve them.

Would it help by placing hi density foam on the front baffle or even leather or suede? Really enjoy these videos... Kind regards from Turkey 👍

you can teache us to do better speakers, some content for who want to make theyr on speakers , like design and materials etc.thanks for share everything in here .

I'm on the fence with Danny on my Epos ES 11s. I thought I had to replace them, BUT I got a used Copland CTA 405 tube amplifier to them (50w tube power). Now they sound amazing! These speakers have minimal crossovers. But maybe if I DO replace them, maybe go for a single driver speaker like Tannoy? I don't know.

Just a thought. Some people would possibly love a speaker design with higher quality (slightly more expensive) drivers than the ones you always use. Something that’s from say Scan-Speak instead of drivers that you buy in bulk or from other loudspeaker manufacturers that have a tonne of drivers that they need to off-load. I personally would love to see a design based on Scan-Speak Discovery line of drivers with their new D3004/602200 tweeter. Sometimes customers want a more premium offering.

Never knew that (phase shift issues) about silver coated copper. Wow. Some companies make "jumper cables" to connect the terminals of bi-wire capable speakers for those who are not into biwiring and those cables are yep, silver coated copper. Maybe a small 4" length wouldn't do any harm, but why chance it? Good information.

I'm Norwegian, and that woofer looks like a SEAS build for the Danish Truels Gravesen kit speaker constructor. It's an SEAS Excel based woofer made at Gravesens wishes for higher efficiency. I believe he wanted a woofer for small watt tube amplifiers. Like the woofers in Audio Note speakers. Audio Note speakers for tube amps are build to stand in the corners of the room. So this probably was Gravesens aim with this kit ?

When are the 8" releasing?

Question about No Rez. I see it’s about 2 inches thick, which reduces the internal dimensions of the box. Do you compensate by building a larger box?

Would mass loaded vinyl be a good box liner? I ask because I have a 25 foot roll of 1/4” that cost me a small fortune.

Kits intrigue me but my ADS L810 sound so good

When measuring the tweeter without a network - it won't damage the tweeter sending low frequencies to it?

Well, the baffle edge reflection can be easily corrected adding an identical baffle face to remount the drivers then if handy he can round over the cabinets edge. And bracing is a no brainer.

I'd been interested in this design, not everyone has the luxury of placing the speakers 3+ feet from the wall. It's a shame that there aren't more designs that give decent sound with close to wall placement.

The risk I see in building kit speakers is mainly about their tonality which you cannot test before buying and which depends on your room and equipment. In this case I'd have braced the cabinet and simply applied suitable DSP filters on my Wiim streamer. If I bought a crossover kit from Danny I still wouldn't know if I liked that tonality. That DSP approach does of course not work if the crossover or drivers have some fundamental flaws.

How bad does a phase shift caused by silver plated copper wire work out? In what frequency the phase shift happens?

Can the dowels be attached just with wood glue? Do they have to be clamped when they're drying? Should they be attached with both glue and screws?

Wow

what do you think about the Devore Fidelity orangutan 0/96 and O/93 that's a 15k dollars speaker without bracing or any form of cabinet bracing only mdf and plywood. im building a exact replica of those with better bracing better crossover parts and design and im gonna no Rez the whole cabinet

Troels Gravesen kits!

Great Video

If the speaker is built to Troels Gravesen's original specifications (drawings) the Speaker will sound wonderful if your measurements are wrong then and not built as planned then it won't be good just like a GR-Research kit not built to specifications.

I only use 12in high excursion woofers when I make my DIY speakers and I use 1in thick HDF for the whole cabinet. 6.5in midrange and a 2in soft dome tweeter.

I'd build a new cabinet the right way and add a super tweeter.

I built a pair of your Criton 2TDX tower speakers with the superior crossovers a couple of years ago to pair with the Elekit 8600S 300B tube amplifier kit I built. I didn't use your MDF flat pack cabinets you sell for the kit but built the cabinets myself from 1 inch Red Oak and used 1 inch no rez on the inside back, sides and top of the cabinet. I also put 1/8 inch thick 3M asphalt sound deadening panels inside before installing the no rez. Is it possible to dampen a cabinet too much? They sound very good to me but these are the nicest speakers I've ever owned. I did a 3/4 inch round over on all the top and side outside edges and also the oval ports for the interior cabinet braces. Instead of using the subwoofer ports you sent I made my own out of 2 inch ABS black plastic pipe as I didn't want the plastic flange of the original ports showing. I cut out 2 inch port holes in the back of the cabinets 3/4 inch rounded them and cut a 1/4 inch deep recess on the insides to fit the abs port tube and made wooden brace's for the other end of the tubes inside the cabinet. I half rounded them as well. I sanded the outsides to 600 grit and finished them with 100% Tung oil. They look very nice and it took me almost two months to finish them. I am very happy with the way they turned out and how nice they sound. Thanks for making great speaker kits. 🙂

I have been a long-time follower and supporter of your work, Danny. I love your kits, and I appreciate your generosity and knowledge-sharing. However, I must express my disappointment with this video. I feel that you could have used a different speaker to demonstrate your points about inferior cabinet work and resonances. While it's true that the response is not perfect and the design work may not appeal to everyone, showcasing a customer's failed attempt at this particular kit to promote your own products seems incredibly unfair. For the record, I have built two Troels Gravesen kits, and I absolutely love them. Troels offers incredible support and is a really nice and humble person. Given the recent issues at Tekton, I would have expected that you, as part of this community, would understand that there is no tolerance for bullying and veiled defamatory behaviour. People can see through this stuff. I hope you will consider this feedback moving forward.

It's a poorly build DIY cabinet. I would just build another cabinet and do it correctly (with bracing and no-res etc) rather than band aide the cabinet.

I note that in many of your videos and tear downs, you frequently refer to phase issues being a real problem to coherent sound reproduction. Yet, Floyd Toole, in many of his videos and printed material, clearly and authoritatively states that regardless of how well a room is treated, there will always be reflections. These reflections will guarantee that phase issues will be inaudible. Only with top notch, closed back headphones, will/maybe phase issues could be detected. Your comments would be welcome.

This here was perfect opportunity to show, how your No rez is working...

The cabinet is brutally ugly. I would keep the decent parts and start with a new cabinet.

Hmmm, seems like my comment got deleted. I'll try again Not all Troels Gravesen are equal- obviously. I have made 6 of his creation and regard him as very talented and a bliss for the DIY community.

It is probably a poor attempt at a live cabinet design, that is a legitimate way of tuning speaker sound. It's a different approach to the attempts at creating "dead" cabinets. Although I know you won't accept this method of speaker design there are successful examples of such, including the Spendor BC1.

Be careful if you go hunting for Troels

Danny: hope you guys are okay. I saw that there were tornadoes in your area last night.

So a very good designer makes a kit including very good drivers and specific cabinet instructions. Somebody buys the kit and builds the cabinet ignoring the design and doing a rookie job and the "issue" is the design ??? I will rather buy Troels Gravesen kit since I trust him more, and I agree with his excellent driver choice, and superlative cabinet design - but, I will choose to go active with Trinnov and fly over the "cuckoo nest" of the passive crossover that is simply non-sense nowadays.

I gave up building speakers. Building amplifier's is considerably easier.

Danny - your arrogance and way of criticizing and bullying without backing up your claims with facts is an unfortunate trend in 🇺🇸

A bass should be 8 inches max, why... too much space in the woofer makes it difficult to control the bending of the material from center to bass edge [ such as cardboard ] with a good mid and a tweeter, that's my opinion. a good speaker the size of the cabinet and insulation is certainly also important, when they are ready let me know lol;l

Troels Graveson definitely knows audio speakers. But, lets not be too hard on his designs. Especially when someone builds the kit incorrectly. John Krutke he extensively tested comercialy available drivers and found their weak points and posted for the DIY world to use . I believe a person considering buying a speaker kit should reserch the parts used before making the purchase. All the speakers drivers from reputable manufacturers post the T.S parameters. From those parameters it will atleast give you a clue to if the designer is using the driver within its capabilities.