Get the subs here: lddy.no/1jqms 7% off of Savard with the code DIYAUDIO

Was running a 12” in my trunk and it was great to rattle everything on the outside of the car. Switched to an 8” mounted (in a custom box) to the underside of the rear shelf firing directly into the cabin. Sound is better both inside and out.

One of the equalizing factors a small sub has has to do with acoustic coupling. In a standard sealed or reflex application the coupling efficiency isn't all that high. If you horn loaded a cabinet or use a column of air to dampen the speaker at a specific set of frequencies you can help to make up for the smaller size of the driver. Of course this is in theory. To do it correctly requires a lot more work than using them in a sealed/vented system. Truthfully though, the same applies from larger drivers too. I made some custom tuned systems for a friend that used two 4" woofers to generate more bass than a single 12" system. With proper tuning along with using factors such as the internal resonant effects of the vehicle cab, you can achieve some great results with small drivers.

I'm a bass player. Multiple, 4 to 8 10" drivers are considered ideal because it allows low bass frequencies with tight bass and they can handle a lot more power than 2 15". The lowest bass frequency of a standard tuned 5 or 6 string instrument is 32 HZ. The small interior space of a car or truck allows good bass response from small speakers because pushing a lot of air isn't necessary. The same speaker in a room would sound pretty bass shy.

I really like to see how your delivery of the subject matter has improved over that last few years. Your knowledge and candor shine through more and more with each progressive video. Thanks for some great content!

Even with that high fs, small subs don't have any issues playing lows. Box tuning and airspace are the keys. MB Enclosures routinely has pairs of 8 in subs doing 140s at below 30hz.

Your videos amaze me every time! I struggle to figure out how to clearly explain a complex topics but you always explain it in such a easy to understand but yet still technical way. All this to say I learned a lot from this video and keep up the great work!

I put a 6.5 subwoofer in my concrete mixer cab on 300 watts and people can't believe I'm running such a small subwoofer. I unfortunately bottomed out the sub too many times on 25 hertz rebassed music and now the cone slaps the voice coil. Great video Justin as always.

Even if the Fs is high, sometimes small subwoofers can be tuned in the 40 Hz region which is about the lowest extent of 'musical' bass, apart from synthesized bass. And if you've just got room for a tiny cube sealed box, you can still apply equalization and work together with your vehicle's cabin gain function to get 'flat' bass to a low frequency, it will just be excursion-limited or power-limited.

When I started in the hobby in the 80’s I noticed that most sub manufacturers used the same basic motor assembly for their 8”, 10”, and 12” drivers. To my uneducated brain it seemed that the motor pushing the lightest cone would be the most accurate. At the time I found that the best compromise between accuracy and deep bass were the 10s. I chose to go with 4 8” subs for space consideration and to gain back some of the deep bass. Always being an sq guy I have stuck to 8” drivers in a proper sealed box and plenty of power to this day.

Great video as always man. As a diy:er myself this is very usefull. Thank you and keep it up dude 👍👍

I have a 2021 Ford F150 and I have 4 front facing 8" subs in a custom Skar sub box. It sounds great with a Pioneer GM-D9701 amp at 2 ohms. I've done some testing with 2 10's and 2 12's, but for everyday driving, the 8's are perfect for all genres of music.

Great video! I am looking forward to the building and testing of these "woofers"😉.

Your videos have come a long way. There's alot of great info in this one. Very helpful to newcomers and people who have been doing this for years and always guess at things. Now they can understand insted of guessing. 😎👍👍

For what it's worth, we have an old 1994 Explorer with a factory JBL system. The four door speakers don't go much below 150hz. The little 6.5" factory sub in the rear corner does quite a good job filling the low end. Of course it doesn't blow anyones hair around lol but impressive for so little driver all by itself. Also a friend had an 1987 Pontiac Fiero with a factory 5.25" sub located up under the passenger side of the dash. The little thing did a very respectable job with the bottom end! (Fun facts that won't change your life!) Great content on the little subs! Looking forward to more stuff.

Great video! Ive been looking for more info on small subs. I want to replace a single 12 with two 6.5s to get more trunk space back. Looking forward to the next video!🤘

Small subs are cool, for the intended purpose, but i also like using them with passive radiators . Even more space , easily adjustable tuning, and more cone area. Not as much of a peak in dbs as ported but a much better bandwidth and still a good amount of bass.

I did a 1989 Toyota extended cab pickup with four 6 3/4" Fosgate power series coaxials running in full range with 250 watts per Channel two speakers per door with strengthening and dampening in the doors and yes it sounded extremely good well balanced and behaved but still one single 12 would easily outperform all four! but it was an experiment as to not have a 12 inch sub laying around taking up space.. .

Nice vid! I like horn boxes with these smaller woofers, especially in crew cabs and if you can only do one because of box size then its worth the sacrifice imo. Keep bangin 🤘

I've been a fan of small subs and small sub arrays since the 80s.

I just built a box for two CT Sounds Meso 6.5" subs, box is tuned between 38 - 39hz. I wasn't going for spl, more for low end extension. 2013 Ford Explorer.... the factory Sony system sounds really good for stock, but the subwoofer lacked authority. The two Meso's paired with a 400w amp provide enough output to energize the interior of the vehicle without permeating outside, causing unwanted rattles. When doors are closed, you can hear the door speakers through the doorskins, but when you open the doors, you can hear, and FEEL the bass. No need to be the loudest anymore, foundation is strong now...... quality over quantity 😉

My 4 Image Dynamics ID8s play loud and low with only 1k watts. Love them!

I always thought a sound system should bring a sound into your house or your vehicle like you're actually sitting in the concert you're listening to, that's what a true stereo should do. I built a few that are actually did that. It's so awesome you put in in that day it was a cassette and you actually thought you were at the concert. Most people have systems that are going to cause hearing loss.

Funny first vehicle you mentioned is 4 door pickup lol. I got 14 sierra, Im running Skar VD10. Set up as downfire in my custom center console that also hosts my refrigerator. Overland vehicle under back seat used as storage.

Most music doesn't actually go that low so you don't need a big subwoofer, also there's the fact that many people dislike the additional noise of the car rattling along the sub. Sure if you want to have a rattlebox that turns heads wherever you go then sure big subs are ideal, but if you actually want to improve the sound quality smaller subs should work well.

I used to be a 12s and 15s type, now i use 10s, the box is what matters most in my opinion, in the right box you can get louder than a couple 15s in a bad one. got a ds18 zr10 d4 on a taramps md1200.1 2 ohm in a 1.8 cubic ft box tuned to 31hz and its able to float a bag from 26-34hz

I love my bass! Great video. I have four Yamaha CXS18XLF 18" passive subwoofers in home rig. Size matters.

i tried recently to get a ported 8" with a custom folded port with radiused inlet and outlet to sound as good as a 10" in the same space of .5cuft and it was a bust, the port noise and less tight response made the 10" sound better by comparison even if on paper the 8" might have seemed best

1st rule in car audio lol 😆 Use what fits. Merry Christmas 🎅 🎄 Justin.

I've been impressed with the numbers of Sevard's subwoofers and hope to purchase one soon for my vehicle. Curious, what about magnet size and the performance of a subwoofer? It seems the larger the magnet the more watts the sub can handle. Correct?

Cabin gain is an amazing boon to small subs in a small space. Passive radiators are mega helpful for small applications.

Great stuff 😎 Justin

Solid video mate. 👌

hi, I want to know your advice. what size should i make my 18 inch subwoofer cabinet with low setting. Fs-26.1 Vas-152.2 Qts-0.33

I love this. Thank you!

Nice to see you repping savard.

28” 2” External port is what I made work with a sundown x6.5 in an under seat enclosure .27cuft

them sundown sa v3 are pretty good

Liked the video - Thanks Savard!

Good information man

Sir i have a question that what should be the tuning frequency in winisd which is listed in box section and how will it affect in audio output? Plss reply!

Remember having the Sundown SA 8 v.3 it was an absolute beast 🔥

You gain 3db in sensitivity at 1watt with 2 driver's and another 3db as you can also throw double the power at the setup :D Good video! I got 2 SB23MFCL-4 (new revision) in a huge tapped horn and they generate so much air pressure till 13hz at home that i physically can't stop my windows or living room door from shaking even if i lean against it🤣🤣🤣

Love these videos, thanks

If you want the woofer to play well below its resonant frequency, you need an acoustic labyrinth cabinet. With a ported cabinet, you would want the port to be somewhat higher than the resonant frequency, as not to produce immense volume at one low note. The old "frequency response" was originally plus or minus 3 dB, while "frequency range" would be plus or minus 10 dB (2x as loud or half as quiet as other frequencies. I play 5 string basses, and have an 800 watt stack with a 4x10 vented cabinet that can go down to 35 Hz -3 dB, and a vented 15, which I would bet can only go down to about 50 Hz -3 dB. I'm pretty sure my deep B is below with either of these, so I aim for power, depth and punch. Since I want punch, I need a lot of higher bass notes. Deep bass is great, but it's nest in movies and gaming. Both my bass cabs are about the same size.

Had 4 6.5inch DDs, sounded incredible - played all the way down to 20hz and was musical at the same time. Multiple small subs in a quality box is a great option for anyone wanting to retain space and have an awesome system

SAS bazookas 6.5 were amazing

Went from two 6" massive subs in a ported box under the backseat of the pick up truck to two 12" flat infinitys in a sealed box and it just improved all round. No replacement for displacement

Have you compared ported to non-ported with passive radiator(s)?

As the old saying goes there's no replacement for displacement.

Tried Hertz MPS250 10' in my polo, cause had only 14L of space in the spare wheel (made a circular custom box in it). I gotta say I love it very much. Some pieces in the car rattle when it plays full tilt with 500w amp. It is not going very low tho, I think 35hz tops.

i still have 4 dayton audio rs225-8 drivers with aluminium cones laying around, waiting for two high sealed boxes. sealed and big enough to get a smooth roll-off at the lower end. no more vented boxes for me. with two class-d amps and an active crossover, i will be fine. two fosi audio amps should deliver much more power than i will ever need in my living room.

Thanks 👍

Savard Rap great bang for the buck 👍 of course I prefer bigger subs whenever possible as all subs will get low, but bigger are more audible on low notes.

Genuine question, trying to learn. If the smaller subs have a free air resonant frequency in a higher hertz range, are we talking a significant difference in how hard they have to work in a low tuned box compared to a sub with a lower natural resonant freguency? Is this difference seen in metered wattage output or how do I test this theory? I built a 28hz tuned ported box with two Skar EVL6.5’s for a friend and it was surprisingly low and windy, but subs always got hot at 200 watts RMS. Shortened port to 34hz and could play over rms all day no heat. I never understood why since I wasn’t exceeding mech x-max and I was at recommended power and not playing below tuning. Maybe the high free air fs of 61hz in a low tuned box explains it.

I run a 6.5" 606D on my pedicab. I might be able to fit a 8-10" if I really tried. It does a pretty decent job though.

The Dayton dsc165 is pretty impressive if you have to go small. I have enjoyed mine quite a bit. Just had to re-tune my door speakers to make up for the 45-100hz range. Is it real life if there aren't any trade offs? Lol

Great video bro

Driver size really depends on what vehicle you have. I have a soundcore rave party 2, and find it too bassy inside a regular car. You need about 40-80W peak, so as long as your drivers are efficient, and can handle the power they suffice inside a car.

Yes, BUT: a car is an enclosed space which boosts very low frequency and makes it perfect to use a small sub as you can tune its enclosure to this small space or am I missing something here? BESIDES: I don't look so much at what Watt a speaker is rated at but I am more interested in High Sensitivity and Low Distortion over the intended range

what app do you use for box design?

my sundown x8v3's are slamming at 15hz thogh! just ported enclosure!

I have a Speaker Enclosure Patent and would possibly make for some interesting content and give my New design more exposure. Also can let me know the pros and cons of a spherical type design. Look forward to hearing from you.

My sub is a 10'' sub and takes 2000rms at 1 ohm and it play at 20hz, am happy with it, 10s for life 😎

Funny to see this video pop up a week after i just put 4 8" Kickers in a forward firing box under the back seat of my 2021 Silverado.

1:05. The first thing to go in driver built this way is the braid stitch into the damper/spider. If assembled properly, they'd last a lot longer. But, no, time and money wins out.

The Savard hi q 6.5" are super impressive. I had 4 of them in my 74' elco. Made a custom box tuned to 30Hz and they get down! They flex my car crazy. Running them at 4 ohms on a d4s jp33. Now I have Savard high output 10's running at 1 ohm. And god dammnnn.

When i played bass, i used a 2x10" and a 1x15". Gave plenty of sound to keep up with the blaring guitarists and i didnt lose anything on the far low end.

High FS is good for a low playing tapped horn

I have 2 10s one on 3000 watts thats 4 years old and a fresh recone breaking in on a fosgate 325.2 and no need for more. The 2nd one will be on 3000 watts eventually and I still have trunk room.

My sundown 10 u is 48hz fs but the enclosure its tuned 36 and it plays down to the high twentys so it plays from 29 to about 55 hz a very wide bandwidth

If you want to use them in some sort of horn box, they can be good, but price to displacement ratio with smaller subwoofers isn't as good. Or in a small box, a passive radiator might be more efficient than a long skinny port.

6-1/2 inch is decent size for a loudspeaker driver designed to produce frequencies from 35ish Hz-4500ishHz known as a midbass, midwoofer, or just woofer to match with a soft dome tweeter or a midrange and a tweeter for potentially better sound quality. Best automotive subwoofer size is between 10 to 15 inches. However there are some dual 6-1/2 inch floorstanding speakers that have amazingly deep bass despite the woofer doing double duty for subbass and midbass frequencies or even triple duty for subbass, midbass, and midrange frequencies and each speaker tower is rated around 150 to 250 watts and the sub bass SQ is better than a DB drive 6-1/2 inch automotive sub.

What software are you using for the box desin

I built a custom enclosure to Savard's specs (volume, not shape). I am running 2 8" HQ series subs powering them with an Audio Control LC-1.1500. They play pretty low and hit hard, but above 60Hz the output rolls off quickly, and by 90Hz is almost inaudible. Any idea what could cause this? I have verified it is not a crossover issue, I plotted input voltage to the box vs dB output. Power is there, audio output is not.

Hey y’all, any opinions on whether you’d prefer the performance from (1) 15” with a 6” vc, 240oz mag, and 25mm xmax, vs (4) 6” subs with 2” vc, 80oz magnets, and 7mm xmax. They would fit in a similar size box but the total vc, xmax, and magnet structures are greater values in the quad small sub setup so I presume the force generated is more violent with the multiple motors. Is there a drawback to either or benefits? Also considering that the multi sub setup can be wired as isobaric.

I have KIA picanto 2013, where to put it and how big the box should be pls? Planning on 8' or 10' subs.

We have already done this comparison. Two 12" drivers tend to win against one 18" driver because they often have a more powerful motor in relation to the MMS. This means that the 12" drivers are also capable of handling more power. However, you have to find 12" drivers that have just as much Xmax, which is quite difficult to find. Because the 12s tend to have a better mass/drive ratio, they generally sound much more precise. Overall, however, it makes no difference. If the TSPs were the same, it wouldn't make any difference whether you put two 12" drivers or one 18" driver in the same cabinet. So it depends more on the parameters than the driver size alone.

If you're concerned about box size and footprint putting two subwoofers together isobaric allows you to cut box volume requirement, still requires a long port though and port resonances become a problem. At that point you're basically needing to build a tapped horn design.

Hi. I watched a few of your videos and although you make it very easy to understand I still can't work out winisd to create the perfect box for my subwoofers. I want a ported box tuned to around 32hz for 4x12" Pyle bluewave plbw124 subs. Is there any chance if I send you my maximum dimensions you could mock a box up for me to make thanks willing to donate to your channel for your help.

what about if you have a heap of small subwoofers that equal the same cone area and the same excursion surely all the small ones will be better than one big one as it has a heap more coils driving the same amount of air

I don’t use small subs for 3 reasons. 1-Prone to suspension damage because they have to move a lot to make deep bass. 2- Fs (resonant frequency very high) (Although being so small would not be much of a problem for the amplifier to move the cone). 3- If needed in multiples to sound like a one bigger sub means a bunch of heavy magnets making my car scream for help.

Small drivers are inefficient at low frequencies. Even if you add more drivers to get surface area up, you will have more losses, distorsion and lower sensitivity than if you just started with a large driver of the same area from the beginning. It only makes sense if a larger driver doesn't fit where you want it (basically when smaller is your only option). Now, if you want your heavy, large, low FS sub to play high up into the mid bass (I dont know why you'd want that?) then you'd be better off with smaller drivers. Or, to be real; use the big sub to play very low frequencies and add mid basses for the mid bass where they are more efficient.

Is there such a thing as a dual voice coil, 8-inch mid-bass speaker? I have a Jeep Cherokee which has a space where this would fit but I haven't been able to find such a speaker.

Subs have come along way in the last 10 years or so especially being able to get loud and low with a small sub I have 2 8s under the seat of my truck and it plays into the mid 20's with ease and sounds way better than the 15 in my other vehicle

I love Savard! I have a Savard Hi-Q12” that just sounds off. At least for me in my late years. 😊 Never too loud, just compensating for previous hearing loss.

ABC box is a emergency fix for oh so cheap 10" element but Fs 58hz.. needs volume tho.

Its in box spec as well... if a subs in the rite box it can get low

greeting here in puerto rico we use pvc panel for making kitchens cabinet! i just did a pvc enclosure for a 23 old technics speaker, and sound amazing, but im a cabinet maker not a sound guy, i use 3/4- .65 density rhino pvc panel, i search youtube and didn't find a single video reference using pvc panel , so maybe its a good test for a audio diy guy like you to test!,

Ok so I have a CT Sounds Strato 8" sub in a ported box and it gets the 600 watts of RMS it can handle. What would be the best Sub to add to get the deep deep rumbling bass at the lower hertz to pair with this that would run at 600 watts rms?

One thing banks of small speakers provide is cone response. Why do you think 30 plus inch speakers don't get made any more? It's cone response, if the array is built correctly it will act like a much larger speaker but have the cone response time of a smaller speaker.

Smaller woofers will be faster than larger woofers. Therefore, smaller woofers will be more dynamic than larger woofers. Done right, you will get more slam out of smaller woofers. However, larger woofers will push more air. So comparing one small woofer to one large woofer will result in trade-offs. The solution, to have it all, is to have multiple small woofers. Then you get the speed / slam, and you get the volume of air that is pushed by a large woofer.

one way to deal with limited space , is to use isobaric setup. i prefer the smallest possible coupling chamber, drivers facing back to back. it helps a lot with linearity, and allso moving air hitting the basket , magnet etc.. well, its sealed in a cha,ber so far less is possible to be audible. basicly you can halve Vas, all other parameters remains the same for calculations. allso the dynamics of the setup change a lot, you get a miniscule amount more mass as you do move the coupling chamber air mass , but you get twice the motor force for the same area. my floorstanding speakers got this "upgrade". but, instead of 1 driver, i use 4 of them. boils down to a series + antiparallel config. speakers sharing a coupling chamber has to be wires antiparallel. 2 set of those is wired in series. thatway i got twice the power handling. i allso do not like traditional bass reflex setup. i prefer the veems style dual chamber ones. there is a very good reason for that, it adds a 2nd resonant freqvency. this allows even more powerhandling, as cone excursion is reduced. when compared to a single driver, the following is gained: - net cabinet volume is unchanged. - impedance curve in unchanged. - 2x the power handling - with a proper eq , the 4 driver setup will have its -3dbl point where the 1 driver setup had its -6dbl point - way better linearity - approx 1.4 times cone acceleration (that translates to otherwise unobtainable fidelity even if you don't care about audio stuff, its very noticeable) the following is lost: - needs 3 more drivers - more complex cabinet design - to take advantage of the extra low freqvency extentsion, eq has to be applied along with 2x the amplifier power - the total cabinet size will still be bigger than with a single driver, depending on setup that can be just a small increase, or an increase over 1.5 times some 10" -12" drivers in this type of tesup can indeed reach the 20hz -3dbl point. most recording formats don't even have anything under 20 hz as standard. i have not ever seen anything that can manage it, and is whitin reasonable size. its well whitin reason to aim for HALF the Fs of a single driver as a -3dbl point for the 4 driver setup. i bought some cheapo HiVi 6 inch speakers as midbass. and they do play very nice down to 30Hz at -3 dbl .

Where did you get that formula for fs from? Shouldn’t t be fs equal to sqrt(1\(MMS Cms))/(2pi) as with any other spring_mass system of order two and one degree of freedom?

I love 8" subs! I think they're most useful for getting similar cone area as a larger sub, in a smaller box, with more power handling. For example, 1 SA15v3 has a rated power handling of 1000W and takes a 3 cuft box. I could get a similar cone area and in this case similar volume displacement, with 4 SA8v3s. I would also get that with a rated power handling of 2000W and a box of 2.6 cuft.

Hey, what's up with the formula at 0:46? i mean, what is 50pi doing in the nominator there? The formula should be 1/(sqrt(...) * 2pi), as long as you use proper SI units. Yes, if you use different units (N/mm, grams) you will need a conversion factor somewhere, but whatever happens, how could pi had possibly moved to the nominator??

As a dj, I have for the last 30 years always gone for smaller subs due to problems with latency on bigger subs when beat-mixing.

My 30 years of building enclosures has shown me that more motor force per square inch and FAR better cooling makes it easy for quads to beat a single in the same available airspace! Diffraction imaging and power compression are the problems of larger drivers.

An F3 in the high 30's is only terrible if you exclusively listen to underground EDM, something tells me that if you're buying a pickup (or a "ute" here in Aus) the music you're listening to probably doesn't need that extra octave... smaller drivers have better transition response as well. But yeah, FWOOOM is cool though...

What kind of Programm does he use to „draw“ his speakerboxes?