You are absolutely correct about the 30 inch circle, and if I had that size target with me at the time I would have used it.I will probably take your advise and re-shoot as I too think the pattern is high right. Regarding "that size target doesn’t show you what you’re pattern is doing at all." I respectfully disagree, I wanted to see what my pattern looked like on a solid rest with the bead on the head of a duck sized target at those ranges. Doing so I was able to see how many hits were attainable on that size target at those ranges. The 30" circle pattern test will tell me where I need to hold for future shots (low and to the left possibly), thanks for the advise as I'm sure it will help with my shooting moving forward.

Ps. I steal the wife's wrapping paper for presents and cut to size, permanent market with 15 " string at center happy shooting

Glad you like them!

Thank you and I agree with you

Thank you for the comment and glad the video could help you.

Much Appreciated !

WF chokes are bigger diameter, F is M lead, Mod is LM or IC lead ect....

that how Understand the Kicks high flyer. My Kicks "Full" is also marked as 20 thou constriction, which is a normal Mod choke. @@mfstr

Thanks , I appreciate it. To be fair as its mentioned in some of the other comments below the targets where a bit small ( the size of a teal) and I was assuming the pattern was holding true to my bead......That was not the case and the Patternmaster was shooting a bit high and to the right which I have since adjusted my aim when hunting and notice I have been dropping a lot more birds. I would not have know that if I hadn't shot this video. Love my Patternmaster and it is what I run just about every hunt.

What setup are you running?

@@g7outdoors497 Remington v3 waterfowl pro with a Carlson's cremator mid range

I appreciate the suggestion.

The idea of the patternmaster is to drastically shorten the shot string, delivering more pellets on a moving target.

@@ronnietea3205 yes I believe that’s a bit of marketing hype imo from them. First I’ve seen tests showing that chokes don’t have too much of an effect on shot string lengths, secondly fast moving steel shot already has a pretty short shot string and I doubt if you’d see any difference in real world shooting.

thanks for the advise, I'll give it a try

I've been shooting the biggest shot I felt comfortable with for as long as I've been choosing my own shot, 3 in the timber and BB in the fields. I've started thinking I'd like to see how 5's would do in the timber haha. If I can find steel 5's. Kinda changed my thinking from "bigger shot does more damage" to "more shot may do more damage". Can't wait to find out

I haven't tried code black. I got a PM ER, or whatever the longest range is, and the pattern stays too tight for almost all of my shooting haha. With 3 1/2 Federal 3's it punched a hole smaller than my fist at 15yds and was about 25 inches at 40

I had more than enough confidence to kill geese out to 40 yards & absolutley folded ducks at over 60 with my 20 gauge because I patterned it. Ran every shell through it imaginable at longer distances. If the bird didn’t fall, it was because I missed. Nothing else.

Great suggestions and I will have to give them a try. Still pretty new to the waterfowl world and learning as I go. Thank you for watching and I appreciate the tips as I', sure they will help.

Thanks for the Tip, I just shot today with a larger 30" target and confirmed what you stated . I just got home changed out the shim...hopefully that will bring down the pattern. Thanks again

@@g7outdoors497 one thing to remember is your sight picture HAS to change for the shims to change point of aim, you should be seeing less rib, dont try to adjust your cheek weld to get the same sight picture you had before the shims, or the shims are pointless.

No problem

I appreciate the comment and agree with you. I did a follow up with a different brand and dialed in what my gun and choke like.

I just ordered 3 jebs. I will pattern them. Hope they are as good as they said they were

Thank you , I can try and get my hands on some Kents and see what i can do . I do have a video coming up with the Patternmaster Code Black Duck and Goose which I found out that they love the Hevi Hammer #4 shot. Subscribe and keep watching for the video. It should drop soon!

appreciate the info, i don't make it a habit of leaving my slide open. It could be possible but i rarely do it . never the less it is a great point and i will be sure to not practice that habit.

The factory chokes are labeled after leadshot patterns and are too tight for steel shot. For example, kicks chokes are labeled after steel load patterns, resulting that kicks full has less constriction than factory full.

i'll have to check it out

They have a disclaimer on their site acknowledging that their chokes bulge in certain guns. They call it a barrel problem where pattern master, kick's, and Rob Roberts don't have the same problem. Terror chokes are overpriced garbage that people should avoid

@@benblazek3305 They have the disclaimer on there for a reason.. I've been waterfowl hunting for 25 years & I shoot nothing but a 10ga for all my waterfowl hunting setups while I am goose hunting.. The .720 Terror Choke Tube is absolutely lights out devastating on geese shooting Federal Black Cloud in BB.. Now when I'm duck hunting you better believe I'm using my Pattern Master Code Black Duck shooting Federal Black Cloud in 3 inch #3's..

@@pahunter7816 yeah, they have a disclaimer because they know their product is garbage and don't want to stand behind it

It came with a manual? I'll have to take a look at it and thank you for the education on that. My Full choke pattern at the closer ranges seemed to keep a pretty decent pattern. It just got a little squirrely at the longer range and I am assuming if I had a larger target that I would have seen the pattern stay tight but high and to the right. Maybe i'll shoot another video and find out . Thanks for the feedback

@@g7outdoors497 no problem man loved the video most waterfowl chokes that say full are actually modified chokes with lead but with steal a modified shoots like a full choke!

Thank you ! I will have to take a look at them and see how they do. I just adjusted the shim in my A400 in hopes that it will bring my pattern down. Today I shot again with some larger 30" targets and the pattern is running high but the group was pretty dang tight, hope the shim helps bring it down. Thanks again for the suggestion!

G7 Outdoors shims definitely help. I’m shooting SB3 and from factory it was shooting high and to the left, I adjusted the shins and right on target now. Good luck.

Do you use the .685, .690 or .695 high voltage?

Weston Beck .695

@@g7outdoors497 do you have a400 xtreme plus? I got one and it's shooting 50/50 60/40

might have to give it a try , thanks for the tip

Thank you !

Cant disagree with you on that

I went back to my factory(Remington) full tube at the end of the season and was bombing ducks. My last shot this season I killed a drake dead at 80 yards, shooting BBs

Thank you for the suggestions, much appreciated!

Joe Frank the shotgun was on a solid rest with ALL the chokes and the bead on the head of each target.....nothing to do with shooter error. That is the sole reason I used a rest to eliminate that factor as said in the video.The pattern appeared to be high and to the right. I love my patternmaster and have dropped a lot of birds with it but on that day with that ammo it did not preform. I will re-shoot with a larger target to get a better idea. Thanks for the comment

You are assuming thr center of your group is exactly behind your bead and its probably not. You need a bigger target to catch more of the pattern to see where the center is.

@@g7outdoors497 I understand what you're saying but at 5:55 even with the solid rest shooting from a b**** when you pull the trigger in that shell didn't go off there was still a Flinch in movement of that shotgun. While you have worked hard to eliminate as much error as possible oh, there still is human error in these tests. I think a better test of shells and chokes performance together would be a five-shot aggregate

Thank you for your suggestion and I took that feedback and did a follow up video doing just that. Thanks again kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eb5ppJt02MDbdGw.html

ill give it a shot

Awesome! Thanks! I’ll be interested to see how much things change with the slower velocity.

Yea it was nice to see they held their own in this vid. However, I found in a later video I made that it all depends on the combination that your gun likes. Mine likes the 3" HeviHammer#4 and I have not found a round that shoots any tighter. Gotta play around with the combination to find out what works out best. Thank you for watching I appreciate it!

Agreed , I'll probably go back and do just a true pattern test with the patter master on a 30" board. Thanks for the feedback

@@g7outdoors497 Walmart has poster board that comes in 5 or 10 pack. They measure 22"×28". I usually use them but find myself wishing I used something even bigger. I actually did just what you did, using the same targets to get an idea of my patterns. It was hard to tell if i was hitting with the center of the pattern. I had an issue with hitting high as well. I went with a larger bead (Easy Hit Shotgun Sight 3mm) which will raise your POI. I know these kinds of videos take some effort to put together, but they do get you views. Maybe try a bigger target back and give it another go. While I'm here, I'm subbing!

Thanks for the tips , I think I am getting it dialed in since I have shimmed the stock. Thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Thank you for the education , I appreciate it

You can not shoot bismuth through a "no steel" choke as it is harder than steel.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions I appreciate them. I have to disagree about the bench comment. I understand where you are coming from regarding the way you shoot "freehand" vs on a rest is not the same naturally but for the purpose of the video and patterning in general you need the most consistent method and hold to show what the pattern is actually doing without the human error element introduced by pulling/flinching during the shot. Everyone pulls and no one is able to have a hold as consistent as a bench rest. Therefore when you pattern with the bench you truly see what the pattern is doing and when you transition to a live situation you know where it is hitting without your error. Thanks again for your suggestions and opinion .

Yeah totally get that. For my turkey gun I’ve done both actually kinda along the lines of what you’re saying. I want to take human error completely out, then shoot a few freehand. I guess as long as you’re not putting a huge emphasis on a POA/POI shift and just purely looking at uniformity. Oddly enough from a bench, super steady I’ve seen some of my guns shoot a little off, then freehand be dead on. I think it’s because of you’re actually aiming a shotgun with different pressure on the gun vs mounting/holding/pointing. Good stuff regardless. Cheers.

agreed and great points !

Interesting video on patternmaster shot string. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qJN9e8ahss20o5s.html

Thank you for the pointing out the flaws in the test, others had mentioned this as well and in the next few videos I changed the target size as suggested. You are right, I am comparing two different types of tubes and very aware of that. As the title stated, I wanted to see if the factory tube was sub par to the more expensive aftermarket tubes. In the video with the combination of choke/gun/ammo Kicks and PM did not stand out drastically over the factory regardless of what type of tube it is. I do appreciate the insight and appreciate your comments, thanks for taking the time to watch.

Not a fair comparison? Regardless if the gun is shooting high, that variable will not change how the pattern groups on paper. It will be a tight group high, to the left, to the right or low .......the grouping of the pattern thrown by the chokes is what the video is about. Appreciate your comment but I'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Have a great day

The pattern looks great above where you are aiming . Common thing with shotguns now shoot a much bigger target and I bet the patterns will look good just high

Great point, I did move to a much larger 30" circle on a XL packing box in another video i made and it made a big difference. I have found that the majority of the Berettas and Benelli that i have shot all shoot high .Reading a bit more on it, they claim that most bird hunters prefer the 60/40 split shooting high......to each their own i guess.

@@g7outdoors497 not trying to sound like a ass but that's why I gave up and went back to a 30 inch full choke model 12. I spent more money than I want to say on browning Beretta and other shotguns and never got one that shot where I was aiming. Now 25 years later I'm right back to what I started with and have only missed 3 longbeards in the last 7 seasons. I use that 3 inch model 12 for everything but doves, I have a 20 gauge model 12 with a modified I use for doves

@@g7outdoors497 oh yea I forgot.. I don't buy into the 30 70 percent bull shit I want my gun to shoot a round pattern that's a near as possible perfect circle around my aiming point just like they use to in the old days

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. Just to clear things up, I never talked down on the Patternmaster chokes and in fact I use the Code Black Duck and Goose exclusively in my shotgun to this day.I was disappointed in the performance on that day and yes a lot of that in hind sight was due to not having the right combination of shell/gun/choke in play and needing to adjust the shims(unknown at the time). If you watched the video throughout you would see that Im shooting a Beretta A400 xtreme unico ( fairly nice gun) and yes I took the advise from others and adjusted the shims to bring the pattern down in my other videos. The topic of discussion for this video was "do expensive chokes pattern better than factory".....in this video with the chokes and the shell combination that I had on that day it showed that there was not a major gap between the two. Yes the PM did edge them out slightly but not by much. If you want to see what the PM can really do you have to do your homework and find out what combination of shell and choke specificly work for your personal gun as every one handles the combination different. I have put the time in ti find out this information and the video will be up shortly. I am not affiliated with PM and I do think they make a great choke but on that day with that combination it didn't stand out to me as it has in other videos with a better suited combination. Again thanks for the feedback and have a great day

how do you figure, care to elaborate ?

I'll take a look at them and thanks for the advise.

Not sure the style of hunting you do but there are many situations where a 40-50 yard shot may be taken when hunting geese, cranes, and duck. The aftermarket chokes claim to keep a tight pattern out to and some past 60 yards so why not test them? I don't hunt flooded timber , I hunt large flooded rice fields and bays for ducks which sometimes call for a longer shot (35-45 yards) .......I do not normally shoot outside of the 35 yard range for ducks but this video was a pattern test and not me trying to recreate a "realistic scenario", sorry if the video was misleading to you. Also , there were two other targets that were shot that can satisfy your need for a "realistic scenario" if you feel that 50 yards is a bit outside your comfort range for a pattern test. I appreciate your comments and thanks for watching , I'll try and keep it realistic moving forward and not put the manufactures claims to test.

@@g7outdoors497 Glad you responded. I have a Carlson Cremator choke tube as a full choke. I like ducks no more than 45 yards. I like the full choke because it stays as a tight pattern over longer ranges. I personally would not shoot a duck past 45 yards. So the scenario wasn’t realistic for my style of hunting. I don’t feel comfortable shooting any bird past that range. I personally don’t like that patternmaster advertises that you can shoot a duck or goose at 60 plus yards. You aren’t getting the full feel of what waterfowl hunting is when the birds are that far out. I really like federal blue box # 3’s for ducks. It’s economical and gets the job done.

That's the beauty of waterfowl hunting... everyone has there own personal preference and set up that works with their particular situation and setup. I have done a few other videos and have dialed in what my gun and choke like and it is pretty dang good in my opinion. A person just has to put in the time and try different setups to find what works best for them personally. I like to run a full choke as well and agree with you that ethically shooting past 45 is not my choice. The pattermaster does a claim to have a much shorter shot string and it is very apparent in comparison with some of my buddies when hunting open water. I like this personally along with a full choke because when I miss .....I miss and don't cripple the bird with a stragler in the shot string but when i hit they are stone dead. some people like the longer shot string because it offers a bit of compensation. Federal Blue box dont seem to do bad with my A400 and any of my chokes but they do run dirty . As i said before, I appreciate the time you took to comment and thanks for watching.