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The biggest advantage of track tires isn't just more speed but more predictability lap after lap, especially in warmer ambient temperatures. Due to the increased speed and traction, the biggest disadvantage of track tires is brake fade and potentially overheating of the engine and drivetrain. These issues go up exponentially the faster you are.

To be honest i haven't even got a car that would warrant track tyres, just here for the long overdue excellent content.

It would have been interesting to see how the car would have performed with Pilot Sport 4S tires in a square setup with the 275 size on the Apex wheels.

Also outside of these track tests, it would be cool to see the 2 tires going through the normal battery of wet and and dry tests.

I agree completely with your conclusions here. We used to run Boxster Spec cars and had a pair of them with identical setup, weight etc. We experimented with staggered 225/255 tires vs 255 square and got a lot of data over many track weekends. On fast tracks like Fontana or Laguna Seca the staggered setup was a bit faster with consistently higher speeds at the end of a long straight. We concluded that this may be a result of both rolling resistance and aero in high speed sections. On tighter courses with fewer long straights the 255 square setup was consistently faster with more grip in the corners. Which tire should you choose? For HPDE as a novice or intermediate driver still working on skills and fundamentals, the Michelin 4S is a great choice as it is very responsive and turns quick laps consistently. For an advanced driver in AX or Time Trials where lap times really matter, the RE71RS is the ticket to the pointy end of the time sheet. At most weekend TT events we bring both. We run the 4S on Saturday and Sunday morning to wire the track and then switch to the RE71RS for 1-2 practice sessions and final Time Trial runs. This keeps us running at the front for each TT event of the season. Cheers!

Would love to see a comparison between AD09 vs RE71RS

Been using VPR for almost 4 years (we are lucky to have it next to us, here in Greece), great tool and happy to see it advancing and apperaring in reputable productions/channels! Keep it up!

thanks for continuing to produce great videos. literally watch them all and rewatch for reference even more

I would like to see a test like "Do you need extreme performance all seasons vs grand touring all seasons" like the DWS06+ vs Contiprocontact or like a Michelin Pilot Sport AS3+ vs Primacy or MXM4

Once again creating a remarkable video that features intriguing and unconventional comparisons. Your work is truly excellent, Jonathan. Please continue to produce such outstanding content.

Loved it ❤️. I wish you will do more trackday tyres review (on both roard and track).

I am considering one of the two tyres you tested for replacement after the stock PS4 on my GR86 are done. Very useful info, and nicely done video! Very well driven as well, almost 93% DS - crazy! Thank you!

Thank you. I'm running ps4s at the moment and thinking of stepping up to conti force for my next tire. Love the content!

I does.

Great content and advise, thanks.

Really wanted to see this comparison and wouldn’t want anyone else to do it. Thank you!

As always well done, good comparison with great insights of each tyre strenghts and weaknesses. I'd like a comment on tyre pressures used in both cases when doing those kind of tests/comparisons. Looking forward to a next video! 👌🔝

Great review as always

Finally the M3 test car, I've been waiting for it since the announcement of E92 M3 for track testing a few years back. I hope for a lot more content also about modding the car.

Been thinking about going to the Bridgestone next. This definitely convinced me

Always gotta give a shoutout seeing my home track, Utah Motorsport Campus, being featured! I think one of the big things w/ track days and tires is what you can afford. Tracking a car is not cheap, even for low HP cars. If you've already got a solid summer tire it may not be financially viable to buy separate tires for 1 track day. Of course, if you've the means to go frequently then a dedicated tire is the way to go. Hell, I've tracked on all-seasons and it was still fun! Great vid as always and hoping I can run into the Smurf blue, last good looking BMW, one of these days.

Thank you for the great video! Any idea if we'll look into how summer and winter tyres deal with rough asphalt in the summer dry and wet? I am eagerly awaiting any data on that topic!

I agree with your findings. On my GT4, I run PS4S in the OEM 245/295 sizes as well as RE71RS in 255/285 on a smaller 19" wheel. The PS4S are excellent on track, especially on cooler wet days we get in the PNW. But the RE71RS turn the car into a complete animal! I just wish they had them in more sizes

We missed you...

I’ve had two sets of Michelin Pilot Sport 4s on my BMW M4 and I absolutely love them. They’re good looking, quiet, super in the wet and great in the dry. Very comfortable even on 20” wheels. On a previous set I actually had a nail in one and a screw in the other. Didn’t even know they were there until I got the new set mounted (never lost pressure in either tire). Can’t imagine running anything else. 👍🏁

What you don’t address is that the new Pilot Sport 4S despite its performance characteristics mentioned in your video is abysmal in it’s durability. In regular everyday street use on my E39 M5, the rear drive tires wore completely bald in around 5,000 miles. I returned to the tire shop to replace them under pro rated warranty and the new replacements are almost shot again at around 4,000 miles. Two new rear sets of PS4 all seasons trashed in less than a year and around 10,000 total miles. Totally unacceptable wear for such an expensive tire. The fronts, mounted at the same time as the first rears, have outlived the two rear sets and look like they’re good for another 5,000 miles before replacement. 15,000 mile fronts and 5,000 mile rears aren’t my idea of acceptable durability in premium rubber. The previous PS all season 3’s wore out front and rear, at around 15-20,000 miles. I’m considering changing to Pirelli PZero’s or Continental extreme Contact for my next tires.

I have two sets of wheels for my 718 Cayman - the OEM ones with PS4S, and the track/autocross wheels (-1" diameter) with RE71RS. The difference is truly night and day!

Good to see you again! Been a while! Still waiting for OE S5 review! Guess still not released?

Great vid and as a fellow F8X owner excited to see you do more testing with this car!! Amazed there was that much difference in the lap times, were they the star marked MPS4S? I’ve run loads of different track tyres on mine, they all have their strengths and weaknesses but the star marked cup 2 from m2 can be bought cheaply (slightly used) and lap nearly as quick as ar-1/trofeo/ap52. Also last so much longer, don’t drop off much and are nice on road. Pretty amazing tyres and that’s in 245/265 M3/4.

We have also been using VPRating for data acquisition, a great tool for monitoring not only the vehicle dynamics but the driving performance as well!! 92 is a great driving score, well done!!! 💪

Amazing video as always, I would also be quite curious how Conti SC7 would of worked in this case also

F I N A L L Y!!! A new track tire video with my car with the answers I need!!! Need more NEW

Great review Jonathan! I think as still a very occasional track driver I'm better sticking to the 4S or similar. I like the fact they can take a bit of abuse on track and still drive home intact.

Awesome video as always appreciate all the time and effort you put in as you can tell you’re passionate about reporting accurate information. Question, hypothetically, speaking, based on your experience with all these tires, how would the BMW OEM spec Michelin “Star” pilot 4S have done in this test?

Awesome video, thanks. Love to see more track day tyres tested. For the acceleration, i bet on rolling resistance. When i went from normal tyres to michelin supersport, i went down in topspeed from 248km/h to 245 (gps speed) With my nankang ar-1 i am glad if i make 240😅 As long as the tires can handle the acceleration grip, the less resistance the faster you are. Same for wider or stickier tyres and lap times

I guess the best compromise for casual track day drivers would be a square setup with the 275 Pilot Sport 4s all around. You get the added benefit of more front grip, but the harder compound still takes the edge off, road and wet performance is probably better and you get a longer lasting tire.

Great video, I just wish you would have compared size for size, wheel for wheel.

UMC! You are in Utah quite often, I dig it! Hopefully you had a wonderful visit. Great video and real world comparison.

I have a 01 firebird formula that runs Potenza Sport and RE-71RS on two identical sets of wheels...the acceleration difference is noticable even on the street. Off the line, they both have outstanding traction. I can do a 4k clutch dump in either and dead hook. By the end of first gear, the acceleration difference is notable. You feel like you lose speed between gear changes with the RE-71RS while the Potenza Sport "glides" between shifts. You feel the difference in gear acceleration as well, particularly at higher speeds. Its gotta be the rolling resistance in my opinion. That and the weight, all the weight of the RE-71RS is on the the shoulders and the most rubber is right on the center of tread, its the furthest away from center of mass. The design is why it corners and feels so solid but its also creating the most inertia. I want to hook up a draggy and do some in gear acceleration tests to take launch and shifting out of the equation. Id also like to see how long it takes to shed speed back to back...for example going from 60mph to 20mph coasting on both tires

the slower acceleration could also root from the tyre deforming under load like they do on top fuel dragsters. the rim is lighter compared to the stock one, so it spins up faster, which might be fast enough to start spinning before the tyre does. therefore also maybe a mapping/diff situation. Not sure if someone already mentioned that fine content as always. keep the praise of the PS4S up, so I feel good about having them bolted to my E92 335D :) (R19, 225/255)

The most fun our race team ever had was when we swapped race rubber for all-seasons. Of course it's not as fast, but every car we passed was a victory. Not all all-seasons will handle the continuous abuse of an endurance race, but some will.

Maybe car settings is simply adjusted to OEM tires where tracks tires require some specific adjustment. Them balancing effect on front and rear tires µ not meet the torque vectoring the OE is looking for Really many thanks for the channel, love it

Anecdotal observation between these tires on my Civic Type R. The rolling resistance aspect is pretty noticeable even in daily driving situation. RE71RS for me is specifically autoX tires and I'd be carrying them on separate wheels and swap at the event. I used the autoX tires early on to drive on the road just to get them some mileage prior to event and compare the MPG between stock PS4S to those(slightly wider, 275 vs 265) is about 3.5 MPG consistently. I'd say you can even feel the car takes more throttle input to get it going and maintain speed on the highway.

I like how the car comes alive and becomes more of a race car with the Potenza track day tyres! Fun video. 😁 On a wet track day would the Michelin road tyre be the better choice?

You need the PS 4S... to drive to the track. And if it is raining you leave them on. They're the best. The RE-71RS are great... for one lap. Then you'll start burning them up. There are better track day tires that you can run on all day long.

Tire grip and rolling resistance is what caused the slower acceleration. I’ve come to the same conclusion. On a 1/4 mile racetrack where there is traction compound and drag radials my car does a slower 60-130 time when compared to when it’s on pavement that doesn’t have traction compound and the vehicle is equipped with those same Michelin PS4S. The stickiness of the compound and slightly wider tires (275 drag radials vs 265 summer tires) makes a difference. The front wheels and tires were the same.

I'd like to see a chart that shows the best NVH rated tires and how they compare with safety related grip conditions (wet weather, temperature extremes, light snow, ice, soft snow, packed snow, etc) and tire wear. I don't need racing tires, in fact like regular tires for their lack of ultimate grip. I enjoy making the eco tires they put on the car new when I bought it but will be replacing them way before they wear out.

Amazing review as usual and yes, we've been missing you! For the EU drivers, sorry if question has already been answered, but between a PS4S and and a Pilot Supersport* (on paper homologated by BMW), which one would you choose on a M3 e92? Very disappointed experience with Pilot Sport cup 2 which delaminated in the middle of the rolling surface after a trackday. Thanks and keep up the good videos!

Sounds about right, 4 laps or so before the PS4S overheats

I street drive only. but I do appreciate what little info I might be able to apply to my circumstance.. what I really want is info on what brands consistently balance out more easily, which I think would be universally appreciated. I made the mistake of dropping off my wheels to get my new high line Goodyear tires mounted and went to lunch. I should have stood by and watched on something that important to me. When I came back, it looked like there was a bet to see how many wheel weights could possibly be used. balance, the quality of the build, is more important to me than absolute performance, except in an emergency, because I am old and only tour.

Concerning the 4S.......The 4S' have their place but they aren't the greatest tire ever made as some tend to think. On the same car, a Gen6 SS 1LE Camaro, I drove with the OE Goodyear SuperCar3, Michelin 4S and finally Michelin Pilot Super Sport (BMW STAR fronts/ Ferrari K3 rears spec'd). The 4S took away all that was great about the 1LE's steering while the PSS was as equal to the OE Goodyears on response, steering feel and sidewall stiffness with the additional improvements over the OE Goodyear in terms of better wet performance and longer tire life. While the PSS will not have the same ultimate grip as the fantastic track capable SuperCar3, for those who want a better wet performance tire over that OE tire, the PSS is a better performance tire when we are comparing the two Michelins.

What were your cold and hot tire pressures? I experienced more sidewall roll over and outer shoulder wear on the PS4S.

For balance it would have been good to try a square setup on the street tyre too.

Would be nice to have your try the Falken RS820, as they made a more proper sporty tire.

Great test again, thank you. I was wondering what your view / explanation is for the following - on their website, Apex Wheels says about (E46) M3 track wheel recommendations "Note: 19" wheels aren't recommended in this section. Performance dictates that the smallest possible wheel diameter be used that clears the brakes [for track use]." - Why are 18" wheels recommended above 19" for track use? (apart from tyres being cheaper) is there a real performance / steering feel benefit in tracking 18" instead of 19"?

I’m happy to see that F80 in the back as your new test car. Can you come up with some street tires for 600+ horsepower cars? Something that shows wet traction and dry traction from a dig or a roll? MP4S tires spin on cars at this HP level and a lot of us want better traction but the reviews of 100-250 tread wear tires focus on the lap times of 300 hp cars

The Mihlchelin may have been faster due to the bigger/tallerwheel setup. Rolling diameter and more weight may have played a role in how the traction control system allowed more acceleration at certain points. I think you're right about the drag and rolling resistance from the stickier Bridgestone too. Thanks for this video.

Could you also do a review on the Yokohama Advan Apex V601 against it's peers like the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S for example. Anecdotal experiences from users seem good, but a proper instrumented testing would be really helpful.

Currently it’s better to get ContiSport 7 all around for superb grip and wet handling plus trackday tire for trackdays. Unless you want to heavily compromise, this is the best setup

It very depends on vehicle power, i have PS4's on my 330ci and im barely able to slide it, stickier tyres would be absplute overkill 😅

Thanks for the video, are u able to compare fire hawk Indy 500s to high end uhp tires

Hey Jon, the understeer may be a function of the stock suspension as much as it is the staggered wheel and tire size. The F80 begs for aftermarket coilovers.

The better acceleration could be due to a lower rotational moment of inertia. Moment of inertia goes a step further than just 'weight of the wheel' and looks at how hard it is to accelerate. You could test it with a sort of reverse dyno setup where you see how quickly the wheel can be spun up to a certain rpm from a standstill with an electric motor supplying a controlled amount of power.

You get higher acceleration at lower speeds and while in lower gears, so with the PS4S giving you less speed mid corner combined with the staggered setup allowing you to apply full throttle earlier than the square setup, maybe you see a higher peak rate of acceleration.

275/35/18 front 295/35/18 rear combo is great for this chassis

This is something I’ve just been thinking about as I consider doing open track days in my stock street car. I’d like to use a low grip tire to reduce the wear on my car, but I’ve heard of some street tires not being up to the task of track use without tread separations and overheating. I’d like to even go to all season levels of grip, but those are certainly not typically track rated. I also wonder about response/feedback/manners.

I think the better acceleration of the street tire comes from it being front limited, i.e. the rear tires are not at their traction limit during cornering so they can put down power more.

I have a theory - the centrifugal forces on the rotating tire at those high speeds make it want to bulge outward and depending on compound stiffness, (softer for track tires), there is higher deformation on track tires, which means the dynamic rolling resistance is greater than the static rolling resistance

Since Bridgestone is 1" smaller and the wall is bigger compared to MIchelin - maybe the reason is that Bridgestone is more "flexible" - something which can be seen in dragster start slow motion videos but of course with smaller effect . But this is just my guessing :D

I think rolling resistance could play a factor. Was there a difference in peak speed on corner exit that corrolates? I would think not based on lap times. I would also say a slight change in manifold density from having to wait on the front axle could drop IAT just enough to affect peak speed. A slight taper before the braking zone? Do you have graphs you can overlay? You'll find where the difference is coming from. Driver confidence and fluidity would be a factor, but being so well versed with track testing, i doubt thats a factor here.

It’s like you read my mind. I have a E92 M3 in Australia and need to replace to current tyres but also have a track day coming up. Was tossing up about the Bridgestone but would prefer to only have one set of tyres. Car is also only driven 1000-2000kms per year. 4s or Bridgestones?

PS4S just doesnt last on track for me. It gets greasy and slidey way too quickly. Its pretty good on a wet track though, so ill drive there on the street PS4S set up then switch to an F1SS if it is dry, or leave the Michelins on if its wet, so i find thats quite a good compromise.

Really enjoy these reviews but would really enjoy one these reviews of UHP / UUHP tires on how they perform on high performance AWD vehicles would be an interesting test compared to RWD and FWD

I had PS4S on my F87 M2, even with some camber plates... they still only last 3-4 laps before the compound melts and really falls off pace. Switching to a square setup with a more heat-tolerant compound is vital to enjoying lapping days.

I have a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE-71RS on my Abarth 595. It's little more than a Go Kart at 995kg, but it does have 300hp through the front wheels, which causes traction issues. These tyres are night and day compared to the stock Michelin's and the Bridgestone RE003's.

I went back to back with these two on my STI (at UMC as well). I started with the PS4S and after one ATD track night and was very disappointed in how quickly they fell off and turned to mush after 3 laps. They absolutely need cooldown laps. They also didn't have near the turn-in feel that I was after either. AMAZING for a daily driver, but I do not think they're really up to actual track duty. I've been loving the RE71RS.

Gotta love an f80 Jon, but it’s a heavy bus and a strong sidewall is essential. I recommend trying the BMW star rated Pirelli p zero. They’re built like tanks and put up with a huge amount of abuse, even with an f80 on top of them. They aren’t the quickest tyre, but they’re superb fun, consistent and work well in the wet, with a wear rate that doesn’t destroy the wallet. Ask the ring guys why they run them lap after lap!

Please do a review of the AD09 on the GR 86 🏎 If you can you could compare it to a cup 2?

I've driven the 4S and RE71RS on my 718S and the problem I ran into with the 4S is that I could chunk the outside shoulder on -1.8 Deg. of camber when used on tracks with banked turns with medium to high speed. The RE71RS holds up better over multiple sessions for me.

On my Audi TTS mk3, the RE-71-RS cured a lot of the understeer as well. I run 20" PS4S and 18" RE71-RS for autocross. The PS4S I use below 50F or when too wet for the RE71-RS. This makes the expensive PS4S last a long time. Would have liked a price comparison with a 19" square setup for your PS4S'.

A few ideas regarding the acceleration differences, keeping in mind I'm just spit balling here... Firstly, are the tires the same circumference? The Michelin looks bigger somehow. We are almost certainly not restricted by torque, so is a bigger tire able to convert more of the torque into usable power? Secondly, sidewall. Which combined with... Third, a more forgiving tire compound. Which like the sidewall leads to... And lastly Traction Control. Basically I'm wondering if the smaller and more flexible sidewall is making it easier for the car to maintain grip under acceleration. Maybe the car can detect and then compensate for grip faster. Or perhaps with more flex in the compound the pulses of power put through the driveline from the engine are less jarring. (look into moto gp engine firing orders for a rabbit hole on this...) You also mention that the rear tires on the Bridgestone didn't fire up as quickly as the fronts, and that they also fell off before your quick laps. What TC settings were being used? Maybe the Ego dial needs a twist? An M3 isn't really on the same level as the GTI.... Anyone else have ideas?

My thought on the difference between the acceleration Gs is related to higher minimum cornering speeds on the Bridgestones. The difference is relatively small at .017G-all things being equal, accelerating from a lower speed will be easier (higher longitudinal G) than accelerating from a higher speed. I realize that doesn't account for difference in max speed, which if GPS based, is definitely a curiosity. Was the equipment recalibrated between runs on different wheels, and is the max speed GPS or wheel speed?

Nice Video, which Brake setup are you using?

Is the street tire slipping more during launch? The track tire could be slightly bogging down the motor with too much grip, where the OE was tuned perfectly.

I have Michelin PS5 on my car and find for my level of skill they are perfectly good for the occasional track day and hill climb and I do not need two sets of wheels.

7-years of tracking the F8X platform taught me that 275 are not enough on the rear axle, the S55 just has too much torque for those tires. A 275-305/35R18 setup is what worked the best for me.

The age of the tires you have picked in regards to them being around label wise really says something about where the industry seems to Focus these days. That said I have used both tires on my 400kw ute. I started with the Bridgestones and they were Sticky enough but virtually dissolved with regular road use they barely made 8000 klm with the set. I only encountered one stormy day and the RE-71RS was not great even with sensible driving. They were at about 50% wear. I changed over to The pilot Sports and was pleasantly surprised wear wise. When I bought them they were actually cheaper then the RE-71 and as mentioned need a short while to warm but not excessive. Ultimate grip when new was as good but as they wore and aged went off but not excessive or noticeable unless measured. 35000klms and mostly changed due to a burnout that took its toll. In a 245/40/18 fitment that sees genuine road use the Pilot sport was loads better IMO. I then changed again to a Federal SS595 that were not as good but once warm worked quite well. excellent in the rain and a consistant grip level throughout their life. Did 40000 on them and I would have replaced them same for same but there were none available at the time.

My theory would be that the wider front tyres and them being stiffer also means they are heavier. (stiffer=heavier construction?) That bit of more weight can already make a tiny bit of difference in accelleration i think.

I have a question unrelated to this video. As someone who avoids tracks, but will travel very long distances for twisty mountain roads, I have runflats under my car (Michelin PS 4). Just out of curiosity: how do the stiffer sidewalls on runflats affect the performance? From watching this channel I'd say that the stiffer sidewalls mean they should communicate better, but there is probably more to it. I am eager to learn. Two months ago I wrecked all 4 tires on a mountain road in eastern Turkey and without runflats that would have been more a lot more adventurous. Now I just drove to the next town. Lesson learned: depots where they deposit sharp rocks from landslides can look quite similar to unpaved parking lots, but differences do matter. 😁

I know in Europe it isn’t the same as North America for category options, but I’d love to see comparisons on ultra-high performance all-seasons against regular all-season and/or touring tyres. I’m personally comparing Pilot Sport All Season 4 to Continental ContiProContact (oem), and Goodyear Assurance Maxlife for my daily driver integra. Trying to find out how much more wet traction and stopping distance the faster tread wear of uhp buys me.

Id'be willing to guess that acceleration and higher "trap" speed on the street tire is having to do more with the diameter of them better matching the gearing of the car. More so than the rolling resistance. Just a guess though. Also, how did the wheel/tire weight compare? The wider front Bridgestones probably weighed more then the OEM width.

Do you think that you would have potentially had less understeer running just slightly higher pressures up front on the Michelin? In the video it looked like the tire was folding over almost entirely.

I am currently using a Yokohama AD09 👍💪

Would be great if you discussed the differences in tire air pressures on aggressive driving after they heat up.

I run cup2 on my mx5 daily, maybe it's because of the low weight but they last atleast 30k km's drive very well, are not that expensive €500,- for a set, wich last 3/4 years with a few track days. Wet performance is just as good as the ps5 (only in very heavy rain it's worse, but then your speed will usualy be lower aswell).

I wonder if the peak acceleration could be a matter of the tire carcass, maybe the softer structure of the Michelin played better with the chassis/traction control?

Great video thanks as always. Just a couple of things: Why at the conclusion you say a street tire would have more longevity on the track? It would be heat soaked in a couple of laps and start to destroy itself with overheating thus giving you a lower lifespan than a more track oriented tire. I know this videos take a lot of time and are expensive and time consuming but I think this test would need a road assessment too. What is the use of a semi slick tire that gets warm in half a lap but overheats after 5 or 6 laps? Vice versa what is the use of a semi slick on the road if a PS4 is faster on the street? Probably it's due to driving style and car performance my example and I'm very happy: Bmw M235i BM3 stg2 225F and 245R Yokohama Advan sport v107 for street Nankang ar1 for the track Both tires in my opinion and from your tests are very resistant to high temperatures even though when they are cold they don't handle the best. But can last long spirited drive on the road or a full track day with sessions of 30 minutes non stop. Probably my issue is due to the fact that my tires are small for the power I'm pushing and are over stressed I will test on upsizing both front and rear but would like to change too much the balance of the car as it's nice and playful on acceleration and it's very balanced once all 4 wheels slide in fast corners.

I would have loved to see this with the ExtremeContact Sport 02, as well. I'm partial to the Continentals, having run Michelin in the past, so I'm curious to see how you would compare them in this scenario.

Great review and subject. Strange smaller diam results with slower accel number. Lighter and shorter should produce better accel. Weird.....