That has been my experience and every time with streamers. As I said, years ago I played with passive preamps and had pretty much the same experience.

Keith, I often make fun of the audiophile terms because if you used them in a conversation with musicians they would likely have 2 thoughts. One, what drugs are you using and where did you get them because they want to avoid that seller, or: Two, just the opposite as they want to become as delusional as you. Mind you, those ill-defined terms, with no real reference in reality, can be somewhat useful, I suppose, but only after the musicianship has been proven by the equipment. Otherwise, you are spending a lot of money to hire a wedding reception band to be in your home. By the way, for years in the 90's the buzz term as "Midrange suckout." Still pondering that one to see if it would help me clear out toilets.

@@audibleeleganceinc Yes and to your point, I've never really grasped the audiophile vocabulary.

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Thank you for contributing to the channel. I suppose there are situations where somebody accidently got it right and, of course, there is the general resolution of the entire system itself. The better the system, the more that can be revealed either good or bad. So, an interesting observation assuming you are listening to music musically and not simply tonally. Thank you, again.

Please find me that article. I would love to read it. Thank you for your comment.

@@audibleeleganceinc One sec let me find where I was reading it and post it. Might be cool like you said.

@@audibleeleganceinc Ok so I cant find the article or possibly the thread that was discussing this. It was basically a discussion that amps dont need them because of their already high impedance ... and that most amps already have the buffer built in which is why they have the high input impedance. So I turned to ChatGPT to ask if most audio power amps have input buffers as part of their design and this is what it says: Yes, most home audio power amplifiers for music playback do have an input buffer as part of their input circuitry. An input buffer serves several important functions: Impedance Matching: It helps match the impedance between the source device (like a preamplifier or a DAC) and the amplifier. This ensures that the signal is transferred efficiently without loss or degradation. Signal Isolation: It isolates the input stage of the amplifier from the source device, which can help prevent unwanted interactions and preserve signal integrity. Noise Reduction: By providing a stable and consistent signal to the amplifier, an input buffer can help reduce noise and improve overall sound quality. Protection: It can protect the amplifier from any potential harmful spikes or irregularities in the input signal. These benefits make input buffers a common and important feature in the design of high-quality home audio power amplifiers.

Well, that's not been my experience nor that of many others. Pot luck?

@@audibleeleganceinc maybe. I mean until last year I still had a Proceed preamp processor (was used only as a 2 channel) which I sold. That has hell of a lot going on:). I tend to leave my gear on all the time so maybe them not being cycled on and off helps

Both are excellent questions and honestly, it may come down to the amplifier itself. I think that is one where you need to contact the manufacturer of the amplifier product as I don't know how they have wired in the volume control. The phono stage itself is no different than a line level output like a CD player ect. ect. as that is what it does: It raises a weak signal to the equivalent of a line level signal. Let me know what amplifier you have and I see if I can find anything about it as well. Thank you for taking the time to post good questions.

You treat a phono pre just like you would any other line level source, such as a CD player or Tuner. With gain controls, you need to be careful. Too much gain can overdrive and distort the signal. A volume control can't harm the signal in any way, so its a much more user friendly adjustment. Use only as much gain as you need and no more.

@@052RC Excellent response and very true.

@@audibleeleganceinc I’ve got some Frankenstein systems because I lost alot of my gear and had to sell a lot too (long, shitty story) so I didn’t have a working preamp when I moved into my current place 6 months ago. I was using a Micro Seiki MR-411 as my source into an emotiva phono pre and then to a dbx BX-3. But when I picked up a cheap projector to be my TV I put a WiiM mini before the amp so i could use it as a poor man’s preamp. Phono going into the one stereo analog input and my laptop sending audio to it via AirPlay 2. I ran that setup for a minute but wasn’t really liking it since it wasn’t a true preamp, just a streamer doing double duty. For the price those things are awesome. I then remembered that I had an old and auto-dated home theater preamp, the Acura’s ACT-3. The WiiM’s optical out goes into a digital in on the ACT and the emotiva is go into to an analog input, that is then run to the dbx. But my camping van system still doesn’t have a preamp. I have a 1600W inverter to power a technics sl-q202 to the emotiva phono pre (I just borrow it from my home system when zi go camping at the beach every week for a day or two. That runs to a Samson 240 power amp that drives a pair of elac UniFi Ub51 speakers. It’s ugly but it kicks ass for van camping at the beach!