I still think stellantis is the stupidest name for a car company. It sounds like a prescription drug for crotch rot .

60s factory race car owners = cool stories, multuiple engines, drag strip time slips, rich legacy. Modern factory race car owner = "it never left my Garage"

I am a Tech at a dodge Ram Jeep Dealership in CA. Stellantis has the worst factory support of any manufacturer. They look for any reason to deny warranties on the most pedestrian vehicles. I can imagine they dont warranty much on the 170. With that said our owner has packed away 2 of them in his collection with an original demon too. I agree with the future serviceability of all new vehicles. Stellantis makes almost no replacement parts for vehicles more than10 or 12 years old.

Took the '70 Challenger out last Sunday. Ran the old 383 hard for about two hours. Forty years on the last rebuild. Truly enjoy the certainty that the old boy can still take it. I do not believe that any of these "last call" cars will have that sort of reliability 50 years down the road. A fast horse doesn't run long.

Best closing line, "They'll probably end up sticking a 440 with a Torqueflite in it because THAT is eternal." Well said.

Since Chrysler replaced this high-profile KZfaqr's engine for free, that should set the legal precedent for every buyer afterward to get exactly the same service. Full accountability.

I was running into this "that part is obsoleted" with Ford parts back in the 90's.........I have been daily driving (weather permitting) my 75 Lincoln. I drove it to the machine shop that is doing my 350 chevy for another project. They see that car and ask what I do at work. I have been in IT most of my life. I tell them "I work on computers all day so I can drive cars that don't have any".

Yesterdays classic automobiles age like wine, todays, milk.

The difference between the racecars from the 60's and these cars is that those cars were actually raced. People have memories of watching them go down the track. In 20 years will someone have memories of their friend getting flung out the window at the intersection takeover?

Just watched a video yesterday of an engine teardown from a 2022 Audi V6 that suffered premature failure due to coolant getting into the oiling system. The engine had such low mileage that you couldn't see any visible wear marks on the plastic timing chain guides. For whatever reason Audi rejected the warranty claim and the vehicles owner had a foot the $30k bill for a replacement engine. This is what you risk getting into with these "technologically advanced" engines. I think the name of the KZfaq channel is I Do Cars if you're interested in seeing the teardown.

I believe this applies to most every new vehicle currently available. Vehicles have simply become computers with wheels!

This is a parallel for guitar collectors; if it says “Vintage” on it, it isn’t. Things that are blue-chip collectible items were never looked at this way when they were new.

99% chance: Dodge will NEVER reveal the culprit of the failures in the 170's

You got love UTG speaks from the heart soul and mind. He definitely gets it. It is a rich man’s car out of my budget. 👍

I remember all the 1976 Eldorados people bought as " investments".....and the black and silver Corvette pace cars....besides I can not take a "race car" with a sunroof, leather and gps navigation seriously.....

Tony, when you slapped your chest and said: “My Chrysler”, you struck a nerve, because that is how I feel about the old Chrysler. In my opinion, the current FCA/Stellantis derivative of Chrysler is not anything other than a holding place for the badges we loved.

I agree, but, Tony, there has to be a financial gain for any company to continue to support them. I may be dating myself, but the day is gone when you bought a new Road Runner, took it home, tore the exhaust manifolds off and put headers on it. The gearhead culture that we grew up in no longer exists. Most young folks don't even want to get their hands dirty, it cuts into their video game time. I'm glad I grew up when I did.

Plastic won't make the timeline for storage it'll dry rot and crack work on brittle

very true logical mechanic..such wisdom for all time...give me hand crank windows and kick start motorcycles..

You make a valid point. If you don't race a factory race car, you have a museum piece, not a car. I had a 63 Corvette convertible in the 70s, and it was put together decently enough for wash and show service. People would come up and ask if it had numbers matching engine and so forth. In reality it was a 65 engine with fuelly heads, factory Weiand aluminum manifold, but the right air cleaner. The original car was 325 horse and I probably made 375 with the work on it. So, a car show is for the imagination, not for the reality. Unless these Demon 170s make that legacy by being raced into the history books, they are just curiosities in the future. The build sheet and everything else means nothing. The pleasure comes from driving great cars, not looking at them and admiring the purchase documents.

After working on cars for almost 30 years. And watching this channel for the last few years. My plan/hope/dream is to get a car that has no electronics. A completely analog, mechanical car. Points ignition and a carburetor. I want simple and reliable. Keep a few spare parts and a few simple tools in the trunk and never worry about breaking down and getting stranded. There's too much unnecessary technology in modern vehicles. I'm sick of it

I bought the '22 Challenger Scat Pack, Shaker edition and I drive it occasionally, I don't race it. I bought it to have and enjoy. I'll keep it as long as is feasible, then probably sell it. My '74 Road Runner with a 440 magnum?? I'll *never* sell that. 😊

Nothing worse than trying to scavenge for parts. I sold my 87 Shelby Charger last year because of this. It was in great condition, a reliable high 12 sec car with the mds I had and a total blast to drive but trying to find parts was an absolute nightmare.

Took the words right out of my mouth. They built these cars with pay walls for every model up you go. The 5.7 is more accessible and that one will continue to be modded and had fun with for relatively little money.

Almost every new hi end car is not user accessible to repair. They all have multiple computers that require the dealer to repair. The dealer also has access to the factory support. That is how it is today if you want a new car. Thank you for the video sir.

I can remember thumbing through a Direct Connection catalog and noticing that you can actually buy an Aspen or Volare as a body-in-white and build your own roundy round racer! Those were the days!

Thanks for pointing that out! I'm 69 and always had mopars. I got my first Hemi when I was 16 it was a DeSoto firedome. That was in 1972 and I still have the tag off that car.

When they came out with the anniversary corvettes, every corvette guy bought one, and stored it, years later, they were the cheapest corvettes on the market, and some with only 30 miles on them!!

Really enjoy Tony's channel and the way he communicates. 👍

Tony, I'm about 10 years older than you and spent a lot of time at York US 30 and Maplegrove back in the day. I was thinking the same damn thing about these cars. Great "old" minds think alike!!!

Limited run means limited replacement parts

Back in 2016 I waited 2 months for FCA to supply a rear main seal ( warranty repair) for a 5.7 Hemi, by 2020 it wasn't uncommon to wait 6 months for things like 5.7 camshafts and lifters. When the Stelantis merger was anounced we could all see the writing on the wall.

ANY car, that fast, that powerful, with only a front sump oil pan due to the cars geometry, MUST have a dry sump system.

In 1969 there was an old mechanic saying exactly the same thing tony is saying now ,about the cars coming out then.

Dixie cup. Lol. What an awesome metaphor!

Keep preaching Tony. If I end up running this show I’m gonna grab a 1970 muscle car and declare every law that would tend to prevent building, selling, and driving it repealed.

Did Chrysler really expect these cars to hold up when run repeatedly on a drag strip that is so sticky on the start line that a person can hardly walk across it without being stuck to the ground. When I heard that these cars had a warranty my first thought was that that was a recipe for financial disaster. Don't get me wrong, I bleed Mopar Blue.

Thank you Uncle Tony! I've been waiting for someone to address the long term viability of this era of cars.

As far as any low mileage collector cars...I'd prefer a car that's been used more. Even a perfect looking show piece will have dry rubber, swelled rubber brake hoses, dried out carbs, rotten gas tanks..... corrosion inside the engine.... Even the crank shaft settling on the rubber seals and creating oil leaks.....it's a total crap shoot with something that has 500 original miles. There are the rare exceptions, someone who understands how to store a car properly, but how many of those people do you think there are? A car with 20-50,000 that has been moved around, used occasionally, and maintained would definitely make a better car than one that sat since 1993. Ask me how I know.... My low mileage big block shortbed 76 Silverado had been parked since 1993. Started inside, eventually got moved outside, and when the old man died, it sat there in the weeds another 15 years. Ruined the interior, rat chewed wiring, burned paint, every brake line, every rubber bushing.....fuel tanks, hard lines, rubber, all of it. The only thing that saved the motor was the son going out and cranking it once in a while to try to keep the motor from locking up.

You can’t even buy the 2018 special Demon tires anymore! They are gone

The yuppie collectors effect has only got stronger as the economy has got worse. Interesting. Ill take my '70 Lemans that has no stereo, or heat over a modern marvel of mechanical folly, that is designed to bleed my wallet dry.

Don’t kid yourself. These cars will have value. There are tons of kids out there now that want these cars and can’t afford them. One day plenty of these kids will make a lot of money and will look to buy these cars that they couldn’t afford as kids. Prices will be comparable to us trying to buy classics right now. There will be people out there who know how to work on them still. I have friends now who know these cars well. The aftermarket will always provide many parts. These cars will not be worthless. How much will they bring we will see. But make no mistake about it they will be desirable!

Very valid points! My daughter's Challenger HellCat had 6,000 miles & same thing happened! The dealer refused to warranty it because they said she was racing it! Over $30 grand to fix!!

You should read some warranty booklets, I have a 2020 Vespa and if you don't bring it into an "approved" service center for an inspection regularly, it will void the warranty. So doing your oil changes and filter cleaning but no inspection, will void the warranty. Unless you take it to the dealer to do the $100 inspection and sign your little book.

There will always be someone offering support for these vehicles but the trick is that the support, software, and technology required will be the real collectors item.

Completely right. These cars are different than the other contemporary real factory race cars in that they are actually very fast, smog legal street cars. So he’s completely right. If you shrink wrap it and take it out in 30 years it probably won’t run and there will be no way to make it run unless you destroy the originality and change out all the electronics. So in the future, this will be at best an interesting museum car. One other point. If you buy one of these and put it away for 30 years as an “investment “ it’s actually a bad investment no matter how much it appreciates. If all you’re trying to do is make money, you will be much better off by putting the $150,000 into an S&P 500 index fund. Based on historical performance of the S&P 500, a $150,000 will be worth $2.6 million in 30 years. Will a Demon 170 be worth $2.6 million in 30 years? Possibly, but probably not. Also you need to calculate the carrying cost of storing and insuring the is car for $30 years.

Yes, you are right on in your analysis I think. There may be some niche collectors market in the future, but trying to keep one of these alive in 2074 will be next to impossible unless between now and then someone comes up with an uber-smart plug and play engine controller that can be plugged in somewhat universally and just "know" what to do.

Tony, you make some good points here, Stellantis got rid of their performance engineers, so who gets to diagnose any problems that may arise? Also. should not the oiling system be a dry sump like some of the late model Corvettes to stop a potential oil starvation issue?

These cars were never meant to be tracked. They were meant to be purchased, shrink wrapped, and put into the owners' garages.

My heart always skips a beat when Uncle Tony mentions a Turbo Buick (GNX) or other G body .....because he knows😂

You're absolutely right, Tony. That front sump pan is wrong for this application. I'll bet that if you could do the download, you'd see the oil pressure drop after just a few seconds of hook up. A race car that you can't race... great. Baby it for a few years and then turns it into a lawn ornament... great. We have so many regulations forbidding the manufacturing of basic utilitarian vehicles (without computers). It didn't start out that way, but there's simply no pleasing these folks at the EPA.

Explains why Stellantis laid off a crap tonne engineers this yr in the states and Europe

I couldn't agree with you more!!! Same goes for all the new high tech cars, as soon the cost of repair of these new systems is going to exceed the value of the car!

HEMI DARTS WERE IN THE 9'S. SO I DONT WANNA HEAR MOPARS EXCUSES. THATS 55YRS AGO.

Dodge's "Last Call" scam. Let's not forget that these Chargers and Challengers are incredibly heavy. Serious waste of money in my opinion. Let's hope Dodge doesn't make a new Viper...which will end up more like a garter snake.

Offering a warranty on a factory race car is foolish for any manufacturer to offer! I can’t think of any factory race cars from the sixties that had a warranty!

You're prechin' to someone who just bought a 40 year old washing machine, but I needed a good reminder why not to just take the easy route. Thanks, Uncle Tony

"My Chrysler" no longer exists. Neither does common sense.

There are already work arounds for Hellcats with standalone computers from multiple aftermarket companies like Holley/MSD/FiTech/megasquirt

Experienced a similar incident in the late 60's, was a Ford with a Big Block, roached several engines before we made a homemade oil pan and pick-up. Was a lash-up Rube Goldburg design, how often do you see a multi-piece oil pan. Will never but never get into a can of worms like that again. My simple answer today would be a simple rear pan pickup and a transfer pump. Yes it would be a cobbled up looking mess but it would work.

OCmotivator and TK's garage have been following this closely. Those were the guys that got Dodge to get a Demon to the soldier when the dealer sold it out from under him. Somehow Jay Leno got involved in that as well.

As soon as u said front sump i think dumb as a hammer

Interesting take on the 170.. you definitely make some solid points Tony.. good video buddy 👍

Most Demon 170s bought to store for long term investment would become trailer queens or show pieces anyway so tech/parts support would be a void issue. Suprised you didn't bring up that Stellantis already fired most of the knowledgeable support team/engineers for these cars already. I quit working as a Chrysler Technician around 17 years ago and they were absolutely horrible and wretched to work and deal with then on warranty issues... I cannot imagine what it is like now.

Bang on Uncle Tony! Well said Sir. “So simple even an 11 year old girl could do it” 😂

I don't get why dodge keeps the front sump . Ya the frame ya ya . Stop making the frame like that.

I started eating bearings in my OEM oil pan, front sump 521 BBF Lincoln MkV. Changed out to a baffled pan, and Cobra Jet dual stage M48 oil pump. Definitely limitations of a front sump; physics. I also have few modern computer controlled cars. Your right, I too prefer simple ignitions, timing, vacuum and carbs…

Stellantis is the absolute worst corporation that could have ever bought dodge ram jeep Chrysler. They knowingly sabotaged them by no longer making affordable transportation.

Life support Tony? The share holders are pallbearers, and the weeping widow is throwing down the flowers...

Muscle cars from the 60's are valuable because aging Baby-Boomers and Gen X'rs remember them, desire them and are willing to pay big money to own them. I'm sure that there will always be a market for a good Hemi-Cuda, but I'm guessing that once the Baby Boom generation is gone the market for 60's era muscle cars will soften. IMO, mediocre examples will no longer command high prices.

My wife bought me a 67 GTX for Christmas. I can work on it myself and parts are readily available. A friend of mine bought a Demon 170 as an investment. It stays parked in an environmentally controlled garage. I drive mine and enjoy it. I think have the better investment!

Sounds like they need a dry sump.

I would think that a good knowledgeable Technician with a Wi-Tech and an active subscription would be able to work on this outside the dealership.

Yeah this thing he probably has more electronics than the space shuttle and they're not going to support that

Well done Tone. Good lecture today. Was browsing eBay the other day and notice that used ECUs for my 2000 Lightning are selling around $2,000. Total insanity

I worked at a dodge dealership and you are 100% correct. look at the prowler and viper, I had people screaming at me every week because they could buy any parts for them. The best are the PT Cruiser crowd. People are still buying PT's as collector items and would throw a fit when they find out no parts are available.

"What happens after 5 years?",...SOL.

Loved watching the video of RacerX getting trashed by the Tesla, one driver has a baseball cap and a huge smile, the other driver, full helmet and eyes wide open with that frustrated "what am I doing?" look... and this was before he was experiencing engine problems. I agree with you assessment, these cars are primarily rich boy toy's and are not real factory race vehicles.

I was saying the same things about new vs old way back in the 80s. as soon as computers even though simple, will always keep me driving pre 80s cars.

That was an awesome video! You know your stuff and made a whole hell of a lot of sense!

How long will Stellantis be around to service cars. Not very long me thinks.

If you want to run quarter miles in the 8s or better, you want a dry sump oiling system.

RACER X was racing an AWD TESLA PLAID. He might as well have been trying to race the Space Shuttle.

Man, you knocked this one out of the park!!! That's exactly why I wouldn't trade my one-owner 1969 Charger for a brand new "Last of the line" Hellcat Wide Body.

The best new thing I saw was Mopar cars and trucks sold new in Canada have no warranty if they are resold in the USA even if they are only a couple years old.

You make a good point Tony. That's an expensive paper weight.

Right on, Uncle. This problem of techno-obsolescence is universal. I sold my Allis-Chalmers WD45 recently--it was made around 1956 and still ran well. Now imagine: will a 2024 HyperDyne 12-computer 28-module John Deere tractor still be drivable or fixable in the year 2091? And so forth with all the rest of the space shuttle-complex machines.

A guy in Virginia has 7 of them….a little greedy 🤷🏻‍♂️

First of all-RacerX wouldve never got warranteed if he didnt have such a strong social media presence. That being said, back when they were announcing the Demon 170, the drag race chassis, and engine/trans only packages, I told everyone they were looking to unload all the parts inventory/stock that Stellantis had for these cars, simultaneously hoping to convince everyone they were genuinely going to warranty and backup these cars and drivetrains...everyone laughed at me and now here we are...Dodge scammed everyone to buy these POSs, got top dollar for them, and now will shit on owners who find them falling apart and failing in every way. Thinking of buying a late model hellcat or scat? Run away.

My 1987 gmc s15 with all factory TBI and factory injectors is still running strong. My 92 deville still runs strong too. Fuel data center LEDs burnt out and they’re hard to get but I know I have a full tank and use trip meter to monitor gas. My 77 cj7 with electronic ignition still runs great. The sky is not falling

There's certainly a lot of validity in that support or repair will be a long term issue for just about any new performance car, especially ones with low production numbers. And muscle cars from the 60s and 70s will always be simple to fix and repair because they were that way from the start. Still, I think there will absolutely be collectability in these newer cars. Hellcats and Demons have left their mark in the American automobile scene, and they'll be sought after in years to come. Those who have the cash for a Demon 170, will be the guys who can also afford the the cost of whatever solutions the free-market comes up with to keep those machines functioning in the future.

it sounds like they NEED a dry sump oil system. one that holds enough oil to make it down the strip.

With very few exceptions, when everyone "thinks" something will increase in collector value, it's a sure bet it won't. It's always the stuff nobody saw coming that goes up in value. E-bodies are a prime example. Nobody saw that one coming. Same for 68-'70 Chargers. XJ- Cherokees are headed that way (cash for clunkers). Not saying the Demons won't be valuable but you also paid a lot to get one. Corvette Pace cars, '75 Eldorado convertibles, I can name a bunch. All these cars that everybody bought up and hoarded away just knowing they'd be collectible. You'd have lost your shirt on all of them.

I'm so out of the loop with modern cars, I thought this was some unknown Demon from the early 70s with a slant six. 🤣

Friend of my late father ( _requiescat in pace_ , Dad) used to race a Hemi Dart at National Trail back in the day. Cool car. Dad was a pretty good racer who stopped when us kids came along, but he always had a fully stocked garage, and the first family car I remember was a '64 Impala SS 409 4-speed. Later he had a '68 Camaro 356 with an SS 396 hood (for some reason). I never had a hot rod of my own because I got into playing bass instead but I still love 'em.

Front sump don't work for drag racing! Learned that years ago!

Its not a car its a collectible for rich people for what costs you could build and campaign a pro mod and go faster.

My father worked for Chrysler for 32 years....I will NEVER own one. When I owned sports cars they were either Corvette or mustang. Today my commuter cars are either Lexus or Honda. I figured out a long time ago buy cars and guitars from Japan and firearms from the USA. Less time spent fixing stupid shit and more time spent making music and putting holes in shit....life is good.

Thanks for your input, I wonder about the E-85 and Oil usage, next I wonder who will take over as the experts to maintain those cars as well. A Self Employed team specializing will cost much more. Also the need for buying spare everything and just how many parts and electrical systems can be had in future if cancelled. looks like Mopar has stopped selling many aftermarket parts too.

I’d have to say I disagree. Having played with the LS efi platform, the aftermarket and some smart individuals have found all the workarounds possible to keep these engines and machines going for years to come. Although it will surely be more difficult, i believe some smart people, (possibly previous Chrysler techs or engineers) will release products, info and tech that can keep these modern Hemis running. I guess we will have to wait and see.