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Does Shooting BlackMagic Raw Video Make A Difference or Is 10-Bit Enough?
Рет қаралды 14,943
Күн бұрынGear mentioned in this video:
Panasonic S5iix - geni.us/Nvyao5
Blackmagic Design Video Assist - geni.us/FvVcrbb
Smallrig Cage for S5iix - geni.us/wauA1
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iJustine Kondo Blue USB C Cable - geni.us/DhiHh
Thinkthing MagDisk Pro (SSD) - geni.us/YCtdux
Table of Contents:
0:00 - Is Raw Video Worth The Hassle?
2:00 - Panasonic Lumix BRAW Kit
3:30 - Camera & Monitor Setup
4:35 - Getting The Raw Video Test Shots
5:55 - Raw vs. Internal Video File Sizes
7:37 - Raw vs. Internal Overall Look
8:25 - Raw vs. Internal Color Correction Process
9:51 - Raw vs. Internal Color Differences
11:00 - Raw vs. Internal Bad White Balance Fix
13:14 - Raw vs. Internal High ISO Comparison
14:43 - Raw vs. Internal Highlight recovery
16:52 - Conclusion: Is Raw Video Worth It?
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@angusmackay7281 2 ай бұрын
As someone who has been using Red RAW video for the best part of a decade, I have to say that this is a really smart and well presented statement of the case for and against RAW, and when it should - and shouldn't be used. RAW can be a lifesaver and in terms of getting a natural and consistent grade. Not even Arri logC can live with it in that respect, because of RAW's capacity for non-destructive exposure and colour temp corrections. But as someone who also owns - and loves - the S5iiX, I have to say that Log and 10 bit gets you very close most of the time. If Panasonic do right by us and put ARRI LogC in the S5iiX too, that's be even better. 🥰 Well done, dude, great video.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
I really appreciate the kind words! Means a lot! Especially coming from a raw user, this was all quite new to me!
@SNKFA 2 ай бұрын
Panasonic will likely add Arri Log C once they meet their GH7 sales goals
@DmitriFilms 2 ай бұрын
I've had my Lumix S5IIX for over a year now. When it finally came to me buying an external monitor, I went for the Hollyland Mars M1. Yes there are benefits to capturing RAW with the video assist, but at that point, you might as well get a BMD L mount camera. The HDMI (especially when you enable RAW recording) is really bad for when you're shooting narrative projects. Plus the camera is capable of doing ProRes 422 HQ. Does this mean I'm gonna get the benefits of RAW? No! Will the camera be capable of pulling off remarkable footage? Absolutely! But when dealing with RAW, you might as well go for a camera that does it natively.
@psysword Ай бұрын
I shoot movies with my ninja v plus all day in raw. It's awesome. Just huge files and the extra expenses of SSD
@AllThingsFilm1 2 ай бұрын
I like the idea of having access to a raw video format. But, for the most part, I think 10-bit is enough. As a visual effects artist on 40+ feature films, we worked with 10-bit DPX sequences 99.9% of the time. While raw video files can be very large, I think having the extra latitude in post can be advantageous if you want more control over the look you're going for. And having worked with BRAW with a BMPCC4K, I really came to love working with BRAW.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Love this! Thanks for the input!
@jdfilmzyyc 2 ай бұрын
Thank you for taking the time to make this video!
@psysword Ай бұрын
Apple pro res Raw user here. Brilliant colors
@j.b.7133 2 ай бұрын
You have no idea how helpful / fun this video was to follow. Exactly what I needed. Have a great day!
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Thanks so much!
@LiamMarskog 2 ай бұрын
With the S5IIX specifically you also get rid of the in camera processing which is quite aggressive compared to the original S-series cameras if you shoot RAW which is nice. Plus the richness of the colors, the color fidelity is just better. Probably won't be noticeable on instagram but if you want the best of the best RAW is the way to go. Great video :)
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Nice, thanks for your input!
@LiamMarskog 2 ай бұрын
@@dunnadidit thanks for the video :)
@ckhicks Ай бұрын
Sigma fp user here - cameras with internal RAW make me so jealous. 😂 I prefer to burn through SSDs for my small projects just to have the flexibility but that might change if I had a better starting point. This was a great, detailed explanation and test of each reason to use the format that matches your work(flow). Great job mate, I expected no less!
@ZidaneSteiner 2 ай бұрын
For me its definitely not worth it. But it does require more work upfront to shoot in some log format. Gotta nail the exposure and white balance, but if you're good at that, then it's no issue.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Thats a great point!
@Runstv 2 ай бұрын
one of the biggest pros of braw is its ability to be edited so easy in post as in the actual decoding and encoding of footage by the cpu .you can edit full resolution without proxies. the amount of time you can save is enormous and I think its so underated in my opinion. no other codec plays back and is as editable as braw.
@psysword Ай бұрын
Apple pro res Raw?
@Fortuphotography 2 ай бұрын
Cool video with good information. Can be done like shooting all in braw, then a base grade to rec 709, then converting them in smaller files like Prores. Then the Kelvin is good balanced. A great thing about the S5ii and X is the small file size it delivers with an amazing quality. Using it for events and then bringing it to a higher level with the braw in bigger productions together with black magic cameras. coming from the 8 bit video era.. this is crazy!
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Feels kind of wild right!?
@ClaudioDesideriFilms Ай бұрын
It was amazing to see all the tests and thanks for making them! It's interesting that RAW comes with some caveats, which I was not aware of, but that won't stop me from trying and shooting RAW asap!😂
@RKKY-mf7fe 2 ай бұрын
BRaw is definitely worth it. I've pulled back super under exposed footage with some heavy noise reduction, while under the same conditions Sony 10bit turns to mush . Im invested in both systems so I'm not biased.
@gbppro9143 2 ай бұрын
Same here. Do you have a version without background music during the instructional parts? The audio is distracting. Love the software process info and the detailed comparisons!
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Unfortunately there’s not much I can do about it now. Even if I did have an alternative version. I just watched it back and listened but the music seemed okay to me, I wonder if it’s just a difference between my listening environment and yours though.
@jeremypope-levison721 Ай бұрын
Awesome video. I love shooting braw on the s5 ii x. One thing i will say is shooting at 8:1 or 12:1 is still fine for most things, and saves a lot of space compared to 3:1
@psysword Ай бұрын
What are these ratios as a newbie?
@MrJayclas Ай бұрын
Exceptional break down! Thank you for your service 🫡
@AndreBerg99 8 күн бұрын
Your very impressive video proves the old rule: Do it right the first time (while filming) and you don‘t have to fix it in post. Saves much space and time… I had with my Lumixes the same alternative - just decided to stay with prores… and keep on filming as correct as possible. Lens correction and maybe denoising each and every clip seems to me overkill in workload.
@firstlastfilm 2 ай бұрын
I think 420 vs 12-1 compression would have been a more reasonable comparison. Blackmagic recommend 3-1 for high end work (TV ads, features etc). For KZfaq 12-1 is closer to your current workflow and size. It has the all the benefits of RAW and any loss in quality will be hidden in KZfaq compression. Good video, though.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Maybe for another video! Thanks for watching!
@keithce 2 ай бұрын
@@dunnadidit Indeed! Another video diving deeper into the different compression options! Also as a caveat to those options...what's the system performance impact of working with Quicktime vs. BRAW and then different levels of compression in BRAW?
@Mr_Moka 2 ай бұрын
RAW recording isn't always about quality. It has a lot to do with control. For example the "color noise" you spoke about can very easily be cleaned up without losing a lot of or any texture. The ability to have this kind of control after the fact is what makes RAW recording (especially BRAW) worth it.
@thatvideoguy4k 2 ай бұрын
I have been curious about it since I got my s5iix, I had the chance to get the black magic monitor but I went with the ninja v, and man how I regret it now as I use Resolve to edit my videos. Thanks for the video bro very clarifying and straight to the point 👍
@RafalGendarz 2 ай бұрын
I switched from a7iv to bmcc6k and yes braw12 is so much better color, but blackmagic has better color science than panasonic even if both use braw
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
I’m stoked to try the PYXIS soon!
@roscosart1888 Ай бұрын
And your audience wouldn't care, color is subjective.
@RafalGendarz Ай бұрын
@@roscosart1888 there is much more, like less digital iq due to no noise-reduction applied in-camera.
@billyoung9538 2 ай бұрын
Just a heads up regarding file size BRAW Constant Quality Q5 has been tested to offer the best overall image bang per GB, and was able to almost perfectly match Constant Bitrate 3:1 in image quality, but with roughly half the file size, because it's far more dynamic about how it deals with the compression.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Good to know! Thanks!
@skadoosh15 2 ай бұрын
Damn, that was a great informative content about RAW👏 Great job
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for watching!
@Studiotek Ай бұрын
For theater screens, RAW is basically a necessity... but for 90% of content, 10-bit is enough.
@cinematools9621 2 ай бұрын
The biggest advantage of RAW, in my opinion, is that it has almost zero processing and retains the original texture of the image. H265 removes fine detail and struggles with movement even at high bitrates.
@azfilmmaking6734 Ай бұрын
If you shoot everything right as it should look in the final clip you can go with 8bit. The more you do color correction the more depth and color information you need.
@nightdonutstudio 2 ай бұрын
1. a lot easier to fix white balance. 2. no noise reduction so you have to do denoise in post. 3. highlight recovery feature helps
@leedonohue 2 ай бұрын
wait what? is that actual 16 bit? i thought braw was always 12 bit?
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
No you’re right, It's 12 bit log decoded as 16 bit linear. So you're actually only recording 12 from my understanding.
@Joshua_S 2 ай бұрын
iam pretty sure only sony can do true 16 bit raw in the venice. Red is 12bit log too.
@errol3184 2 ай бұрын
@@Joshua_Ssony's raw is 16 bit linear. Red code is also recorded as 16 bit linear but this is what I have read a million times. Where do you encounter red's raw as 12 bit log? ArriRaw is 12bit log...now a bit more due to the dr in the 35...no pun. The 35 is supposed to be like 13 bit or something like that to fit the extra dr.
@Joshua_S 2 ай бұрын
For a better whitebalance fix for hard situations try "chromatic adaptation" plugin in resolve. Try that on your cool balanced test shot. I would be interested how it worked out.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Interesting! I’ll have to look into it!
@AllThingsFilm1 2 ай бұрын
At 12:12, you're talking about the yellow cast in your skin. However, looking down at the HDR color wheels below the viewport, the far right "Global" wheel has been adjusted towards yellow. Could that be influencing the yellow cast in your skin? Just checking.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
That adjustment on the color wheels was to correct the white balance in the image. So the idea was that AFTER correcting white balance, my skin looks green/yellow. I think I just cut out some of the context cause I figured people didn’t want to watch me correct white balance several times 😂
@myownfriend23 Ай бұрын
Remember that's only at 3:1. You have other options that are still going to have the same color grading ability. If you shoot at 12:1 then your BRAW files will be 1/4th the size. At Q5, the datarate will vary between 1/2 to 1/5th the data-rate of 3:1. Likewise if you're recording something that's really high detail, Q0 can go up to datarates that are higher than 2:1. If you're shooting something in low-light that's really noisy, shooting at Q0 will be the best option to prevent any compression from removing any signal that's under the noise. Shooting at Q0 with the highest resolution your camera can do will allow you to recover way more signal from that footage when using noise reduction. In this case, noise reduce at 5.9K, then downsample to 4K to average additional noise. The result you get will be much cleaner and sharper than you can get in-camera. It's a lot but definitely not overkill when you're shooting a light starved scene.
@dunnadidit Ай бұрын
Great points! Thanks for chiming in!
@Cameraonthemove669 Ай бұрын
What was the resolution and codec shot here. The 6K open gate gives the Lumix the most dynamic range but is only 4:2:0 internally
@marcoe1400 2 ай бұрын
Great video and very informative. If there was a way to directly save to a SSD i would probably try and even use it from time to time. But buying an extra recorder is a bit overkill for an amateur like myself 😉
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
I hear that! I’m sure it’s coming soon with some of these cameras.
@MR.JAYELALO 2 ай бұрын
BUY A BLACKMAGIC, OR A GH7 THAT RECORDS APPLEPRORES RAW INTERNALLY
@Kobrakameraid Ай бұрын
10 bit is really good if you are not shooting a feature film or mega documentary/wildlife, you already knew how the look you want. Most of us whom use this kind of cameras knew how to expose correctly and set white balance correctly. Even if we screw normally never more than 2 stop and never than 200 kelvin away. Its totally fixable on 10 bit. Dont used raw if you just shoot for a small commercial, wedding video, or vlog. That just very stupid decisions. Raw are for those cinematographer who doesnt have to do anything on post. Because they have dedicated editing team; from data wrangler, assistant editor who will dwcode, ingest, and foldering sequence, offline editor, online editor, colorist. KZfaqr dont need this. People who need raw already knew this stuff.
@KennyomarGarcia Ай бұрын
I'm new to DaVinci, there's a conversion LUT you can add to the node called V-Log to V-709. Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using that instead of converting to Davinci V-Gamut + Wide Gamut? Thanks in advance.
@skymakai 2 ай бұрын
I've found 10-bit log to be extremely flexible, able to correct white balance over 1000 Kelvin to match shots. I'll still shoot raw in terrible, unpredictable lighting conditions, but otherwise it hasn't been worth the file sizes. That isn't to say I wouldn't want internal raw if Sony enabled it. But I'd prefer a better, cine style, HDMI info output first. Canon and Nikon's HDMI info output is SO much cleaner.
@psysword Ай бұрын
I'm a film maker so have to go raw
@MrCoffis 2 ай бұрын
On your colour space transform you used the wrong settings. You should be using BM design Gen 4/ Gen 5 wide gamut as input colour space instead of the davinci wide gamut. You’d think there’s no difference between them but there is. Especially the red rendition is different that would explain the differences in colour on your skin.
@watzmaaname 2 ай бұрын
Love camera related testing videos, when done well; and this was one of them. Relevant scenarios tested and presented with clarity. As for myself (an amateur filmmaker), RAW is overkill. Not to mention, the additional post-processing required such as NR which will bog down my base level Mac. 10 bit is enough and easier to edit/process and I should be focussing on perfecting my shooting techniques. However, I find myself constantly desiring RAW, thinking it's absolutely essential to get the best IQ - which is only required in cases of larger productions. Anyhow, the industry is headed that way with the GH7 and Z6III both having internal RAW. Within the next few years, all video-centric cameras will have RAW internally and monitors like the Ninja V and BMVA won't be necessary.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
I totally hear you and I agree that we’ll see a lot more internal raw coming soon I bet
@watzmaaname 2 ай бұрын
@@dunnadidit Good stuff!
@JaymesMedia 2 ай бұрын
I'm happy that people are getting over the KZfaqr misconception that Log Profile is enough because it's not. Yes it's going to depend on the situation but never limit yourself. The only way to get over those misconceptions is to shoot Raw. Don't worry about the file sizes, storage is cheaper. Just gin do it , make mistakes and get better. Also I like how efficient you are becoming at grading and DaVinci resolve, I can tell you've been learning a lot and it's really showing.
@he.smile_ 2 ай бұрын
The improvements between 12bit Log and RAW are pretty small. If someone is debating between paying for more storage for RAW and paying for more lights/crew/production design/etc, 100% go with the latter
@JaymesMedia 2 ай бұрын
@@he.smile_ what camera shoot 12-Bit Log? Nearly all camera Log profiles are 10-Bit unless you use a Ninja to shoot in ProRes 444.
@JaymesMedia 2 ай бұрын
@@he.smile_actually I’m wrong about the ninja v shooting ProRes 444, that’s my fault for not checking first.
@moneyboys2010 2 ай бұрын
Thanks for this detailed comparison Bro, if it wasn’t for the White Balance… I wouldn’t say it was not be worth it due to the space requirements of BRAW.
@markfry5867 2 ай бұрын
only comparison needed is proves internal or with tiny ssd vs raw external with big clunky. monitor...this is comparison needed
@od628 2 ай бұрын
There is definitely a huge difference from 8 bit 4.2.0 versus 10 bit 4.2.2. The difference between raw and 10 bit 4.2.2 is not worth the hassle especially the file size. In my opinion, you would have to royally mess up your exposure to not be able to "fix" your footage with 10 bit 4.2.2. Interesting video and well done. 👍
@mike_s_media 2 ай бұрын
Pro Res Raw records the same way on the Ninja V (16 bit linear to 12 bit). I could never feel or see any difference playing around with the footage but I also wasn't pushing any extremes in lighting or anything like that.
@errol3184 2 ай бұрын
External also gets rid of the internal processing. I think it's more of a cine cam look. Also, no nr. Everyone talks about how they want to shut that off sometimes. No sharpening. Less of a morrorless look. This and the jump from HD to 4k was the main reason to use the ninja v with the original a7s.
@Madtography 2 ай бұрын
If 95% of clients work these days end up (highly compressed) on social media in 9:16 full hd, why bother with raw? ;)
@psysword Ай бұрын
Cinema
@PS-ys9yg 23 күн бұрын
I cant see so much difference with highlight recovery really...a lot of extra equipment for a little bit of difference.
@liamhewitson417 2 ай бұрын
That's only 12 bit though. It's 16bit linear but 12bit log. Not 16bit log which is the same as what the ninja does.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
True! I've changed my title since that seems to be throwing people off a bit.
@johnliquori 2 ай бұрын
Hey Dunna, do you usually shoot in H.264 or H.265?
@Jaskair 2 ай бұрын
Thanks! Easily understandable stuff. Only the background music is too loud, hard to try to listen what you say... 😅
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
I'll take that into consideration!
@enjoygary Ай бұрын
how is the s5ii vs the fx30?
@geoffreybassett6741 Ай бұрын
Whenever someone does this comparison without a large amount of detail or motion in the frame I cannot take them seriously.
@Shanefun 2 ай бұрын
Yeah misleading title. There is no 16 bit video being used for this video
@NicoTomatala 2 ай бұрын
But the metadata say it's 16bit, why is that?
@Shanefun 2 ай бұрын
@@NicoTomatala because its in a 16 bit wrapper. Blackmagic has said repeatedly though that BRAW is 12 bit. A wrapper is not the actual bit depth. It’s just like a box you put a gift in. When you open the box the actual present is inside.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Hey @Shanefun, definitely didn't mean to be misleading by any means. I chose that title because thats what the metadata was calling it in the software, but you're correct that it's technically 12 bit log and 16 bit linear. I've changed the title so hopefully it won't cause any confusion.
@Shanefun 2 ай бұрын
@@dunnadidit all good and yeah it can be confusing… that said, i do wish you had shown more of the pushing and pulling of the color bit depth, using color pickers and and looks to see how much of a difference even 10 bit vs 12 bit makes. I mean outside of white balance and a little highlight recovery, the difference didn’t look extreme. Also, why not use 422 10 bit? I mean that should make a difference in bringing the colors back to normal and almost all cameras post 2022 have that codec in them.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Yeah, I hear you, I can only do so much in one video though or people don’t watch haha. So maybe another time. The 4:2:0 thing was just to make the closest match between what I could do internally vs externally. Plus, when I use the S5iix most of the time, I shoot in open gate 6k which is also 4:2:0 so this was a familiar test to actually compare against MY typical workflow.
@RustyShackleford9000 2 ай бұрын
If you’re using 4:2:0 10 bit, why even compare it to raw? I literally unliked and clicked off the video as soon as you stated you didn’t use 4:2:2, because you’re comparing a sub-par compressed codec to raw… why? Why not at least compare raw to 10 bit 4:2:2
@watzmaaname 2 ай бұрын
Why not? The content is helpful to a lot of people to understand if a RAW workflow is even needed. I, for a fact, am always tempted to try and shoot RAW but it's far too much hassle for small gains. For amateur and small-production filmmakers, a RAW workflow is absolutely unnecessary.
@RustyShackleford9000 2 ай бұрын
@@watzmaaname my point isn’t that analyzing a RAW workflow is bad, my point is at least compare it to be highest compressed codec type, not a 4:2:0 that’s not even the best example of a compressed codec.
@watzmaaname 2 ай бұрын
@@RustyShackleford9000 Right. I don't mean to argue but that particular point (422 in place of 420) does not affect the content presented. IMHO, I don't know where it would matter as there's negligible difference between 420 and 422. I enjoy such discussions, hence the enthusiasm and do not intend to be rude. Wish you well!
@RustyShackleford9000 2 ай бұрын
@@watzmaaname 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 is the chroma subsampling and has a huge impact on color representation… and even if you personally think that a 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 difference is minimal, the point still stands: why not at least compare the best compressed codec to raw, not an inferior one, and even if the difference is small
@watzmaaname 2 ай бұрын
@@RustyShackleford9000 I am not an expert so won't argue the chroma subsampling difference. Why not use highest quality codec? The 6K24 internal in the S5IIx is H265 10 bit 420. To get 422, he would have to shoot 4K. Since RAW is in 6K, he chose 6K H265 codec to carry out a fair comparison I believe.
@BootStrapTurnerVideography 2 ай бұрын
Now to resume the eternal debate, ProRes RAW or BlackMagic RAW?
@heynow2880 2 ай бұрын
Naw!! I will stick with my A7Siii 10 bit internal. There is no difference with 12 bit using a Atamos. Still king!!
@tube-master 2 ай бұрын
Looks complicated. At least for me
@DigiDriftZone 2 ай бұрын
It's a shame you're comparing 4:2:0 10bit to RAW and not 4:2:2, the latter actually makes quite a sizeable difference. -- Also indeed H265 has a slight colour shift, on Sony as well, comparing H264 and H265, giving H264 the appropriate 2x the bitrate to match, you get a slight colour shift on the H265, not sure why.
@dunnadidit 2 ай бұрын
Yeah, I typically shoot the 6k open gate on the S5iix which is 4:2:0. So this test was the closest match to “my workflow vs raw” kind of thing. But that’s also interesting to hear about h.265 too.
@Wildridefilms 2 ай бұрын
6k 4:2:0 has slightly more chroma resolution than 4k 4:2:2. Since most cameras only shoot 4k anyway, 6k 4:2:0 is not bad at all.
@KennyomarGarcia Ай бұрын
I shoot v-log with my S5IIx and always get that green weird look on the skin tones. Annoying 🤣🤣
@frankinblackpool 2 ай бұрын
Very interesting. My problem is even though I can shoot ProRes RAW my, weapon of choice, Davinci Rersolve will not play nicely with Adobe RAW. And I can't justify buying a Blackmagic monitor to go with my Atomos monitor for capturing BRAW. First world problems.🤣😂 May I ask if you've ever tested BRAW or Adobe RAW against Adobe ProRes 422 and see any significant difference in the two codecs?
@psysword Ай бұрын
You mean Apple and not adobe
@frankinblackpool Ай бұрын
@@psysword My bad. Cheers 😀
@roscosart1888 Ай бұрын
Not worth it unless you're getting paid the big bucks!
@maxsr3236 2 ай бұрын
I have to say that video quality is mostly overrated. If I notice some clipped highlights or slightly off colors/white balance while watching a video/movie, there is something seriously wrong with the content of the video. Same goes for focus breathing, rolling shutter and all that other stuff people like to make huge drama about.
@norfolknonsense7578 2 ай бұрын
This is not true for me. As soon as I learned colour grading I notice these flaws everywhere and can not unsee it. However, it doesn't mean it spoils an otherwise good video/movie.
@CaleMcCollough Ай бұрын
H.265 has a noise filter on it. I'm really unhappy I can't record p30 with my Sony FX30. You can only do p24/p25, p50/p60, and p120. That sucks. Makes me regret my purchase. I got rid of Canon for the cripple hammer and walked right back into it and lost my money. Yeah, I can use an external monitor, but that sucks because I want to record for KZfaq, which always coverts p24 to p30, which is stuttery. So I have to stick an external recording monitor on my FX30 to record to KZfaq? That sucks bad!!!
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