@aqua1014 reminded me the "guitar guy" is @SeedtoSage, and the video is here! - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hrploKdjv8qbdmw.html&ab_channel=SeedtoStage Also another good option that i haven't tried yet, but have heard good things is this RK006 - www.retrokits.com/shop/rk006/

Hey, while I don't own a multi clock, I believe you missed on major selling point of the multiclock: Normal usb to midi devices are pretty low priority in the computers internals, meaning that usb-packets with the midi out as destination might "get stuck" on the way and delayed, being transported irregularly. This leads to midi-jitter, an irregular midi-clock output from Ableton, where the precision of the clock is bad. The Multiclock fixes this by getting a clock-signal through a audio signal, which (as it is real time) is considered high-priority (along side with features like the external midi clock and shifting clocks, etc. )

Dude, so glad you didn’t edit out the frustration parts. Can’t even estimate how many hours I’ve spent trying to fix a software timing issue only to find it was one bad MIDI cable... Thanks for the well produced content. Keep up the good work (no matter how painful)!

Sums up music making perfectly. Trial, error and confusion.

This is the story of my musical career, spend one hour getting confused and fixing some some random shit..then I get it fixed and have no motivation left to make a tune. Rinse and repeat

-"what you doing honey" -"Just watching a guy having technical issues and killing it"

I like the editing and filming style, gets better every time!

not quite - the E-RM multiclock (and similar) are (mainly) about jitter not latency.... the issue is USB MIDI is sent over a usb control protocol which is not designed to be high priority on general purpose operating systems. E-RM (etc) get around this by sending thier sync information as 'audio' , audio intefaces use isosynchronous transfers which are guaranteed/real time by the OS. an alternative to get around this would be send clock signals as CV, which is of course 'audio' however, I will say, often MIDI is enough... depends on your setup a bit how much jitter you will get, often its ok :) ... so I do still think this video is really useful... delay compenstation is a bit of 'fun' to setup ;)

Beautiful 1st shot, Action, Suspens, Drama, Mystery....and a Dog. That's entertainment.

Every tim i see your vids its like hanging out with an good old friend. I love this vibe! Thank you for this

The guitar guy is Seed to Stage. He makes great videos as well! Thanks for the video Ricky, super helpful.

This was like water torture. I go through stuff like this ALL the time and here I am watching someone else have a frustrating time with this stuff. 2020 is weird 🤪😜😂

This was such a relief to watch. Thanks for not editing out the parts where you were stumped. I spent the last few days trying to get some of my gear to play in time with Ableton. It’s not like I can kick ideas around with family, friends or coworkers. I tend to get blank stares when I talk about my Latency issues lol 😂

I really love that you've included your hardware/software interfacing learning process, because I relate to it so hard. 👌👌👌

I’ve been spending silly time trying to fix timing between ableton and hardware. Good to hear your thought process on this topic

See, stuff like this is more educational and real for me than seeing somebody edit out all the troubleshooting Thanks for being so authentic with this

I had the same problem, couldn't afford a multiclock. So I build one myself, with an arduino, an audio input, midi input and midi-output. Used the plugin from the multiclock, synced the arduino to it, midiclock out: tightest midi-clock i've ever had out of Ableton. And done for less than 30 bucks.

This video is so freaking recognizable when you dabble in music making and want to sync up multiple devices into your sequencer or DAW.

Yep, this is the story of the electronic musician's life. Trying to get things that don't quite work (or don't work at all) to actually work the way we want them to so we can then get on with the process of actually making music! Thanks for sharing your whole real life process with this. Doesn't make me feel any smarter, but does make me feel like less of an idiot when it comes to mastering this technology.

Love the video. Great to see the experts work through issues. Thanks as always for the content.

Always interesting to see others troubleshoot issues. We're all in this together. Keep up the great work.

I use Overbridge to sync my Digitone over USB via the plugin. This is done with the Sync + Transport dropdown in OB enabled, NOT via sending Sync to the DN through Ableton’s MIDI settings. I think this is the distinction that allows OB to mimic the ERM Multiclock in its stability. The DN then feeds its stable clock to my Octatrack and other synths via a Midi Solutions THRU box. Rock solid and in sync from Bar 1! It’s great because sync continues to send to my other devices even when transport is stopped, which was not the case with the USB to MIDI adapter I used to run into the OT from Live. I laughed so hard at the troubleshooting part of this video because prior to this config, I’ve been in Ricky’s shoes SO MANY TIMES banging my head against the wall tangled up in MIDI cables trying to understand what was going wrong and why nothing was in sync, especially factoring audio latency into the situation. My revelations RE: External Instrument: To utilize the Ext Instrument latency comp advantages more easily, in my template set, I have one muted midi track with an Instrument Rack full of Ext Inst. listening to all my Overbridge tracks, *and* my interface inputs, which are connected to my OT and some other gear. The audio tracks I record everything to are grabbing audio from those Ext Inst devices, Pre/Post FX (not Post Mixer). There might be some caveats/edge cases to this as I need to confirm my other settings (I may have done a little light tweaking to the hardware latency settings in each Ext Inst instance), but with this configuration, I think no matter what monitoring settings are active on the audio tracks I record to, things are magically synced when I zoom into the grid. Between this and the DN clock, it’s made things so much better, and I don’t spend hours confused and struggling with tracks getting cut off on bar 1 or being late! MIDI is a hell of a drug!!!!!

I'm glad you posted this without preparation because this is exactly how it feels sometimes.

Haha, I'm only halfway through, but this is already one of my favorite episodes. It's refreshing to see you being just a normal person dealing with regular equipment issues...

I so totally relate to everything about this. And thank you for showing the whole process of going around and around with settings in what you said was "boring" - just to find that nothing really worked. It's easy to edit out the frustration & show instant success, which would be misleading. Very instructive for people to see that it's not all "push button, receive music" there's sometimes a bit of work to get there! 👍 Liked!

thank you so much, the tip where you highlight the section to adjust the sync was priceless. Man that help me so much. you are the man

Hi everyone. All USB2MIDI or soundcards with MIDI, basically every MIDI connection from PC/MAC has problems with jitter and no DAW can get rid off it. There is only one way and thats audio 2 midi like ERM Multiclock or Expert Sleepers USAMO etc. On windows its worse then on Mac I think. MIDI has no priority in the OS and you can nothing do about it. Maybe ARM Macs could handle this better. So the workaround is always an audio stream which gets the MIDI information because this stream is sample accurate. You can setup everything without audio2MIDI and it just works but if you connect maybe a keyboard or you change the hardware in the pc you have to do it again. Even software updates can destroy the latency.

Thanks for taking this topic apart and for the audio from the external instrument channel trick. I'll check this out.

Cheers Ricky, always great to see others having these kinds of issues. - 2 weeks ago, I returned to my pre-2015 DAWless setup, - an MPC60ii, ASQ-10, Mackie CR-1604vlz, various synthesizers, outboard and samplers, - now I just use my MacBook, Logic and Apogee as a stereo recorder, if and when I feel like recording the stereo outs from my mixer. DAWs and computers are great, don't get me wrong, but removing the laptop has left me feeling really refreshed from a sonic and sequencing perspective, and liberated technically. love to ALL, feel no hate

Glad to see I'm not the only one with these frustrating struggles. Thanks for not editing the 'WTH' moments out.

I know you predominantly focus on hardware but really appreciating these insights into Ableton as well. Love the wind turbine clip on the intro btw! Have a Merry Christmas everyone!! 🎄

This was so funny to watch, I literally have these problems every single time I turn my drum machines on

Thank you so much for this video dude. It helped me a lot actually. I've pretty much come to the point where I have just given up on proper sync inside of ableton live. This has cleared up a lot of my confusions. I always fiddled around with all kinds of latency compensation and never really got it to work properly lol. Really frustrating experience. So this video has helped since you clearly explained what technique you use for what kind of sync issues ..

Thank you for tips. They are what I had searched before and couln't finded .

The Ableton part is what I was trying to figure out this week with my new Marbles + lifeforms sv1b. Thanks Ricky.

thank you so much for this video. i didn't know that there is a drop down menu in the midi options to change the latency times. perfect, now my modular is on time.

I don't feel some dumb now... I've been there many times. Thanks Ricky, you made my day.

Man. Thanks for this. I found it so funny. Literally my night tonight was identical and I am still looking for answers. Hence I found your video. Brilliant!!!

Amazing video. Thanks

This is too good. Great tips for adjusting for latency. This sort of stuff happens to me all the time and I feel like way less of an idiot knowing it's not just me.

Watching this gave me so many ideas as to why my Drum Brute time is always a little off. BLESSS

lol rather than getting frustrated trying to solve my own ableton hardware latency problems i just watched 35 min you getting frustrated trying to do the same thing. but i guess misery loves company.

Thanks Ricky this is super useful for Ab-Live midi settings and tricks. Also a perfect example why I need a multi-clock.

Expert Sleepers Usamo is the one for me, kind of the same as the multiclock audio to midi .

Great video Ricky!! I have a Multi Clock that I got to connect the octatrack with a bunch of other synths/sequencers. I love watching you try and conquer the beast that is latency in Live. I've had the Multi Clock for sometime now and it getting it was a revelation for me in my setup. It's really the only way I could get everything to sync properly but damn is it expensive. Thanks for this!!

I think where the multiclock really shines and what you don’t address, is the syncing of ableton live clock with an audio track, so the sync is always spot on. If you have clips playing in ableton together with hardware, the sync between both will have a will of its own... turn on live’s metronome and hardware metronome and try to make them spot on without a multiclock! The multiclock ended about 10 years of frustration for me :)

Great video! Thanks for showing the messy stuff. I like to do all that syncing and trial and error creativity killer stuff the night before I need it. You can forget why you even stepped in the studio with issues like that. Then, after stepping away for a bit and returning to the studio, the creative session can begin effortlessly.

Love the sweet kick loop in the end 🥴🥰

I might be confused here, but the main benefit of the ERM is that you can use an audio stream via a plugin in your DAW which means that the clock is then rock-solid. They specifically say not to send out MIDI over USB, so it isn't just separating things out as you mentioned at the start. I had so much trouble synching up my Euro and other external bits of hardware to Logic's clock - not because of connections - but because the latency and jitter was so bad that it threw everything off with each other. I got the ERM and it has been perfect ever since. If not, I can tweak the individual components with the knobs.

that was a stunning opening shot

holy god the trick around <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="440">7:20</a> and later is S-tier. Just got my BeatStep Pro to track my MS-20 dead on with the Ableton metronome. Thank you for these hybrid home studio techniques, they're so handy for juggling lots of different paradigms all at the same time.

hey ricky, i really thank you for this video. some months ago i bought my first synth and was not really able to sync proper. 1. i know my mistakes now. 2. i know how to fix my issue. 3. i will be happy using my synth now with sequences not just sampling the sounds. i learnt a lot from this video!

This was one of the most useful videos Ricky my man, thank you🙏

Love this deep nuts a bolts troubleshooting. I feel like this is my life. Thanks!

Hey Ricky I really enjoyed this vid because it shows - unedited - the frustration that most of us go through on a daily basis in real time. Nice. So I have a couple of points about MIDI timing that someone else pointed out regarding USB MIDI. I don't know if it's still around, but there used to be a small PC app that tested MIDI latency, MIDI Jitter, and average deviation. I don't recall what it was called, and it might not work on modern Windows versions. Anyway, long story short, on any MIDI port you'd connect the IN to the OUT and it measured the amount of time for signals to go out and back. It was super useful and verified that basically ALL USB MIDI connections suffered pretty badly. The most accurate MIDI ports were those based on a PCI/PCIe connection (either standalone or as part of a PCI/PCIe audio interface). The next most accurate were old-school serial/parallel ports, and then finally USB. At the time I had access to one of each of the above and did some comparative tests. The difference was not only obvious, it was audibly noticeable to my ears anyway. So, this had actually changed a bit when I retested a couple of years later. The *reason* the USB interfaces suffered so badly back then had entirely to do with a motherboard's USB controller chip. Long story short, the last few generations of USB controller chips overcame the deficiencies of previous ones by a *mile*, and the 2 or 3 that I tested all fell within a much tighter tolerance. For a few years I was a 'never use USB MIDI' snob, but I pretty much got over it once the controller chips improved. I imagine a PCIe (and probably Thunderbolt) MIDI port's timing is still superior but not to the same degree. When I was looking at the results I was getting early on, I realized that while a *nuisance*, MIDI Latency can always be compensated for. The ERM lets you do this and that's great. The *real* enemy is MIDI Jitter as there's no way I know of you can fix that. Again, I appreciated the vid with all its inherent frustration. :) thanks!

love when you teach us how to fix problems that we all rip our hair out trying to figure out lol thanks pal keepem coming!

I thought it was very interesting to watch you figure it out. Also, your dog is pretty great. :)

Very accurate, why have a multi-clock for single-chain devices when there are other options that will suffice. For us, the multi clock came into its full potential when used to control 2 x MC707s and 2 x TR8s machines in a live environment. Having that control is great so that you can lock in the timing. This way we could use each clock to drive a device and then chain a sub device off each unit (2 x TD3s and 2 x Korg Monologues). Everything is kept tight and we move between the two sets of kit, like we are mixing between decks. It allows us to load up new projects on the 707s (something you can't do without stopping the machine and waiting for it to load)

Love the reality here. The "what in the world....?" moments are exactly what its like getting kit set up far too often. Having to break down and debug the most arcane issue in even the simplest setups. The combinations of possible erroneous connections from the software to the physical ports is the most hair pulling "chain of trust" that inevitably goes wrong at the peak of creativity. I feel far more sane watching this :) Feels like we need enterprise software level test management suites in our studios sometimes :) THANKS for this one.

I know this video is 2 years old, but it helped so much. I'm still buying an ERM (I want to add gear), but I was able to replicate what you did near the end within Reaper - using a track to record MIDI only and routing that to a separate record track. I had to adjust the MIDI output timing by 10ms and my recordings are dead-on now. I tried using Reaper's "External Instrument" (ReaInsert plugin), but was constantly pinging to get updated delay compensation figures. The secret is not monitoring through your DAW. Thanks for the valuable info.

Not so topic related but I like the look of your video! It has the perfect balance of enough background lighting and a modern look! Thanks for sharing this.

As far as I know the daw's are not able to generate tight clock signals. USB midi also generates latency as the informations has to be processed on the receiverside using some form of internal USB interface. There are other (cheap) options but you would have to get into programming microcontrollers for that. Alternatively get Pamelas new workout from ALM which does a stable midi clock as well. I did never experience midiclock from the DAW being stable. There are inconsistencies during play (record 64 bars and check the notes) and the offset isn't consistent either (different next time you start a new project). Just my experience with this. When sending notes the problem is way less (as you showed with the external instrument) but if you are relying on the hardware to sync to a sync signal (and e3specially with elektron stuff I would always use the internal sequencer die to parameter- and soundlocks) the problem is there.

Thanks for keeping the part where you are struggling with midi clock and note latency and the different strategies to handle it in Live.

This was helpful, thanks. I have all my midi going into a Iconnectivity Mio XL , which does a pretty decent job. It's not cheap, but it's pretty clever

Would be nice to see a full demonstration of you using ERM multi clock and synchronising your gear with your DAW? 🙏❤️ 🙏❤️

Loving the video! I laughed a few times when the clock was funky. Been there several times. Lol

That self talk is pretty much a universal language. 🎵 “Out.. to the Innn.”🎵

Thanks for this because I was wondering

I feel your pain ricky! when you said things were getting boring, it was actually the part that really grabbed my attention, as I am going through this a lot too. Appreciate you doing this. There is clearly a problem here and maybe the right product can really solve this. the erm just isn't a perfect solution due to its price.

No don’t listen to this! Get a side gig cutting lawns save the money for the Multiclock! I have owned two and hated myself for selling the first one! Your time is much more valuable than messing with these imposters! 😂

As i hit play after pausing to write my first comment you just answered my question in the coment.Great Video thx.

Perfect Circuit!

I have a older USB interface just like the Hosa and it only works right (with my MPC 3000) if I have both IN/OUT cables hooked up to the MIDI IN/OUTS on my MPC. With only the MIDI IN cable plugged in like in this video the MPC will NOT start the sequence. Love your videos man!

Merry Christmas

Been toying with the Cycles for weeks and came up with the exact same method for recording!

This is SO COOL. Thanks for bringing us along on your "Boring" ride.

Old synths work very well with that Hosa cable! For example my nord modular! They have a pc in and pc out port in the back. Converting with midi to tRs I think was the problem in your process since you need booth somehow to make it work!

Everyone, RETROKITS RK006! Just over £100 and it syncs everything! Get on it!

This is me at my studio desk. Only I'd be cussing a bunch.

For me the trouble is less the latency and motre the timing inconsistencies that are better or worse depending on OS version, interface, what software is running, but are always there and are more or less baked into the USBstandard. I ended up getting an Expert Sleepers Usamo a couple years ago and dedicating that to clock, with my old MOTU interface as a router in standalone mode and it works beautifully - the first time I've been able to get clock from a PC that's as tight as the internal clock in the Octatrack or MPC2000 or an Atari ST and I can't recommend it enough. If I could afford an ERM Multiclock I'd more likely put the money toward getting the smallest Eurorack case I could find and putting Expert Sleepers ES-40 and ESX-8MD modules in it instead, the whole MIDI-over-audio approach just works very, very well in my experience.

The Expert Sleepers USAMO is a smaller and cheeper alternative to the Multiclock, if you only need one channel. Generally it works the same way (a plugin sends a special signal via audio out to an external box) AND it fixes clock and MIDI note informations.

This 35 minutes sums up every time I think it's a good idea to go create in a daw. Frustration, confusion, hatred, get it to work finally. Then I am so burnt out on technical crap I shut the computer down & forget about making music.

I've had success using the M-Audio USB to Midi cable. Works really well for all my drum machines and synths with ableton

Trouble-shooting is a must! Good video with a thumbs up. Maybe in the near future you could make a video on your headphones? Kinda curious about those.

THIS IS THE MOST USEFUL VIDEO I HAVE SEEN FOR MONTHS

This is hilarious man. So damn relatable. I always feel like an idiot as I fall further down the rabbit hole and get even more confused. Respect. Also nice mechanical kb, I have the same one.

I think your surmise was correct. I used one of those for drum note info for a short time because my interface took a crap. I borrowed the interface from a buddy, it had no midi jacks. The cable didn't last very long.

In my experience the key to handle latency is (a) understand in detail what Ableton "magically" does for you given the combinations of all the different options given the different monitoring-states and (b) knowing your priorities (latency free live playing, having everything track in sync, live monitoring with plugins, etc) and optimising in that direction. Only if you're still not satisfied after that it's worth getting a dedicated hardware device IMHO - and you benefit from the knowledge you've accumulated on that path so far anyway. But it's a hot mess, especially when adding Overbridge as another puzzle piece. PS: track delay is evil and should be avoided when possible

Old guy here...in the '90s, getting your PC midi sequencer (I used Cubase VST 3.5) to send out reliable timing clock and notes to arrive on time to hardware synths through an old serial or USB MIDI interface (I had 2 MIDISPORT 8x8s) was tricky. Computers had all sorts of issues with prioritising stuff, dropping notes, stuff drifting, etc. because the technology was new-ish and not up to snuff unless you had top of the line hardware, like nice SCSI hard drives, lots of expensive RAM, etc. External clock devices (such as the ERM Multiclock, although we had other things back then) allowed computer sequencers to focus on firing MIDI notes and playing audio while it slaved to the timing signal. There were lots of people still using hardware sequencers, so it wasn't unheard of to have that act as the master clock. I had heard of people (although I never witnessed it personally) keeping older Atari ST computers around in their studios because the MIDI was apparently so reliable on it. Edit: as I watch your video and the wackiness that's happening with the Hosa USB 422 device, this kind of nonsense was a common occurrence with computer MIDI in the '90s. I can't believe they still haven't figured it out.

I use the expert sleepers usamo to sync MPC's to logic. Its cheap and super tight. Love the video's mate. Merry Christmas

I loved this because it's what happens to me every time i try something new. It won't work properly jajajja good vid!

Beautiful studio

Hey Ricky! Thanks for the latency tips, really needed some for Live 🙏 BTW, have you tried any MIDI Solutions products? Like the Quadra Thru. Or even MOTU’s MIDI Express? While they do not let you change latency individually, I think that they’re quite good MIDI hubs.

I use the Expert Sleepers USAMO. It takes a little time to make it work, but it works flawlessly once you have everything dialed in. Results may vary, of course.

That brings back so many memories.. syncing gear over MIDI can be an absolute pain in the ass. Weirdest issue I've ever had was with the Tanzbär.. only got it to work by pure luck when I routed it through the BCR2000. Connecting directly to my interface's MIDI-OUT always had issues... took me about 6 months until I figured this out. Still absolutely no idea why it only works this way...

MAKE A DRUM MACHINE MASTER => SLAVE THE COMPUTER Have you tried that? you need to get the KENTON THRU-5 (1 x midi-in, 5 x midi out = 70€) and then: Drum Machine => Midi Thru-5 => to your computer AND all your other synths. you do start/play from the Drum Maschine and record in the computer. If you want to add a layer to what you recorded, everything would be on time. this is because drum Machines have a stable clock, Computers just don't. Greetings from Berlin!

I have been in this type of hell :) You have my sympathies :) The latest was being baffled by the Beatstep Pro losing master status. I was chasing the problem from device to device, blaming leads, interference, blah blah blah, and then found that I just needed to restart the RK006 after starting the BSP. Problem solved :)

another alternative that not many people talk about is the Expert Sleepers ES-5 , you can out put sync and triggers in any form you want and and it will output midi which is spot on as both midi and sync come out as audio so the same latency as your audio out , plus you've got loads of cv outs to do what you want with

I don't feel so bad about myself now. Liked and subscribed

Ricky! Thanx so much for everything. I owe u so much bro. I was wondering lately since I’ve been doing tv recording- how do u record ur voice on the tutorial ? Is there a neck mic? A boom? What’s up?