That’s a brilliant explanation, Roy. It all becomes clear now 👍

I, too, use a countdown timer. Mine can be set to ½, one, two or four hours, so that I can plug it in, and then make a judgment on how much charge time I should set, without "overcooking" the battery.

You shouldnt charge the battery constantly but you can "load" it a few hours over the recharge time. Using a Bosch powerpack 400. Driving also under 0 degree celsius because i put a neopren case around it. And the battery is stored always around 15 to 20c.

You’ll love it, Simon.

Wind speeds doesn't make the air colder. It makes the air feel colder on skin, because it strips away the heat you radiate from your body, but no change in terms of temperature.

Thanks! The group will envy you on the climbs 😀 Enjoy your new bike!

Thank Matthias. I thought I’d use a more interesting background for a change 🙂

@@RideWithRoy mission accomplished 👍. Take care buddy!

That’s good to know, Patrick, because that’s what I was doing before I researched this.

Thanks and welcome, Roger.

You kept them in your home, that’s the last place I would keep them

Can you take it to another X35 dealer? It could well be the notorious over voltage issue that just requires a firmware upgrade. If you connect the Mahle app it will show the precise number of FULL charges, which is likely to be less than your estimate. I would then send the dated image to Mahle customer service and state that the “product does not meet my reasonable expectations”. This covers you for six years after purchase but you have to prove their fault - which the image should do. If you need any help with this just let me know. Perhaps this is how the dealer gets refurbished batteries….

@@RideWithRoy excellent info Roy. The big problem I had was the app would not communicate with the bike so the bluetooth had gone down as part of the problem. The dealer managed to get limited communication through the dealer app but it seems there is a lot more to these battery systems than just storing a lot of electrons. The battery would charge, indicated through the iwoc but no power would go to the motor. However you are absolutely correct that the product does not meet my reasonable expectations

Even more reason to discuss with Mahle. Good luck and let us know how you get on, please.

That’s interesting, I’ve never had that happen. I believe leaving the app connected will also drain it.

I had that too whichs says there no power cutoff once charged

Yes, Sean, I have, and it’s rarely the battery that has failed. It’s likely that it’s a firmware problem. If that’s the case, it will need to be handled by a dealer that has the necessary cable interface. Mahle tell me that any X35 equipped dealer can do this for you, so maybe there will be someone local to you. If you don’t get any help from your supplier, then get in touch with Mahle customer services, who are usually very helpful.

Very wise, so many people charge their battery indoors, and also store the battery indoors, and some even charge their battery overnight, when they are in bed, they are putting their lives, and their families lives at risk, it amazes me, especially with all the E bike fires, and the warnings that are given about not doing these things, Lesley Rudd, chief executive of Electrical Safety First, said that a fire caused by a battery bursting into flames is “unique” and requires “special measures”. “The huge amount of energy that is released over time when a battery bursts into flames is unlike other fires - in a matter of minutes a room can be decimated,” So just use common sense when charging your battery, and stay safe. I would also check, in the unlikley event of a battery fire, that you are covered by your home insurance.

No, my battery is in the bike and that is not allowed inside 🙂

I think it worth backing up your comment with this official advice from the National Fire Chiefs Council, Robert. tinyurl.com/yw4wryez I must admit to not having a smoke sensor in the garage, but I’ll be getting one. I no longer charge overnight, although that is more for convenience that fire risk.

That’s annoying, Howard. I hope they come through with warranty. I must say that’s the first total battery failure I’ve heard of - if it is the battery. One other owner told me their battery stopped working and their retailer couldn’t fix it. It turned out to just need a firmware update and was fine afterwards. I suspect that may be the case with yours as it seems odd that it should stop suddenly. With regard to the 100% charge, that’s only an issue if you are not using the bike for a while. Indeed, it should be charged to 100% at times, but just before you use it. If I’m riding it the next day I always charge to 100%. Bear in mind that all e bikes will have to be treated the same way, and not just the X35 system. I don’t think the X35 is delicate. In fact, I find it quite robust. I had some teething problems early on, but it has worked like a dream ever since. The only drawback is the fact that the battery can’t be removed for charging, but as I said in the video, that can be worked around in cold weather. I do hope Ribble cure the problem quickly and your faith is restored. Please let us know how they perform and what the problem was.

@@RideWithRoy Thanks Roy, Ribble just confirmed they have fixed it without charging although they think I ran it flat and stored it for a long period (I didn't). I don't need the assistance any more so I am selling it. Hopefully it will help someone else.

What size frame is it, Howard?

@@RideWithRoy It is a medium, had plenty of great rides :-)

@@RideWithRoy - A final update - I have fallen back in love with it! Fantastic 60KM on Friday, rode really hard on the way out on 30% then 100% when I realised I had a mad head headwind.

I blink loads between takes 😂

Thanks for that additional info 👍

Hi, would you advocate an occasional full charge as some people do or don't you think it's necessary. Cheers, rob

@@roberth9650 Yes, an occasional full charge is good for balancing out the individual cells in the battery.

@@roberth9650 And if you plan to store them for longer than a couple of weeks without use, I would juice them up to 80-100% before doing so.

Many thanks 👍

I haven’t, Antonio, but I’m sure someone else here will have. It sounds interesting.

Thanks, Derek. There are many variables that will affect distance per charge on the X35. These include overall weight of bike and rider, how much effort the rider puts in, the size of the rider causing drag into wind and tyre pressures, to name a few. I think this is a case where the Ebikemotion app is your friend. You will be able to check that the battery is fully charged and look at what distance the app is estimating. If possible, you could try riding your wife’s bike, to see if you get more out of it. If I use power all of the time and put in some hills I recon to get 40 miles. If you check my Range Extender video you will see that I got over 100 miles on the internal battery with a heavily laden bike - it just depends on how I’m feeling on the day. Let’s us know how you get on with the tests.

@@RideWithRoy I just forced my wife (!) to ride alongside me for 30 miles using the same lowest assist level (there really weren't any hills) continuously and there was hardly any difference between them so I'm convinced there's nothing wrong with her battery, just the different way she uses it. I'm going to get her a range extender. Keep up the good work.

That’s good to know, Derek.

Thank you. As far as I know the apps are specific to the motor manufacturer. So any brand of bike fitted with a Mahle motor will use their app.

I couldn’t agree more. Sadly, I doubt if many retailers understand this themselves.

The whoosh evbike retrofit kit manual on the web gave interesting advice. Ties in with what Roy has found out. I hope to have Ribble ebike for my birthday.

I looked up the orbea D10 and apparently 13kg. Not the heaviest of bikes. As said elsewhere the extender battery may help and costs £550 or so new

Wooly Chewbakker not really Keith !, I need to sort out what the existing battery's condition before I even think about paying £550 for another battery . If I can get 40 - 50 miles on a charge it suits my level of cycling due to my disabilities, I swim my age nearly every day 73 lengths then a 30 mile ride on most days & a bit in the gym during winter . But since I bought the e -bike , I am venturing over the big hills & I love it, I haven't ventured out lately because it's to cold If it's ok to-morrow I will go on my Ribble with the triple on. Thanks for the reply.

Keith Gladman Hi Keith . I weighed me and the Orbea with everything on , mudguards , lights , spares , tools , pump , the total weight for me and the bike was 206 lbs in old money . The Orbea is dangerous to decent on climbs that have t junctions etc at the bottom , I comedown very gingerly. But when I am on my dogma I am fearless like most, that's the only thing that I slag the Orbea off, deffinetley no group riding while I'm on the e-bike, don't get me wrong it is a fantastic bike for a ageing old get like me ?.

@@cyclingdoglucy3299 my present old bike is about 15 kg. . Am 67 with artificial hip and a bit of arthritis. I hope the Ribble ebike will take to pastures new without so much pain.

Thanks, John. There are several variables that will reduce range, including weight, terrain and, most importantly, how much effort the rider puts in. If I use power throughout the ride, including a couple of hills at full power, I would expect around 40 miles. The day I managed 100 miles from one charge, on a heavily laden GCGR Al e, it was a fairly flat route so I powered the bike myself for much of the time. I never bother with adjusting the power levels through the app and leave them all on 100%. I have no idea how the app’s range calculation works but it does seem pointless as it can’t know what you plan to ride. So in conclusion, your hybrid appears to be working perfectly if you are using power for all of the 40 miles. Bear in mind that the X35 system is e assist as opposed to a much heavier e bike that does all the work. The fact that the bike is light enough to ride without power removes the range anxiety associated with heavy e bikes and enables us to improve fitness as we ride. The only thing at fault here seems to be Ribble’s poor advice. I hope that helps, John and you enjoy your lovely bike.

Range indicator is no good really if on full power you may get 30 to 40miles i also did 43miles on med and low and still had 65% when got home.

I don’t use the app myself so I may have missed something, but I don’t think there is any range information for the range extender. I believe that once the range extender is empty, useful range information/charge level will be available for the main battery

I forgot to say that the range extender does have the same traffic light charge indicator lights as on the main battery.

Thanks

That does sound a bit fast. I must admit that I don’t look at the app from a charge point of view so can’t say what is normal. Can you remember what colour light was flashing on the IWoc? If it was 99% it should have been white.

@@RideWithRoy yes it was white tbh wasn’t sure leave it on for a couple more hours for all I know it may stay at 99% for a couple of hours. I did notice the battery went to 85% fairly quickly on the ride and then stabilised to what you would expect.

When saying it sounded a bit fast I wasn’t taking into account that it was starting from 20%. Personally, that wouldn’t worry me at all. If you are concerned you could make sure you’re around for the first few charges and check the battery temperature in the app. As it’s used, it would be worth connecting the app to check in the ‘engineering’ section, how many charges it’s had in its life. Bear in mind that partial charges, like the one mentioned, only count as part charges, so the life of the battery is often much longer than owners expect.

Thanks for the question. I believe either is acceptable according to Mahle. However, I have found that when charging in tandem I’ve experienced an over voltage fault on the range extender, so always charge independently now. It also gives more control of how much you want to charge by.

@@RideWithRoy ,Thank you so much for your answer. Very good videos. All the best!

I don’t want to tempt fate but I’ve never heard of a Mahle system catching fire, and it’s used over a range of brands. I thinks it’s the unrestricted and illegal brands that can be dangerous - as are their riders.

I can’t really see a problem with leaving a modern charger connected. I think a lot of this is backside covering by battery manufacturers who don’t know the type of charger that will be used. I do understand that the low temperature charging thing is a danger, but as you charge immediately after a ride the battery will still be be warm. Others have said that Li cells don’t like being fully charged, but you seem to be doing okay.

I can’t offer any ideas on that, Larry, but I do know that in the UK it’s impossible to find a shipping company that will transport a Lithium battery for a private individual.

@@RideWithRoy Wow, I thought I'd just pack it up and ship it...same as the LBS did with the bike(s) we bought with these batteries in their downtubes. Do you have a part # for the Panasonic battery? I'll look it up, print 'em out and take 'em down to my shipping guy and see what they say. Much better to know this BEFORE taking the damn thing apart, thanks!

I’m afraid I don’t but if you look on the Mahle site it may have it there. Good luck with the shipping.

The alternative is to ask your LBS to ship it for you. However, I asked Ribble for some help with this and was totally ignored.

Yes indeed, a smart charger combined witha simple heating system pre mounted around the battery. (Just some heating wires) Just plug it in and will take care of optimal charging and temperature. Shouldn't be hard to do or very expensive.

Thanks, Robert, this has come up before. Clearly, you should follow the manufacturers instructions, but I can tell you I always connect everything up before switching on the charger and have suffered no obvious Ill effects. It makes more sense for the connection to be fully secure before introducing current, so their instruction seems counter intuitive. Reading Mahle’s charging procedure it would seem this has something to do with the short circuit warning. If the charger is switched on first, the green power light will glow. If there is a short circuit detected when it is attached to the bike the light will go out. If you connect the bike first and there is a short detected, the light won’t come on. Either way you have a short. I’ve been connecting the charger before switching on the power ever since I’ve had the bike and it works just fine 😀

@@RideWithRoy Thanks very much for the clear explanation 👍

Hi, Andrew. No, that’s not something I’ve considered as I use the bike all year round. I keep it in my garage alongside the internal wall but it still gets cold. I’m not concerned with it freezing, but as I said in the video, it shouldn’t be charged in low temperatures. Personally, I wouldn’t consider trying to remove the battery from the frame of a bike with an X35 system as I feel it unnecessary. Provided you put it away with around 80% charge it should be perfectly safe even in freezing conditions.

I ride all year, more in the spring and summer. I charge mine at 2 bars out of 5. I ride in 113° heat, no problem.

You shouldn’t charge while the battery is hot but I would say if you don’t do it too often it should be okay. The best way to handle it is to turn off the motor and ride without power a mile or two before the cafe stop to allow the battery to cool.

That’s why I don’t bother with the app, Keith. Garmin or Wahoo best for nav. I did read somewhere that leaving the app connected will discharge the battery. I have no idea how long it will take but worth a try. And I’m sure 80% will be enough. Alternatively, the while the weather is mild get out and enjoy it.

@@RideWithRoy The reason I use the app is to see what mode I am in and battery usage. I don’t use it for navigation, my 1030 is perfect for that and ride stats for Strava👍 my bike is permanently on my trainer now so back wheel detached so not sure whether the app will work without the wheel, will experiment🤨 thanks again..K

It was this note in the Raleigh manual that hints at the app discharge. 2. Discharge the battery by 5% (connecting the lights or keeping the Dealer APP connected). Although they mention ‘dealer’ app the end user one should do the same, I would have thought. I also wouldn’t think the motor needs to be connected.

Spot on, Pete, that’s what I do.

@@RideWithRoy Great >said to double battery life expectancy.

Some days I charge it to 100% overnight then if the weather turns bad suddenly the next day I'm left with a 100% battery sitting. So I usually try to run my bike up the steep hill 5-10 times behind our house to run down the charge a little. My neighbors must think I'm weird.

@@TheAgentAssassin Don't worry mine already think I'm weird but for other reasons :) Your battery will look after you in the long run! Do you have integral lights they could be switched on to run the battery down a bit?

Yeah if the bsttery is not used a long time it should be stored between 20 to 80 %. My powerpack 400 is now 5 years old but still performing with nearly the same capacity. I have just used the ebike around >5000km.

I would say perfect 👍

And good to know the app discharge does work - eventually 😀

Thanks, Phil. I would have no problem leaving the battery at between 20% and 80% charge for two months. My iWoc stays illuminated with power connected but not with power disconnected. If your Woc is illuminated without power that doesn’t seem right as it will be consuming battery power. When riding, if I leave the power on it will turn off after being inactive for some time. If that doesn’t answer your question please don’t hesitate to come back to me.

@@RideWithRoy Thanks Roy. It’s answers my question. But I’ll go back to investigate why the button stay illuminated. Both the wife have ridden for years . But only just got the E-bikes . I don’t like things that preform differently . So will let you know. Thanks again . Phil

@@philbest4565 if you are unsure I suggest contacting Mahle direct. The email address is mahle.support@heloo.com. If you do and they don’t help just let me know.

@@RideWithRoy thanks again for this information , most appreciated .I’ll do that.

They do, but that seems counter intuitive. I was always told to plug a device in first and then the power.

@@RideWithRoy Me too, that's why I mentioned it. But why do they warn against it then?

I think there’s some backside covering going on but that leads to conflicting advice.

Hi, Gary. This is a common issue and one that can be cured with a simple firmware update. The rub is that the update requires special cables that only a dealer is supplied with. However, any dealer handling the Mahle X35 system, regardless of make of bike, should be able to do it. They usually charge about £25 in the UK so a discount would be in order or ask the lady to get it done. Mine has the same issue and it’s just the system protecting itself. I find that a quick burst of the motor clears it, or leaving the app connected will also bring it down to an acceptable voltage. This might only be an intermittent fault code, which is suggested by the lady offering to top up the charge and being surprised. Of much more importance is the number of charge cycles the battery has undergone. This can be determined by asking her to connect the app and look at charge cycles in the engineering page. Manufacturers state 500 full charge/discharge cycles are to be expected before the battery starts to degrade. As a full charge can include several partial charges, the number may not be very high. So I would be wary of anything with 200 or more charges unless you factor in a replacement battery. My guess is that you’ll find the number to be less than 100.

@@RideWithRoy great advice, thanks Roy!!

I have the Orbea gain with the same ebike motion system, three years old. It’s fine in cold temperatures, No really noticeable difference which I’m quite surprised about, compared to e cars. I guess we don’t have heated saddles and seats as yet!! I strongly suggest you just get out and ride your bike. As Roy suggests it seems with such mixed manufacturers instructions it can seem complicated, but really it’s not

I’ve noticed this Winter Battery doesn’t hold charge as long. I’ve made the mistake of charging bike about an hour after my ride, then noticed if I top it up a week later just before a ride it takes probably 30 minutes to reach full again. I need to re install the app to check levels, I uninstalled it as found it very poor regarding the navigation and ride record side of it.

@@martinbywater I don’t actually have an e bike. But considering it. I prefer a normal bike…. But ebike would be good for comute

I prefer my unpowered bike but e is great for those days you have to ride but don’t feel like it.

I have to say the Ebikemotion is an excellent bike and the system works very well. The furthest I’ve been on it is 50 miles, and probably only used 60% on the lowest setting.

That’s the pink light of doom, Jonathan 😀. Yes, definitely send it back. It’s most likely needing a simple firmware update but that’s a dealer job as only they have the special cables. Any X35 dealer can do it but as it’s warranty let the supplier decide what to do. I had the same problem initially but once updated it has worked perfectly

@@RideWithRoy on its way, many thanks.. 🙏

Glad to help. Let us know how it goes.

Yes, Mark, it can. They say it’s a dealer job, which means any dealer handling X35, not just Ribble. However, having had a look, it is something I would happily do myself. The battery is accessed by a screwed on plate at the base of the tube, so should be easily removed. It’s worth reiterating that only full charges count as a charge cycle, so it will take longer than I expected to reach that total.

@@RideWithRoy Thanks Roy. My brother has one due for delivery next week so I’ll try that and then take your advice about a visit to Ribble to check fit, etc. I’m used to riding bikes with the Bosch system (Cube and Trek) so I know this will not have the “put a grin on your face” turbo hill-climbing power. But hopefully will be more versatile overall. And cheaper.

I think you will still have the e grin, Mark. What it loses in power it gains in lighter weight. My brother has a Bosch powered Cube and finds it heavy and difficult to ride without power. Let us know what you think when you try it.

@@RideWithRoy Thanks Roy. This sounds like the right option. I did buy a Trek Powerfly 4 but returned it when the dealer was unable to remedy the very strange noises that it was making. I bought a slightly used Powerfly 5 that my partner and my daughter share depending on which weekend it is lol. That’s fine but I was worried about putting both Treks on the cycle rack (got a tow bar). Final question for now. You mention the 105 group set. Will that give a significant advantage over the basic 1 x 11? I wouldn’t know how to choose the config but I guess the shop will help me.

I am not very well up on drive train ratios, Mark. I chose the 105 as 80% of my riding is on road. A friend has a 1x and while better on climbs, is less good at keeping up on the flat. However, I suspect that depends on the ratio of the 1x setup you go for. Best to tell the dealer what type of riding you do and let them advise.

It can be changed and is David d to be a dealer job. However, I've had a good look and it does seem like something I would be happy to try at home. Battery is accessed by a cover at the bottom of the frame and I imagine it will just be a case of unplug/plug.

@@RideWithRoy hi Roy, thanks for the reply. As you seem to have experience with this system, maybe I can pick your brains… I have a 14 mile commute to work, basically flat along quiet roads and mostly cycle path. I am considering an Orbea Vibe, but fear that unless there is a strong headwind/bad weather I won’t get much use out of it, as I manage to average around 23km/h at the moment, which takes into account my average speed plus junctions etc that I navigate. So I think my average moving speed is a few km higher than the 25km/h the motor would assist with…. Or do you think I would still get some benefit from the X35 system?

It doesn’t sound like you need it, Mat. The only benefit would be on days that you don’t feel up to the ride, or after a hard day at work. If you can currently cope with that I would stay as you are. Even though I’m 69, I ride my non powered bikes as much as possible. However, there are days I just don’t feel up to it so that’s when the X35 helps.

@@RideWithRoy I fear you might be right Roy! Many thanks for your helpful advice 👍

That sounds like absolute nonsense, Peter. The advice is not to store the battery fully charged, and my understanding is that charging to less than full is protective of the battery. I would strongly suggest that you go straight to Mahle customer service and bypass the dealer. The email is mahle.support@heloo.com Please let us know how you get on.

@@RideWithRoy Thanks for the quick response Roy, that’s exactly what I thought, the dealers (Leisure Lakes ) buyer is currently in talks with Orbea

I’ve also messaged my contact in Mahle. He isn’t directly involved but I’ve told him that you will be in contact with them. Ideally, they will have their person who deals with Orbea intervene. They could well ask you to connect the app so they can interrogate the system.

@@RideWithRoy Thanks again Roy, my bike is 30 miles away at the dealer and they couldn’t get the app to connect due to the total lack of charge in the battery, I’m waiting to see what response their buyer gets before I take it any further, especially as it’s only 6 months old , I may even look at full refund if the bike is not fit for purpose as my contract is with the supplier not the manufacturer, although that would be a last resort

@@peterg7489 👍

Would you be riding at -70C?

@@RideWithRoy . It would be a cold day in hell when I do that. But why wouldn't they just say below 0 or -10. They have to add -60. Like it's ok bellow -60?

Only they know the answer to that one. What I do know is that the battery discharges much more quickly the colder it gets.

That was my point, it doesn’t make sense and makes the battery useless. I was just reporting what the manufacturers states. However, you will recall that I went on to explain that discharge temperature will NOT harm the battery, but will reduce the output. I think it’s a case of manufacturers covering themselves. What will cause a reduction if battery life is CHARGING at cold temperatures.

@Ride With Roy So the instructions are rubbish, and/or have been mistranslated, maybe? It happens that I always bring my Bosch battery indoors for charging at room temperature (20°C) and wait till it's cooler than 25°C during any heatwaves... as Bosch suggest. I don't worry about the temperature when discharging in use. If it is very cold, I won't be out on a bike! (aged 75)

That applies to me re the cold, but people do commute, so it’s good cold doesn’t damage the cells. I think the problem with the instructions is that each supplier has added their own extra safety margins which cumulatively creates a nonsense. I know that Mahle people have seen this video so hopefully they will create some uniformity.

Rob Stanley. Sounds clear advice. At the moment somewhere about 13-14 centigrade. But was cycling 5-6 centigrade ambient but wind-chill took close to zero. I wonder if an insulating jacket would help battery life. I'm unlikely to cycle below this.