Turns out the Lich King was not really a pawn of the Jailer but more like his biggest nuissance. What do you think Arthas' true goal was? Also analyze your raid, m+, pvp performance completely free with SquadOV: squadov.gg/?ref=Doronsmoviesyt

What really bothered me with this new storyline is that Kiljaeden literally said The Lich King was his creation in Warcraft III. Now we’re just gonna pretend that never happened.

is it just me or did the shadowlands completely ruin the entire Arthas-Lich King storyline that I felt in love with so many years ago??

We've seen that Arthas' soul has basically been destroyed, but for such a beloved character, wouldn't it make sense that perhaps he has bound part of his own soul into Bolvar and possibly Anduin? We got a rather lackluster end to his character and you can't entirely forget Ner'zhul's influence as well, who would definitely not want his own schemes to just end. As far as I understand, Ner'zhul's presence wasn't removed, but merely put into submission. I could be totally wrong, as I don't follow the lore so closely that I remember everything. To remove both Arthas and Ner'zhul in such a way would be a waste. But this is Blizzard's storytelling.

the lore of this game has been completely destroyed

I would personally say that, although Arthas wasn’t totally controlled by the jailer, I doubt he was fully in control himself, after all, he made the machines on Azeroth that allowed the jailer to start drawing power from Azeroth, which we know was fairly recent before Arthas’s demise, and we also know it wasn’t enhanced by Bolvar since he was definitely out of the jailer’s control. I would say the jailer was telling Sylvanas a half truth, not the full truth as we see with many other things he told her.

This is the sad story of a hero who lived long enough to become a villain and became hero again being erased from existence for nothing (or because the writers didnt want microsoft to touch Arthas)

Well also remember what Uther said to Jaina in the Halls of Reflection about how perhaps the last remnants of Arthas' soul was all that holding the scourge back? That gives a bit more credence to this theory.

I swear, are the writers at Blizzard the same writers from the Last Jedi? The damage done to the WoW lore will never recover.

I wish shadowlands never happened. It took a big ol'dump on the scourge and arthas. 😔

Arthas will be missed!

Arthas is WOW

I miss Arthas. They havent made a compelling bad guy since.

Man, love your videos! I barely play WoW as it takes too much time and I just can’t commit that much due to work and family, but your videos always keep me updated on the lore and they are masterfully made. Keep it up!

I guess Arthas making the giant succ machine would benefit himself as it's truly a weapon that could have powered himself up to defeat the legion.

Didn't think of this possibility much. Maybe because they "wasted" Nerzuls potential, the potential of one od the greatest shamans that ever lived. If it turns out that both him and Arthas were actually fighting a mind games battle with Zovaal, that would really be epic. That could be the reason Nerzul's mind was broken, and he defied Zovaal until the very end of his conscience, so that is amazing. Also the ending of WotLK makes much more sense, the phraze "Is it over, father?", saying it because he was on the verge of losing himself to Zovaal. This makes Uther throwing him into the maw a lot more meaningful and sinful. Also makes perfect sense on how the face of Arthas was portrayed ... too tired to deal with anything. Just compare him to Garosh who wasn't fighting Zovaal.

Kil'jaeden casually outsmarting the Dreadlords by making Ner'zhul soul strong enough to resist

I imagine once arthas learned about existential threats like the legion and the old gods. Guess he thought best to serve nerzhilul and have a place within the new order once he learned that everyone on azeroth is essentialy living on borrowed time. May not have been pretty but serving the lich would've been badass.

Thank you for this video. I really enjoyed it.

No one cares Because there's no pre established lore behind zooval he just came out of no where and was just sorta there at the end of an expansion

Honestly, that whole storyline is a trainwreck. At this point I just hate how Blizzard actively disregards with Ner'zhul one of their best Warcraft 2 and 3 characters and Ner'zhul getting overpowered by Arthas was already one of the worst things Golden and them have decided in the Arthas novel. Ner'zhul was great as a character, but over the years they really ruined him. And I don't understand why, because the Lich King is and was always for me Ner'zhul. His ability to see glimpses of the future was over the events of Reign of Chaos fun to watch and actually gave the ending at Mount Hyjal an impactful meaning, when back then it could be assumed, that one of the Burning Legion's most feared generals failed because of the Scourge's ultimate betrayal at the end of their campaign. Attributing all of this to the Jailor out of a sudden is something I refuse to believe. The Lich King was Kil'jaeden's creation. Ner'zhul was made with his Horde a pawn by the Legion, where the Dreadlords simply acted as his guardian atop Icecrown (which neither had a fortress surrounding it up until after TFT - you can't just retcon entire cinematics and their obvious visuals, Danuser. If this supposedly would have been the story line they intended 20 years ago, hardly the miscommunication between Metzen and others in the team would have lead to a fortress turning just into a mountain...) once Ner'zhul fled from Draenor through various portals, that destroyed the planet and got unlucky enough to encounter Kil'jaeden in personal. With Ner'zhul being the active character of the Lich King's actions makes total sense, for Ner'zhul had his flaws and also a direct agenda against the Legion: Revenge. Him helping the Legion enough, only to then secretly co-work with their enemies to cause the deaths of Tichondrius, Mannoroth and Archimonde, three high-ranking Legion leaders, who didn't appear afterwards in TFT and pissed Kil'jaeden enough to give Illidan twice the command to attack the Frozen Throne in the campaign afterwards made sense. Not sure how much people remember, but during Warcraft 3 days there was no "Demons return after their death to the Twisting Nether" and even then it was assumed, that the three aforementioned guys were still dead for good... well, until Warlords of Draenor of course... And even then, despite these achievements, the Lich King in form of Ner'zhul still had his flaws. Sure, he remained loyal to Arthas and Kel'Thuzad, but underestimated the Legion gravely. Illidan's attack on the Frozen Throne with the Eye of Sargeras weakened the Lich King in unforseen ways and it was on Arthas' side to get back to the Frozen Throne. While the Dreadlords in Lordaeron pretty much tried to stop him and even hired Sylvanas as their assassin to go. If it wasn't for Kel'Thuzad saving the day, Arthas would have been finished that moment. So in other words: Even despite his abilities to forsee potential futures, Ner'zhul still had flaws. Which honestly was reasonable and portrayed ingame fine. There was no need to portray the Lich King as a whole as a 5D-chess playing gigabrain chad without any flaws, that would make him more look like a Gary-Stu character. The Lich King was presented in Warcraft 3 initially as a villain, yet quickly became an anti-hero over the course of the campaign, the more you heard about him. Still mysterious, but his plans could be understood. Well, and now you probably understand, why it angers me so much, that Blizzard just decides to simply retcon all of this. Now apparently the Jailor had always been the main force behind Ner'zhul, meaning - that he had apparently backstabbed Mal'Ganis on purpose, one of his main agents, while same Mal'Ganis briefly swore revenge upon Arthas in WotLK, just to be never seen again up until Shadowlands... like wtf? What was that supposed to accomplish, if that's what actually went on?? - that Kil'jaeden apparently believed that he created not only the Lichking with that random armor set the Dreadlords gave him, but also never questioned that shadowland-esque Icecrown fortress building around that icy mountain peak in the middle of nowhere, that his Dreadlord minions created, just to keep one guy in check - that apparently the Nerubians also never cared about this large Saronite fortress, if it was supposedly built by the Dreadlords before Ner'zhul became the vessel (speaking of which, do I want to know how many inconsistencies we have now with the Nerubians and Yogg-Saron in the new lore??) - that the Jailor's 5D chess plan included the Scourge to unveil their betrayal not somewhere within the Twisting Nether, where Archimonde and Mannoroth would have died permanently, but on open field in a material plane, that would then cause Kil'jaeden to realize what the Scourge truelly is and then also make him hire Illidan as a hitman?? What was then even the point of Arthas helping Illidan actively to get the Skull of Gul'Dan if it basically accomplished nothing?? - that the Jailor also trusted on Malfurion and Tyrande saving the day for Ner'zhul because without them the Lich King would have died by Illidan's first attack upon the Frozen Throne.. which also seemed like it had surprised the Lichking...? - that there was also now a civil war between the Scourge forces, loyal to the Jailor at this time still, the Dreadlord Insurgents, also loyal to the Jailor at this time and Sylvanas, who was briefly loyal to the Jailor's forces before, but now regained her free will and was the only actual renegade later on. So apparently the master plan needed some random infighting with the chance of Arthas actually dying before he could reach the Frozen Throne and Illidan just finishing the job??? WUT?? LIKE WHAT EVEN WAS THE PLAN AT THIS POINT THEN?? >.> The story was fine before, simple to understand and formed great characters with Arthas, Kel'Thuzad, Anub'arak and most importantly their overlord Ner'zhul, the original Lich King , who believably puppeteered and caused a majority of Warcraft 3's events. The end, hardly anything that had to be added. But nope, the MMO had to ruin the Scourge. I can reason sorta, why they toned down a lot of stuff on WotLK, since it was the second expansion and Blizzard probably only realized afterwards that WoW's success would probably have to go longer than that story-wise, meaning that they wasted a lot of potential stories for the sake of a cool MMO expierience. Fair enough. Shadowlands though really is the nail in the coffin though. What could have solved so many things WotLK left unanswered simply became the biggest desaster ever. So yeah, I'm just disappointed as people can see from this rant. Really wish they could just put out Warcraft IV and retcon most of the stuff WoW had done to the storyline just to give us these great characters again and a better sequel to Warcraft 3.

So What makes What Zovaal Said to Sylvanas true? We have been told many many times that the Jailer is Cunning so how do we know The Jailer wasn't just lying to Sylvanas to get her on board?

The endslate proved that doron is the one rapper eminem was afraid to diss

That little dragon that travels through time will definitely mess it up and Arthas will be much more dangerous than the Old Gods

The Jailer didn’t realize everyone from Azeroth is like on roid rage… even with the helm and sword the Jailer can’t control peeps from Azeroth. He had to use a soul from Azeroth to control Anduin

The Lich king was probably one of the best lore characters ever created and all that lore washed away by a crap expansion

What's more impressive is the spirit of Arthas' father.

I don't get how Arthas was thrown in the Maw as seen in Afterlives Bastion trailer, but somehow he ended up in Anduin's sword?!

Arthas was just a sleeper agent for the Light. No one realized that the cinematic showed that his remaining soul was BLUE and a little bit of Yellow in the orb animation.

it makes no sense to me, that arthas wasn't mindcontroled by zooval. first, when arthas died he asked his father "is it over?" doesn't sound like a good time but a nightmare. second: when dominated anduin came to bastion in 9.1 uther went pass him and felt the same aura of the jailer in anduin as in arthas. so i don't think arthas was free.

Squadov is a further evolution of one of wows biggest issues. If you aren’t a casual or noob everything is competitive.

ner'zhul also denied defied and betrayed the jailer.

i fricking hate blizzard for killing lk off like that....he was such a huge impact for the game

I can't be the only one to remember that old questline where we try to stop Arthas ripping out his heart. Thr last thing keeping him a human. I feel like that would have been zovaal trying to completely dominate Arthas. Bolvdard even said Arthas was holding the scourge at bay. In check. As if the last piece of him still wished to stop the scourge

It would be nice if Arthas´ soul was not destroyed completely but kust sent to a limbo like world, where the souls that are just to damaged go. But one of the old gods that reside there find him souls alone in the void where nothing should ever be able to get to, finds the pieces and slowly make it whole again. What started as a curious project becomes something of a obsession as it sees what the hell has happened to the living world and to his soul. And so he could actually come back but now a purified version of the lich king powers. Hell he might even be able to heal the undead from... undeath

This video legit until some expansion in the future with bigger baddie number 37 explained that he/she intervened and disturb the jailer lich king plan empowering arthas to defy the jailer and it was all part of a bigger plan Oh also time is an entangled web so don’t ask questions so we can retcon anything - blizzard

at start of Shadowlands, i though that Arthas himself was prepating Azeorth to fight Jailer, he made Icecrown full of things to test our strenght, so what if even himself was justa test for us to prepare us to fight jailer?

I still cannot fathom why Bliz went down the road they did with Shadowlands and the jailer.

actual sense was made in the move of the jailer, instead of sugestion straight up change for mindless servants

i really like this take

Arthas as the Loch King was absolutely the best part of World of Warcraft and it's gone down hill ever since WotLK ended.

not gonna lie hearing it like that.. it makes for an interesting storyline Its just sad we don't get to see it in game and have to look everywhere (Books, Interviews, Other outside game stuff) to piece it all together..

Arthas just up and kicked anyones arse. Arthas... our one true king✊

you can beleive this only if you completely ignore wotlk cinematics and cutscenes blizz fked this story up all around

This video got me thinking on one small detail. If legion and jailer allied and both created lich king as being. Wouldn't legion sending old good illidsn to destroy him, be seen as traitorous act, or maybe once again great skills of manipulations of jailer showed us, him using legion to unsuccessfuly teying to take care of lich king?

Arthas was the one true lich king !

I think the soul inside Kingsmourne was just his soul shard from Zovaal's vault

The fact im getting the bigger picture from a content creator make me think that blizz dont even know how to do storytelling

This story is far better than what we got. Lul

Who is responsible (directly or indirectly) for more deaths? Arthas or Sylvannas? I tend to lean towards the latter. This makes it really weird how kindly we treat her.

Sadly...those forges being built implies that arthas didn't fully defy him. Like you said. But I don't think it was a deal or something. But more of a subconscious suggestion that "arthas" thought would be good to drill and retrieve saronite. Which the jailer would use for his goals unknowingly.

in game there is quest that u took from some dranei shaman in howling fjord, if u are near lich king he says i was once a shaman, but i watched many videos where it says that arthas killed ner zul and that he is in control from what i understood, i guess bad writing

I like this.

The Soulforge was from WotLK

So sad that Warcheif Grom didn’t use the heart of y’shaarj with the bones of Galakrond, that might have given the void lord or the old gods a avatar of destruction…solo sort minded; Anyway good video and good luck XD

They spat on Arthas and for that I will never forgive jizzard!

Bring Arthas back. you have power of youtube which we donot have. But from you, your fans can get some help.

There is one question in my mind for years that i really need to put it here maybe (Doronsmovies) have an answer for it XD , is there any posibility to we revive arthas and bring him back to life ? ik that there is nothing left of his soul aswell but can we !!!!? XD

well... this is what happens if you try to drink from empty bottle, everything gets boring and stupid.

Make a What if…of queen azshara travel along the highelf’s or the blood elf’s

I really don't like how they gave slyvannas a redemption but weren't willing to do the same for arthas when she did worse then him

I'm like a kid in a candy store. I recently found the World of warcraft and started playing a couple months ago. So much content and lore to discover its amazing. I wish I would have been a pc gamer back when it launched.

Just really wanted to see Arthas back in full power or greater, they teased it to get people to play this shit show of an expansion then did the old bait and switch. Would have been epic to see Arthas as the Maw King and taking out Zoval.

Nothing of that makes sense if you play Warcraft III. This destroys any logic behind Arthas actions as Lich King. Like, why did he killed his dad if he was in control? Why he revived Kel'Thuzad? If at some point he was in control of himself, what's the point of all that work to control someone in another dimension if it can fail?

The issue is they leave a lot of the story out of the game, of all things that happened in the background. So it makes very confusing to those that only play the game.

Hmm I would actually disagree, Arthas was 100% under Zovaals influence. Everything he did(constructing ICC and forge of souls) was Zovaals plan. Nerzhul was stronger willed than Arthas so he defied. But Arthas basically "kicked out" Nerzhul from the helm. Thus Nerzhul is punished in Sanctum. I feel people forget that Zovaal is THE Lich King. I know the writing was lame, but something simple as calling him his actual/famous title instead of the Janitor(lul) wouldve caused a big diff.

Zovaal can pinpoint the exact second when somebody's gonna stab Azeroth, but somehow he had no clue that Nerzhul would be uncontrollable, or that Arthas would be uncontrollable, or that Bolvar would be uncontrollable, or that everybody playing the game would eventually walk up and kick his ass like we've done to every single one of this minions and pawns...

Warcarft frozen throne story ended on 3.3.5a wotlk,i dont play above patches

Giving arthas a pathetic ending ty blizzard I think arthas was more important then the jailer was

As someone who returned to WoW in Dragonflight after the Lich King...this hurts

nop3 arthas Never Know who is the voice of commander unfortunaly.. anub'arak just tell him nothing about the mistery voice in their head and i Think arthas done what He have done because He was a paladin and so blessed with light force who is the only force oppost of dark magic of zoval .. lich king was one hybrid of light and darkness and this was her unlimited power not like Bolvar it was a farmer of corn in competition with the real lich king

i dont like how arthas day in Shadow Lands

Im so genuinely shocked how many people are just forgetting the numerous novels, ingame lore, and ingame instances showing and even the writing staff of the old guard STATING he was mind controlled the moment he picked up the blade. Instead everyone is cheering for "Sylvanas the savior" and now all shitting on arthas and this new RETCONNED lore that states he wasn't MC'd because its mention in a single novel....I just......damn.......the betrayal......or is this like the new fans for the new garbage star wars trilogy, none of them were around for any of the old lore so all they do is simp for what they know.......truly a sad day in this games life......

Arthas save for next expansion

Soo ... Lich King Arthas was a good guy then? A misunderstood hero of a story we didnt know back then?

dont think arthas is dead.

I think we may be reading too much into this the reason most of this doesnt makes much sense is because they threw these characters in and retconned a bunch so obviously the lich king lore isn't gonna make any sense.

Regarding The Forge of Souls, even the entire BFA and Shadowlands, the only feeling I have is that Blizzard's writers are stupid.

Nah still don't like it

Chris Metzen is a MASTER story teller. But I don’t blame him jumping ship from Blizzard. The writing was all over the walls. His quality is legendary. So was Blizzard when he was there. Now? It’s a joke. A sad horrible joke. Blizzard Classic was the best developer of all time in my opinion

Shadowlands lore be like- random bullshit, go!

zovaal who?, That's what it will be like in the very near future

The Lich King was created by Kil'Jaeden . Guess lack of content made blizzard puff out the jailer story........

wait what? arthas sucked out nerzhul? he was in control? so u are saying that arthas DID do everything wrong??

Shadowlands is just a drunken dream of the dwarf who punched Deathwing in the face, dont take zovaal seriously.

Arthas will return? Yes or no

UGH HE ENDED IN MAW CUZ UTHER THREW HIM IN THERE WHERE WERE YOU??????????

This is some messy-ass lore.

What a stupid fucking expansion with a million plot holes and retcons....I salute you for trying to salvage the lore where you can

Oh come on, ner'zhul from warcraft 3 was anything but broken! The entire warcraft 3 story would not make any sense whatsoever if he were

So Arthas didn't do anything wrong

This is so confusing

It is like the Star Wars Sequels, it destroys the old lore and the legacy of these awesome characters. I say srew Shadowlands, it never happend in my opinion

Dude, the fact that you're even entertaining the idea of this tripe being canon pisses me off. It's a shit game and it's dying, let it go already

Still no explanation on why Arthas and Sylvannas are condemned as completely 100% evil bad guys for what they did under the jailor but Anduin gets an instant pass. Trash tier writing.

Sorry to say this but this retcon is bs. It makes sense yes but we already see how nerzhul tortured arthas also i still remember frost dk legion campaign. This is just bs.

Nope. Still a trash story. Arthas had one of the best story arcs in the entire Warcraft universe and Blizzard totally turned around and butchered it with laughable trashy writing. There might be 5 people out of a thousand that like the ending of the Shadowlands and that's for good reason. It's simply no good. Been a much better ending if Arthas showed up in some sort of redemption arc. Since he was such a big back bone to the Warcraft franchise. Instead we get TLJ ending of Arthas just fading away. It's shit and a low blow to the fans.

Allright. Any good points for Zooval? Because if anything this video makes him look even more dumb? Cause Danuser messed up with Arthas and LKs, they are hardly deeper now, they are irrelevant with and after shadowlands. The (interesting part of the) lore is now completely and utterly destroyed? What is left? There isn't even relevant legion activity....

The lore is getting more stupid.

I honestly think anyone not being cynical, spiteful, reactionaries and actually paid attention with an open mind, would've come to this conclusion. I won't argue that it could've been presented better, but I think folks are too damn quick to jump the gun.