That was beyond super fabulous. I can’t remember enjoying a conversation more. Very well facilitated Justin. Thank you Esther and Douglas.

Esters last comment to Douglas made me feel very emotional! I will pray for Douglas now 💖💖💖💖

This Esther person is lovely. I love Douglas naturally. Great discussion. Thank you!

Before I've even watched it, i know this conversation is going to be good

A church Leader asked " how does he get away with it" ... it being ... telling the truth ! What mad times we are living in !

Wow, Esther... That last bit. It made me shed a tear. Love both Murray and O'Reilly.

Worlds colliding! I’ve followed Unbelievable for years and Douglas for years - never dreaming the twain’s might one day meet!! Can’t wait to soak this one in...

What an amazing conversation. So pleased this was aired. Absolutely beautiful - it fills me with hope to know there are people like this out there in the sea of wishy washy, whinning, self absorbed people, those that choose violence over thought and those that seek to oppress. There is a God after all :)

Douglas Murray was very gracious as usual. Thank you Unbelievable for the introduction to Esther O'Reilly. I will go directly to Patheos to read more.

As a (pre-internet) atheist, I really enjoyed this. I've grown weary of the "debates" and have been honestly seeking different types of conversations around the subject. Kudos.

"Something happend here"... That's why I love Douglas.

I think Douglas is already saved. He certainly is more honest than the majority of religious people (or any kind of people). It is NOT "mad" to hear from God, many modern people have done so. It is a sign of the shallowness of our culture that the phenomenon is rejected out of hand. BRAVO Douglas, for pointing that out to a couple of religious people who are trying to influence you. It's between you & God, no-one else.

Jordan Peterson and Douglas Murray, two of my non Christian heroes! They speak with courage, integrity and clarity. I respect them both enormously.

35:15 - Scared the crap out of me...

I've been calling myself a Christian Atheist (and getting scoffed at) and a fan of Douglas Murray for a while now. I had no idea Douglas referred to himself this way but it,s nice to hear.

I am so glad to have found this program. What a great conversation! Thanks from a non-believing-but-still-practicing Episcopalian in the States. God (Being, Goodness, Theoretical Absolute?) bless.

Douglas is a combination of Oscar Wilde and Gandalf.

Two philosophers are sitting by the pool enjoying Mai Tais. One turns to the other and asks, "Have you read Marx?" to which the other replies, "Yes, it's these damn wicker chairs!”

Thank you for this rather meaningful conversation.

Thanks Douglas, Esther and Justin.

Love this!

35:15 ah yes, a fascinating perspe- _I AM DOUGLAS MURRAY DESTROYER OF SOULS_

I grew up in a Christian home but finally found my niche as an atheist-atheist. A highly recommended state. And my heart goes out to those who have not yet been blessed to see the light.

Douglas Murray: I have heard the holy spirit several times in my life. The voice was not sound; but it was clear enough to me that I was convinced I had been spoken to. And my life was drastically changed; not the first time but the subsequent times.

If Douglas wants a interesting experience of hearing a voice... I have had a wonderful experience...which I am willing to share. (And I am not irrational or mentally imbalanced.) What I say to people is “Ask and it will be given, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be open to you.” Jesus Sincerely put these words to the test...but, doing as it says. It isn’t something you can do glibly...once or twice ... It is a deep search for truth ...for meaning... I am extremely confident the individual who takes these words seriously and pursues them...will end with a personal testimony of the truth of these words of Jesus.

Well worth listening to.

Douglas said on previous interview ........no one is born a certain way.........they become what they are over time..........ongoing change..............I agree with his stance on the LGBT agenda..........children should be allowed to be children............children influenced by adults on what gender they THINK THEY MIGHT BE! They are children they will make their own minds up when they are adults. Law suits in years to come on botched sex change operations on children.........

It would be nice to have Murray and O’Reilly over to my place and we all get our hands in some soil, do some gardening. Feels like the real world, and growing real things is here in this conversation

This channel is getting better and better

This is was great.

Brilliant convo, thanks.

Absolutely brilliant conversation. Everyone made some vital contributions. Society in general certainly has an identity crisis right now which is manifested in obsessions with race, sexuality, cultural identity even. The loss of the concept of the image of God imparted to mankind, tarnished by sin and restored through redemption is at the core of so much that we have lost.

... To quote Bob Dylan concerning 'believing' and proof from Pressing ON .... Many try to stop me, shake me up in my mind, Say, "Prove to me that He is Lord, show me a sign." What kind of sign they need when it all come from within, When what's lost has been found, what's to come has already been?

Supernatural Experiences are real but humanism will always try to rationalise it away. A friend of mine sitting next to me in church said he felt compelled to read certain random scriptures out loud to the congregation. He had underlined the scriptures and thought I should read them out. The practice was encouraged in this particular church. I refused and he refused. Within about ten minutes of this happening the pastor giving the sermon read out those same random passages. My immediate thought was my friend had colluded with the pastor somehow. On investigation I found this not to be the case and I don’t smoke weed - so you tell me?

Forgiveness without repentance is appeasement. Separation is the power behind forgiveness, as reconciliation can only be done, and must be done, when there is a change of mind to suit the forgiver.

Even if one doesn't believe, what better 'philosophy' is there to live by?

great convo as always. tip of the 🧢

Dr. Robert Enright’s “The Forgiving Life “ is a wonderful 20 step evidence-based process that helps us to become forgivingly fit. There is no faith without doubt.

Douglas’ previous book, a strange death of Europe, is a terrific but depressing book, because it’s true. Halfway through ‘madness of crowds’, great read

As both a Christian and a follower of Douglas Murray, I think it's kind of funny they are hoping to bring him around to their way of thinking.

I’d love to have a private chat with Douglas Murray. What a fascinating mind. ☺️

I'm an atheist and consider the loss of forgiveness from our culture to be truly horrifying. It's one of Christianity's aspects we should not lose. As Douglas says, we do not exist in a vacuum and are encultured by societies we live in. Wise people understand it's not all or nothing: i.e. one can remain an atheist without discarding everything in Christianity (or another religion), and vice versa of course. Discarding everything is in my view an ideological extremism. The above discussion has little if anything at all to do with the existence of God. It is about our societal culture and forgiveness itself. If the idea of individualism and forgiveness came from a different source, I would be defending it just as well.

Atheists for Jesus 😎

My wife heard Gods voice

He mentions the similarities in religions as a reason to disbelieve in Christ, but perhaps he should look rather at the dissimilarities. All other religions promote some sort of structure or set of rules by which we must climb our way to God, but only Christianity says, “You are but dust.” Only Christ extends His hand and provides the way for us.

If you pray for a sign and earnestly truly want one and want to become a Christian but just can't believe, He will reveal His truth to you 🙏

Apparently something exciting is happening at minute 35:15 by looking at the comments at the start of the vid.

Douglass looks deviously handsome in this video

Brilliant observation by DM that Christian, Muslim, Hindu etc. atheists are all different in their expression. You can deny God but how your culture defines the concept is a horse of a nother color.

I happen to agree more with Sam harris than Douglas, maybe because I'm Irish and I've seen what religion has done to my country. Have read the madness of crowds and I cannot recommend it highly enough.

OK Esther is good.

1:10:00 Voices? That is the wrong bar. To "live as God existed" is to live with the dividend of religion without putting forth the downpayment.

He was an Anglican like Richard Dawkins was until about age 9 or so.

Not sure modern Westerners would recognize a vision or the voice of God as our Western brains and psyches are too attenuated to scientism/reasonism; our modern Western society has closed our minds to such. The psychological literature speaks to the power of belief, it stands to reason that the power of disbelief that signifies modern, Western society would be just as strong.

Speaking as a....... this needs to be replied with speaking as a human or person or biological life form. Don’t let people play this nonsense on you.

Equality in the eyes of God is a given. And as Douglas says apart from that, we are not all equal, we cannot be. And I always think of Jesus saying "the poor you will always have with you". There are so many reasons why we are not equal, right from the biblical precepts of blessing and cursing, that starts before the foetus in the womb, even; right on down the different parenting whether nurturing or neglectful. All this and more gets worked out in our lives year by year. To add my 'political' viewpoint, this is why I am against all socialistic leanings, trying to force some down, some up, so we all arrive at an equal level. So wrong, even after all discussion, this is what we have seen in society where the resentful poor, start all sorts of campaigns, which in the end just add to the unionistic anarchy.

It's a competition to see how many books you have in your bookshelf.

Douglas wants to hear the voice of God. Most people who claim this are usually viewed as crazy... I don't think it solves his problem.

There is nothing more tedious than listening to a christian reason why you should have faith in christianity and how its purely logical.... Just take this line of thinking and throw it in the trash please. Religion grants purpose, morality and shelters you from nihilism, and if someone wants more than they are not ready to be a christian. All the various forms of proselytizing really do not help even bring back culturally christian people into the church and if anything it makes them disdain you. If you want to gain members you do it thru community not thru arguements. The modern equivilants of weekly bingo nights, bake sales, and neighborhood charity work is where its at, you just need to figure out what they are but I would point out that there is are a lot of right leaning youths that needs to meet someone special and just maybe that is goldmine you could take advantage of.

What about being a Christian Atheist? I've wrestled with this for years but I have trouble with this word 'belief'. As Esther said perhaps jokingly, all it's about is behaving like Jesus. I can get totally on board with Jesus' ideas, but can I do that without ever assigning any divine qualities to him..?

Douglas, you are spot-on. You might relate to the apostle, "doubting Thomas", after Jesus' resurrection. You are right about NEVER, EVER faking it. The ONLY 2 essentials are Truth and Love. People freely focus on love, but the truth part is where the controversy comes in. Many people today have had genuine religious experience(s) , but you are absolutely right it's odd that shows like "Unbelievable" don't talk about it.

It is puzzling to me that as central as the Christian "narrative" is to Western Civilization, that it should be predicated on a falsehood. That would raise major questions regarding why the "narrative" Western Civ should not be replaced by any of a number of other likely stories.

It always astonishes me why those with a Christian faith should feel that they need to be so patronizing with non-believers. This was the case at the end of a very interesting discussion with the very articulate and intelligent Esther 0''Reilly and Justin and Douglas Murray who they grilled for being a Christian atheism. Perhaps it comes from a typically Christian smugness of BELIEVING that they 'know the truth', which too easily translates into proclamations of pity for those who don't or may believe in another truth. All so unnecessary. Perhaps Esther and Justin could do some listening to or reading Bart Ehrman?

I loved listening to this discussion, thanks to all three of you! Douglas surprised me in his openness to hearing about Christians' supernatural experiences, to me it seems that the West in general does not put any stock in/disbelieves such things, and that is why they are not a focal point in many conversations. Because those experiences are given much honor and respect in Africa and the Middle East, I believe that 1. God uses those approaches more in those areas 2. People are more open to including them in their testimonies.

On the example of the 2 selves and the inmate that thru acid on his girlfriend: What he referred to as his "true self" MAY certainly have been a bad faith excuse to justify his bad behavior, or it MAY have simply been B.S. to justify his perverse satisfaction in being wicked. There are people that simply are unable (brain damage), or unwilling to consider the future, or care about doing so. This reminds me of the Zizek/Peterson talk where Zizek describes how the dissociative aspects of Zen were USED to enable relatively normal people to do bad things, and live with themselves ( It wasn't the real me doing it)

38:48 The disconnect is an outcome of the dualism that exists within the ideas. The Buddhists are quite active in their dismissal of an ego/self and as a result, this particular expression would not be possible. If you'd like to claim that Christianity was the unique and sole cause for something good, do you also have a list of unique and bad?

Quick ? : Should your authority on a subject come from any part of your identity or how good you are on a certain subject?

Disappointed in Esther. Not only for her cowardice. If she believes what she says, be like Murray and put your money where your mouth is. Shame on the network for giving her airtime. Many of her points are headed in the right direction but are awkwardly put.

More on the split self

Nelson Mandela, Marthin Luther King> What about them?

Nowhere in the Bible is forgiveness offered without acknowledgement by the wrongdoer of the wrong, with the notable exception of Jesus on the cross, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." Pardon my skepticism about public displays of forgiveness offered by people who, relatives or not, are bystanders to the suffering inflicted by a wrongdoer, especially when the wrongdoer has yet to admit any wrong or even to stand convicted. Anybody who scoffs at that kind of dysfunction operative within families has to be unfamiliar with probate courts. Pathological altruism knows no bounds, especially when there's a payoff involved, such as public approbation.

After World War 2, PG Wodehouse was asked, 'Don't you hate the Germans for what they did to you?' to which he answered, 'I find it impossible to hate in the plural.'

I find it ridiculous that this lady is calling out a sixteen-year-old about what her meaning in life is. If a 16 year old said Jesus was their meaning in life then they are 100% okay? This coming from an adult that chooses to remain anonymous. She doesn't even have the courage to stand on her own views even with the creator of the universe on her side. Pathetic.

I am an atheist full stop.

Was there something wrong with the earlier version of this? Is this different from Friday's version?

HUM?not sure about the french

A voice? It’s in your inner self... I have had visions, I heard a voice as a five-year old , was it from God? Maybe, because he told me that I’d have to be good... I don’t remember what I asked him, and many years later when I was in my twenties I saw a vision, which was an image of a pyramid housing millions of people and it was clear for me that it represented the hierarchy in heaven and a few others... What was very strange for me was that this vision felt to be true whereas the cars down below on the motorway seemed “ unreal”!

Love Douglas but only because he repeated it so many times, I have to disagree that generalizations about nations, cultures and people differences cease to be useful. When someone says they love British people they're probably referring generally to a cultural aspect like humour or affectation. I don't imagine they mean it in any comprehensive aspect...

I have been an atheist for 20 years and I’ve never needed to replace the religion I left behind with intersectional collectivism and weaponised identity politics. I didn’t need religion in the first place so there was no need to replace it with anything else.

Atheism tends to come in two flavours. There's instinctive atheism, the approach that says anything that isn't manifestly true is clearly untrue. It takes conscious interaction with existence as universal and axiomatic. Then there's ideological atheism, which places something called "science" in the space once occupied by God. It sees all interpretations of reality as exhaustively materialistic, and works on the can't>isn't principle: something isn't true because the motivating force can't be real. This is the position of the New Atheists. I fail to see how the latter can meaningfully interact with religious belief, because it is itself an ontology. It makes claims for the origin and nature of reality that are entirely metaphysical, not least that the universe and the immutable laws that govern it came from nowhere in an instant. That conscious awareness is not a real phenomenon but an epiphenomenon - smoke from the biological machine. That the universe is meaningless and accidental, as is everything it contains. And so on. It's a placeholder, a position for enlightened people to hold but completely unsupportable in practice. No one believes their life is meaningless, much less acts upon the lack of purpose. Atheists believe their existence is replete with meaning, what they do actually matters and their illusory consciousness is capable of empirical observations. If morality is objective, and not the pseudoscience of reciprocal altruism, human interaction and the politics it manifests is not relativistic. However it requires a higher source of meaning than peer review, and a greater moral arbiter than warm and fuzzy feelings and both are unpalatable to physicalists.

Sure if that "something happened here," wasn't that voice Mr. Murray?

I think "christian/atheist is a contradiction of terms. Agnostic might be more accurate. Agnostic seems to be ..I'm not convinced there is a diety, but I will live my life like there isn't...

Surely the thing that differentiates the claims for Jesus, is the empty tomb? Otherwise he's another peacenik telling everyone to be nice, a caricature of which there's no shortage. People can believe in Christ's transcendence of death, or find the prospect impossible according to their view of reality, nevertheless the disciples transformed from cowardly and argumentative hypocrites, to a willing acceptance of hideous deaths based on what they had experienced.

EQUALITY of RESPONSIBILITY to God. However beautiful, wealthy, able or strong, we must believe in the Creator, that he raised his Son as our Lord. And we must not sin. Equally subject to vanity or hope.

Christian atheist = eating your cake and having it

Yes...1:50-ish...I still, in some way, identify as a Catholic, haha, in spite of my atheism...well, I mean...stuff having to do with the Catholic church are closer to me, more familiar, "home" to me, than Protestant stuff, let alone Muslim...though this wouldn't apply to people like Sam Harris or professor Francesca Stavrakopoulou who were never religious...

'... naughty'. I do think we should all be slightly more naughty.

But yeah. Murray is best thing since Hitchens.

He's on the good side but he's not a hero. He is not resisting Dark Vador.

Esther clearly has done ZERO research on the reliability and historicity of the NT scripture. Making the claim that there is historical evidence that Jesus was the incarnate God, performed miracles, and raised himself from the dead is simply a misrepresentation of the facts. She doesn’t get to her position via history, she gets to her position via faith.

xtian atheist is a fucking oxymoron, its like a married batchelor

Douglas, just read The Book On the Living God by Bô Yin Râ

Ah yes, the old line that somehow “my” faiths stories of the miraculous and divine are true, yours are not. Grown people making excuses as to why their fairy tales are true but yours are not is embarrassing.

True to which self, the body self or the eternal self? Or Agatha Christie‘s God Self? Bô Yin Râ!

I've notice that Christians like to prattle on about society whilst totally ignoring that fact that most of human society is not Christian. Both Chinese and Indian societies have survived and thrived much longer than Christianity

The Western Civilization that Douglas Murray often mourns the death of is Christian Civilization. I can assure you however that the God of the Old and New Testament is far from dead. As a matter of fact I perceive Him to be working at the moment through the great Douglas Murray insofar as Murray speaks The Truth.

I'm curious if Mr. Murray has spoken with Dr. William Lane Craig; if someone's looking to be argued into the faith he's the one to do it if they can speak academic. (also this conversation reminded me of a 3 person debate between Peterson, Craig, and a lady who's name escapes me on 'does life have meaning' or a similar topic.)

Douglas cannot come back to faith, because he never had it. Faith is the gift of God and, unless God gives it, you don't have it. God saves people, they don't decide to become a Christian, and when they become a Christian they cannot cease to be one. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. (John 6:44 [ESV2011]) BTW, crap music, but then so was your previous music. The pop generation can't do any better.

While I am a great admirer of Douglas Murray, it's hard to take any discussion with Esther O'Reilly seriously. She is an evolution denier and very shallow in her Christian apologetics (if you can call it that). I've interacted with her several times in the YT comment section (mostly on Paul VanderKlay videos) and have not been impressed, to say the least. Anyway, not a hit on the "Unbelievable?" channel, which I will keep watching for their generally excellent content.

Christian atheist? That's like saying you're a human toad...being Christian means God's Spirit lives inside you, and being atheist means you believe God doesn't exist.