The problem with recycling electric car batteries

Рет қаралды 117,035

Күн бұрын

For years, we have been promised that batteries from electric vehicles are recyclable. With eye-watering efficiencies of more than 90% of recovered materials such as nickel, cobalt and lithium. In a lab environment yes, but are these numbers actually achievable on a commercial scale?
#PlanetA #EVbattery #recycling
We're destroying our environment at an alarming rate. But it doesn't need to be this way. Our new channel Planet A explores the shift towards an eco-friendly world - and challenges our ideas about what dealing with climate change means. We look at the big and the small: What we can do and how the system needs to change. Every Friday we'll take a truly global look at how to get us out of this mess.
Follow Planet A on TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@dw_planeta?la...
Credits:
Reporter: Kai Steinecke
Camera: Florian Kroker
Video Editor: Markus Mörtz
Supervising Editors: Malte Rohwer-Kahlmann & Michael Trobridge
Fact Check: Kirsten Funck
Thumbnail: Em Chabridon
Read More:
Different types of battery recycling
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
Current challenges and opportunities of lithium-ion battery recycling
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
Forecast lithium-ion battery recycling market
www.statista.com/statistics/1...
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:50 Mechanical Battery Recycling
02:27 (Black Mass) Chemical Purification
05:58 Problems with Upscaling
10:27 Conclusion

Пікірлер: 423

@tommclean7410 Ай бұрын

Interesting! If battery manufacturers were made financially responsible for the recycling then there would be more motivation to standardize batteries for the recycling process.

@cycleistic1365 12 күн бұрын

Except that the current 'free enterprise' corporate mentality despises standardization over proprietarization.

@jayshahrealestate 10 күн бұрын

maybe in the future the manufactureres will be recycling their own batteries so it could be easy to recycle them. Ex. Tesla having a recycling plant. They can automate the human labor part since they have a few types of batteries and it can easily be automated. They wouldn't have to worry about so many different type of batteries.

@mosesmc52 6 күн бұрын

I think that's where government is need as an intermediary to create policies that standardize batteries for recycling process as well as balance for future innovation.

@philpreston3072 Күн бұрын

Makes these expensive batteries even more expensive. Probably double the price 😆

@mosesmc52 Күн бұрын

I agree. Most likely raise the price of batteries, maybe not double. I think it's a question of our societal values. Value short-term production at low expense or a long-term sustainable approach at a larger expense in the short-term. I think government should be involved, because I don't think industry would self initialize standards.

@ua420 Ай бұрын

Here in Ukraine we are buying lots of damaged(totaled) Tesla cars from US. Some are restored others are dismantled to parts. Batteries often reused as home batteries or rebuilt as battery packs for FPV drones sent to unwanted guests coming from the east.

@vidpetrovic8907 Ай бұрын

Unwanted guests comming from the west. I found this comment funny, but sad at the same time.

@larryc1616 Ай бұрын

@@vidpetrovic8907from the EAST!

@AG-ig8uf Ай бұрын

@@vidpetrovic8907 East, not West

@Philip-hv2kc Ай бұрын

@@vidpetrovic8907 from the east.

@skunkjobb Ай бұрын

@@vidpetrovic8907 No, from the east just as he said.

@CrackDavidson1 Ай бұрын

H2S is not sulfuric acid (So4), but hydrogen sulfide, which evolves when sulfuric acid (or sulfates) is reduced in low oxygen environments.

@CrackDavidson1 Ай бұрын

@@shadowmistress999 yeah, that is absolutely what he meant, but the list on the screen showed sulfuric acid as (H2S). Which is different, but yes can reduce into that. HF would need fluorine (which I suppose can be present in the black mass).

@DWPlanetA Ай бұрын

Thanks for spotting this! You're right, at 3:54 we wrote Sulphuric Acid (H2S). But we meant Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S). Apologies for the mistake.

@JerryMau5 Ай бұрын

@@DWPlanetA

@CrackDavidson1 Ай бұрын

@@DWPlanetA No worries at all. :)

@KP-xi4bj Ай бұрын

@@DWPlanetA Back to the editing room!

@bartmannn6717 Ай бұрын

Here is a quite crazy idea: Develop und upscale it with constant government subsidies. In Germany, there are massive subsidies for coal, kerosine, I think even for the car industry.

@TheAllMightyGodofCod Ай бұрын

That's a nice idea and I will get behind it however... You are assuming that it is possible to develop a commercially viable process for recycling, before we have a big problem with non recycled batteries and that might not be possible.... Or the process might end up being terrible for the environment...

@samuxan Ай бұрын

The process shown here are not unlike the process to turn the ore that's mined into the original raw materials, that's something that rarely is talked about. the main reason this can be more expensive than mining is that the process are not in scale yet

@augustovasconcellos7173 Ай бұрын

And they won't be in scale for quite some time. Because there is more ore to go around than discarded batteries. And there will be more ore than waste for _a long time._ Economies of scale will always work in favor of making brand-new goods as opposed to recycling old ones. Recycling can only be competitive when two conditions are met. Condition number one: recycling the material involved less expensive and complex steps than making new material from natural resources. Condition number two: the processes of recycling and producing material are similar enough that you can use much of the same refining equipment for both, even mixing scraps with raw materials in your batches. Glass, steel, and aluminium are among the few materials that fulfill both criteria. Plastics, fine chemicals, and alkaline metals (the critical component of batteries) do not.

@smallpeople172 Ай бұрын

@@augustovasconcellos7173at the moment, worldwide there is almost 200X the amount of battery waste compared to battery production capacity. Even the very first generation electric cars are still basically untouched, not being recycled at all. As of now, less than 2% of electric car batteries get recycled, and less than 1% of all total electric car batteries in history have been recycled.

@adrianthoroughgood1191 Ай бұрын

@@augustovasconcellos7173 this is when regulations requiring batteries to be recycled can tip the balance, even if the market by itself would favour mining.

@MarcelloFerrara95 Ай бұрын

@@augustovasconcellos7173another condition: recycling gets mandatory by law.. (here in Italy the producers of plastic have to pay for recycling it as well, at least the recyclable ones)

@xelaxander Ай бұрын

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 Agreed, we need regulations on two fronts: Disassembly procedures and put a cost on discarding batteries without recycling.

@johndoyle4723 Ай бұрын

I worked in chemical recycling for 30 years, rogue materials in your inputs can play havoc with the process and can be very difficult to detect. We used shredders at the start of the process which worked very well until a drum of waste from say a car repair shop had a starter motor dropped in it and kiss goodbye to your shredder blades. The recycling industry is very innovative, and I am sure when there are enough scrap batteries available then the process will be sorted.

@davidnika446 Ай бұрын

We do not expect starter motors to mixed in with electric car batteries.

@3abxo390 Ай бұрын

What part of starter motors breaks shredder blades? 😮

@skunkjobb Ай бұрын

I have used several shredders for relatively soft material but they have low rpm and torque measurement on the motors so they stop instead of being damaged if there is some hard object that they can't chew.

@davidnika446 Ай бұрын

@@skunkjobb Low torque? I'm perplexed about that part. Torque and hp are related, but a shredder seems like a high torque device.

@quelixfenzer5108 5 күн бұрын

@@3abxo390 probably the shaft and the bearings. those parts are usually made from hardened steel which can´t be shredded by the hardened steel shredder discs

@MDUD777 Ай бұрын

I work in One of European battery recycling company and i can confirm that it’s quite a lot of a process :)

@larryc1616 Ай бұрын

The Chinese do it the best

@martythemartian99 Ай бұрын

@@larryc1616 No, the Chinese TELL us that they do it best, which is different.😵‍💫

@larryc1616 Ай бұрын

@martythemartian99 that would be everyone else. China just do not tell

@martythemartian99 Ай бұрын

@@larryc1616 True they keep a lot of secrets, but they do love to constantly tell us how great they are. You know... like the Americans do.

@davidnika446 Ай бұрын

Which company? What you do there? What's your name? (It's super easy to say stuff on the internet.) Also, how many processes does it take to recycle a gasoline car engine?

@jeremygibbs7342 Ай бұрын

The fact so many batteries are findong a second life and being reused as home battery storage is really good! Certainly the question/challenge is in having an industry ready to recycle those batteries when they inevatibly need to be recycled.

@powerpc6037 3 күн бұрын

This may be good for the environment but when they sell you a battery for your home, they don't tell you it's in fact a used battery, they still sell it as a new one for thousands of dollars. This can be considered a scam.

@stoff3r 3 күн бұрын

Dw: how are we going to recycle all these batteries. Also dw: there are not that many batteries around to make large scale recycling viable.

@tlister67 7 күн бұрын

I worked in R&D on this topic over 5 years. It should first be stated that Li ion batteries have been recycled from portable devices for many years using pyrometallurgy (smelting). The hydromet process described here is fairly conventional and nothing usual, those “hazards” are fairly common and manageable in industry. There are more chemically efficient methods that have been developed recently and you really need to be skilled in the art and read a lot. The main problem I heard was really the supply of batteries from eVs to drive the economics. Unlike a mine where the source of material is well defined, the source material for batteries must be sourced and I saw vertical integration and partnerships with manufacturers to source those batteries as important. There are many recycling companies battling it out right now. The dynamic nature of battery technology is also important, metal thrifting will be employed to lower costs and cheaper storage materials will be developed. This lowers the value of scrap. Most of the challenges lie in the economics and market, not technology.

@syproful 2 күн бұрын

Thanks

@DougGrinbergs Ай бұрын

1:46 blackmass 8:43 many battery chemistries 10:12 old EV batteries being used in second-life applications,👍 delaying need for recycling

@stevengill1736 Ай бұрын

Absolutely - I'd love to have a set of those used Li batteries for our stand-alone solar system!

@MrCaiobrz Ай бұрын

Yeah, if the batteries are lasting longer and being used, that shoudln't be considered a problem, that is actually good news.

@jeffheiner Ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing what the actual process really looks like. We need to figure out how to make batteries, that are designed for recycling. maybe make recycling easier and safer for the workers. But recycling in general is a big step!

@DWPlanetA Ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!🤞 If you want to see more videos like these, subscribe to our channel, we post new videos every Friday 😊

@spitfireresearchinc.7972 10 күн бұрын

What you missed is that it is far, far easier to recover the metals that are in a Li ion battery from a dead Li ion battery, than it is to recover those metals from any natural ore being mined on earth. For one thing, most of the very difficult separations have already been done. Li ion batteries for instance don't contain any Mg, Ca, K or Na, whereas Li brines contain these metals and a major part of the effort in recovering Li from brines is keeping the product from being contaminated by these metals. Furthermore, the mass of metal per tonne of "black mass" is far higher than the mass of metal per tonne of ore or even per tonne of ore concentrate from many mined ores. As someone quite familiar with the commercial production of Ni, Co, Cu and Li from their ores or brines, I'm not at all concerned about whether or not we can figure out how to achieve high recycling metal recovery rates from Li ion batteries. As to the economics, you did identify the real problem, which is that the supply of dead batteries will take a long time to materialize and hence it will be a long while until we have enough dead batteries to feed world-scale recycling facilities which achieve good economics for their owners.

@owenhill-vf7ko Ай бұрын

I work at a new state of the art battery recycler. While I can't go into details this isn't close to new technology.

@ianthehunter3532 Ай бұрын

Alright, who paid you to post this? Like there's no way Vox uploads same thing within the same minute.

@samuel-oh7qg Ай бұрын

is this a coincidence

@ianthehunter3532 Ай бұрын

@@samuel-oh7qg I think more like just another checkmark on the agenda before the annual illuminati meeting.

@planetxeno82 Ай бұрын

an even CNA insider post the same theme in the same minute

@Eoin-B Ай бұрын

The German government does and It's pretty clear they made it a few weeks ago.

@Michelle_Wellbeck Ай бұрын

The Democrats

@vernonbrechin4207 Ай бұрын

I hope there is more emphasis placed on repurposing used batteries. There are still new lithium battery chemistries that may soon be marketed. One includes sulfur.

@badrinair Ай бұрын

Thank you. suprised to know there is only chemical process of getting the basic elements back from the batteries.

@ronvandereerden4714 Ай бұрын

I think they said that's true for the lab and to get great results with low energy usage. Industrial scale processes may use more heat and energy and less chemicals.

@jp4431 Ай бұрын

There is so much activity happening in the battery recycling space, so companies are limiting what information they release to prevent competitors from taking their ideas. Universities are looking for industrial sponsors so they are more open in getting the information about their process out there.

@osteopathichomeopathicking6154 20 сағат бұрын

That or the recycling efforts are absolutely worse than acquiring new resources.

@bozoldier Ай бұрын

"Low energy " - how much energy is necessary to make sulfuric acid?

@richdobbs6595 Ай бұрын

The even more important question is how much energy does it take to recycle sulfuric acid. Creating brand new sulfuric acid doesn't require a lot of energy since there is energy available in burning sulfur. In addition, processing H2S recovered from desulfurization is a burning process. But recycling acid by burning it to break it back down to SO2 requires an external heat source, like using natural gas to evaporate the water.

@jpcool95480 Ай бұрын

Sulfuric acid is one of the most produced commodity chemicals on the planet. The production of it is highly optimized. You typically start from elemental S and react it with O2 which produces lots of heat, so energy input should be relatively low. For a battery recycling process that uses it there are likely ways to purify the solvent at some point, and even recover some from the sulfur containing of-gases to make more Sulfuric acid.

@shutinalley Ай бұрын

Secrets are why we're still in the dark ages.

@Netherlands031 Ай бұрын

So how does recycling compare to mining? Surely to extract high purity metals from ore is even more difficult

@philbiker3 Ай бұрын

Mining is much much easier and cheaper. And well established.

@Netherlands031 Ай бұрын

@@philbiker3 what makes it easier and cheaper? You probably also have to dissolve the minerals and purify then in some way

@philbiker3 Ай бұрын

@@Netherlands031 It depends on so many factors and can be different from mine to mine and recycling center to recycling center; and different materials are easier or harder to recycle. Steel is super easy and cheap to recycle, so is aluminum. Both of those metals are recycled all over the world super efficiently because it's cheaper and easier to recycle than it is to mine and refine. This video we are commenting on explains how difficult all these specific materials from batteries are to recycle. They're not like the steel and aluminum that can just be melted down. The biggest reason that it's easier and cheaper to mine is that the industrial infrastructure is already in place at scale and well understood. Nothing new has to be built, it's already in use all over the world. Perhaps in the future when there are more batteries to recycle economies of scale will make it cheaper and easier to recycle these battery components.

@petrichor259 Ай бұрын

@@Netherlands031The massive quantity being mined makes it cheap

@richdobbs6595 Ай бұрын

@@Netherlands031 The mines produce streams that have a more consistent impurity profile. Also, no one is expecting mines to recover 99 percent of the metal in the ore, if it is not profitable. Practical recycling would be roughly separate the components in the black mass and take the most valuable stream back into the plants that refine the ore at the right spot. You probably wouldn't even remove the acid, since the same acids are probably used in the refining process.

@Thomas-jg5uh Ай бұрын

Regarding the basic economics. No, it's not about "how much do you pay when you acquire the material" (8:10) At least not for the overall profitability of recycling. You only pay a lot if other recycling companies are profiting from it. If there is no one who can make use of the old batteries, the price is zero or negative (cost for the waste). Only if the recycling process itself (without the price of the old batteries) is more expensive than the market value of the metals, then there will be no one who would like to recycle it.

@callumery119 4 күн бұрын

In the UK, companies have regulatory pressure to bring down their Carbon Dioxide Equivalent emissions. They would be incentives to use these kinds of processing plants, and usually, you'd pay for commercial waste to be disposed of. So there's potential here for when/if plants were to become more common of companies to benefit and maybe give the batteries for free.

@catochondria Ай бұрын

Wait we're supposed to recycle these? I thought we were just throwing them in the ocean to recharge the eels!

@HT-vd4in Ай бұрын

You should try using the exhaust gases, which contain a lot of energy, for other energy intensive processes.

@yodaiam1000 Ай бұрын

You should also discuss the relative challenges for mining and separating/purifying the materials. Recycling is challenging but is mining a challenge as well? Even if it is challenging, it appears all the technically issues are solved since it is done on a daily basis already. The one telling comment was that if you get the material for free, you can make lots of profit. If that is the case, it is economically feasible. The cost of the material can be settled by the market. The cost of disposal is either free to dispose of the battery or you potentially get some money for the used battery. No matter how you cut it, it is way better than dumping tons of CO2, toxins and carcinogens into the atmosphere. I would also like to hear what the carbon footprint of recycling is compared to mining.

@hans69.mp4 Ай бұрын

Great content! Awesome breakdown! Amazing enthusiasm from Kai Steinecke!

@A3Kr0n Ай бұрын

At least someone is being honest about the challenges.

@DWPlanetA Ай бұрын

Glad you liked our video 🤞 and if you like it subscribe to our channel, we post new videos every Friday ✨

@kevindruce8915 Ай бұрын

Thanks for this as it is interesting. Could you put on your list what is happening to vehicle to grid as that has a potential to provide a lot of storage capacity that would be very useful please?

@sean_haz Ай бұрын

"and recycling is better than mining them and just throwing them away" Why do you think that's the case? Its cheaper to mine than recycle for now, at some point that will change but not for now

@osteopathichomeopathicking6154 20 сағат бұрын

Exactly my thoughts otherwise they would be showing their full method and these recyling centers would be popping up all over.

@MarkM-bb5rz Ай бұрын

This was very informative and helpful in understanding some of the byproducts and risks of Electric Vehicles. Well done.

@maciejdelekta6167 Ай бұрын

Well that’s good news there aren’t that much batteries to recycle in a first place. Also apart from material recycling, using it as a power wall storage may also be considered as a recycling. But it’s much easier and more beneficial so let’s just keep that also in mind.

@hgbugalou Ай бұрын

We can't even recycle sorted plastics efficiently. I am not holding my breath on battery recycling coming anywhere near economical viability.

@osteopathichomeopathicking6154 20 сағат бұрын

No doubt. for years they also lied about recycling glass. We'd put the bottles in our recycling, or bring them in for deposite, and yet they'd still end up in the land fill for years. Then they finally scrapped glass bottles.

@lawrenceheyman435 Ай бұрын

Enjoyed the video again, so well done. If you follow the maxim of reduce, reuse and only last recycle, then it's good EV batteries are lasting longer and then being repurposed as home batteries. I'm hopeful the issues covered will be solved over time. Eventually we'll be driving a lot of EVs, so that is still a lot of material.

@DWPlanetA Ай бұрын

Hey lawrence! Glad you liked it! Subscribe to out channel, we post new videos every Friday ✨

@matthewwakefield6321 Ай бұрын

A lot of the problems you mentioned are reduced when you take SMSs approach (the plant you showed footage of) and sell the plants to the manufacturer. Eg Mercedes has a base level of feedstock, deconstructing their own packs is standard, and they are users of the end product and only need to make a smaller profit on the process as it’s part of an integrated lifecycle with more stable economics.

@TrrripS 3 күн бұрын

Li-cycle is the main battery recycling company in the U.S.A. and in Canada. It's only going to get better. Remember it's not just for cars, it's all the battery's in your Amazon products and your phones and more. Cars will be the main source in 5 year. So I'm investing in the stock now.

@syproful 2 күн бұрын

Let’s hope they don’t run dry like many in the field.

@kambleji Ай бұрын

Battery manufacturing and recycling standards and policy should be implemented by the central governments across the world. It will make setting up of battery manufacturing, R&D and recycling easy for any company in the country

@yungbreakfast9487 Ай бұрын

Black Mass is a really good name for a metal band btw

@Etheoma 5 күн бұрын

To be fair I think it makes much more sense to give car batteries a second life as grid storage as the performance requirements are lower, like obviously they will then come to end of life there and then actual recycling makes sense, and there will be some cells that wont meet the grade for a second life also.

@Commander_ZiN 26 күн бұрын

Thanks for talking about the stuff others do not. I'm tired of one side saying renewables and batteries won't work and the other side saying it's the perfect solution. I just want the real story.

@kennethvenezia4400 Күн бұрын

Ya, how about all the chemical waste? Does it take a lot of clean water? How much energy does it take?

@arifs.tiammar4857 Ай бұрын

Many thanks for your video. I just realised that recycling used-battery is not so easy on the commercial scale including the feedstock of used battery for raw material. Also the profit is too small... 😒

@DWPlanetA Ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!✨

@fasamelon 15 күн бұрын

insightful.

@urbanstrencan Ай бұрын

Great video, keep up with bringing us content like this ❤❤❤❤

@DWPlanetA Ай бұрын

Hey there! Glad you liked it! Subscribe to our channel, we post new videos every Friday ✨

@EdgarMoreiradaRocha Ай бұрын

the fan at 3:06 just looks like a turbo

@joaopedrosilva8883 Ай бұрын

a car turbo is just a fan

@bazoo513 Ай бұрын

10:10 - Well, it's good we have _that_ problem: we get more from every kilogram of raw materials we put into batteries. This only means that the industrial scale recyclers will come online a bit later.

@tHebUm18 Ай бұрын

10:11 A good thing for both consumers and giving the battery recycling industry more time to improve processes en route to a circular supply chain.

@girenloland 7 күн бұрын

When you interview people, turn down the MUSIC!!

@benwouda 5 күн бұрын

I'm hearing a lot of chemicals that also are used/present in the oil and gas extraction/production

@ObiePaddles Ай бұрын

Fascinating. 2nd use is probably more important than recycling right now.

@Philip-hv2kc Ай бұрын

A number of questions arise but we can leave it all for another day . Li and Mn will also be dissolved by the sulphuric acid , why ain't it mentioned? Ni and Cu probably won't be dissolved so much if in pure element form .

@atehrani Ай бұрын

Laws should mandate battery form factors just as we have for 12v. Similarly 12v batteries have a high recycling rate, we can do this for EV batteries. Making them a closed loop

@teardowndan5364 Ай бұрын

The Achilles' heel of lots of potentially revolutionary new tech: going from the lab proof-of-concept to sustainable, scalable and economically viable process or product.

@timothydevries383 Ай бұрын

I wonder if the separated elements are pure enough to use in a new cell.

@yodaiam1000 Ай бұрын

Yes, they are.

@larryc1616 Ай бұрын

Yes and 90% of lithium and other metals can be recycled from used battery packs.

@proxyblue1961 Ай бұрын

3:52 H₂S is not sulfuric acid but hydrogen sulfide. In addition, numbers in chemical formulae should be subscript.

@bazoo513 Ай бұрын

This is early days in battery recycling. Every new industrial process had its teething problems. Even at its present state, only paper can be more effectively recycled than batteries. That certainly does't apply to all kinds of plastic, we all collect and deposit in recycling bins. As for recyclers paying for old batteries, the EU already has regulatory solutions in other areas: manufacturers are responsible for recycling, or risk large fines. Some might even _pay_ for recycling of their old batteries. Sometimes not everything can be left to market and speculators who operate there.

@kexcz8276 Ай бұрын

So, from my humble perspective of a bachelors mechanical engineering student, the first logical step for me would be normalization- manufactures should agree on the sizes of the individual batteries, so the robots can be programmed and dismantle them- that would cut out the expensive manual labour. And then maybe, but ofcourse, I don't know how much competetive they want to be, they should agree on which types of the battery fillings to use. I feel like if there will be just few simillar types, that this challenge can be overcome too. But again, I am writing this here just because norms at my field usually do a pretty good job at lowering the cost and effort of designing, manufacturing and selling certain parts....

@blackterminal 15 сағат бұрын

The leader of this team is Herr Solvent.

@rothn2 Ай бұрын

Remove 95% of the impurities or get product that is 95% pure? It's a big difference-- curious to know! Also, would love to see their papers in the description!

@lowtech_1 Ай бұрын

Reuse as static, say solar storage, is not always as easy as it sounds. They should do story on that. Anyway it just postpones, the need to dump or recycle.

@Nimrawid Ай бұрын

3:57 The chemical compound H2S is Hydrogen sulfide not sulfuric acid. Guys check your stuff twice!

@DWPlanetA Ай бұрын

Thanks for spotting this! You're right, we wrote Sulphuric Acid (H2S). But we meant Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S). Apologies for the mistake. 🤞

@vuaeco Ай бұрын

I'd be happy to "recycle" any "free" EV batteries for my Ebike and solar power system without having to use any toxic chemicals to process it.

@xiphoid2011 Ай бұрын

The problem with recycling has always been that, in most cases, it cost more than buying new.

@hiraktalukdar7540 Ай бұрын

The Lab Assistant 😍

@madcow3417 Ай бұрын

2:42 Little Timmy was a chemist. Little Timmy is no more. For what he thought was H2O was H2SO4.

@Roxor128 Ай бұрын

I learned it as "Little Ricky's dead and gone, his face we'll see no more. For what he thought was H2O was H2SO4."

@johnnorlans Ай бұрын

That is the most important part of this video, what are we going to do with the the byproduct ?

@neverrl3379 Ай бұрын

Bro! Not green at all? Ohhhhh no bro. Ohhhhhh no. =`(

@neverrl3379 Ай бұрын

My hopes and dreams bro

@jurepecar9092 Ай бұрын

Answer is obvious - STANDARDIZE. Lets begin with clearly labeling battery cells of what is inside them and in what ratios. In a decade or two we can pick a battery chemistry that is good enough for most use cases, declare is as the only acceptable battery chemistry and optimize our recycling processes for it. Should work fine.

@adventtrooper Ай бұрын

That is one of the goals of the EU standard for battery 'passports'; to ensure each cell is labelled (most likely with a QR code) so that the origin and chemistry can be read at end of life.

@MrKylerichards Ай бұрын

I wonder how the PFAS contained within the battery anode is captured in this process. It has the potential to cause a lot of contaminated process water.

@vegasromaniac Ай бұрын

Awesome video

@DWPlanetA Ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it 😎 If you like videos like this subscribe to our channel, we post new ones every Friday ✨

@RonakDhakan Ай бұрын

Just like the input cost for recycling determines its viability, we can increase the input cost of mining with taxes to make mining unviable as compared to recycling.

@richdobbs6595 Ай бұрын

Taxing mining doesn't make recycling more viable. It takes money from one group for what ever public purpose that are recipients. And it increases the cost to society as folks do something less efficient rather than more. If there are externalities that are being ignore, economic theory suggests that the system becomes more efficient because of appropriate taxation. But absent that connection, it just makes the system less efficient.

@0Aus Ай бұрын

😄 you certainly have suggested a backwards way to go about it. However that would be an issue for a very long time. We can't get it out the ground quick enough.

@stevengill1736 Ай бұрын

Any recycling is driven by economics: if the recycled material is more expensive than the fresh material, it's not likely to be adopted ( unless it's a PR stunt, like plastic recycling)

@martythemartian99 Ай бұрын

How much of the fuel we pump into our fuel tanks is recycled?🤔😉

@migteleco Ай бұрын

When I see images of old batteries being shredded I always think the same, ¿Wouldn't be better to disasemble it piece by piece? I mean, every piece is made of separated elements, why shred the battery as a whole, when you could treat each of the separated pieces? A lot of energy was used in separate those elements to make those different parts and components during the fabrication process, why mix all of that together again, just to separate the elements again shortly after. I can't believe that it's cheaper this way, to be honest... 🤔

@0Aus Ай бұрын

Safety issues, time, cost, energy consumed during the process. Have you ever dismantled a large battery? It's not ment to come apart 😂 it's hard work and potentially dangerous

@johnramirez5032 Ай бұрын

This is way out of my wheel house. One thing that wasnt mentioned is the cost of electricity. If you had the electricity free would that make the process cheaper and therefore more profitable?

@shikhargupta9540 Ай бұрын

I'm no battery scientist but why do we shred and mix everything down to powder form and then find ways to separate. Is it like impossible to separate cathode and anode? Just asking. Can't we just charge the battery 100% and recover Lithium Cathode? Idk I think physical separation might be expensive because of human intervention but it seems to be easier option to me.

@MikeInc79 27 күн бұрын

Graphite can't recycled and is classified as finite material. Graphite is pretty complex. Natural graphite can vary much in it's quality. Synthetic graphite is better but dirty and energy demanding to make. Petcoke, tar and slack are blended together in steam heated blenders and during high temperatures and high currencies this plastic mass is turned into graphite. Right now there's no market for recycled lithium carbonate, It's thrown away like waste

@enigmaticloremaster1700 4 күн бұрын

So where do the Pfas chemical end up? In landfill most likely.

@mvphasser2 Ай бұрын

Second life batteries are the most important in my opinion. Reuse rather than recycle

@ShieldAre Ай бұрын

If there aren't that many batteries to recycle yet, and the materials aren't that expensive, that's actually sort of good news, means there is more time to spend on perfecting the recycling technology, and we aren't anywhere close to hitting the limits of how many EVs can be made. A lot of people in the past claimed that there isn't such and such material to transform all cars to electric, for example. Whether or not that is true, we are clearly not yet hitting those limits, as the materials are still so cheap as to not make recycling that profitable.

@timothykeith1367 Ай бұрын

The "cheap" materials is a reason for the high costs of EV batteries - which could become more costly. M

@delusion2987 Ай бұрын

@@timothykeith1367 could become more costly? where? in fossil fantasy land? battery prices have been falling like a stone. latest BYD and CATL LFP batteries are being priced at $60/kWh. 10 years ago NMC pack was at $400/kWh.

@MrCaiobrz Ай бұрын

Bottomline, the battery industry is still not fixed, we still don't have the perfect battery (and probably never will because each have a strengh and weakness, so likelly we will always have different types of batteries). So, only once the industry can settle on which of each different compositions we should "standardize" batteries, we will have a proper recycling. However, I must say that for all the Eco-green talk, asking companies to turn a profit from recycling is a little strong, Governments should subsidize recycling.

@wensdyy6466 Ай бұрын

with the rise of sodium bateries (where there is basicly no incentive to recycle because you get nothing valuable out of them) all of thi wiil be even more complicated.

@KuruGDI Ай бұрын

In Lithium Ion Batteries Cobalt is actually the metal that is included in only very tiny amounts. What happens to the rest of the metal in the lab? If it's just dissolved in some acid, 99% recycling efficiency on Cobalt is good, but 0% on the other metals would be way worse than that.

@dogsbodyish8403 Ай бұрын

It's cheaper to mine at the moment, I should think. Luckily, batteries seem to have very long lives, and EV batteries have a full life after their use in their original role (in static applications).

@itsmegiorgio 5 күн бұрын

Except China has almost monopoly on the mining. Recent events have told how much danger there is in becoming dependent on another country for your energy needs. And there are a lot of alternatives for static applications, but not for vehicles

@dogsbodyish8403 5 күн бұрын

@@itsmegiorgio I see CATL has announced an LFP battery which is guaranteed for 1.24 million miles. So even lees need for recycling.

@itsmegiorgio 5 күн бұрын

@@dogsbodyish8403 companies make all sorts of announcements. Not necessarily that will be successful. We can't plan on the assumption that will even be commercialised. That would be like divesting from renewables while we wait for nuclear fusion

@dogsbodyish8403 5 күн бұрын

@@itsmegiorgio CATL are the biggest and most respected supplier of EV car batteries, and their track record for living up to their claims is second to none. You should consult the Electric Viking for more info, but 400k miles is already becoming commonplace anyway, using existing batteries (which have obviously been around for quite a while, so aren't exactly anything new).

@itsmegiorgio 5 күн бұрын

@@dogsbodyish8403 that is really good and progress of any kind is always welcome, but I don't think that takes away anything from the fact that anything we produce should be recyclable, even after many reuses and how many miles you squeeze out of them. We're still dealing with finite resources and we've all seen how not taking that into consideration is going

@paulnewman9275 Ай бұрын

Crazy world .....

@bikerfirefarter7280 Күн бұрын

Thank you for that sanitised/patronising statement of the bloody obvious.

@davidbangsdemocracy5455 Ай бұрын

It isn’t very informative to visit a University rather than a commercial facility. Nobody would even expect a University to have solved scalability and efficiency issues.

@alvaroga1n 18 күн бұрын

Battery manufactures should pay for all this to happen so margins aren’t so small

@FrankensteinDIYkayak Ай бұрын

in A.S.M.E. magazine decades ago there was an article "design for lifecycle" things like design for manufacture are well known but lifecycle is another thing. since the article I'm sure there has been many new tech developments which I think would make it more feasible. one part of lifecycle design is design for disassembly. I'd tend to think the shredding and separation part could be minimized and the batteries could be disassembled more with quicker and easier methods. thing is though these issues have to be included at the design phase rather than after. too complex for online discussion and government regulations?

@ericolens3 Ай бұрын

12th comment, not bad for a DWA video.

@matthewmanzi9504 Ай бұрын

Battery recycling is not an issue. We have been doing it since we started making lithium ion cells. The process can get better but it’s pretty good now.

@JohnHughesChampigny 7 күн бұрын

Oddly no consideration of the environmental effects of mining, as if the minerals came out of the ground pure and didn't need many similar processes.

@cheknauss9867 Ай бұрын

I think it's worth doing, profitable or not.

@justanotherearthling1062 Ай бұрын

Isn't this funded with the Carbon tax? It seems like the right way to spend that money?

@DWPlanetA Ай бұрын

That's a good question! Actually, we made a story about carbon tax issues. You can check it out here: 👉 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m5Z8isx1ydyqdZ8.htmlfeature=shared And do not forget to subscribe to us if you like videos like these. We post new videos every Friday ✨

@mceajc Ай бұрын

Looks like we need to make mining more expensive - and tax the extraction companies to ensure ecological clean up is possible once a mine closes, and to subsidise recycling.

@0Aus Ай бұрын

Lol that's a long way off.😂 as for clean up mine after. Yes we already do rehabilitation.

@Kerbezena Ай бұрын

The biggest differnce in price for battery materials is one that the consumers of these ressources, i.e. battery producers, don't really like to talk about. Materials recovery and battery recycling are, at least for the time being, developed and performed by highly skilled personnel in high-income regions. Mining of raw materials depends heavily on EXPLOITATION, not only of the Earth but also of the workers doing it. This, besides the technical challenges of recycling, is why mining is so profitable in comparison.

@0Aus Ай бұрын

Not sure how man individuals are get exploited no doubt some but lol. Scale you don't have enough volume to recycle on any scale.

@KokkoroConnoisseur Ай бұрын

wouldn't this all be easier if they just took the batteries apart by hand and took the individual bits, but by bit?

@SisterSunny Ай бұрын

I suppose it's not necessarily a bad thing that demand for recycling batteries is low... _because of_ the demand to reuse them instead, haha

@TimMountjoy-zy2fd Ай бұрын

What was clear was that if the recycler got the batteries for free they made a lot of money. That's good news as it means there is a instant market for an old and dead battery so people will cash the battery in rather than dump them. Maybe the recycling of batteries will just happen naturally and not require massive Government intervention / subsidies etc etc.

@manzourahmed3383 Ай бұрын

Why not use AI robots to take apart different types of batteries?

@KuruGDI Ай бұрын

As long as the EU allows one-way vapes and their lithium ion batteries being thrown away (and not recycled), they better come down from their high moral horse, keep their mouth shut and don't whine about percentages of recycled batteries.

@funnycatvideos5490 3 күн бұрын

yeah that is just as bad. It just shows you how cheap it is to make these batteries and how expensive it would be to try to recycle them.

@marcolima89 Ай бұрын

If there aren't many batteries to recycle because they're being reused, or because they last longer, then I'd say that's a good thing. Reusing is always better than recycling.