If you are looking to take your training to the next level then consider one of my online science based training plans available here: www.trainingpeaks.com/coach/dylanjohnsontraining#trainingplans

I could listen to this sort of realistic, informed, bike science talk all day. Thanks for the interviews with Josh. Great stuff, Dylan!

Hi Dylan this is really interesting content- thanks for putting this together. One thought for a follow up piece, Josh talks about the maintenance regime, how about a tutorial video showing what and how he’d consider good practice for cleaning and maintenance

Really nerdy stuff that's irrelevant to folks at my end of the talent/fitness spectrum, but really fascinating. Love your channel

Great video Dylan and Josh. 👌🏼

Best IRL applicational cycling channel on YT. Fascinating yet practical. Thanks!

These interviews are fantastic! I'd listen to more of this any day!

when i was 11 years old ( 54 years ago) i did not know my Phillips (used) 10 speed bike needed to be serviced/oiled. and the chain snapped. Thank you Ace Cycle (long since closed) for not laughing too hard. The chain replacement cost $3 Canadian. That was a decent amount of money back in the day. After that I always oiled my chain. Hey what does a little kid with no coaching or advice know? This sort of education that is provided was simply not available in the 60s to 1990s? maybe. I also love the "currency" analogy of oversize wheels. Suggestion: currency of one KG extra weight .... I know GCN did something like that with water battles on a climb. As an old overweight rider I do keep my bike clean and lubed. Cannot stand squeeks. But if i want to go fast, i ride DOWNHILL lol. Great Channel Dylan.

been saying this for years... when they started adding gears the friction went up... my 7 speed sun-tour superb pro freewheel with a sedis sport chain with cone bearing BB - was almost frictionless. I could spin it backwards 5-8 x from one push - yes with all the parts on.

Oh Yes!! Dylan you’ve definitely excelled yourself these last 2 vids💥 I’m sure for most non pro racers / enthusiasts this info is just invaluable… prep then maintain all your equipment, zip your jersey up, improve your riding & your position…. and get to leave your wallet at home!! Brilliantly simple 🍻😃🤩

Happy to hear hot wax is best as I already do it. Never really believed the claims for watt savings before but did it because it’s so much less messy unless you have a bike shed. Would never go back now even if there had been no W benefit. Once you know what you are doing the hassle is hardly anything extra. As regards oversized pulley wheels. I have some on my TT bike but bought them from AliExpress and they’re much cheaper. In fact I wasn’t happy with the original pulley wheels so bought a couple of ceramic pulley wheels to put in the cage. They spin very easily and are big. Doubt the very expensive ceramic speed ones are much better. May be worth considering for anyone who looks at the prices of oversized jockey wheels and thinks ‘f*** that’.

Yay, Rex 🇫🇮 gets a mention. I visited their factory, they actually make cross country ski wax but now also focus on chain lube. Rex is an awesome lube 🙌😎

3 in 1 and the local true value/ace hardware store. Brings back memories and never had an issue.

Excellent conversation--fabulous content. Only complaint: Josh Poertner's mic or voice was really soft and it was hard to hear him even with the volume cranked. Hopefully you can fix it for future videos.

Why doesn't anyone consider a Rohloff Speedhub with no derailleur? It has a perfect chainline in every gear.

Plain food grade parrafin for me. Works great (fast, hardly any wear). Chain is super clean (no black grinding paste). I forgot to add it's super cheap (I paid $25 for 5kg!). No bad PTFE which poisons the environment

As a weekend warrior road cyclist, I have been using canning (Gulf) wax and PTFE for six months. The engineering expertise that Josh provides bolsters my confidence in the change: cleaner, longer wearing, more effective. Granted, I agree with the drawbacks he also points out: crockpot, tedious, etc. If these bother you, it may just not be for you. I also note that Josh didn't make a distinction between road/pavement and dirt/gravel surfaces. I have not been waxing the mountain bike chain, thinking that the dirty environment meant that I would have to do it too frequently, compared to the road bike chain. I may need to reconsider this assumption, as I never considered the "dirt extruding" action of the wax that he describes.

The reason I'm a fan of 1x in a utility bike is I've always found the rear derailleurs are easier to set up and index without rubbing than the front. I don't get the same "flawless shifting" out of the front, or maybe for a while when the parts are new. Most of my scenarios are stop and go and I don't enter races so am not concerned about exactly the right gear (I'd just go slightly lower), so wide spaced gearing is an advantage in a city with getting up to speed, especially on an electric bike where I don't need the narrow spacing because the electric motor doesn't care about a tooth difference in gearing. I currently have a 48 tooth chainring on it and an 8 speed 32-11 cassette. I like that it has an 11 and 12 as I feel the narrower spacing should be at the top end when the bike is almost out of power. I guess I've never thought that closely about my lube. I've used Carlube LM2, vegetable oil, finish line. I don't tend to use dry lube that much as it requires a clean chain and I'm not the type of person who degreases his chain after every ride. My chain probably has lots of dirt in it.

You deserve kudos just for the fact that in the cover picture of the video you pointed at SRAM saying slow and at Shimano saying fast :-)

Listening to this put me in a very happy place. Sheer bike dorkery at it’s finest! 👍 Josh seems like a tech ninjer. Really enjoyed the interview !

I swear by my 1x setup for CX (and MTB), but training on the road with it does indeed suck, which is what I assume he's really talking about. Being slightly off-geared is a good tradeoff for the mechanical simplicity of 1x in the mud, but on the road, I'm never comfortable.

The chain waxing process is actually fun in a nerdy kind of way and straightforward: 1 - clean chain in hot soapy water in ultrasonic machine, 2 - rinse chain in hot water and bake at 170 degF (my lowest oven setting) for an hour to clear water from pin regions. 3 - leave chain in hot wax overnight on lowest setting, 4 - hang chain in straight vertical line until wax is hard (old wire coat hanger works great). The ultrasonic cleaner is also great for cleaning cassettes and rim brake assemblies. The wax sheds any dirt and will last at least 1-2 K miles if you are a low power rider like me.

Now I need to go back and watch that video. That conversation has given me more valuable cycling information than any video I’ve seen in a long time. Thanks for this!

Waxing is always going to be the best, because it makes you clean your drive train, so you eliminate the buildup or dirt and debris. You can strip your chain with gasoline and dip with a double tin over a stove , add pfte powder .

With drive train losses being tested at 250W, how does it scale with changing power? I.E. is it linear where doubling the power doubles the power loss, quadratic, exponential or something else?

Great content Dylan! Many thanks to Josh. His "snake oil" comments are so right! I use wax just to prolong the life of my drivetrain and to help keep it clean. A couple of watts won't make a difference for me, but it's nice to have. So, when you switching back to 2X?

Dave Rome at Cyclingtips did an epic series on chains and chain maintenance including articles on chain efficiency and durability, lubes, cleaning techniques, degreasers, checking wear, quick links, waxing, and more. Well worth the time to read.

Thanks Dylan!!! Josh is an amazing resource of knowledge and you asked him the right questions! 😀. Got to go buy some Silca lube now for my new bike.

Loved this content Dylan. Your stuff is always amazing but having an expert guest once in a while provides great discussion.

Agree, you can't beat the old school 53 - 39 12- 25 set up for the road

I winced watching you put that on mid race in a video Dylan... with many lubes that have a carrier that needs to dry at least overnight... you don’t want to run them freshly-lubed or the friction really jumps up. A guy on my team tested one of the faster ones 1) fresh and wet and then 2) dried overnight, and the difference was about 9 watts. ouch! I think some of the lab tests have shown similar results with fresh applications.

I got used to apply Squirt mid race or long rides in gravel and MTB, I feel It certainly has a higher psychological effect on you. Great video as usual Dylan, great guest.

BHD uses ACTUAL snake oil when going for a KOM!!! Almost 100% efficient!

wow this has been an eye opener! Thanks Dylan. Love the show

Great video , thanks for all the work you do I can always count on you for the right answers

I was hot waxing chains years ago when nobody was even doing that. I would also mix powdered Teflon in the mix. I like experimenting with things . The problem with hot wax is that it doesn’t last very long. I like going on long rides and at the end of 100 mile it’ll actually add a little more friction. I’ve found over the years that full synthetic 2 stroke motor oil works the best and is the cheapest. You just have to do a little more maintenance to keep things clean.. I can really feel less resistance in the pedals and that’s where I counts.

I have been using a slow cooker with paraffin was and PTFE powder for 10 years wont use anything else. Once you get the knack of it it is the easiest and quickest method by miles!

I remember reading the articles on zerofrictioncycling about the chain lube situation and they were really extensive. I ended up using the mspeedwax hot wax, and I'm too weak to know the difference. But! I was mainly getting it to keep the chain clean, and it has worked super well for that. No more black grease everywhere. So far 1500 miles in and the chain wear tool still says below 0.5%, but we'll see I guess. I do rewax every 150 miles or so. Initially the biggest barrier was getting a new chain degreased before waxing, since I live in an apartment and can't deal with all the chemicals. But I found out that mspeedwax actually offers new chains prewaxed, so that was perfect.

Regarding a preference for 1x or 2x and (not) being bothered by larger jumps between gears: I went from a 50/34 and 11-32 on my old road bike to 42-tooth coupled to 10-36 on my new one. The gearing feels identical in terms of gear steps to my legs, I’m just missing one gear at the top and a little less than one gear at the bottom. I don’t find myself yearning for any other gears in between. In fact, I think I would welcome larger gear steps at the climbing end (similar to SRAM’s 10-33 cassette, Rotor’s 10-39 cassette my my Shimano XT 11-46 cassette). Perhaps I care less, because I started out life as a mountain biker and changes in cadence due to terrain are just a fact of life.

Josh speaks sense. I am an engineer and it underscores everything I had sort of thought of trying to make my bike more efficient.

21:28 Francis Cade did a good job on cleaning bike!!!

I wax my chain by immersion. But this provided great info on many issues.

I used a hairdryer to warm the chain before applying Squirt in the winter here in the Uk. And I keep the Squirt bottle in the house.

I have been delighted with Squirt, which Josh highlights, but it doesn't work as a pure squirt on very well. I use a heat gun after I drip it on. Works great, lasts perhaps forever? Chain doesn't seem to get dirty under most circumstances. Brush it off, add more, heat it up.

24:04 such a gem

I'm a team mechanic & while this info is interesting & worthy to racing cyclists, it's not really something for the average Joe cyclist. While I obviously hot wax chains for the racing lads, the best recommendation I give to most cyclists is keep your chain & drive train very clean & use a good oil/silicone/ptfe based lube in the right areas before each ride. This has been my tip for many many years & it serves the purpose for the majority of riders. Re clean the chain/drive train in-between each ride & remove, clean, grease the jockey wheel bushes from time to time. Doing the above is straightforward for most people & gives the results most want, it also prolongs the drivetrain parts.

Very nice video dylan !! We hear about a lot of things around marginal gains but we never talk about helmets and which ones are faster this could make a interesting topic for a future video

I totally agree. I managed to improve lubrication and aero on bike and reduce weight on bike. Now I am looking to improve aero on rider and reducing weight on rider. All this avoiding spending a fortune.

Wow! That discussion about 1x was eye-opening! Thanks for that.

Thanks for the cameo Dylan!

I used to wax chains in the 90's. I had 5-7 chains and would ruin them through. I would do 3-4 MTB rides each before switching them out. Great solution for dusty conditions. But adding and removing links did cause a few more chain breakage issues on the trail. I stopped with the availability of dry lubes.

Keep up the good work , i m just getting back to cycing at 50 , i raced at age 15 /16 years old and won a provincial race. I bought this year a BMC Team machine wich took me almost a year in this industry now adays to pin point what i need among all the brands ect...and the level of technology and how F1 like preciss twiking level it came to is astonishing to me , but realy cool at the same time. A hole UNiverse for me to learn , like this video...very interesting. Thanks , keep it up.

Hell yeah!!! Goin' full ceramic and single track, with a 7speed cassette --- ASAP. -- and send me a case of that gnarly beast powder you got for sale! Really, awesome two videos with Josh. Need to go clean my bike now. Thanks much Dylan!

I've always had my doubts about OSPWs and ceramic bearings. Do you really need a fragile ultra low friction bearing in a low speed application like cycling? Not really. Not to mention the larger surface area (aero loss) and extra chain links required (more weight) of OSPWs. If they were really that good I suspect Shimano, SRAM etc would spec them on their top end groupsets.

Found with wax based lubes.. first quick link essential... for Squirt put in microwave for 10seconds to apply... 1st time and every so often throw chain in oven and also heat Squirt in microwave RIGHT before applying...

I am, and will always be, skeptical of a lubrication method that requires you to re-lube mid-ride. As far as OSPW, there are alternatives to CeramicSpeed that are far cheaper and spin far better. #iykyk But I'm also glad you cut the part about 'aerodynamic drag loss' of OSPWs, since it's complete nonsense. It's at the back of the bike and sitting behind a spinning leg. When you can show me clean air hitting it in the real world, I'll listen. But you can't. If we're suddenly worried about a tech that costs 3w, then we should talk about disc brakes...

Great video. It does leave me with a big question for Josh - what's the best way to clean my chain? I've heard different POV's on using everything from citrus degreaser to Dawn dishwashing liquid. I use Super Secret, but I'd love an "official" answer on how to prep my chain properly before reapplying. Thanks

I did an accidental test on this very subject. I had dry chain lube on in a very fast group ride. We hit pouring rain and all lube was washed out of my chain. The chain sounded like severe cross-chaining and I swear I lost 50 watts and was promptly dropped. That is when I went to Squirt, have not had a problem sense.

Great video. I use Squirt on my old-school MTB with an 8-speed cassette, as the chain is pretty wide, and there's no issue with penetration. The road bike uses an 11-speed cassette, so I go with RnR Gold there - thinner viscosity is hopefully allowing it go get into those micro-gaps, if you will. HUGE improvement in both bikes over my previous ProLink ProGold oil-based lube.

great chat, it seems to affirm my lubing technique which starts with a molten speedwax immersion, but then i'll apply squirt to extend the effective lifetime whenever the chain starts to squeek. it means i don't have to do another immersion since the hot wax is still likely in the critical areas of the chain. the squirt doesn't need to penetrate as far, it just needs to replace the wax that's been pushed out. best of both worlds

I switched to silca hot wax on both MTB and Gravel bikes last season and will never go back to trad lubes again. The treatment lasts a long time, the drivetrain stays clean, fast, and quiet. Once you get used to the process it also saves time over other lube methods, and drivetrain parts last longer as well, and cleaning the drivetrain is super easy. But 1x for me on gravel as I just prefer the simplicity, even though I understand I am losing a little efficiency with cross chaining, I am OK with it. Also, I never drop a chain with 1x, and a single chain drop during a ride/race will lose more time than anything else.

15.000 km now on waxed chains on my road bike: since I changed from oil lubes to standard parrafines (candles) + PTFE powder I could eliminate the all the dirt, wear and incredible workload for cleaning. Of course you have to setup the mixture, heat it up and penetrate the chain(s) in the molten Parrafine but all in all it is less time consuming. A waxed chain never attracts dirt and mud.

Hey Dylan, i haven't moved over to wax based lubes, but thinking having multiple chains waxed and ready, then swapping easily with quick links would be pretty time effective (allowing for multiple chain hot waxing with one prep). Making hot melt wax less of a chore is leveling this option with convenient liquid lubes that gives you the placebo peace of mind I get from doing my due diligence pre-ride chain lubing.

I ride strictly for exercise and the idea that I can get and an hour's worth of riding done in 50 minutes? Hell yeah!

Would absolutely love would a semi-frequent (is bi-weekly too much to ask :) discussion between you and Josh that covers all the little things we cyclists over or under think!

No need to heat anything here in Georgia in the late spring through mid to late November. Having a lube that doesn't wash out easily however is quite useful

Cool video! I use Squirt lube and will probably keep doing so, as it is convenient, fairly inexpensive and seemingly pretty fast too. Although it never occurred to me to warm it up before applying, but it makes perfect sense! Thanks for the tip!

I've just converted my Ultegra 6600 to 1x10 with 52/11-28 so i guess the downsides aren't really that present and it works just fine, can recommend.

Thanks for the feature 😅 a clean bike is a fast

Excellent thanks to both of you guys !

I'm not exactly sure about bicycles, but I know with motorcycle chains, oil is the only thing activating doing any lubricating, anything else just gets flung off the first time you run it after you use them. Some of them are good for other purposes, cleaning, derusting etc. but I wouldn't get too excited about most chain lube lol.

If you have a heat gun, would it be a good idea to really heat up the chain, something around 180 degrees before you put the chain in the wax? The idea being that it would let the wax get deep more quickly because it the chain wouldn't be cooling the wax as the wax is penetrating.

Fantastic video! You definitely should do more videos like this one!

Thank you for this video - loved the interview!

In the MTB world I microwave my squirt before application and use my thumb and index finger to push it into my links as I rotate the the drive train . 2500 miles and no noticable chain stretch . My son did his first squirt lube and he made climbs he normally could not do . I also feel the one by 10 speed drive has less resistance than the 12 speed and using a smaller chainring at 28:tooth gets me most if not all those steep climbs with the 11/46 cog . The chain line with that bigger cog creates more side pull creating more resistance. . For me I don't loose any top end speed from a 32 ring 12 speed to a 28 ring 10 speed but the speed feels more efficient with a lesser quality drive train over the 12

Keep wondering if you should take a second chain with you and swap mid race. If it really is 10W-15W in a "dirty race", then 1 minute to swap a chain (with practice) would probably be well worth it in a multi hour race.

Highly enlightening as always! Thanks. But the real star of the show was that Campagnolo kitted bike in the background! Nice!

I can understand putting lube on your chain in a gravel race, however as an avid Squirt user... you aren't allowing it to dry before riding. Then of course, you have a dirty chain...not sure there is a true answer there. For some, if you are riding an older bike say 8speed through a 10 speed, chain is wider and I feel as though the Squirt does indeed penetrate the chain. I've tested this since 2012, on both road and mtn bikes, and even went as far as using Squirt only on my fatbike without cleaning the chain...so I went through not only dirt,mud snow, water but also road salt. I had an incredible luck.The difference is always in a chain, and one that is a bit narrower...11/12 speed, it doesn't work quite as well.

REX (chain lube) Mentioned! GO Finland!

I totally agree that 1X system are NOT efficient. I still run 2X10 with 11-36 cassette on my MTB. Re chain lube, I use XC ski wax that is fluoronated + Molybdenum, Graphite, Gallium content. The bulk material is straight paraffin & designed to be applied hot for penetration & bonding. The fluoro is designed to repel dirt & water since it's very hydrophobic. The new liquid waxes are amazing, ceramic-superfast drying & easy to apply...

Yes someone said it !! I hate 11 and 10 tooth cogs , I have always felt the difference and those small cogs make your chain wear faster !!!!

Useful insights. Got a bit vague and subjective around the ‘I don’t like 1x’ section. I’ve only ever ridden 1x for my road riding, I think it’s ace.

Very Cool! I made an EASY how to video on waxing bike chains. I wax all my chains, including my trainer! Now I know it wasn't for nothing! I do, however, prefer my 1x drivetrain on my gravel bike. Love the video, keep it up!

I disagree with you both on 1x for MTB. I've been 1x12 for about 2 years now, I still find it frustrating not being able to get the right gear, even after converting my now 10yo trail bike across to 1x12 to be the same as my new XC bike. My knees much prefer 2x10. The upside is a less complex set of controls, meaning instead of having to deal with brakes, suspension lockout, dropper post and gears with the left hand, it's one less thing to make my thumb sore on a long ride.

3:30 And metal expands when heated aiding in wax penetrating into those crevices of the links.

That was fantastic. Great discussion.

Another great video with Josh!!!

These have been super interesting. Great work!

So Squirt wax works better above 80°F (27°C). Could you pre-heat the wax in the bottle to lets say 104°F (40°C) and apply the wax? Love these talks, very informative! keep it up!

Thank you very much for this informative video! One question, a friend of mine also uses hot wax on the cassette and the pulleys. Have you ever heard of anyone doing this? I find the idea of putting the pulley bearing in the wax bath a bit strange.

Love the Video. What came to my mind is how about dropping the bottle of SQUIRT lube in warm water before use (as Josh says above 80° F) That should get the wax on the spot or am i thinking this wrong?

Dylan, I don't know how this one slipped through -- but just now saw it. I'm wondering if the best way to ensure you have a chain lubricated all the way inside and dirt free is to simply install a new chain during race week and leave the factory lube on (and in) it. In fact, I think this may make a lot of economical sense if your chain is getting close to max stretch. Thoughts?

This super secret lubricant is FAAAR TO EXPENSIVE! I would never pay such amount of money for it! Go to the dollar store and buy two big wax candles for 1 dollar each plus a bottle of paraffin lamp oil for 5 bucks and a rice cooker at Walmart for 10 bucks, mix the wax from the two candles with the paraffin lamp pile until you get a kind of cream in the rice cooker and that is it! You just got a pot full of the best lubricant for bike chain ever for a few bucks and tou will be able to lubricator your chain with this formula for yeas literally! I do that and I never ever needed to replace my chain neither any part of my drive train before it was time to sell my bike and get a new one!

These have been a great listen!!!

Hey guys how ya doing. I live and clean my chain every day with wd40. This blasts out the dirt which last I've heard has poor lubrication qualities. WD40 is a poor lubrication but lasts great for a day. I used to run a 42 54 front 13 21 rear geared straight side plate chain when skill in shifting mattered. Those old straight cut gears lasted at least 10,000 miles probably alot more. Didn't stop me from chasing the big trucks into town on the highway which is faster than cars and trucks nowadays. WD40 just might flush those ceramic bearings if you flush them every yes every ride. I do like waxed chains for winter riding and your products look awesome.

I love 1x for commute and cross, I dont need to shift chain rings. I use a road inner ring at 38

Love that the tour was won with 1x and 10t cog lol this dude must’ve been screaming in his pillow

I had a chance to see the hpva world record attempts in battle mnt nv. mostly interested in the bikes. they have very scientific data on many aspects of these topics. every question I had was quickly answered by passionate knowledgeable people. in a nut shell world record bikes (stream liners) weight/efficient drive train had a very little gain compared to aero dynamics. "the shirt zipped and unzipped " perfect example.

Built my hard tail XC recently as a 2X full XTR. I'm covered in any situation.

ive got 1000km with smoove in summer, without noise, that was a good statistic. Racers should care about any watt saved, to every one else, just ride and change stuff when it dont work :) Cheers.