If you'd like to skip over the discussion portion, go to <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="439">7:19</a> :)

Really appreciate your comments on the perception of TikTok books. Although KZfaq is still my main place to create content, I’ve been posting on booktok for a couple years now, and the adult scifi/fantasy community is huge! They’ve read all the booktube staples that we love here but also many underrated and indie published sff. It’s a great community 🥰

Well, i am new to fantasy genre. I'm 64. I would go into B&N and see tables of BookTok books, a whole table of an author who i really don't like. And tables of "Chick Lit, Summer Beach Reads, etc" I got really tired of all that. Been there, done that. I picked up Fantasy, and i was hooked. And found great KZfaq channels, like Elliot's. I have been reading a ton of her recommendations. Thank you, Elliot! 😊

Mistborn and Way Of Kings? Those are now booktok books? Omg you learn something new each day. All in all, it's great leverage for Sanderson for those adaptations lol.

I had no idea sword of Kaigen was considered a booktok book lol 😱

Not magical compainions, but Shady Hollow by Juneau Black is a cozy mystery, but instead of people, they are all forest animals 😊

As someone who lives in a country where TikTok is banned, I find this whole perception thing very funny

I’m glad you’re having a discussion around the biases around booktok and its readers! Ultimately, there’s a lot of misogyny wrapped up in the way booktube talks about booktok. All it is, is another space to talk about books, and booktube is largely very resistant to admitting that it’s not very different from here. I’ll also argue that booktok generally reads more diversely and has more elaborate discussions around social issues. They call out racist authors, they call out non-inclusive feminism, they get deeply involved in humanitarian movements and don’t try to coddle privileged people who may be made uncomfortable by those things. And I have huge respect for that. So when people reduce the entirety of booktok to vapid women who just wanna read smut, that’s not only a misogynistic implication on its own, but it devalues the community that’s developed. Additionally, let’s look at those communities that do exist. Yes, there is a dark romance and large romance community. It is in no way even close to the full extent of booktok, but it is big. This is a good thing. This exists because of how non-inclusive other spaces can be. They gather there because places like booktube DO turn up their noses at romance, smut, and people who are unafraid to admit that’s their goal when reading. There isn’t anything wrong with that. There’s also this assumption that people who read things like that and people who read Sanderson can’t be the same people? When that’s entirely not true? As though people would only ever read straight up romance by choice because they can’t comprehend anything more complex? And that’s deeply misogynistic, a lot of the bias is rooted in a mass distrust of women’s opinion, and I’m often even hearing these attitudes from people who haven’t even read so-called “booktok” books. Disclaimer, I’m generalizing here while also understanding that this doesn’t apply to everyone by a long shot. I just don’t see that many people talking about booktok and why it exists the way it does very respectfully. It’s crazy too because booktok has plenty of toxicity, I won’t act like it doesn’t, but it doesn’t talk about other platforms like this, which makes booktube and book twitter look mostly jealous? As someone who occupies all of these spaces, I just wish we could stop having the same discussions about the wrong things (“booktok = bad and here’s why” except it’s a whole 40 min video from someone who didn’t do any research and is just riffing their frustrations) and try to be more inclusive. I don’t think people even realize how mean they sound sometimes. I’m not asking like sci-fi authors to become romance people; I’m just suggesting that maybe we stop talking about booktok and the people who occupy it in this way, because it isn’t fair, and it’s mostly a one-sided battle that the other side didn’t even choose to be in. So thank you for this! I love your content and I feel like you’re one of the handful of creators here on booktube who does a great job of reexamining your involvement and experimenting and trying new things, or even just trying to understand them through an empathetic and analytical eye. Thank you!

Whoa this is a different type of Elliot content and i am HERE for it

There's a few Booktok girls who gush about Sanderson in their reels and then gush about Dark Romance, Fantasy Romance, BL, some Robin Hobb in between, they're all over the place... but they have read most of Sanderson's books... and every single spicy dark fairy romance out there as well (I don't like spicy books so I filter the romance out)

I am not sure why we associate popular as bad?

It may be discussed more in future videos, but I really feel like we can't ignore the misogynistic undertones to the distaste for "booktok books". In the video, it was said as having an image of "that type of reader", but honestly speaking, most people, especially people who turn their nose up at booktok books, picture a young woman (teens, 20s, 30s) who follows trends, doesn't come across as particularly intellectual, and reads romance centered books. How much of that "nose turning up" stems from misogyny related to this image?? Some people can't imagine "that kind of reader" may also be interested in The Way of Kings and thus make it a "booktok book". Some people can't image "that kind of reader" could recognize a book of substance and make it popular. And what about everyone on booktok that doesn't fit that description? Why are we erase them? As Elliot said, the reading community should be welcoming to all, regardless of their chosen books. If a fantasy reader trashes another for liking ACOTAR and says they should read "something better", like Brandon Sanderson, that person isn't going to come out of that negative and rude interaction dying to explore Sanderson's work. They're going to associate it with jerks and stay away!

Fourth Wings writing style was my exact issue with When The Moon Hatched. All. These. Sentences.

Love the video. And just want to mention, your hair looks great today. :) I always enjoy seeing what you do with it.

I think part of the negative rep booktok gets is partially due to how unavoidable a very certain corner of it is made out to seem. I can't access most bookish areas (my library catalogue, online store fronts, Goodreads, the bookstore, and the bus on one memorable occasion) without having the contemporary romance/romantasy/spicy hits of the season being displayed front and centre. So I think part of it is the overexposure (Hana's Dark Spicy Books and How Purity Culture Took Over Booktok video was a really good look at this). The other is that I think for most people on booktok this is maybe the first time they've really been consumed by the hobby, and they're exploring it and having fun (as they should!) but that leaves a certain disconnect between this newer subgroup of readers, and people who've been doing it for longer, and who have a different set of criteria for what makes a book engaging to them. It's less "this set of readers are lesser" and more that we have a certain corner of booktok that isn't representative of readers as a whole overshadowing all the other corners.

Omgg loved this video also could u do a video where u could recommend books similar to the famous booktook books😊

Great video! Thank you!

I learned about sword of kaigen recently from you and a few other creators I follow so I’m gonna check it out for sure!! This is an interesting and unusual video from you!!

I’m not surprised about any of the books you mentioned! When I think of BookTok, I think of anyone sharing about books on TikTok. There’s corners for all genres of TT! Your FYP is in your control (mostly) based on the content you consume.

The Kindred Saga is a fantasy book that happens to have a romance. The first is Spark of the Everflame by Penn Cole

I would have thought Tress or Yumi would be on the list before Way of Kings

Acotar spoiler- My thing with Book is how can the love between Fey & Tamlin be strong& true enough to break a crush but not in the 2nd book. I had the romance change. Why build up Tamlin just to change it to the guy that drugged her under the mountain & pimped her out to piss off Tamlin... while claiming Rhys knew she was his mate at the fire but pimps her out. Cute. Lol. Wtf.

Another great video. Love the new hair style

As far as fantasy romance that balances plot really well with the romance, Freya Marske's The Last Binding trilogy is in the sweet spot! I was totally in it for the plot, but the romances are very well done and definitely an important aspect. Very spicy, but if that's not a dealbreaker, it ticks all the boxes!

I recently tried a SJM book, and I didn't hate it. It read to me like a less good Sanderson. The prose was just a bit more clunky, the characters were a bit thinner, but there was an attempt to build out an interesting world that felt complex with an interesting magic element, but she didn't seem to know quite how to do those pieces, and there were a lot of parts that were just "this magic exists now because the plot demands it." I think if I had come to her at 16 rather than as an adult, I would have connected to it more.

I'm so here for what you said at the beginning of the video, looking down on people who "don't read the right kind of books" is one of my least favourite behaviours in any bookish community. I use tiktok and see booktok stuff (among other things) and I get good recommendations specific to my taste. Most of them are not what many people think of when they say booktok books. But that's kinda the problem, many people who hate on booktok, aren't on it and it feels some people just jump on the booktok hate bandwagon for content. I think discussing the booktok phenomenon is interesting and there are good video essays on the topic. But making fun of it is just unnecessary. And a little weird when many booktok books are former or even currently very popular on Booktok.

This was eye-opening. I read 6 of the books mentioned in this video. I loved 4 of them while you have them in Nah/Why. The 5th I loved is in your Yeah rank and the one that I would have ranked lowest is in your Yes. And then 2 books I DNFd are in your Yeah/Yes. I have to go think about this. 🤔 P.S. I don't use TikTok and I'm over 50 so I assume I'm older than the average BookTok viewer.

Booktube was once labeled as girls who read their silly YA books with no substance and I don’t like that a lot of booktubers are doing the same thing to booktok and I hate when booktubers look down on booktokers. Their hatred towards booktok is unwarranted and for someone who thinks they have a better taste, they sure aren’t acting like one. + they seem to forget that a LOT of booktokers are young creators and most of us liked reading “cringey” or “tropey” books at that time.

You summed up so well how I felt about Fourth Wing! I want more of it but just the dragons please!!!

Totally on the same page with you about House in the Cerulean Sea. The more I thought about it, the more it didn't work for me, and I prefer books that you can linger and comb over and find something better there.

I thought I was crazy when I got recommended Fourth Wing and thought it was middle-school grade writing with smutty edge slathered on top of Eragon while seeing all the amazing reviews it got. I felt like I had just jumped in a parallel dimension or something.

I am not on Booktok but I usually borrow books from Libby based on popularity (which might or might not be because of Booktok). One book I was very surprised about was The Shadows Between Us. I had similar feelings as you did, I might have enjoyed it a little more. I had no idea it was a Booktok book though. 😅 Although after reading it, that doesn't surprise me.

Hey, Elle! I've been missing your videos; my head's been buried so deep in code that my Black a$$ being crushed to diamond😳 Anyway, just checking in to say that I think it's great that your channel has grown so much, and it's fantastic to see that you're still going strong. I'll be back to show my support after I can dig myself out. Who knows... maybe I'll get around to actually reading--ick--Scythe? 😅 Keep up the greatness😁

I have a few of these on my TBR, but have only read ACOTAR so far. I am on the last book, Silver Flame (my wife, sister in law, and I have been reading them together), and I did really enjoy books 2 and 3, but if I had judged the series on the first book and not made the commitment to read it with my family I never would have made it to book 2. I didn't hate book 1, but I felt like I was wasting time I could have spent reading something great.

I just recently finished Funny Story from Emily Henry (my first book from her) and I really loved it.

Glad you liked Babel-I just picked it up not knowing much about it and was worried it’s secretly awful

I find all romances are fantasies. Just not high fantasies.

I found out about Brandon Sanderson & the cosmere on tiktok! Currently ~300 pgs out from finishing The Way of Kings for the first time :)

I wasn’t the biggest fan of ACOTAR but the discussions online was what made me keep reading the other books. I wanted to know why it had everyone in a chokehold…So anyway, I ended up reading the whole Maasverse and have absolutely no regrets 😂. Can they be dumb at times? Sure. But I like the worlds and the characters.

Sword of Kaigen surprised me, but knowing how popular The Way of Kings and Mistborn are just in general, I'm not surprised its gained popularity on booktok where there are SO many different kinds of readers; people who read fantasy, people who read romance, those who read romantasy, historical fiction, literary fiction, etc. I've passed by many different readers who post stuff on tiktok, but a lot of the people who have a lot of views and followers tend to be spicy-romance/dark-romance/romantasy lovers. I have a lot of thoughts on why, and its very fascinating, and in some ways, a bit sad. But yeah, this was a great video, thanks for talking about it!

Soooo many people have recommended ACOTAR to me, so i tried it. Im more like you as in i want a better balance. Ididnt research it and i didnt ask my friends the genre, THEY said it was fantasy, so i was really excited tocstart something new. Its more romance heavy than i wanted it tocbe, amd the first half of the book was slow, ididnt enjoy the character or the prose, but as thinfs picked up, the prose even got better... Its like as soon as she brought the steam on, her qriting itseof blossomed. Since its not a genre i usually read, im tryong to giventhe series a chance. Currently in the middle of the second book of the ACOTAR series, but im feeling i need to supplement my desire for a more traditional fantasy story.

hey Elliot . I love your new hair style.

For fantasy romance recs, I'd recommend the Saints of Steel series! I've only read the first 2, but the world-building and romance story go hand in hand very well. Emily Wilde's Encyclopedia of Faeries is also a good fantasy with a touch of romance.

Elliot, have you read the Jessica Day George “Princess of the Midnight Ball” trilogy?

A few years back I watched an Elliot video regarding fantasy books and there was a book about a blood tree that was dying and there were some elves etc. I cannot find what was the name of the book. Can someone help.

ACOTAR series is progressively smutty fae (which I love btw) but I disagree with TOG series. The beginning was meh. But the last 3 books in that series I think about daily.

Have you read Daughter of No Worlds yet? I think that would be your type of Romantasy where the world building and larger plot play a larger role in the story.

I have the same exact opinion on The Cruel Prince trilogy!

I was ready to throw my hat if throne of glass got ranked below acotar, even though yes I know this is personal opinion 😅 I’m satisfied to see them ranked on the same level and feel like it’s fair, even though I love throne of glass way more than acotar I can also acknowledge that there’s much better stuff out there I’m ready to explore and leave both those series behind :)

I had to share that just when I started choking on a bite of pancake (no joke), you mentioned you were going to talk about Yellowface. 😂 Obviously, I am okay now. 😊 Thank you for the video.

I thought that both Sword of Kaigen and Blood over Bright Haven were picked up by a traditional publisher? I know that Indigo (Canadian chain bookstore) has like an exclusive edition of Sword of Kaigen which I have. I know that Blood over Bright Haven releases traditionally later this year (July, I believe?)

oh, where is your community tab?

I'm a bit shocked I've actually read 7 of these (Sanderson, Kuang, Klune, Wang, Baldree). Interesting stuff.

If you want fantasy with romance i loved raymond e feist and janny wurts - daughter of the empire. A mix of feudal japan and the magician world. Mainly epic political story with minimal magic but it has a sprinkle of romance that feels real. I havent read any more than the first magician book but didnt stop me from enjoying this. Could be one to try.

I have no real perception of booktok as I don’t frequent the platform. However based in KZfaq videos I do think there is a conflation of booktok with romance. And romance being crapped on is an age old issue. We have just modernized it to a new tech platform. And romance being the best selling genre in North America - it would make sense that on average those book pop up more.

I agree with you on Song of Achilles. It was meh for me due to Achilles personality. Achilles had no growth or attributes I found sympathetic. I just couldn’t click with it.

The perception about Booktok depends on the content you watch. My Booktok algorithm only shows me Fantasy booktokers and a few Fantasy Romance ones. On KZfaq I pretty much watch 50/50. So in my case the perception about Booktok being mostly romance leaning doesn't apply.

The Shadows between Us was so fun. Ridiculous and fun and it's like reading about bad people doing bad things.

The only reason I will keep up with the Fourth Wing series is for the dragons. I don't care about the humans at all I just want to know the story of the dragons

So glad to hear Six of Crows is good because i really liked the tv series

Out of this selection of BookTok books, I’ve only read two (Cruel Prince trilogy which isn’t my favorite Holly Black, but I did enjoy it, and Six of Crows duology, which is supposed to have a third at some point) and tried to read Babel but I had to dnf. But SoC is one of the things I read last year that was so bad, imo, and I still think about it from time to time. Hated it, but the ending made me intrigued enough to read Crooked Kingdom… which was even worse.

I didn’t realize it was unpopular to like Yellowface more than Babel, because that’s my opinion too 😋 I was thoroughly captivated by Yellowface and couldn’t put it down. I really liked Babel too but not *as much as* Yellowface

If you want a great book series you should check out Lockwood and Co by Jonathan Stroud.

Girl you should continue acotar then. I found that the next two books were much more balanced. I mean the second one has like 1 and a half sex scenes in almost 700 pages

I also REALLY hated Achilles! I think some of it is intentional but I don't think we're supposed to loathe him lol. I read Circe and loved it. On the whole I prefer it as a book, but not being so frustrated with a major character helped.

My comment didn’t show up :( adding a new one here for the algo ❤️ always love ur content

I despise ACOTAR because I was told it was one of the best things fantasy had to offer. My hopes for it were waaaay high. I found everything about it very basic and all characters are annoying. Then SJM fans told me that the second book was the best thing ever. I push through it and it was slightly more interesting BUT still so effing boring and basic. I also read the third book and when they spent half the book waiting for a meeting... I knew I couldn't stand anothrt SJM book ever again. Her writing is so bad and her stories lack any nuance or complexity. I completely agree with you regarding A Song of Achilles. Achilles was unbearable. Great writing but everything else was a disappointment 😢

ngl i definitely have a biased against booktok books now. I didn't at first, I was originally really excited that there seemed to be some cooler romance-leaning stories. But so far all the "romantasy" style books people raved about and told me I NEEDED to read seem written for illiterates easily taken in by mediocre pronography, or books that are mostly written for people who listen to books, and don't actually like reading them (I like audio books btw, they're amazing for commutes, or when my eyes are hurting - the curse of reading too much in my younger years lol. BUT there is a certain selection of poorly written books that really rely on a narrator's skill to give them any emotion or uniqueness. THESE books are terrible and seem to get really popular with younger social-media goers, and I'm so tired of them getting recommended to me all the time. T_T ). I'm working on getting over that bias, because you're right, there's a few books popping up that don't fit into the same "author turned their reylo fanfic into a story for easy money," and I don't think it's really fair I shove them all into that category at first glance lmao.

I'm not on tiktok, but I do see some of the content as KZfaq shorts. If I see a "Booktok made me buy it!" tag attached to a book in a bookshop or online, I tend to assume it's either YA or new adult, and probably not aimed at me. I also tend to assume that if the publisher is relying on that tag to sell the book, then either the plot, the writing, or both will not be the strongest 🤷‍♀️. I was surprised to see some older high fantasy and classical retellings mixed in with the YA, contemporary romance and romantasy I was expecting. Edit: I completely agree about Achilles in Song of Achilles - I know that canonically he's a bit of a shit, but I was somehow vainly hoping he'd be a bit less of a total dickhead in this 😂. I respect Madeline Miller for sticking with the source material, and I love her writing, but at the same time, I enjoyed this book much less than Circe.

100% agree with the Nah tier, although I also would've added Legends & Lattes to Nah as well. I agree with most of the rankings actually. But Divine Rivals does deserve to be in the top tier. 😄

❤📚📚♥️

On booktok, as on booktube, bookstagram, ecc. you simply have to find your type of content creators. I tend to read mostly fantasy, thrillers and historical fiction therefore I look for creators who read the same genres. I know I won't find anything in common with someone who mainly reads horrors, sci-fi, contemporary romance, ecc. and it's up to me to find my corner of the bookish internet.

Sticker help- use your hair dryer on low & slow peel

I think internet spaces in general elevate things that align with fandoms. Like there’s no dialed-in Ann Patchett fandom. I also think it’s going to skew young because that’s just who’s online, and because tiktok is actually hostile to people over 30. Ugh I hate Song Of Achilles. An author who changes Achilles manner of death is missing the point. And humanizing Achilles is also a misstep; he’s not human. In this book he’s just a guy named Achilles. Andddd jeez Babel lol. It felt like being lectured by a 21-year-old at a house party about stuff I already agree with. And it just came off like Kuang thought she had something to say to older academics and she’s just not old or experienced enough yet. Mostly she needs to sit down until she admits that Babel contains translation errors.

I'm so glad you disliked Fourthwing. I would have doubted every review henceforth, had you chosen to up this book lol. I couldn't finish this book.. it was a strong DNF and I almost never do that. The hype on this book is Crazy..

Does Elliot use Tik Tok?

Achilles was still sort of a bad guy in the Greek myth.

I could not even finish Sword of Kaigan. I don't understand what is good about it? The world makes no sense, the characters are mostly incredibly dumb. The only redeeming character is the mother, even though her choices makes no sense. DNF. On the other hand Babel is top notch.

the first ACOTAR is definitely NOT the book you should judge the series for! If you haven't, pleaaaase read the next two books. especially the third is so political and action packed. I wish I could spoil you but.. Well.. Tamlin is ..mmhh.. we don't like him lets put it that way.

I will never read a TJ Klune book. He used indigenous trauma as an aesthetic, removing the people from their own stories. :\

why don't YOU write "That" book!!!?🤨

I look at "BookTok" the same way as I looked at every software in the late 90s label slapping "Y2K Compatible!"