The creator is rolling in his bed at night knowing someones dares to say anything other than "best mod ever made by any human being"

This is nothing compared to the monstrosity that the warp parties are One thing to mention, plants don't have to be balanced by use rate. Some plants are only good in niche situations and that's totally fine. Eclise tries to compensate that by making lots of niche levels which gets annoying at some point, because you are forced to pick specific plants instead of choosing the niche ones on your own will.

I literally had to consult the wiki to beat levels in Eclise because I just had absolutely no idea what to do.

The sad thing is, I feel the original PvZ2 did this better. It first have a conveyer level with the new plant in the selection pool, then it would be a required pick for the next one, so you could see how it would go with your current strategy. Maybe some other levels were thrown in, but that was the basic setup. Meanwhile, zombies were usually introduced by themselves, or when the player just got the plant that counters them. Plus, the dialogue between Dave and Penny before a level starts informed you about the Plant/Zombie you were about to encounter. That feels much better designed than what’s going on here.

I wish that Eclise eventually realises on how to introduce plants like PvZ1 instead of making an entire level based around this one plant and one plant only.

In Eclise, I always end up with one or two sunproducers, one singular "turret" and then just stall and instakills.

Maybe an Eclise tier list should be a graph with two spectrums: How situationally a plant is used, and how well it excells in those situations.

Dusk used to deal 3x3 splash damage, but it got reworked and now it can't counter ferrets

I haven't played eclise alpha(the last version I played was eclise beta 1.9), but man, the game seemed to have been redesigned for the worse(like from not bothering with intros to blundering intros of plants & zombies), with mint system and other downgrades.

Playing Eclise, I just wanted something like PVZ1 with more challenge. At a certain point of knowledge the original could be beaten with both eyes closed. I wanted more challenge, more plants to fiddle with, something to engage me. For the most part, Eclise did that. A lot of its early levels were challenging but not impossible to complete. A few times I cheated and used a video, which is vindictive of what soon came. As my casual friend put it: "It just seems like the game spams you with a ton of annoying zombies and you just have to pray." Garg spam, wizard spam, octo spam, all memories from my brain via the mod. I think, like you say in the video, it would be great idea if levels were put as challenges. Where the obvious answer is to use the plant you just unlocked, but it isn't your only answer. With enough knowledge of the game and skill in your strategy, you could make your own solution. Lastly if anyone seeing this has mod suggestions like what I'm after (a more challenging typical pvz experience), please let me know in a reply. Balance is of no concern to me

Thank you, someone who isn't just worshipping Eclise blindly!

Imagine locking the other plants tiering system considering that they are already hard to upgrade due to the lack of coins early game

Alpha 4 just came out and from the looks of it, it sucks. So far, I've been liking the first 3 worlds of Eclise Alpha, but now I look at this, I feel like I should just mod this mod. They also removed training room and some costumes :>

The creator of this mod made another mod called Grind Thousand aka GT000. This mod has a lot of the same problems as eclise, not properly teaching the player about new mechanics, and being incredibly unbalanced. Also you don't unlock plants from beating levels. You have to grind coins to unlock nearly any of the plants with the exception of the plants you get from the start. most of the plants cost way too much son, or are incredibly difficult to get. For example: winter melon costs 700 sun in a 25 sun meta. This means you have to collect 28 sun just for one plant that was nerfed

Eclise was too difficult for me. The reason I loved playing Reflourished is because I was able to beat most levels using my favourite plant lightning reed, and comboing with some stalls, some explosives, or magnet shroom. They also give an abundant amount of coins so you could just destroy most zombies instantly, it may have not taught me to strategize but it was really fun.

Would you consider levels with extra win conditions to be minigames, or challenges? I feel like sos, flowers, and mold colonies are challenges. Whereas last stand is more like a minigame

Eclise's community has to be one of the most pretentious and toxic gaming communities I've ever set foot in. Worse than the Terraria Calamity mod. I left a long time ago but I remember the environment in that server was awful; if it wasn't just praise for the mod, it was almost certain to be just negative. They were really hostile to critics and incredibly impatient with newcomers. I remember a mod complaining about having to guide new players through the process of modding their game like... *bro you're a moderator for a modding community this is what you signed up to do.* DT himself personally banned me because I said "Dick Tree" lmao And you know, I really liked the Eclise mod at first. Once I figured out how to mod the game and started playing, I thought it was very fun and tough, but the game quickly got too complicated for its own good. I think part of their design philosophy was to make every plant present in vanilla reworked to be usable, and to give all of those plants three tiers to work with, which acts to the mod's detriment. The tiering system also communicates the wrong idea; you have to purchase additional tiers and those are represented with bronze, silver, and gold, which communicates that higher tiers are objectively better, which is not the case. I quit about halfway through on a conveyor belt level that required perfect execution and favorable RNG to complete; not fun game design. TL;DR 1. GP2 and his community need to learn to lighten up, be nice, and be more open to criticism 2. Quantity =/= Quality 3. Difficulty doesn't automatically make your game fun. You need to design with fun in mind first, not difficulty

I feel as if GP2 doesn't understand why some plants are underused. Take Parsnip for example. (From Beta 1.8) I never had to use Parsnip because there were better alternatives for a stationary offensive plant that takes over a minute to recharge. Sure, its rush is much stronger than Guac's but it shouldn't be this hard to use. I may have poorly explained this. Like you said, Eclise tries to introduce too much. And even in Beta, I feel as if the introduction levels sometimes mix in with the challenges and minigame levels, which makes it varied, but somewhat inconsistent and jumbled. This is from somewhat who likes beta. I want to make a mod in the future that uses Eclise's ideas (such as world structure and some plant balancing) but without the pitfalls Eclise falls into like its barrier of entry and questionable level design. I know there are better examples from other mods like Altverz but aside from that are there other mods I should try?

looking back on it, when i was answering the forum the pirate seas level twenty second flashback, (im pretty sure its 14-7) was incredibly confusing for me and literally impossible without toadstool. and gp2 has a real problem with introducing plants like snapdragon, E berry and others in levels where the player is better off simply not using them. i understand that you want to introduce a new plant to the player, but the design of these levels simply hinder their abilty to shine in certain situations where in other levels they would be really valuable.

I use Garlic a lot in PvZ1. It's great for certain levels! But not in PvZ2. Not only is it WORSE FOR NO REASON, but the game isn't even made for it.

Eclise for some reason tends to be quite bs in terms of teaching new players who got that mod and are struggling so much in so many regards it feels like each and every single level you have to use that one specific strategy. Is it a good mod.... I would say Not really? I think if new players introduced to pvz2 is to play an older patch like the 5.0.0 patch with an edited pp.dat file to unlock all premium plants but not gemium. And learn the core mechanics first. Eclise in general now is basically only playble if you're a pvz2 veteran who knows what and each zombie does.

I've been playing through the alpha myself recently and here's my take: It's poor for beginners but it's a nice streamlined experience for longtime players. Very quickly I've had to use what I learned from older beta playthroughs and very few of the levels have felt boring or free. However, the difficulty spikes are still somewhat there and the gimmicks are introduced with little context at full power immediately. I think it's quite fun but if anyone is trying to get into it, play the beta.

Im kinda sleepy so im like "man wtf is he saying" half the time. This shit wild

This was a pretty good video, and I agree with most of the points made, but I do have one mild complaint - With the highest due respect, I think you really oughta slow down your talking speed. That, or add subtitles. There were a couple of times where I could not understand a lick of what you said.

Some of the Levels are so ridiculously difficult that i just look up how other people beat it and mimic their set up, i dont wanna sit on one level for over an hour trying various different plants and strategies

pvz 2 alpha eclise have problems with plants and levels more than beta in my opinion. Level that dusk lobber was introduced i did not use it. I thought it was so trash i mean it cannot kill weasel without it getting over run. Splash and bonk choy comes in and does it job way better. Some levels need to be removed or change make the player to have better time and learning. Name some is ice block farm level, last stand far future invincible tile level, punk jam. Great video you did creeps and hope things improve on the mod and not go to more into the abyss than it is. Have good day people reading this

Thank goodness I stuck with Beta and never looked back.

"bug tiles aren't common in the main game" i can't agree more, considering that until you said that i didn't know they were PART of the base game

I wanted to try the Alpha Version but was told by others in the discord that the changes weren't good. I think that they were right and I'll stick to beta for now

Solution: Introduces Starfruit and Repeater at later part of thr Introduction

Grats on 1000

I feel like Eclise relies on PVZ2 existing and expecting the player to know how plants work in that game too much. I had trouble in Pirate Seas with seagulls because I forgot how I could counter them properly.

I actually enjoyed eclise alpha a lot Since you actually have to consider the layout of most levels and pick plants accordingly, instead of using the same team over and over, which gets boring The difficulty for me was just right, and even most of the S levels were fairly fun That said, some broken plant teams work for most levels, so it's only like 30% of levels where you do have to tailor your teams to counter them Also I didn't actually realise the levels after unlocking a plant encourage you to use them, i just used whatever i thought was appropriate

There were a lot of really bad new levels added in alpha (12-4) that were so luck dependent or insanely difficult that it stopped being fun. The level with the point goal was a much better intro to both parsnip and impporter than the actual intros

Wouldn’t the “partial locked and loaded” restriction solve the issue with the plant’s introductions? Lock and load the plant they’re meant to learn to use, and then let them make the rest of their deck around it. This’ll make the whole “design around recent plants” work better, won’t it?

ngl the overabundance of introductions kinda kills the mod for me i really cannot think of a single adventure level that wasn't intended to be an introduction to something other than like X-10s yes introductions can be good but not when the entire mod is comprised of them

Pretty well made video. I'm not too huge within the PVZ Community, watch the videos, and love the games, and I have been looking into playing a PVZ2 mod that feels like PVZ again. But yeah, I could see why this mod is very buggy and ambitious, it's a mod that doesn't emulate the original but test more expert player's abilities, mostly, player's who're used to the mechanics, plants and stages of PVZ2 and mixes it up for them. And I vaguely remember either you or someone else mentioning about some levels just, not being levels at all and just gauntelets of spam, for example nothing but garg's being spammed so you just have to pray and attack. But eitherway, really well made video. 👏gg

ECLISE is just hard to approach for me its hard to understand which strategies I should be using and how the hell I’m supposed to use the tiering system effectively. Also the introduction of Mints is TERRIBLE I was almost burnt on PvZ2 mods as a whole since it was the first one I played

I remember how i quit at pirate seas. I felt like there are some things in there that i don't understand enough to do by myself

As a player if your forced to use something you Hate that you have to. People love being creative but if your creativity is stomped cause you have to use this on this stage will hamper that

As someone who's only playthrough of alpha was alpha 2 I recall alpha 2 having a lot of horribly difficult levels in general. I was a casual player and I remember 10-5 wasn't fun even tho i used red. A lot of intros were not fun and I most importantly I did not recall learn anything except rushing a defense and cold snap is broken. Also I thought 13-9 when I saw it was a demonstration of what happens when a sheeped plant is ontop of a grave.

Is this an epic breakdown of modded level design?! Ohhh, lemme see!

With all the respect to Eclise, Reflourished is the best mod literally the PVZ2 we deserved

Another example: 14-2 (i think): Parrot Patrols. Try it without toad. I dare you. Edit: It's not Parrot patrols it's pelican delegant

I saw 200 sun repeater placed as bottom tier and had to pause the video to take a quick lie down there

l think Dusk was introduced too early! It only does it's job well as a powered tier 3, but Moonflower and ShadowLeaf are introduced too later on, and the coins for tiering is far from being collected.

i downloaded eclise because i wanted do see is it really that good. and it was looking nice... for 5 minutes it was ancient egypt level 3 and it was fucking hard like it was a final level of some kind then i saw that there's a file called easy and i replaced the original file and it finally felt like pvz not like some kind of pain generator made for masochists

im really sorry about this could you add captions? im not very adept in english and it’s hard for me personally to make sense of what you’re saying

I guess I must be the exception then, because I DO gravitate towards new plants. Of course, I only use them for a few levels if they are bad and I use them a lot if they are good.

This will be extremely spicy

eclise Is the hello neighbor of pvz 2

7:00 Escape Root (from a secret level) with the Spore Shroom are decent there. Together with red stinger. And imitated ice letuce.

Whaaaaat?!)! Criticism? To anything related to eclise? Time for a ban

I kept spamming rotobaga for most levels since that's what works a lot of the time where a lot zombies appear in the later portion of the level

People think its great, it isnt, its just we have nothing to compared it too, at its core its better than the org pvz2, but in practice, its shittier than even a fanmade game cause it assumes you should know all of this by now, thats the main problem i have with the game and something the dev doesnt recognize and wont, you make a mod for everyone, not veterans, there are people who dont even know how to utilize moonflowers buff out there too, this mod is for the dev, not for the people he sell it to, and thats stupid

i worked my way through all of eclise during the last school year and it took me all of april and may to beat the Alpha levels. I dont remember exactly what levels I got stuck on but it was definitely the later levels of Dark Ages 2 and the middle of Pirate Seas 2. It felt good beating the mod in the end but it was still way more artificially challenging than a plants vs zombies should ever be, on par with those chinese plants vs zombies 1 mods. I've found that other mods like Shallow and Altverze handle challenge way better than eclise ever did

remember guys, there is no reason to play eclise now that reflourished is out :3

I was thinking of this video while steamrolling through the stunion tutorial level(s) with my normal strategy that didn't incorporate stunion

15:26. Yes, but have you played Night Jurrasic March-20 in beta. It has an entire portion of the level used for spamming gargs.

istg i cringe from imagining tryhards telling people "skill issue" when they get lost in this game

Everyone playing reflorished now haha.

pvz 2: thanks for the fast forward button, this is really cool! eclise: oh god theres too many-a them wheres the "slow down" button!!!?!?

i always knew Eclise was overrated and also far too balanced (believe it or not thats a thing) so im glad this was addressed

the virgin eclise mod vs. the chad vanilla pvz2 vs. the gigachad reflourished mod

I used to play eclise mod, but i quit it after some time and i've recently returned and considering that i started in neon mixtape part 1 i assume 10-5 was the reason why i stopped playing months ago. Also glad i decided to finish it before quitting because i would have definitely quit again if that was the first lever i played after a long break

I don't know if it's just me, but there's something about your way of speaking that makes you difficult to understand. You have clear audio quality, and I don't think it's an accent or anything, so I believe it's just how fast you speak. I'm not sure if it's just a me problem, but I just thought I'd point it out.

Sorry, I just closed this video due to speakers undefinable accent. I really didn't understand the video, although it was in English (maybe I'm not that good in English, anyways).

I hate how the creator tries to shame people who call the mod too difficult

13-9 could be an interesting level, but it utterly fails as an intro to chomper I agree, and it could easily give a lasting bad impression. I love my boy chomper and he has many great uses but I don't think I would ever have considered using it in that level if it was a regular CYS. (low armour basics and wizards, duh)

THANK YOU! Finally someone that doesn't like trash "hard" games.

Weasel holders subtitles: we'll holders

Can't believe there are people who still think Eclise is a great mod.

Eclise has all the catagories except they're all challages at the same time

Ay, I feel kinda rude asking this, but would you mind adding subtitles to your videos? Your accent is sort of heavy and as a non-native speaker who's mostly used to listening to white gringo folks it's hard to make out what you're saying sometimes. Thank you!

Now they don’t have to teach you anymore!

I love your videos but damn you speak way too fast! You slur over your words and it makes it tough to understand what you say. The content in the videos are incredible and the script (what little I could decipher from it) is solid.

i liked eclise but it feels like it toes the line between challenging and unfair too much

I used to play eclise before alpha. And good lord did i struggle even on easy difficulty. I got stuck in alot of the levels and when i got to second half of each world i got stuck on almost every other level.

Saw you're intensive carrot vid and now i'm hooked

THE ACCENT OH MY GOD

Eclipse teaches players to spam selectively not completely just make you have more skill to complete level but there are some that gives you brain damage just trying to complete it

The problem with eclipse its that they think that being hard its equal to being good on gameplay perspective for pvz and thats not what define a pvz game, its the feeling that youre advicing and becoming more powerfull, granting you a way yo play as you preffer (sometimes forcing you to try a different way but with you own trick) while the enemies become harder. This mod dosnt have any kind of feeling that youre becoming powerfull and dont like you to play as you preffer, its the feeling that every time youre playing youre up to a really hard challenge that you need to solve on porpouse to procede, they did not teach you how youre gonna make the puzzle, youre just by youre own, even on a perspective of puzzle games This dosnt work, cause they at least teach you new mechanics as the game procede, becoming more strange as the game passes like cut the rope for example.

18:30 what the duck did he say

Everything away.... The mini games are insanely terrible i mean... Pvz 1 minigames was fun-easy-understandable Pvz eclise mini games force you to use plants And goodpea2 think that conditions in minigames is fun?! Challenges be like: You see this zombie: place a potato mine You see this zombie: place iceberg You are not playing a game... Aren't game are supposed to be fun.... You are just memorizing nearly every level Gtooo is better...

I dont get the hate ngl i downloaded it cus a friend talked about it a while ago shit feels unique but hard and thats why i like idk about yall but the comments feel pitful

I’ve only played through v1.5-1.8. But it’s a shame to hear it’s only become a worse experience with time since then. This video definitely strikes a cord with me for 20-8 in particular. An intro for what could be a very different game at what was the third final level of the campaign at the time I beat it, with that being the only level of its kind in the campaign (and side levels excluding mini games and community ones) was also extremely out of place. The signs were always there with an incredibly high rate of people going off the mod within the first ten to twenty main levels.

It's *_still_* in alpha stages of development?

I think Eclise still a great mod when compares with other PvZ2 mods.

How irony The creators say that The original game was unfair and now the mod is more unfair than the original pvz

i beat 10-5 with dusklobber which in my opinion is better than red stinger its cheap splash damage very useful

Okay, this is a more thought provoking video. I find it very petty that you collected a bunch of data for something that seems so extremely petty, but it does bring up discussion to my head about proper game design. Introducing players to a mechanic is very important and I struggled with this in my own game. Making a typical RPG doesn't have to force players into learning the basics of magic, attacking, defending and whatnot unless it is very different from games they've played before. Getting a new skill that is simple such as attacking twice or increasing defense can be red up in the pause screen and it's easy to go from there. My game introduced a brand new class, the Hexblade. It's not obvious what the intention is, while I know that it is supposed to be a gigantic force using unholy power to strike absurdly hard and curse opponents to make them weaker and damage self to gain buffs, even when reading up the effects in the pause menu play testers have been describing it as a very janky process trying to figure out what the literal main character is and is supposed to do. I actually counteracted this by setting up dialogue as a tutorial to the player, the characters in the game talk to each other about their own skills whenever a new one is introduced and it's explained how these skills interact with the enemies around them. A very nice hidden tutorial I used is that Earth attacks are always strong against anything touching the ground, but are extremely ineffective on anything that can rise over it. It was used to describe one of the skills "Crush," a simple twin-attack that deals Earth damage, and the enemies around are bandits with pet ravens giving players clear idea on what to do. I can actually understand how these problems plague Eclise. It's actually one of the two major reasons I left but I never actually realized in my head what the problem actually was with me not being able to understand the levels. There was one secret level in Frostbite Caves where it was snowing, and it would cause zombies to slow down but also constantly freeze plants. No matter how many different lineups I tried I could never defeat the level, but when I looked up a guide I saw the player was placing hot potato on the zombies for the 0.1 seconds they were frozen for and it made me beyond upset that this mechanic was never explained to me. In fact I often took to the discord server to complain and ask why there are so many hidden mechanics that are not explained and causing me to lose 5 times over. In Dusk Lobber's intro level, I never actually realized the plant was unable to be eaten. I lost because a bunch of weasels ran right past her and I was so taken aback like "HUH???" after my 3rd attempt trying to beat the stage. That happened like 12 times throughout the game where I was "introduced" to something and it never clicked until I either looked it up or after failing the same stage 10 times in a row.

What are you SAYING

At least we have grind thousand

Im know Im late to this but I can't really here what he's saying at the end of the video that well. Can someone clarify what he's saying?

There were many times I wanted to stop playing eclise and I almost did But I pushed myself through and Managed to complete possibly the longest pvz mod I've ever played

EDIT: now dusk lobber ISN’T required for 5-6 and now it’s fire peashooter! The plants swapped places in alpha 4.5

*I couldn't get past eclise's Dark Ages levels-*

Man. This hits hard o-o" Good thing I take note of this for my future mod hehehe

Great video but there are some points where it would be helpful if you talk slower like 14:45 because i can’t really understand you

Honestly i did try and finish eclise beta but the game was so fine tuned that it's just sour playing through it, you know for a fact that they intentionally made the game fucking awful and everytime i see a level with a ring i can't wait throw up hoping it's not some sort of spending limit, mold colony, trampled flowers or some bizzare produce 9999999 sun Honestly annoying mod, but i had fun triggering the people in the discord by using the exact same winter melom deck because what can you do? Winter melon is amazing