That looks harder work than just sweeping an indicator along the fixed jaw of the vice

Obviously not for everyone, but at least we got to see it used in order to better decide if it's right for each of us individually or not. Thanks for reviewing it.

I like this video as a straightforward demonstration of an Edge Technology tool. The Edge Tech videos are almost useless being highly, highly overproduced.

WOW!!!! I have never read so many negative comments on any of the machining you tube videos. But unfortunately for Edge most everyone is right. But your presentation was good as all of your videos are. Thanks for showing that so some people will not make the mistake of buying it. Love your videos tho.

Not to be negative,but: the same thing could be done with an indicator on a magnetic base on the table ,saving the expense of the fancy Edge tool

I'm glad you showed the operation of this tool. I have wondered how it functions. Now that I understand it I see I don't need it. I can tram a vise to a half thou in less time than installing & setting zero on this thing. I have several Edge Technology products, and I really like the company.

Nice review. I am going to file this item in the "solving a problem that doesn't exist" category.

That tool is an Unnecessary complication.

Always enjoy your videos. I'm not sure if the product is useless in everyday machining or not but for LEARNING to understand tramming it is another tool for the beginner in school or apprenticing machinists. How many times have you heard or said, "I just can't picture it in my head..." . This will surely assist in that area if in no other. I must also say that it's entirely okay if you take rolls of benjamins or whatever to do what we all enjoy you SHARING with us. THANK YOU.

Thanks for the review. I enjoy learning about new tools and pondering the principles involved in their operation. This one's seems to parallel the principle recently demonstrated by Tom Lipton's recent video about establishing a precision square reference. Neat.

Thanks Keith for being so open and transparent about your arrangement with the supplier. This is how it should be done. I think a much simpler improvement of a vice for fast tramming is to cut a keyway in their bottom surface and bolt in keys that match the T-slot width. That way you get a good pre-alignment that in many cases is sufficient by itself. And then the hand tramming with dial indicator possibly using the fast feed should be easy enough. The Edge tramming tool might serve as an alternative for keys. But it seems awkward and bulky to me.

Nice demo Keith! From your test indicator wobble you may need to snug up your gib on the table a bit. I see your cranking influence on the indicator. IMO that is a total wast of time. you could do the same thing much faster by just putting another test indicator on the jaw in the same location using a mag base. Good review .....totally unnecessary product. ATB, Robin

Great tool Keith, I have several Edge Technology tools already and it looks cool. Thank You Matt C.

Very cool. I have bought a few of their tools, i have been happy with all of them

I always though tramming a vise was easy. If a person is struggling with that basic process they are going to have other worse problems in the shop.

That tool would not work for my set up but I am going to try tramming with two indicators. Looks like it would save me a lot of hand cranking.

I have so much trouble lining up the vice, But slowly but surely i get it square :0 But this looks like a great little tool for sure Keith. thank you for Showing it to us

It does look like it would speed things up quite a bit. I will be sharing this with a few people who I'm sure will love it.

Thank Keith - well done. I like the Edge tools, this one is as others stated a bit of fluff. Thank you for showing the tool and the excellent overview. Now back to the lathe...... smile!

Edge makes some interesting products (some of which I'd already made before I ever heard of them), but this one just doesn't make the cut. It also would take up a lot of space in a small shop. I like the other suggestions about using a second indicator on a mag base. I'll probably never do that, but it's a good (and cheap!) alternative.

This relies on the T slots for parallel alignment? Only works with one vice and T-slot size? I don't see anything here I cant do with 2 dial indicators and a mag base, on any milling machine whatever size the vice or T-slot.

Hey Keith, Nice tool from Edge and great demo, thanks for sharing!

It seems a good idea if it speeds up tramming, but as an amateur, I can tram a mill vice in less than 10 minutes. Something I do find is that my fixed side vice face block is warped and deviates by 2 thou in the middle, like this... ) | . I have tried shimming it but it doesn't seem to ever be successful. Should I mill the faces in situe or just ignore it?

What's wrong with using keys underneath the vise? I use precision grounded keys, and the vise are spot on in seconds, when dropping into the t slots. This I can't see any use in having? Using a dial indicator takes less time than setting up this rig. Kiss..... 😎

I am fairly new to hobby machining but watching several videos (OxTools and Tom's techniques) on vice tramming made for a good learning experience. I now use a .0001 indicator and am not happy with less than zero all the way across. This is a nice tool but sure seems superfluous to doing it the 'tried and true way'. I enjoyed this, and all your videos, but I am afraid Edge is off the mark with this tool. Perhaps had I not figured out the original way, I would be purchasing one of these though.

It's shows how much your channel is respected if companies start sending you stuff. Please just don't do a 'Wranglestar' I gave up on his channel when it became a one huge deWalt advert.

Very nice! I have a few of their tools and very happy with them. I've been doing this for over 40 years and can do it it in less than a minute so this tool may not help me that much. I'm always taking my vice in and out of my CNC a also. I need to be within a couple of tenths on the CNC so I use a straight 12" bar that I clamp in the vice to indicate. To me 6" is not long enough for what I do.

I've always used my protective table placard it's it's nicely between my BS 0 & Kurt 4in, since one or the other is always on the table. Since I put a leather bumper on the placard I don't even have to remove one of them to dial in the other just dial in and then you can remove the other.

Excellent Advice, Ad Vise Keith! N+1

I agree with Robin. That Edge Technology gadget is an expensive and nicely made solotion looking for a problem. The two indicator method Robin outlined is what I was taught in 1961 by Grant Frasier. Its quick, simple, and sure. If you have only one indicator, squareing a vise jaw is a simple process requiring a little ratio and proportion math. - Start with a clean vise on a clean table with the hold-down bolts in place and the vise "settled" finger tightening the bolts. Snug the left bolt to act as a "hinge." - Mount an indicator and set the contact on left side of the fixed jaw in the usual way. Set a zero. - Measure the X axis distance from the center of the hinge bolt to the indicator contact. Note that distance for future use whenever to have to square the vise. Call that figure the "offset." - Dial the table ro the left by the amount of the offset and note the indicator reading. - Bump the vise past zero to equal the noted indicator reading on the other side of zero - IOW words bump the vise twice the noted reading. The vise should be roughly squared at this point but for precision work refinement (or at least a repeat zero confirmation) is required. - Go back to your starting point and set a fresh zero. Dial the table 6 multiples of the offset and note the indicator reading. Calculate 7/6 times the indicator's reading and bump the vise to correct (a proportionate over-correction, actually) by that amount. Tighten the second bolt watching the indicator for movement. Reset the indicator to zero at this point. - Go back to confirm your repeat zero. Tighten the hinge bolt watching the indicator for movement. Note: t4here is always some uncertainty using a snugged bolt as a hinge point. If your repeat zero doesn't pan out, refine as needed remembering to use ratio and proportion to calculate vise movements.

At a suggested price of US$199 or even a discounted price or US$125 it seems like an expensive alternative to simply learning to tram a vise. It does suggest that an indicator on a magnetic base to fix the position of one corner for comparison to the test indicator could do something similar without the cost of the fixture. It does what it is designed to do very well, but I have to question whether that is worth the cost.

I WILL not be complicating tramming a vice with this product and I have bought a few edge technology gear .also I think by doing these product reviews ,it changes your own opinion of the product without you realizing .ask yourself a question, would you buy this product ,after doing the same job for 25 years with a test indicator???????????

THANK YOU...for sharing.

saludos desde España,me parece un ingenio,muy practico y mas cuando hay que quitar la quitar la mordaza ,muy amenudo,para distintos trabajos.

I'm only a hobby person, but a square back edge to the vise backed onto the column gets it pretty close to start with. If the vise has a curved back, just machine a flat on the back, after squaring the vise. Yes two dial gauges would do the fine tuning. I find it is careful tightening the holding nuts, that might otherwise alter the setting, is as important as anything. While watching the vid, I was thinking a couple of screw adjusters attached to the bed and vise might be good for those that struggle to get it that last couple of thou....

I would be tempted to buy one of those for 20.00 if it came with a edge 2 position vice handle included.

This kinda reminds me of some of the Lee Valley tools for woodworking, I like to refer to them as "solutions to problems that don't exist". I'm pretty sure Edge will sell these, mostly to people that looking for those type of solutions which there are plenty of.

I never had a problem squaring up the vise however, there is a trick to tightening the nuts on each side without moving the vise out of square.

I like all videos you have ever made. This was also a nicely done video. I just think they could have given you a more useful tool to review.

IMO...Edge does have nice products, some are good some are a fail! This product is a fail as you know there are faster methods to get the vice trammed very close, once close the tapping of the vise is self evident. I felt in your (very professional) review that you appeared self pressured to give this product a "qualified" thumbs up, got a feeling that this item got tossed into the pond when the camera shut off😳

If you cant indicate a vise with only one indicator then you dont need a mill.

Nice idea but I would just use a magnet base dti on 1 side and sweep with the other the square edge is nice to butt the vise up to but the time putting it on would probably take longer

Not a comment but can this be used on other machines? If so it could be a universal tool/aid and not limited to what a lot of fellows think about it on a mill only like a shaper cutting slots for instance. Just thinking (for a change), Greg.

why not 3 dial indicators? is the person who designed this tool british? Does anyone think this job could be made more complicated? Sorry I am unable to see why anyone would do this.

Is it April already!

I agree with many of the negative comments. After watching Tom Lipton trimming video I can tram my vice in the time it would take me to get that thing out of it storage place and get it on the mill

this device depends on its own squareness and as such introduces an extra inaccuracy which is not necessary for the process

Unfortunately jaws are not perfect either--so a full sweep is necessary. I always have to cross over a low spot and not consider part of the jaw during squaring ops. Great demo thank you Keith!

Keith. just be honest. You and everyone else knows you will never use it again. I really don't see how you could even recommend it for a beginner. I have Edge products in my shop. But this is a BIG fail.

TA-DA is magic :-) cool tool

keith nice tool.

I have been doing this for years. A magbase indicator on the table and a indicator in the spindle. It does the same thing. Cool looking tool tho lol.

Check out Mr Pete’s Bridgeport tramming device with rotating indicator.

Not judging anyone but with just a bit of practice you can do it faster with just the one indicator…. Cool tool, I was hoping it had other uses. My trick is to tighten one side and then just barely snug the other, then I can just make the other side of the vise match the locked down side.

Set up vise one time upside down, mill slot in bottom to accept 3/4" key stock, drill and tap keeper bolts, then turn vise over and drop into table slot. If not close enough some work needs to be done on the machine to square everything up.

From the comments it would seem anyone getting something for free is a sin these days. Your review was fine. I figure anyone getting a freebie this day and age is doing good. My own way of doing things is if I see a good review on a product,then I will dig deeper If I buy something just from one persons word of mouth and it's a pile of junk,well that's my fault. I enjoy your channel.

So this device can measure the error when all I want to do is set a zero error. I don't really need to know what the error was!

It is not difficult to square a vise with just an indicator if you tighten one side down and leave the other side loose. The tight side then serves as a pivot point and the loose side can move forward or back. The problems most people have is either they overshoot by tapping too hard, or they do not check their work and the vise moves on the loose side when they tighten down the flange nut on the loose side. This latter problem can be somewhat mitigated by using a regular hex nut and heavy (thick) flat washer that can move when torque is applied, but in either case torque is applied SLOWLY. Leave it to Edge Technology to come up with another product to a problem that doesn’t really exist.

Another great vid Kieth but i honestly feel if someone cant be confident to tram a vice the old way in less time than this vid they need to continue thier learning before they are ready to safely operate a mill unsupervised

We know you are honest Keith. OTOH this gadget should remain on the shelf or yet someone's dream. Trying to solve a problem where none existed!

Hmmmm whats the difference to just use a magnetic foot and attach an indicator directly to the table? I cant see the difference.... Except for helping in the initial rough setup. Otherwise I dont see why you need it? However thanks for sharing :-)

Presentation was nice Keith. Well done video. :-)

Kieth, I must have missed something. What did the EDGE Technology device do other than get in the way of your Last word? Not being critical because these folks have obviously put a great deal of time and effort into producing this thing which I respect. Other than indicating one point it appeared to do nothing. Maybe EDGE could visit your shop and do a demo on a number of their products? Food for thought. Please keep the video’s coming...... maybe more machining, lol.

As a student machinist who hasn't yet even graduated yet (just finishing the traditional machining modules now), I really can't see the point of this tool -- ESPECIALLY not with a relative amateur, who almost certainly will NOT have vise jaws free of dings and whoop-de-doos: in which case, the user will be tramming to a dent or high spot with false confidence. Want your vise to be close to straight from the get-go? Push it to one side of the T-slots and then tug it back a sixteenth or so using both hands, then sweep your indicator. I would have my vise in tram before I could get to the shelf to fetch this frammish!

Keith, I would send it back because the shelf space in your new shop is too valuable to store so much Styrofoam. Hey, since it was free.... maybe a candidate for a 2018 WIYB re-gift!

I've never operated a mill in my life and even I don't think this tool is necessary. Like others have said, an indicator in a regular mag base would be enough of a crutch for someone like me if I was being too clumsy with just the chuck-mounted indicator.

“Me too.” Thanks for the review, but this is a tool without a purpose, unworthy of Edge. I first thought “this is interesting,” but when the Last Word came out not as a proof but as the actual tram indicator...well, okaaay. At least the review gave me the idea to stick my Noga to the table to monitor the “stationary” end of the jaw while tapping the vise into tram...not that it was ever a big deal, since I snug that bolt first as a pivot. This is crazy complication for nothing. And I can’t imagine rough-squaring a Kurt vise I can barely lift against 4 ounces of aluminum with two hinges, secured by a couple of machine screws. The whole thing’s nuts. Now if it’ll magically figure the differential when tramming Bridgeport *nod*....

This looks like a great set up tool

I thing that tool is stupid. You can do it that way with one indicator in the spindle and one on a mag base attached to the table, and save $125 to $200 on the tool cost. Thank you for a good job and a good channel.

Nice review, I always enjoy watching your video. Whether one agrees or disagrees with using this tool, it is a clever idea. Thanks for sharing.

I can see this as a teaching aid, or as a gift from a non-machinist to their favorite machinist, and, hey, it'sa market economy out there, so if Edge can sell it and make money, who am I to say anything? That said, for ~90% of the jobs that get done on a mill, the method which John Mills(?) aka Doubleboost used in his Sunday Night Nightcap two nights ago - and mentioned by a few others here as well - is plenty good enough. You take a reasonable square bit of material, and rest it between the dovetails for the knee (which should be ground *very* square & true) and the backside of your vise jaw or work piece. then gently tight down your hold-down bolts. I've used machinist's squares, 1-2-3 blocks, parallels, and various bits of reasonably square and true material to do this. I'm not a huge fan of attaching keys to the bottom of the vise, as the key slots need to be milled very true - not a sure thing - and the keys need to be protected from damage when the vise isn't on the table... especially, the screws which mount the keys are a bit too easy to damage in my experience. Given how heavy a 6" vise is, turning it over to remove or re-install those keys is a bit annoying at times... And, when you do need to dial it in with an indicator, if you've started with a square or parallel, you are already within a couple of mils (1 mil = 0.001" for the younger folk) and thus can hit your marks pretty rapidly. Like a couple of things from Edge, this is a pricey gadget that is worth a bit less than half of what they charge, in my opinion. The cool! factor doesn't pan out...

Magnetic base with a dial gauge no? Would be cheaper and quicker.... I doubt this tool will be used a second time by Keith as well.

If some readers have a problem dialing in a vise and their vise has squiring up slots machined in the base make 2 T-slot blocks to fit permanently for quick basic lineup and then dial in if its necessary instead of using that big cumbersome jig that needs a home when not in use, there is a saying that's been around for donkey years that says it all, Practice Makes Perfect, Edmund.......;.....Alberta

I think the NAYS have it. Motion defeated.

Cool idea, but too much for a problem that shouldn't exist. I do like Edge Precision's other products though.

Took me a bit to figure out what the function was here, and I guess I can see the advantage, but the cumbersome nature of the tool doesn't seem to me like it'd add up. I'd be much more interested in a version of the bracket where the cross bar was precision ground rod, and the micrometer was left off entirely. Add to it some precision ground feature sticking down the T-slot, this would allow you to get an enhanced version of that first step, so you're already very close for the indicator needle. This micrometer based version seems much more useful for training purposes until your guys can wrap their head around the task; and in that case it'd only be worth an investment if you have a lot of guys, and significant turnover. By the way, I appreciate the clarity of your disclaimer, however you did say you were provided this, and get to keep it; that qualifies as payment and makes this a paid advertisement. As such you're supposed to mark the video as a paid advertisement in the system so the little "paid advertisement" text pops up in the bottom left hand corner at the start of the video. You may also want to check with a professional about whether your deal with American Rotary makes every video featuring their banner and the Sponsored By block in the description a paid advertisement.

Why not just mount an indicator to the table???

Brian

it may be ok for the guy who needs it all but for the new guy that money may be hard to come by and better spent on other things use the money for a mag base and indicator to set on a fixed point on the back jaw and do the same thing but it's a good vid be safe.

Should keep the "I don't know how to do it" amused for hours. (FIDGET spinner,SLINKY ETC) But!Keith is a good presenter/disclaimer. Videos enjoyed.

you are the type of guy who does machine stuff all the time, I am the type of guy who may fire up the bridgeport once every few months at work when something changes at the last moment (or I forget something heh) and I can eventually tram a vice, but this thing lost me I understand sweep and tippy tap, then sweep again, but I dont understand what this actually add's other than more things in the shop and two sets of dials to watch ... which ends up with a indicator and sweeping

Not convinced at all Keith. Rather like those kitchen gadgets for boiling a better egg or whatever. Fun, but not really any better.

Just mount an indicator on a magnetic base to the table. Same results, less cost and hassle.

Sweeping it in with a single dial indicator goes really quickly once you learn what is going on. Hope you don’t mind me posting a link to an animated video I made a few years ago explaining what’s going on when sweeping something in. Here is the link. Thanks, Chris. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iM-Pqqh0xJalln0.html

I have used the twin indicators to tram my mill head found it to work great , but this set up seems like a large waste of time, just sweep the fixed jaw and be done . Why make it a lot more involved than it really is.

I have no skill at all, but I can tram a vise with an indicator. I also look at this thing and can't imagine where in my shop/storage room/laundry room/utility cupboard/horrific mess I'd keep something of that size.

looks like plastic if you had not said it was maid of aluminum I would have thought it was maid cheep thanks for the information

First time I have strongly disagreed with you. This tool is a solution in search of a problem. Beginners just need to practice. When I was a beginner machinist, money was in short supply. Buying a fancy one trick tool was out of the question. I think you treated the manufacturer too kindly. Didn’t need to be harsh but a short “unnecessary tool” would have been truthful.

no disrespect to you keith, but that was a waist of metal to make that tool. all you did was add another step to what you already do. sorry, but i agree with everyone else.

Cant see anyone buying it just for a small shop; it doesn't take long to zero the vice anyway

You got to be kidding! As a silly note put your jaws on upside down and you will never have a chip stuck in tbe bottom corners!

Keith, a gift valued at $125 is receiving a payment of $125 to present their product. Good luck to you if they give you things but don't prance around the issue. Peter

Save 125 bucks and just practice doing it the normal way

I normally do not have any problem squaring up my vice. I have a T-Bar that I clamp In the vice and indicate off of. It's about 18" Long. I first line it up by eye with the T slots, Then I zero the dial indicator out, on center with the axis of the vice. As I move the table out to the end of the T-bar, the indicated distance is amplified. Given a more accurate reading. I can normally get it within a .0005" or better first time. The trick is to Line it up by I first and zeroing the indicator off the center of the vice axis.

I first thought the tool itself will do the trick. But if you have to use an additional indicator, it is useless. Too much of a set up. Even me as an amateur can manage to tram a vice

That’s the most complicated and awkward design I’ve ever seen for tramming a vise. A simple indicator sweep across the jaws can be completed while this tool is set up and adjusted. I don’t think Edge will sell many of these.

Not seeing where it's any faster, tbh.

🤔🤔🙄🤔🤔

just Tenon the vice to the tee slots

These "promotional" videos are a huge turn off to a lot of us. It goes against the spirit of the community who's already bombarded by ads. If Edge (or others) wants video play on youtube why can't they buy an ad or put up there own video? Of course I appreciate the regular content you put up here, but sorry this one misses the mark.