Exactly the comment I was going to add!

@@dementievatzExactly the response I was going to add!

Agreed. Thats why Mondrak is way more busted and versatile

it is also good for redundancy, there are not that many cards with this effect for decks without access to green

also regarding the comparison to fiery emancipation/gratuitous violence is also unfair as fiery is any source while gratuitous is only creature

Yeah, Dana's argument makes little sense to me. If you have an opponent playing a GY deck and they mill something strong... You just take it. Breach is a value piece that always hits, rise is a wincon. Doesn't make much sense to compare them

100% agree. I've took Rise of the Darkrealms out of my Scarab God deck to put Breach. The difference from 9 to 7 mana is huge, and I've yet to cast it and not win a game with it. It takes it from a card that's cast in a turn where everyone's board progressed/everyone has answers/it's too late to cast, to a legit gamewinning bomb that comes out of nowhere. The fact you also reanimate plainswalkers is the cherry on top. Rise also doesn't mill, so it depends on other players using graveyards or needing for key creatures to die to use it. If you're on a heavy graveyard meta, sure, Rise is better. But if not, Breach has to me proven to be much more impactful and much less conditional.

Agreed 100% Breach rules. I get only the argument for Sepulchral Primordial because being a creature does mean shenanigans... but Breach never disappointed.

@@altromonte15agreed and saying just play a spell that costs two more mana isnt convincing

​@@yocowme I agree with this, but wanted to add that they(this channel) has made comments *against* certain cards simply because a comparable card was a few/couple mana *cheaper.*

Agreed Lotho has done work for me and I’m excited to put it into my legendary party deck

Yep. Lotho is a cEDH staple at this point. Now, it may be worse in low-powered casual games sure, but so is Monologue Tax then. "Monologue Tax is better than Lotho because you don't lose a life" is a terrible take. "A piece that's in your list to provide incremental value isn't worth it..." so Smothering Tithe and Rhystic Study aren't worth running? It's not about incremental value, it's about overall value, and Lotho pays for itself almost immediately. It's 10x better than Monlogue Tax, with the only real downside being you need to be in orzhov+ to play it

Yeah, every time I use him, he average 2 treasures a rotation. One of the best 2 drops in my Shanid legends deck. The fact that you can trigger it on your own makes it leagues above monolog. One life per treasures is a great rate too.

The important difference between Monologue Tax and Lotho is that YOU can trigger Lotho yourself. The 2cmc as opposed to 3cmc is ALSO impactful. Not to mention you're in Orzhov so you're likely gaining that life back and then some just from all the lifelink/extort/etc that's incidentally on half the things in your deck.

Lotho is huge, I have a sneaky suspicion the hosts haven't played the card enough to really see it's potential. Surprised frankly because it's really good in Thalisse and I know that Joey and I both love that deck!

Nuts indeed.

Play this card in my ayara widow of the realm deck and it is so perfect. Tutor a damage doubler or tripler, get in an attack and dome someone for 16 or 24 next turn

As a budget player I'm happy they're underselling it, for casual it's low-key one of the best black tutors we've gotten in years. The longer everyone keeps overlooking this card the better 😉

Hording broodlord also gets played because it wins the game with saw in half and a 2 piece combo. It’s played in ALOT of Cedh decks

Absolutely. I run a decent reanimator package in my Henzie, but I've swapped out Rise for Breach so I have that Kass reanimate when I get some grave hate. It fills the grave for me. Very helpful.

Overall a great card honestly. Get to most likely do something post Bajuka Bog/ exile abilities.

I agree also breach gets 4 creatures rather than the 3 from sepulchral

Oh I'd love that to continue lol

This. My Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts reanimator deck actually has a fairly low density of reanimator targets, and it got a huge upgrade when I added Breach and Incarnation Technique. Being able to cast those with a creature-less graveyard and plop a Vilis on the field while dodging graveyard hate is huge.

It is literally one of my favourite cards of all time. If someone IS playing graveyard synergies, it usually gets something excellent out their graveyard? So it's even more valuable?! OK, maybe don't play it when someone has a SyrKon on board, but if anything, you're even more likely to steal their SyrKon before they get a chance to play it!

Yeah i feel like they are viewing this cards in such a narrow sense. Hoarding broodlord if it hits the battlefield typically results in a win for me.

My buddy plays it with saw in half to get two more broodlords. It's a great card.

Reanimate it, blink it, or even convoke it out. Like they just ignored that word on the card, its potentially a free tutor in a tokens deck.

Lotho take is a bad take

Yeah I have Lotho in 2 decks where it really shines (Abzan food / Halflings with cards like Academy Manufactor or Jaheira etc. and Esper artifacts / reanimating small creatures), and I have others where I think it would do well too. I think without the extra synergies it's fine or 'good enough', but not where I'd be looking to buy more copies for my mostly budget decks

I think matt just assumes it’s like monologue tax when you being able to trigger it is a huge difference

also lotho is not at all expensive. it's like a $3-4 card and has been since like august

@@dr00ness for some of us that is 'expensive' when we're talking about a cardboard hobby 🤷‍♂️

it is true though, y'all should be able to tell the difference between being overrated and being bad

@@beurtalvarez 7 mana to mill 40 cards on the table and get 4 picks of the litter is not overrated.

Putting it with Saw in Half is also *insane*!

​@@AmascutOnce you get to that point you could try adding burnt offering, victimize, and ardent elementalist

​@@Amascutmy buddy does that, it's a great card and combo.

It also combos absurdly well with Saw in Half

I actually like Vorinclex in my Agatha deck. His flip is great if it’s super cheap.

Urabrask is quite strong as a commander tbh

I've played with a few of the flip-praetors, they're weird but cool. I can see the Elesh Norn / Argent Etchings not fitting super well into a lot of white decks - the defensive stuff on her front side isn't bad, a 3/5 vigilance for 2WW isn't bad, and the saga is... okay? It does put 5x 2/2s on the battlefield but it's hard to build to more upside than that, incubators aren't super-well supported beyond that. Chapter 2 is strong, but then chapter 3 is an awkward wrath that wants you to be mostly Phyrexians. Jin-Gitaxias / Great Synthesis I'm building as a commander with the goal of emptying my deck for a Laboratory Maniac / Jace / or Thoracle win. I'll see how he plays, but being a card draw source in his own right with a payoff for card draw in the card draw color seems like it'll be playable. Sheoldred / True Scriptures is hard to enable from the command zone, but for any Dimir+ deck that has access to mill effects, she is utterly oppressive, a complete "remove me or this game is OVER" threat. ETB edict for nontoken, then flip for targeted destruction, mill/discard, and mass reanimation before flipping back to edict again? The power is there - it's just hard to set up the prerequisite in mono-black. Urabrask seems like a nice include for spellslinger. Free damage & more mana for the thing you were doing anyway? When it comes stapled to a 4/4 first strike, I'm supportive. The saga seems less game-ending than some of the others in EDH but better in 1v1 - that'll wipe a lot of a player's board and could just be the last 3 damage for 1. Vorinclex I've used a few times, the front face is already above-rate at 6/6 trample reach for 3GG that gets two forests. The saga is quite expensive but it can sure change a board.

@@51gunner The saga being expensive is why I love Agatha with him...I think I flipped him 3 times once...that was a weird game.

@@jlaw131985 Oh yeah, in an Agatha deck I can absolutely see him going off. The ability is borderline at 8 mana - you can get 2 big creatures, and start countering up and then fighting; it's good but I haven't always used it even when I can afford it. At anything under 6 mana that's an immediate "yes please" - his ETB will ensure you curve into 6 and having a saga that good going off much earlier makes a ton of sense to me. I honestly think the other Praetors might be underplayed, except Elesh Norn // Argent Etchings who I can agree is maybe(?) overrated. The fact that both Jin-Gitaxias // Great Synthesis can be a wincon and Sheoldred // True Scriptures can be a wincon means that to me, these should play in decks that can enable their saga side.

Great target for saw in half. Now you have 2 more tutored cards with convoke, and two more bodies to convoke them.

It’s less about knowing if they were going to or not and just not giving them a chance to.

They were wilding with this take - Breach is so absurd.

saying that Breach was bad because your opponent might have Konrad out was just such a weird example to use against it, especially since you're making the deck... you don't have your own Konrad in your black deck that's milling decks with Breach?

I can't believe they're this down on breach. The card is nuts. I just don't understand how you're going to be afraid of Syr Konrad for breach but not for rotdr but rise can get you *more damage* off Konrad than breach! These takes are just so so bad. Breach is insane.

Yup 100%

But then why not just run Angel’s grace?

@@Garl_Vinland I'm not a cedh player but i guess it's because everybody lives still can be used save your board or be a fog.

@@Garl_Vinland run both…

@@esconde9922 Tefari's protection can save your board, be a fog and resist those pesky mass exile effects, while keeping all your counters and tokens in check. You can also use it in tandem with wiping the entire board to essentially create a one sided boardwipe.

Everybody lives kinda has “I’m gonna counterspell the board wipe” vibes, but in white.

@@LoneSkag See also Lapse of Certainty, Reprieve, and Warping Wail.^^

The most important ability is the "cant win, cant lose". That blanks many strong combos. A Teferi's does not.

@@zackkelley2940 reprieve lets them do it again. Everybody lives lets you keep potential help if someone is running away with the game. Everybody lives isn’t worth its price tag tho

@@LoneSkag True, still a good way to buy time though.

Completely agree with this

I think Breach the Multiverse is an example of a high CMC card that has always felt fun or impactful when I’ve seen it played. Very unique but versatile design space where it’s good in both reanimator or mill strategies.

I ran it in a Ratadrabik deck on arena as another sort of token doubler. It would double the Ratadrabik triggers and any other aristocrat effects I had going. Getting 2 tokens of Elas il-Kor and then doubling the death triggers on each could spiral quick. Plus if you have to let it die, you just get another one from Ratadrabik.

I am running it in Henzie, where you double the draw- triggers from Blitz. Plus, I built the deck with most of the Blitz- creatures, even the not so good ones, so there's mostly fodder to make it indestructible

I put it in Wilhelt. Doubling lots of triggers when I sac zombies each turn.

Yeah 5 mana is a lot

Was great to meet you, thanks for saying hi!

Stats say nearly 70% of Elesh Norn decks have the incubate commander Brimaz. So absolutely, you're making your opponents lose life even if they block your tokens, or pay to attack you like a Phyrexian Ghostly Prison.

And please don't blame my English, as I am no native speaker... 🫣

Thats a really good point

I use it for willowdusk essence seer just to get the pay life parts so I can get more life loss.

On top of this comparing it to other 2 mana ramp; if it makes more than a single treasure in a turn cycle it outpaces pretty much every other card at that slot besides Bloom Tender. You guys also bring up power level a lot when discussing the card but at what power level do players not play 2 spells a turn past turn 5? Precons play 2 spells or more before turn 5.