Wait its been 5 Year WHAT!! Where did 5 years go, i still remeber you having them set up,

I installed a 4kW solar PV system about 7 years ago. We have net metering so buying and selling are both ~$0.12/kWh. And on top of that the utility pays us $0.12/kWh for Renewable Energy Credits (REC) for all the energy the system produces. System cost was ~$9600 after tax credits (30% fed + 10% state). We average about 625 kWh /month. The system matches our energy use so that zeroed out our bill and the utility sends us a check averaging $75 / month for the REC payments! Payback was about 5.3 years. The REC contract was for 12 years so we still have another 5 years on that gravy train.

I got 12 panels from the dumpster. A company was throwing out perfectly good solar panels. I'm not a math genius or anything, but my break even should be about 5 years

I'm starting to think that solar roadways don't make economical sense either

I believe the way it works where I live is that you get 0c for sending power back to the BUT you get credits. For every watt you send to the grid you can use a watt from the grid for free. So ignoring how battery's can run your house durring a power outage, the grid acts as your power bank at night.

Payback in the North East of England = 278 years

It's been that long since the installation video already? Da fuq I'm old

One problem I've seen here in the US is that if you buy solar panels for your house, it can raise your houses assessed value, which raises the property taxes. My father's neighbor (who lives in New York) had his taxes go up by over $1000 a year because of his newly installed solar panels, which far and away stripped away any savings he might've gotten on electricity.

In Ontario, Canada out FIT program (feed in Tariff) would pay you up to 80c per kwh. NO ONE uses their own solar power if they're hooked up to the grid. They sell their solar to the grid and buy back the power they use in the house for a fraction of the price. It's a big reason our electricity prices have doubled since the start of Ontario's green engery program.

I have always found the "payback" discussion to be an interesting one. If the question is - "How many years will it take before your system produces "free" energy?" I find myself asking - "How many years will it take before the utility company provides you with "free" energy?" I think in that equation, 5, 7 or even 10 years beats "Never".

I'm pumped! I'm getting a 10kW system installed in a few weeks. We have 100% net metering (kWh credits expire every April) so we'll over produce in the summer and run space heaters in the winter to zero out the credits. Can't wait!

"still in great shape", "not a lick of trouble". What kind of engineer are you? Any real engineer knows that you NEVER say this because that's when stuff fails... ;)

Yeah I did a test on the difference between dirty solar panels and freshly washed ones. if you ignore the cold effect when the panels are still wet, the difference was 4W on a 1500W system. If you price up that at the pathetic 6 cents a kWh the power company's pay, its $1.72 per 3 months. payback time on the ladder isn't looking good.

12750$ for one household - ridiculous. I guess a mechanical industrial energy storage will be much cheaper. The export rate change probably means that it has been built somewhere near, it would be great to investigate.

I help a student at the University of Pretoria in South Africa with his final year project, the project was exactly this, and we came to the same conclusion in calculating specifications to hand in for the project. He went to his professor with our calculations. He was then assigned another project for his final year. This was calculated about 10 years back with battery technology of the time. Our conclusion was that the battery's will fail before the system has paid it self, thus being more expensive the just getting power from the grid. Watching you video, I rely thought the battery will be the answer, very surprised, battery sill is a total fail. Next question is: What will be a 'green' cheaper way to supply our electricity needs. Good video Thanks Dave.

Wow - I remember watching the install video!! I can't believe it's been 5 years already...thanks for continuing to make great videos, Dave! I've learned a lot from you and you've inspired me to make my own projects...Cheers!

"Mrs. EEVblog" I'm dead

The power industry has some shonky practises designed to rip people off. I for example, can get 11.3c per KWh I for power I generate and export, but will have my tariff go from 24c to 32c per KWh for power I buy from them if I elect to claim the feed-in tariff by filling in the forms. The net value to me is 0. This apparently is enforced by the upstream supplier AUSNET SP. In the mean time, I am giving away excess power I generate for nothing to them. Still trying to get to the bottom of this, because I find it hard to believe they are allowed to get away with this. Any info from your listeners is welcome.

Dave, I went off grid 8 years ago using AGM batteries since that time I have learnt quite a lot about what is required for successful O cost in running a home solar generation and battery system. Because I wanted maximum power transfer capabilities using reasonable size CSA (cross sectional area) cables from the roof I opted for a nominal 48V battery system. 112V maximum with no load is transferred from the solar panel array which consists of 3 panels connected in series and 8 strings of these in parallel with a nominal 37-8V terminal voltage with no load and a maximum current of 8A full load. The potential difference across each panel (250W types) of course varies with load current. In my experience you don't ever obtain the manufactures power rating for the panels as it's based on max sunlight and optimal angle to the sun conditions. My house faces north with no shade from trees but of course the angle varies with the seasons. The charge controller is a Victron 150/100 solar charge controller which charges up my battery bank which consists of 12V 280 ampere hour batteries connected as 4 parallel strings of 4 batteries connected in series. 1120 ampere hours at a nominal voltage of 48V, maximum being near 60V on onset of float charge. The battery bank is connected to a 48V to 230V 50 Hz inverter rated at 5000 VA. Depending on house system power factor I can attain near 4.6 KW or perhaps more depending if the house load becomes inductive or capacitive. Unlikely to become capacitive in any way but can become inductive with motors from freezer, fridge, washing machine, air conditioning (compressor loads) and fluorescent lamps being switched into the supply at various time during the day and night. Leo Simpson from Silicon Chip asked me several years ago to write an article but as I was adding to the system over the years and had several failures using CHINESE garbage charge controllers and inverters I found I was still learning and didn't have a fully reliable system. The Victron Dutch designed equipment seem to be reliable, I have learnt my lesson with trying to save a couple of thousand dollars or so using Chinese rubbish even though these devices were not cheap at the time. Some Australian companies imported cheap Chinese inverters then marked them up substantially, well that's my opinion anyway, I am still trying to repair two inverters with no hope of ever obtaining schematics. On another note the reason why the phase voltage (250V or more in some cases) is so high from the grid is because local line transformers are being used for a task they were not ever designed to do, reverse feed. These are 11 KV to (415 line between phases) 240V 3 phase transformers meant to supply (step down) one way. The phase voltage goes up due to the multiple house inverters feeding then as a step up transformer, you can imagine the 11 KV goes up too.

Hi Dave, One of my cousins has an old farm in Brittany, France. He replaced the rooves of the 5 chicken coops with solar panels. He has a 50 Kw setup. I don't know why but his Sunny Boy inverters regularly break down and he has to get them replaced. The buy-in rates were very good for him, so I imagine he has paid back the initial loans.

What??? You don't use the BBQ often? You are ruining the image of Aussies. Come on, throw another shrimp on the barbie and restore our faith.

In the UK they're looking at 25 year paybacks! They charged a fortune, £ 25k, for some systems and it was all done via finance agreements. Seems that it was only 3kW systems they were putting in mostly, and many houses don't have enough roof space facing the sun for a 3kW system so they'd put 1.5kW on the shaded side! Many houses even have the panels adjacent to where the sun is during the day. Payback? I've never ran the numbers, because it's almost impossible find good or any numbers in the UK, but probably never with the majority of these systems. The IET journal (I'm an electronics engineer) had an article that did go through a typical system and stated it would be better to put your money in a bank account instead. And this was based upon a good installation. Worse, in some cases the agreements were that you rented your roof out and now because those companies have gone burst people can't sell their houses! You have a contract with a company that you can't pass on to the new owner, therefore blocking the sale of your house. I love the idea of solar power, but in the UK it was hijacked by scam artists and rouge traders. They're mostly all gone now, so you'll never ever be able to go back and get any form of compensation for them failing to live up to their claims.

We got 12 panels about 8 years ago. Receiving €250 for every 1000kWh we export, it paid back pretty quickly. I pay €150 yearly for being connected to the grid and receive €3000 - €3250 yearly. The system here is a lot different though. At night the meter goes up a little and during the day it turns back. So each year our meter is lower than it was the year before, meaning we only pay for being connected. We made the investment back in 6 years and they show no sign of slowing down yet. Excluding one incident during a storm breaking the casing of the cable, haven't done a single repair.

You should relocate them to your drive way and park cars on them when the sun is out. They will last longer and get more sun laying flat. Someone should invent that in an area that gets a lot of snow.

I don't know how it is in Sydney, but here in the desert southwest US I think it would pay for itself easily. Some form of A/C is necessary here, and the need for cooling coincides with the level of sunlight. Perhaps a small battery system that could store morning sunlight to keep the A/C going til dusk would be the sweet spot. The only problem at the moment is politicians who are hostile to renewable energy and friendly to monopolies. They keep threatening to outlaw home generation, and that threat isn't going to subside until at least 2021. That's a pity, because we need some source of backup power when the mains fail.

1. For a house with air-conditioning or underfloor electric heating, I would HIGHLY recommend a 7.5KW to a 9.5KW system.. NEVER buy a 3KW or a 5KW system, as your house will ALWAYS struggle to meet your needs. Always go above what you truly need, as technology changes and we need to meet and accommodate our ever growing electrical needs. 2. Solar Panels DO DEGRADE over time. So, keep that in mind. Get more KW's initially what you truly need and get more years out of it. 3. Cars in the near future or are already here, say with the Tesla or Leaf cars are Electric, and others will be either Electric or Hydro. We need to accommodate these to charge our vehicles. 4. DO buy battery backup systems. More storage, the better. 10KW storage is best for a ordinarly house and future needs. It's really needed in far North Queensland, during cyclone seasons and more so on the tablelands. Blackouts on the Tablelands, is very common. 5. EEVblog is darn lucky he gets 11 cents... QLD has dropped to 5 cents and it's further decreasing. I'm a Queenslander. 6. When you buy a solar system, make sure that it's a Tier 1 system and check the lifespan of the solar panels you are buying. Pay more, and get the better quality ones and you're not replacing them every 10yrs, instead it's every 25 years or 30 years. So keep this in mind. 7. Solar leasing is an option. It pays itself off. But careful to look at the terms and if it's truly solar leasing. 8. Check how many output/export inverters you have. Most houses have 1. However, if you installed 2 or 3 ore more, you can export more. My cousin has 2, so she can export 10Kw', instead of 5Kws and she will get more money back and sooner it will pay it off, itself. 9. ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS! Don't stop asking questions, until you're completely satisfied. And question every company you get into contact with. 10. Do NOT buy a cheap system. It's ill advised! Shop around and again ask a LOT of QUESTIONS! How do I know all this? I've asked a hell a lot of technical questions. I'm a Network Engineer and a woman. So, men get blown away when I get to the nitty gritty of the technology and ask a lot of questions etc... that's totally unexpected and at times beyond their comprehension... and AC (Nikola Tesla) verses DC (Edison) and the technology behind the solar and the new upcoming technology in solar and batteries. Btw, Edison didn't create or make or invent anything... he only had great minds working for him, and he only put his name to the patents. So he didn't invent DC electricity... someone working for him did. You only have to read a book on Edison to know what I'm talking about. Edison was only a great salesman. Oh and he DID invent the electric chair, after electrocuting a lot of elephants, dogs, horses etc... That's only true credit to him... a murderer and a user. As Serbs will say, "jebi vjetar". Nikola Tesla, a wonderful great Serbian man. The inventor of AC. A man truly beyond his times. Without him, we would be still in the dark. I'm saddened that a lot of his inventions was tossed aside due to money grabbing schemes. We would be way ahead if our car were powered by electricity or free electricity but the oil and coal barons wanted none of that... They couldn't measure what Nikola was proposing... Btw, Edison still owes Nikola's family money that Nikola did some work for Edison, and Edison never paid...

Here in Wyoming, we get a 1:1 feed/need ratio. So if we put a watt on the grid, we can take it back off with no penalty... So essentially we can use the grid as a huge battery. If we should be net producers, then we get $0.055 per KWH in a check at the end of the year. It's about $0.12 for energy needed from the grid.

Solar is the way to go! Great job! 👍👍

Lithium ion batteries for home solar storage is kind of silly, like your numbers show. You want to use something that's low density and cheap, not high performance and expensive per watt-hour. We're not trying to fit this into an electric car.

before I moved to Seattle for work for the last year, I did complain to the local MP in Sydney about the ridiculous prices of electricity and the roll back of payback giving to the grid as it was just 6c and yet we're charged 24c/kWh.. they came back and said there was a good discussion with other MPs and agreed it needed to increase and was proposed to increase to 11-15c or something (forgot the amount).. Did that even happen? Every solar powered home should complain to the local MPs, in numbers we can win this BS, fossil driven government.

I put on a 1.5kw solar panels with an upgraded 2.8kw inverter when the rebate was good. Still not cheap at the time. (Panels were worth $800 each) Still earn 55c a kilowatt. A few years ago, I used second hand panels to overclock my inverter with 4.2 kw of panels. (Just within voltage and current limits) Bought heaps more 190 watt panels for $40 each. (People who no longer receive the good rebate are upgrading and removing the original 1.5kw systems for new 6-8kw systems with 250watt panels.) Currently earn 2-400 a quarter. Have never paid a power bill in 7 years is it now? People said it wasn’t worth the investment back then! This is why the government had to bring incentives in otherwise it wouldn’t have happened..... people blame high prices on those who receive solar rebate.... ironically It’s now been proven, IF WE DIDN’T HAVE SOLAR power on many homes throughout the suburbs, we would be having rolling blackouts in summer! You’re welcome. 😀 Most people with the original good feed in systems wouldn’t be exporting more then they use. And that’s also assuming they have not moved and lost the tariff.

Have you considered putting something together yourself? I bet you could get li-ion's much cheaper than you can get a power wall. Would make for an interesting video series too.

Instead of Tesla battery you can buy used LiFePo4 from China in good shape for less than 1000USD for the same capacity as tesla and 4kW hybrid charger/MPPT controller for another 1000USD. It will be 5 times cheaper than tesla and much more interesting from DIY perspective.

Powerwall2 battery capacity is 13.5 kWh. That means the 19,950 kWh you produced over 1800 days could be saved in the battery, storing 11kWh each day, and that would net you a $5,586 savings at the 28c/kWh you'd otherwise pay for it from the grid. It would take you 2.28 times this figure to pay back the cost of the Powerwall2, or 1800*2.28/365 = 11 and one quarter years.

When in Australia I was somewhat surprised to see a distinct lack of solar panels on homes, which made me think "well if the NO BS Australians don't think it's worth it, then it certainly isn't worth it in the UK". Over here in the UK there's basically a monopoly on it, you can't install your own system if you want to get a feedback tarrif, so your stuck paying double the market value to have a system installed by companies who's shareholders are primarily the super rich elite and the govt officials pushing the whole scheme. On top of that i've seen people claiming they're producing several KWs of power on dark cloudy nights, which simply has to be BS, but I guess BS sells more BS.

4:45 it was definitely aliens 👽

I don't think the payback rate for power is any better in New Zealand. The problem many people see here with solar, is that the more people that have it, the less people will be using the grid, and therefore less money to pay for the infrastructure.

I paid 13.800€ for 30x250w (51m2) mono crystal panels and 2x 3kw inverters back in 2012. I live in Scandinavia (Not sunny Australia! :( )and the system have made 38Mwh so far. Because we pay 37c per kwh, the system paid itself off last week :) We have no subsidies from the government where i live, but they do allow me to sell my excess power to the grid. Hopefully it will run trouble free for another 10-15 years and make us a nice profit while helping the environment. Cheers /Daniel

Actually, so far our experience is better. We have an East West system in Sydney of two strings of 12 panels each string, equaling 3.5KW per string. It's not as efficient as a north facing one, but we get a longer day. We also have a 6.5 KW LG battery. Total installed cost net of $5K subsidy was $12K. We used to pay about $2k a year, rates have increased, and in 1 year, we've only paid $300, June to June. We changed to Origin Energy solar boost where we get 15 cents per KWh feed in tariff and time of day rates. We rarely buy electricity at peak rates (2pm to 8m, and almost never shoulder rates (8pm to 10pm and 7am to 2pm). So we basically only buy offpeak, which is about the same cost as what we export at. We generate a maximum of 42KWh per day in Summer, and about 10-12KWh in winter. So a 6 to 7 year payback is what's indicated. we use about 12Kwh per day. Of Course the battery will store less over time and will need replacement at (say) 10 years when it is predicted to only store 60% It cost $6K last year, but we gamble on the price falling substantially, possibly to half? Anyway, it still makes sense to us.

GOT MY 121GW YESTERDAY DAVE, It feels great in the hand like a quality product should! Thanks for all the time, brain cells and hassle to offer these. Can't wait till I Get a chance to put it through its paces!

@eevblog - Dave, just for squits n’ giggles, could you do a video on how much it would cost you if you built your own Tesla Powerwall equivalent?

Here in Saskatchewan we have Net Metering... meaning, extra power produced, is "banked" with the power company for our future consumption. Granted this is over a April-March period, any extra banked is lost. So companies do best to match output to what we use over a year. Great program!

The only numbers you really need at 19:00 are the last two lines. You only got to use 1/4 of what you produced and it met more than half your needs. Storage, storage, storage!

You gave away most of the the punchline @5:12 Also about time to chop-down some trees to be "eco-friendly."

We see over 30kwh a day yet only use around 13kwh a day, so it paid for itself under 3 years being it cost $3999 for 5.5kw

You should've put your solar panels in your driveway Dave. Under thick rugged glass and park your car over them! You're obviously doing it wrong and expecting good results..

Here in Poland we currently get 80% back from what we export. It is a pretty good deal. However you have take into account that the production in winter will be very low.

The battery backup system also works good were the power grid is very unstable. I calculated for myself as well, also not a good investment. To bad, the idea is great. Maybe if you build a battery pack yourself?

People who spend 25000 bucks for a PV installation with a storage battery and say: "I produce my own electricity for free" are those who don't do payback calculations. People who say: "I produce my own electricity but it costs me 25000 bucks" are those who do payback calculations.

I have a 4 kw solar system installed in 2010. In 2017 i had a Tesla powerwall 2 installed and my bills went from $280+ down to $85+. Instead of selling excess energy for 6c i used it at night. now a year later i am almost 95% energy independant according to the Tesla app.

I've been watching GPVlog's channel and he has been slowly ramping up his system with deep cycle marine lead acid batteries. I know the channel Journey with Jono uses LIFEPO4 batteries. Each type of battery has different costs and characteristics. Both systems use a form of charge controller to make sure the batteries don't get overcharged. I honestly wouldn't invest into a battery system but instead roll my own by buying the batteries and charge controller separately after watching the above 2 channels.

How about if you heat you water in big waterboiler. You can use whole day at smaller power to heat that waterboiler. Then all heat what you need is solar powered.

That is a great video with great analysis. Just facts. I love it. 1A+ content.

Nice to see you run through the numbers properly. A couple of years ago I was going to install a powerwall and I calculated a 15 year payback. At the time I thought the calcs were optimistic, and so ended up not doing it.

Omg, no way it's already five years? I remember your video about the installation, as it was yesterday. Time passes like crazy ...

I love EEVblog but i just have to leave this here since today i am bombing all of the solar videos: STOP! Efficiency comparison is useless. You first need to think about usable sunlight hours and where you live so PLEASE read the info below: Most of the planet are using the wrong Panels! If you don't track the sun daily, if your not going to change the angle seasonally or if you have a decent amount of overcast days and if you have a bit of extra space then the best panels are thin film. Most of the northern hemisphere are using mono or polycrystaline panels which are no good unless you live at the equator or unless you track the sun throughout the day and the year. The panels that everyone uses only work well when aligned into the sun and are completly unobstructed from shadow. Thin film panels will work in low light levels which includes sunrise sunset, overcast days partially obstructed by shadow and unaligned panels. So unless you track the sun Mono and Polycrystalline are only getting a decent amount of power for 4 or 5 hours a day for half of the year. Thin film will give you full power all day all year long! If you have a little more space and can invest a little more initially you will soon recover your costs and more!

The only energy storage system that makes sense would be water storage. Given that you have enough water and elevation. Fish are a byproduct.

Geeeeze... what am I supposed to watch when one EEVblog video was just released and then a few minutes later an EEVblog2 video!?!? Oh man, the choices! ;-)

The same system in Florida would have problems with lightning storms, so the failure rate may be a problem. The reliability for the system you installed was excellent so far, but as time goes on, the chance of a failure in some part of the system will have to be calculated into the system. Since most people can;t fix any of the electronics, they are at the mercy of the manufacturer, and that has to be subtracted. The other issue is that the panel output will decline over time. It is a slow process, but it does happen. So you either replace panels, or add a panel or two to make up for the decreased output. Some people live in a green house, meaning that they require very little power for the way the home was buried into the side of a mountain, and some other factors, like getting more shade from being on the side of a mountain that blocks the heat from the sun at the hottest time of the day. So it takes a lot of knowledge to get the most out of solar, and whatever else can be done. It's not for everybody, and the people that can least afford, it need it most.

I have to wonder something here. You are talking about using Li-Ion batteries for energy storage at your house; this means you are using a chemistry optimized for energy density and light weight instead of capacity vs cost. Would it be more feasible if you used much cheaper flooded lead acid batteries for the bulk energy storage? You're not going to be moving them around after all, so their weight doesn't matter. Only total capacity, reliability, and cost.

Electricity: Use it or lose it.

So we've got an 11kW system and I was glad to see you mention the electric car aspect! The amount we save on fuel through the solar is superb and wasn't in our original payback calculations at all. What are your views on a more DIY based lead acid battery system?

Holy crap, it's been 5 years already?!? Man, I remember the first video after the install.

Yess,

Definitely aliens

In California we can get a power wall installed for 7-8k USD and the power company charges ~41 cents per kWh (PG&E is the poster child for regulatory capture). They do have net metering where so the case for a powerwall is still weak.

When I moved to Loveland, CO in 2006 , I was paying about 6.5 cents per KWH. Now in 2020, I am paying about 9.5 KWHs. I use about 2,600 KWH in the summer months (air conditioning) and around 1,300 KWH in the winter time (gas heating and shorter days means more lights). Solar for me makes no sense for a reasonable payback.

17:40 but what the hell? A typical long-term lead battery system is like 50$ per kWh. At those sorts of prices you could have 50kWh storage and an inverter and still be cheaper than their 3kWh system

At 16:00 If you are storing the energy and not exporting it you are saving 24c not 12c, as that is 24c you are not importing.

I buy from my production of the solar on my roof. I pay 13 cents US a kwh. If I paid from the city its 28 cents US. I've become solar dependent I only use the city during the winter but I build enough credit through the year that it pays itself. I love solar. I'd love to put batteries so I can have power when it gets cut by weather

The numbers do change a bit if you take into account Time-of-day metering (which most of Sydney is now on I think). Then you are buying power in the evening at 45c, If only you had space for a lab at home. Could use all that spare power to run your lab.

these inverters are assembled in my hometown in Germany :) greetings

Looks like you built your own solar roadway :) Meteorite landing strip maybe?

I have a 4.32 kilowatt solar system with battery back up and a 4.4 kw 240 volt inverter. I'm currently using my 48 volt golf cart as my battery. I'm also waiting on two 5.3 kwh (used) tesla model S battery modules that cost $ 1500.00 US each. I'll let you know how it goes. I think people can still get a reasonable payback if they are willing to put in the effort and do most of it themselves. To me solar is a way to solve my power needs permanently and no longer need to just keep the power company off my doorstep every month. My Costs so far: Solar panels 4750.00 Inverter 2000.00 Charge controller 500.00 Hardware /misc 1000.00 Li Batteries 10.6 kwh 3100.00 Total $11,350.00

I think the best usage for solar panels at home is to free yourself from the grid as much as possible, grid payback is just a fraction of what you pay the grid to get their energy. A battery pack that can more or less guarantee 24/7 operation offgrid outside winter and bad climate situations). Once you meet that goal you sell excess energy to the grid. Also work on efficiency for your home appliances, electric water boilers, stoves, hair driers are gigantic energy hogs, it's cheaper to use gas for it.

Yes battery storage is extremely expensive and it make no sense in grid connected homes but mot people do not understand this and so battery storage for grid connected homes is a big business and continues to grow unfortunately. The 6 cent/kWh was the correct feed-in value to have and they did a mistake offering now 12cent/kWh.

Why on earth should the utility pay you the retail rate for the tiny amount of power you provide instead of the wholesale rate they pay the actual power plants? If you get paid anything other than the actual wholesale rate that means that all of your neighbors are paying for your solar panels because they have to pay higher rates to offset what the utility provider is forced to pay you over and above the wholesale rate. If Oz is like the USA then if you put solar panels on you get a big tax break from the government, which in effect your neighbors are also paying. So the net effect (between tax subsidies and net metering) is that people who can afford to install PV on their houses are being subsidized by those folks too poor to even consider it, i.e. tax the poor and pay the rich so the rich can feel good about how 'green' they are.

I had a company come out...They claimed their system would be meet 75% of my total needs FOR A YEAR with a 4KW System...realize, I'm in the state of Michigan...we get probably HALF the solar energy days you would get...BTW: My System cost for that 4KW is A TON more than you paid for your system...That system in my neck of the woods? North of $35,000 (I was quoted $45K, but I'd get a one time tax right off of $10K...maybe because there are only so many of those allowed in a year). So, yea..even at the numbers I was told my payback is more like 25 or 30 years...so no thanks. BTW: We won't get nearly 75% of my energy needs in a year (just isn't possible when you have trees, and Michigan weather of yick)...I'm looking at 50 years to payback a system...

Even though the payback period is too long, the most benefit of installing a solar rooftop setup in my home in India is that we have elongated power cuts throughout the day especially during summers (because of poor grid infrastructure or India being developing you can say :P). So the solar runs the load and charges the battery during daytime and the stored energy comes useful in night time. Thus we get almost 24x7 electricity. Its a must must for Indian homes. We use lead acid tubular batteries which are not as expensive as Tesla powerwall, so the systems as a whole does not cost too much.

Build a Solar Powered bitcoin mining system instead of exporting power to the grid..

I should have expected his solar panels to payoff because he lives in Australia. Up in East Coast of Canada there's no way to get payback that quick on panels.

Ten years ago in some European countries like Belgium the "feed-in" was much higher than the cost of electricity - you buy the kWh at 15 cents on the grid and sell it from your solar system at 30 :)

We've generated 1MWh in 6 months in Kent, England UK. 4.3kWh system.

paying 5 cents for green electricity is a scam,

If you were mining cryptocurrency instead of sending back your oversupply to the grid wouldn't you making a reasonable profit like $.20 instead of$.06 per kWh.

Really glad that you mentioned that the battery pack was finite, since it needs to be replaced after the expire date

There's an argument to be made to your electricity company: you pay extra for grid solar (i.e. you're paying for someone else's solar power) yet the solar power you're contributing is getting bought at the same rate as if you used a non-renewable generator to feed the grid. Where does the money for the grid solar go? I suspect it only pays for the solar farm owned by the electricity company!

I put solar panels on my house in California. After the silly rebates they didn't cost too much. And they paid for themselves when I raised the selling price, and got it, when I sold the place. BTW sold the place to someone that actually said they bought it because of the panels. In reality they were a waste of time and money. Besides no one ever mentions the cleaning maintenance needed to keep them running to spec.

This is why home solar is a joke. After 5 years it still hasn't paid for itself, there is that risk of damage and maintenance over the course of those years, and that is despite being in a solar friendly Australian climate. If you invested that $5000 5 years ago, or just kept it in a savings account, it would have been more profitable. Or had you spent that $5000 planting trees 5 years ago it would have done more for the environment.

US power ranges between 8-15 cents per kwh. For US users, assume that it will take 15 years in CA (without installation). and up to 28 years in TX (without maintenance and installation fees).

Very well done. I liked the real world numbers. (based on this video, with your current system, at some point, you indicate 7 years out, you will break even. Now, you mention 10 years with no additional capitol costs. IT is possible the inverter and controllers, can last longer. Say. You get crazy lucky and it runs for 5 years or 15 total). My point is that once you break even, your power savings will start to add up.

Our transformers are shared amongst several houses. If I export while my neighbors import, the power goes to them at maybe 99% efficiency (guessing). Now if we all have solar and are exporting at the same time, we get into transformer losses. If there are too many panels with no consumption, then the power would start messing with the base load demand. It’s some interesting economics when you think about it.

The feed-in tariff should always be lower than your retail cost because you're paying to use the grid when you buy at retail. When you're feeding back into the grid you're still using the grid so you really should have the grid unit cost removed from your feed-in tariff. That said, 6c a unit is about what it costs to buy power wholesale from a coal-fired power station and you're already paying 5c a unit more for the "green power" option. As you are a producer of the green power you should be getting more money for your feed-in units. Of course, the sarcastic half of me says that only government-approved green power producers qualify for the additional payments.

In the netherlands a building company build a couple streets and fitted all houses with solar panel. After 4 years someone tought: hangon, im not earning as much as i should! Turned out, they forgot to turn on the master switch on all houses! Sadly we are not allowed to get solar panels in the next 3 years as the local distribution station cannot handle anymore and needs to get upgraded

Battery storage doesn't make sense at this point. Even when I went to Tesla the sales person of the Powerwall told me right away that you will not make your money back. As for solar economics, it costs about $0.03 to produce one kWh of solar power. That's way cheaper than coal, nuclear or others. I'm in Los Angeles. I did the math and I should break even in about 4 month of installing my system. During the day we pay $0.24 to $0.45 per kWh.

This is why they are trying to figure out the next big battery, then the costs will drop massively on current technology. Now price also goes down for the DIY crowd, framing and mounting panels, wiring inverter(still needs local inspector visit in most places), even building a battery or capacitor bank.

Very interesting to see some real world data on this. Thanks, Dave! It'd be interesting to compare the cost of a solar+battery system to cover all your needs with no grid import compared to what you'd pay to import all of it. I guess an off-grid cost of energy requirements versus all on-grid. Take the feed-in tarrif out of it all together.

Here in the Netherlands they are talking about changes (till 2020 no changes) , but for now the price for getting and giving kWh is the same. I have solar and an old ferraris meter (defent with your life, don't take a 'smart' meter), and wenn i import power it turns one way and wenn i export power it turns backwards. So in the end they only see the net result from import and export. I have a 5,4 kW (18 x 300W) system and break even....no bills. 👍😊 This also means that the grid is my 'battery' , without any costs or riks.

I really don't understand why the government isn't all over making solar attractive to the average punter.Since they are happy to stand in front of news cameras and say they support green energy. Not a lot of people would have the spare cash to pay out thousands of dollars for a solar set. I know I don't after paying for 2 cars and house etc. I'd like to have solar power but the cost and the shape of my roof for solar power isn't great. The payback for feed in power should be much better. Of course this is insanity given that Australia gets bathed in sunlight for a lot of the year. Great video ,very informative. Being that I live in Victoria my feed in rate would be better it's still not good enough for me to waste my money on solar power. The feed in rate would need to be close to 1:1 for me to even consider it. But I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Frankly - I want a battery storage system simply because I absolutely loathe power failures ... and in my experience, we seem to have that happen more often here in the USA than you apparently do.