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12 жыл бұрын

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Teardown Tuesday.
What's inside Rigol's new DS2000 series entry level oscilloscope?
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Пікірлер: 104

@djkelectrical 10 жыл бұрын

About those hidden chip numbers, a friend of mine who manufactures bonding solutions tells me he has a customer in the electronics business who uses a special solution to bond stuff to chips to conceal their identity. Apparently it's so strong that once treated you've got more chance of destroying the chip than getting the darned number off it. Looks like technology progresses everywhere, I can remember when numbers were just dremmelled off.

@AlexForencich 11 жыл бұрын

The ones in the power supply? Those are part of the feedback path for the switching controller. The switching part of the supply has to be isolated from the output, so either the switch control signals or output voltage feedback has to be sent across the galvanic isolation in the supply for it to work properly. Every isolated line powered switching supply has at least one. Looks like this one has 4, though I am not sure why. I presume one of them is for the AC line trigger.

@splodge69552 12 жыл бұрын

another great teardown. Thanks dave!!!

@Mark19960 12 жыл бұрын

My Rigol equipment has been stellar. They have been doing everything right and if they keep it up I can see them competing directly with the big boys. I have two pieces of rigol gear and I am considering a third. Obviously no competition from that DSO you reviewed the other day :) Great review as always.

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

Yes, I think I've seem something similar somewhere, but cannot recall.

@Monkeh616 12 жыл бұрын

I love the Torx screws everywhere. Most of those isolation slots on the PSU probably aren't even required, but they've put them in because they're doing some anyway. Good approach.

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

They are just (low noise?) linear voltage regulators. Powering some or all aspects of the front end circuit. They needed something like this to enable the 500uV/DIV range.

@DougWickle 10 жыл бұрын

I've yet to watch more than a few seconds of the video but I'm giving it a thumbs up based on the doc brown license plate in the background alone. GREAT SCOTT!!!

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

Kickstarter project! After-market clear covers for test gear! Fluke did this with a special edition of the 87-V for example.

@EEVblog 11 жыл бұрын

They are calculated based on the required impedance and type of material used.

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

I found the same match. The Rigol is 2GS/s though. But I'm pretty certain this would just be relabeled off-the-shelf chip. There are suitable ones on the market, so you'd be crazy to spend huge $ rolling your own.

@mikeselectricstuff 12 жыл бұрын

regs near front end - maybe seperate linear regs for clean supply to analogue bits.

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

It's the Extech MC108 digital microscope, as you saw in the video. Pretty useless for most things, but pretty good for looking at part numbers on chips. In this case it didn't work so well because the metal shielding can got in the way (it needs to be right on top of the chip).

@IndustrialGoblin 12 жыл бұрын

You know, there's a Dave's Law - When you already want to go to bed, Dave uploads new video. It's the LAW, and you can't do a sh#t about it! ))

@Tutoelectro1 12 жыл бұрын

Awesome work a 3:14 :) I almost didn't notice!

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

The 70MHz version is US$839 retail. The 200MHz unit is identical hardware wise.

@WooShell 9 жыл бұрын

EEVblog Could you probably do a comparison teardown with one or two similar entry-level DSOs like the current Owon or UniT series? I'm sure a lot of aspiring tinkerers would love your opinion on which ones are most worth their price.

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

Not yet.

@MrDubje 12 жыл бұрын

Damn, it's a nice one, Dave. Dear Santa...

@MrDubje 12 жыл бұрын

Hey, the vid's just up, nice!

@JesseTinkers 11 жыл бұрын

I dont understand anything you talk about but i still love your videos :P

@WhitentonMike 12 жыл бұрын

No kidding?! Sweeeet. They should be really proud of their work. Too bad it is rarely seen. Kickstarter project is a great idea. I've been in IT for many years and lost touch with the electronics test gear market. I'd crash and burn but somebody should seriously do it. These engineers really need their work showcased.

@danfo098 12 жыл бұрын

The mystery clock chip looks like an ADF4360-x from Analog Devices which is a PLL with integrated VCO. Connecting a 4k7 resistor to pin 13 will set the charge pump current to 2.5mA =). The other pins seem to match as well.

@EEVblog 11 жыл бұрын

How can I possibly know your requirements?

@mikeselectricstuff 12 жыл бұрын

BRGD = background debug? - pretty sure I've seen this as a debug/program interface for a MCU - con;t recall which manufacturer

@StewartAllen 12 жыл бұрын

Hey Dave. I'm pretty sure they have laser engraved the front of those chips off and not stuck anything on them.

@iTXS 8 жыл бұрын

IMHO there is a little error in pcb design of clock provider unit for Rigol's custom ASIC (14:30). Most of AD's clock synths requres perpendicular positioning for its two LC's (on screen) circuits - for decreasing inductance coupling between L's.

@OK2BCK 11 жыл бұрын

I see wiha screwdriver on yer desk, proud of ya mate

@panzerschrekIOI 12 жыл бұрын

Where I'm from (Canada) it's usually right after I ate supper, when I want to relax :)

@Floydarn 12 жыл бұрын

So many goodies!

@AintBigAintClever 12 жыл бұрын

Nice scope. None on eBay yet, the sellers must be trying to shift all their 1000-series first :)

@WhitentonMike 12 жыл бұрын

Dave, when you took the back cover off my first reaction was, "Why the hell did they put that ugly plastic cover over such a beautiful full metal shield?" Makes me want to do a couple of mods and show it off. 1. Powder coat the shield. 2. Silk screen on a large Rigol logo. 3. Vacuform a clear acrylic shell to replace the plastic cover.

@mikeselectricstuff 12 жыл бұрын

Sticky cable tie bases ALWAYS fall off eventually.

@michelfeinstein 10 жыл бұрын

EEVblog Dave, what do you think about the apparent lack of copper pour in the top layer?

@Monkeh616 12 жыл бұрын

That was my first thought, but it doesn't look like it's actually removed material. Notice how it actually dips into the indent on the chip at 14:20 The chips under the input cans might be lasered off, but it seems like a really crappy job of it to me. Might just be a really, really faint marking.

@kevtris 12 жыл бұрын

I did a quick search on digikey for dual input ADCs in 144 pin QFPs and came up with a reasonable guess as to what that chip is. I think it miiight be a ADC08DL500CIVV/NOPB-ND which is a 500msps dual 8 bit ADC made by national. The pinning seems to match from what I can tell (diff pairs, inputs along the bottom row, etc). If it isn't an exact match it must be very, very close.

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

Hmm, interesting, could be. That would explain it's "paint like" nature when I tried to scratch it off.

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

Possible, yes. Trivial? No idea, no one has done it.

@alisonaquinas 12 жыл бұрын

Dave, I'd Almost bet money the sticker you we fussing with on that clock chip was a heatsink! Check out Stick-it Flexible (AKA Cerac α) I've seen a couple products like it that increase the emission of heat into the air. I bet the folks at Rigol needed to take the temperature of that chip down just a few degrees. (Almost used something similar myself once)

@DLTX1007 12 жыл бұрын

Rigol : Beyond measure < nice etching

@AntonioBarba_TheKaneB 12 жыл бұрын

EPCOS caps seems to be from a TDK division, good quality German caps. They are not Panasonic but they they still make very good quality caps and inductors.

@toxanbi 12 жыл бұрын

Ah, you wheedled it on last electronics exposition?

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

It's still there. This one is double the price, so it hasn't been superceded.

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

Yep, already shot, coming soon.

@deelkar 12 жыл бұрын

the 4 mysterious chips next to the analog input, could they be driving the Relays?

@sallowsandy 12 жыл бұрын

Didn't you see it in use? It's his ExTech digital microscope, which failed compared to the stereo Mantis used a sec after ;-)

@mashersmasher 12 жыл бұрын

Dave did you do this tare down to get your mind off the last "scope" you took apart?

@CampKohler 11 жыл бұрын

How are the trace wiggles designed? Do they calculate it or do they try different layouts until they get it right? Or both?

@Psychlist1972 12 жыл бұрын

The only prices I've seen online for the DS2202 is almost 1600-1900 USD. Where can I get one for $800? :) Given that price range, does it still compare favorably with other offerings?

@ForViewingOnly 12 жыл бұрын

Is the DS1052E still in the Rigol range, or has it been superceded? I bought the 1052E a few years ago and thought it was amazing value for money... just wondering what budget scopes people are buying nowadays.. or is the 1052E still the one to go for?

@GeorgeTsiros 10 жыл бұрын

Kinda late to the party... it says 50 W max power consumption. What criteria made them choose an SMPS vs a linear supply? I would think a linear supply would have less EMI? Maybe i am just thinking about cheap SMPs.

@Nermash 12 жыл бұрын

Maybe they are using Rui Feng chips for adc, they have National clones in dual 1 GS/s.

@teenee4 12 жыл бұрын

Davo can a oscilloscope be used to measure skin conductivity like a polygraph?

@ACA332 12 жыл бұрын

Wonders what would happen if you used a scope to probe its own internals...

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

So they can make money selling different bandwidth models. Standard practice. The 200MHz model is the exact same hardware as the 70MHz model, but costs double.

@korytnacka7english 12 жыл бұрын

Hello. Which oscilloscope would you recommend me to buy? Rigol DS2000 series or agilent dsox2000 series? Well, the price in dollars is almost the same! Thank you.

@GiorgioCapocasa 12 жыл бұрын

Some silicon stuff to prevent the components from vibrating (: If you're a hobbyist, you'd probably use hot glue instead.

@Roymond911 12 жыл бұрын

hmm dave I see alot of via stitching on boards and I know it has to do with some kind of RF shielding but what is it exactly?

@GGelec 12 жыл бұрын

Hi Dave, i have a question. Why there's no powerplane (gnd) on TOP of this this kind of pcb? When i design a PCB i put always a powerplan. thanks

@ChristopherSlattery1980 12 жыл бұрын

Why do they put heat-shrink on the inductors?

@454charing 11 жыл бұрын

what is the use of the optocouplers?

@rainbowsalads 12 жыл бұрын

that white stuff is to stop vibration? is there a special name? i cant find it on google.

@pippaengroda 12 жыл бұрын

soo.. was the heatsink-hooks solderd?

@postal2600 12 жыл бұрын

Noob question here: what is that white paste between the components ?

@TheSageDad 10 жыл бұрын

What is the difference between the DSO2202 and the DSO2202A? Is 'A' just an updated version of firmware? The tech specs look the same to me, but there is a few hundred dollar price difference.

@XHyperxNovaX 10 жыл бұрын

The A model can be upgraded further, so if you use the firmware hack it is well worth it.

@chibieisu 12 жыл бұрын

how do you get these in aus/nz, id probably be interested in a DS1052E at its price point.

@DjViOd 11 жыл бұрын

The CAD software handles all of that.

@dtiydr 6 жыл бұрын

Holy shit this video is compressed to be a 1080p vid, dam youtube this is kinda extreme..

@eerikhm 12 жыл бұрын

I always smile when I see ISSI devices, because in my language it means "daddy".

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's just good belt'n'braces engineering.

@123456789robbie 12 жыл бұрын

why would they intentionally limit the bandwidth?

@getbusy21 12 жыл бұрын

what is stitching for?

@H3adcrash 12 жыл бұрын

6.3V is indeed the voltage for most valve heaters. There must be a vavlve in there somewhere! *cough* :P

@DavidLeeMenefee 12 жыл бұрын

Just purchased an Agilent 3000 because of you videos. Hope you got some kind of kick back from them. JCNDIZO

@Psychlist1972 12 жыл бұрын

Dave, have you ever started a teardown you couldn't complete because you didn't have the correct type of screwdriver?

@ddrl46 12 жыл бұрын

Thermal compound/grease.

@donpalmera 12 жыл бұрын

Best Chinese made power supply I've ever seen I think. If only this was normal and not the exception.

@korytnacka7english 12 жыл бұрын

Well, sorry, but there was an error in my web browser.

@xng14 12 жыл бұрын

REVIEW !!

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

Ah yes, they were.

@SETHHIKARU 11 жыл бұрын

Played with one of those before. I think it's a crappy one. I prefer something more expensive.

@ManofCulture 11 жыл бұрын

tek DSA8300 series :P

@JoelGarcia-ml9jx 7 жыл бұрын

...for Jousting sticks?? tell him he's dreaming!

@123456789robbie 12 жыл бұрын

then wouldn't it be fairly trivial to buy a cheaper one, and hack it to 200MHz?

@blankfield235 12 жыл бұрын

Sounds similar to BKGD pin of BDM interface of motorola a.k.a. freescale MCU's.

@pikuorguk 12 жыл бұрын

So have Rigol forgiven you for taking their last scope apart and telling everyone how to upgrade it for free?

@rainbowsalads 12 жыл бұрын

thanks FeuerfaustGolDAce : )

@KarmaElectronics. 12 жыл бұрын

wow lots of sheilding. i wamt one :)

@FeuerfaustGolDAce 12 жыл бұрын

search for Silastic

@EEVblog 12 жыл бұрын

Emona Instruments.

@38911bytefree 12 жыл бұрын

23:19 looks like some BDM header for 8bit Freescale .... just guessing

@123456789robbie 12 жыл бұрын

bkdg = background debug

@nigeljohnson9820 8 жыл бұрын

Why an earth do Regol insist in burying the 2032 battery deep inside their products. The user should not be expected to take the unit apart every few years just to change the battery. Why not fit an easy access battery compartment. Even better fit a super cap that does not need to be replaced.

@ricardonunes6724 8 жыл бұрын

The battery lasts for maybe 15 or 20 years, maybe even more.

@nigeljohnson9820 8 жыл бұрын

+Ricardo Nunes Not sure where you get 15 to 20 years. In my experience on a desk top PC you get 4 or 6 years. The battery shelf life, defined by self discharge, might be 10 to 15 years, depending make, but the in circuit life can be much shorter. The battery is rated as 210mAh. The 32768 Hz crystal is the HC 32 type, rated at a maximum of 1uW drive power. Working with a 3uW circuit current power, gives a calculated 8 years in circuit life, but what ever the shelf life, it seems bad practice to make the battery difficult to access by the user. Mounting it on the PCB means that a battery leak will most likely damage the PCB tracks before the user notices the battery needs to be replaced. In my case, the RTC, fitted in my DSA800 Rigol Spectrum Analyzer,, failed after just one year. This turned out to be due to a faulty HC32 crystal, which was replaced under warranty. The question is, did the crystal fail because it was over or under driven? The Pierce oscillator capacitors are not fitted on my version of the PCB, so the crystal load and precise oscillator frequency is defined by the stray capacitance of the PCB tracks and the IC input.

@ricardonunes6724 8 жыл бұрын

+Nigel Johnson I am not sure if I agree with you. The jellybean DS1307 datasheet says that you can expect a 48 mAh battery to last for at least 10 years. A 210 mAh would probably last for the whole scope's life.

@nigeljohnson9820 8 жыл бұрын

+Ricardo Nunes The in circuit battery life is determined by the circuit load, so I do not think it's possible to use a figure based on just the battery type. The assumption would be that the self discharge life is the dominant factor. In the dsa800 analyser, a small six pin RTC IC is used, but the part number is not visible, so I cannot check the supply current, I must admit I guessed at 1uA as a typical figure. The short battery life in a PC maybe due to the ambient working temperature inside the case. Again my point is why mount the battery on the PCB when it is so easy to mount it under an easy access cover. Unlike most electronics, the working life of lab test equipment can be very long, so it makes sense to make the battery accessible to the user, particularly where calibration may be affected by removing the RF screens. As an aside, I object to the amount of electronic scrapped generated simply because of the built in obsolescence of sealed in for life batteries, as in the latest generation of laptops and tablets.

@ricardonunes6724 8 жыл бұрын

+Nigel Johnson I understand what you mean, but there is no need to put the coin cell easier accessible if it will last for the whole product life time. The self discharge in those batteries is not very important at normal temperatures. If the RTC consumes 1 uA (I personally believe it is less) and the battery has 210 mAh of capacity, you can expect the battery to last for more than 20 years, and the numbers used in this calculation are conservative.