I have come to accept that Bob's my uncle now.

PIC: I'm consistently the same all the time. FPGA: Who am I going to be next time I wake up?

As an FPGA Engineer, I have had these difficulties whilst learning how to get going with the tech. However these devices are not intended to be hobby friendly, they are for specific applications and recently are becoming more popular due to the concurrent nature of the tech, also because you can design pretty much anything digital in these devices they are great for recreating obsolete protocols. But yes the tool chain and documentation is a pain especially for xilinx (but hey its free unless you want a paid core). I'd encourage people to get involved with them though, as there is a world wide shortage of engineers who can use them, and generally it's a well paid job with good job security.

I like the diagram of an FPGA controlling a single LED on the side.

FPGA = speed (up to 250 MHz), can emulate embedded cores (e.g. MicroBlaze MCS), multiple-clock generators, parallel execution, ease of intellectual property integration such as FIFOs, DSPs, you name it. *_The moral? FPGAs for the serious electronics person_*. I battled with learning Xilinx for six months, cursing every step of the way. Almost went NUTS but in the end, it is worth every bit of headache I got.

Your energy and the clarity of this presentation is stellar! The insight into attempting to experiment with a BGA package (as if the Quad Flat Pack was not difficult enough) is so "right on".

FPGAs are really great for those interesting in retro-computing or learning how a CPU works. I am implementing Ben Eater's 8-bit computer in an FPGA in a series of videos on my channel for anyone interested. Very cool stuff!

Getting flash with the four screen end selection - well done !

This is all assuming that you would be using an FPGA to replace a uC, whilst they are completly different things designed for different applications.

FPGAs are harder to use than microcontrollers, but I don't consider FPGA hookups complicated. Same with the multiple voltage sources. If you're messing with FPGAs, surely you can build basic voltage reg circuits. It's not for beginners, true - however the applications aren't for beginners either. FPGAs can do some seriously hardcore stuff that AVR's can't dream about, but it's primarily about the numbers of IO's and total system performance. Obviously they're going to use BGA packages - you need the IOs. A beginner doesn't need 1000 IO's that need to be processed in realtime and in parallel, because beginners aren't trying to create radar guidance systems and the like. ;) Just to kind of throw some basics here though, this is what you can do with FPGAs which is impossible with microcontrollers: -Multiple clock domains (different parts of the chip running at different frequencies) -Multiple internal PLLs/DLLs - even a cheap FPGA can be a fantastic multiple clock source. Need 50 completely different clock outputs? No prob at all. Most inexpensive FPGAs can produce ~500MHz clock outputs as a maximum, unless you use a transciever as a clock output haha. If you want very low frequency clocks, just divide them down with user logic. PLLs are extremely easy to make/use - from starting up Altera's Quartus to having multiple clock outputs ready to go on a dev board - maybe 3-4 minutes? No coding even necessary. Don't be misled though! FPGAs are still huge time vampires for more general cases haha. :D -Massively parallel processing - you can have individual circuits for processing each pixel/pixel group simultaneously for realtime/high framerate image processing.. whether it's convolution or other kinds of deep frame analysis like doing gradient analysis on frame stacks for vector motion estimation, general matrix operations etc -Perfect for things like singular value decomposition or tensor analysis on multiple data lines for statistics/engineering/networking work.. I mean FPGAs are the #1 most used chip type for let's say deep packet network inspection hardware (Hi NSA!!).. -FPGAs are fantastic "bridge" chips, in being able to allow realtime communication between completely different bus types. They can both buffer and restructure the bus to allow them to freely communicate. If you need to wire unusual data buses together, FPGAs can handle that better than anything else out there. At most, you'll just need some level shifter chips if the bus voltages aren't compatible with your FPGA. -Transcievers!! FPGA transcievers are basically parallel to serial converters which are a "hard fabric" in a sense that they're pre-built onto the chips, and they can give you datarates of ~600Mbps to 20Gbps+ per pin. They're fully configurable and it's even possible to use them for low datarate stuff if you cheat a little. Even some inexpensive FPGAs can do 10Gbps+ throughput per chip. -You can interface many FPGAs (almost) directly with the PCIe bus for true modular hardware acceleration for various APIs. The PCIe bus is full of its own complications but there are dev kits that handle all that for you if your body isn't ready lol. One of the issues is that the PCIe bus needs a very fast response from any board that's plugged into it upon computer bootup.. and the FPGA programming time often exceeds that, but you can dedicate other controller chips for this job... -It's not hard to interface multiple FPGAs together for more power. This is very common for specialized applications where you need to achieve particular specifications, and no other hardware can provide it for you. You can keep shoving FPGAs into your design until it works. Horrible price/performance ratio but it will accomplish the goal when nothing else will! This is very common but rarely seen. -FPGAs are fantastic learning tools since you're the one who will need to build data buses to communicate with any other chips you'd like your FPGA to talk to.. which involves understanding the data and timing structure of those other chips. This kind of knowledge and experience is invaluable for hardware engineers.. but hey it's not supposed to be easy, you know? However, computer hardware gets much more complex than this and you can't let every little thing intimidate you. Take your time, just be persistent. Giving up should not be an option if this is what you set your goal to. Once you get the hang of it, it won't seem all that impossible, just challenging in a fun way. To avoid being overwhelmed, just start with an inexpensive dev kit until you're comfortable with the basics and then try your own designs. I will shut up now. Sorry but I love FPGAs.

I'm still trying to learn how to use my Abacus.

Lots of years ago I saw an article on using an EPROM (yes one of those ) as a logic controller. Vauguely from memory there was a step ticker which stepped through the EPROM addresses and the output pins were serviced. I cannot recall how inputs were handled but the system simply stepped through the EPROM addresses and the burnt status presented to the outputs. A sort of Truth Table. Sorry to be vaugue, it is 30 yrs ago in Z80 days and 2708/2716 time.

SPI is by for the easiest configuration memory to deal with assuming you are already hooking JTAG into the FPGA. To flash the SPI, the tool loads a special bitstream onto the FPGA that is used to program the SPI flash from the FPGA. But yes, its a pain, if you screw up the program select pins, or the voltages, or the pullup/pulldown, etc, etc, etc., it won't work, and it won't be clear why.

This is the kind of teaching I like... subbed !

I love FPGAs - can't argue with the complexity though - I use bi-directional bus switches to handle voltage level conversion (the commonly used mosfet level translator affects rise and fall times which can be significant in some designs). An EEPROM eliminates the need to reprogram it after cycling power and there are Non-Volatile FPGAs available. But yeah - if you can get the job done with an AVR, PIC, etcetera, I agree with Dave 100% that would be the way to go. I am about to watch ALL of his FPGA videos - Dave is a Dynamic personality with a beautiful method of presentation (i.e. Genius)

As the memory is volatile on the FPGA, you have added an external flash memory. But it solves only one of the problems you mentioned in the video. Have you found how to resolve the problem of the missing oscillator too?

The Intel/Altera Max 10 FPGA seems a bit easier than most FPGA's. It has internal Clock, internal Flash and internal SRAM. Intel also deliver dedicated power solution for easy implementation. It also Comes with ADC, and even optional NIOS ARM configuration. It also has support for Different types of RAM, PCIE, and Flash memory. It offers up to 50.000 Logic elements. Can do some cool stuff with this thing. Still micro controllers might be easier though. But it all comes down to the application you need it for I guess.

Dear Bob i love your videos. Fpga’s are superior products.i love them

everyone is buying development boards and Dave is here making his own.

I've got both FPGA dev kits and ARM dev boards.. I tend to stick to the ARM stuff as embedded is something I know, and I haven't learnt VHDL yet

Hi Dave, not sure if you know about FPGAs with processor cores embedded in them. A lot of embedded systems designers (like myself), that need custom RTL logic with a "simple" microcontroller can go for single chip FPGA solutions since it can do both.

Hi! Thanks for the video! Can you give an example of calculations/operations which are better suited for the MCU rather than the FPGA fabric in the modern SoC which have both? I have been designing controllers for DC/DC converters for quite some time now on FPGAs (and then ASICs) and have never felt i need an MCU. Would be happy to hear any thoughts on the matter

An outsider question. Can FPGA be programmed without JTAG by just programming flash chip directly with flash programmer?

Cheers for behind this!

Actually Lattice FPGA have internal oscillator and flash memory.

I would rather use an FPGA board and go through all the difficulty to program/map a simple function. Why? I get to learn all hardware works and how protocol is defined, but with micro-controller , you mostly use the existing library people wrote without needing to know how hardware works, that's not the spirit of electrical engineer. For example, who knows how a 16*2 hitach LCD actually works? Most of people just know how to use a command defined by others to display and scroll words...

"Bob's your uncle", love it!

I have worked with Fpgas since 2 years ago, and I love to design my own system, I think that Fpgas are better than microcontrollers because you can understand how to work the hardware. You think like a machine. A simple example. If you need to divide 2 numbers using software programming like C/C++ you only need to write the symbol "/" by the way in a Fpga you need to understand how to operate the mathematical function to implement a Vhdl module which realize your operation. You need to generate your own code to your system can difference between a signed or unsigned number, number of bits, etc. format: fixed point or floating point. There's so many things that you need to consider, but the thing becomes more interesting :)

i have a little xula board, i read a how to for getting an led to blink, it was like 80 pages long and i had to go through it like 4 times before it worked i haven't gone back to it because i still feel like i have no idea how to use it

Being an FPGA engineer is like the opposite of working at McDonald's, there is a high barrier to entry so they can command a high price. Surely businesses would want technology that doesn't depend on people in short supply, this is an economic problem that needs solving

Your video is completely awesome, thank you so much

I think the only difficult part of an FPGA is doing all the connections. After that it is just as easy as programming a micro, but with a totally different perspective on what you are doing and a totally different way of thinking.

I love your tshirt! :)

Most people here complaining about why use a FPGA didn't just use one and don't know the pros :/

"This is very old footage" - yeah the 5V devices kind of gave that away

can you do a video on DSPs?

Who are you and what did you do with Dave, a "Quick" video under 10 min? :)

2:48 well this is the whole reason that CPLDs exist

Many FPGAs actually do have Internal Oscillators. They aren't "trimmed" so the frequency can change over a wide range say like 50-80 MHz. The FPGA hard-logic uses it to self-program via SPI flash and the like. On Xilinx FPGAs checkout the Startup IP block: www.xilinx.com/support/documentation/user_guides/ug470_7Series_Config.pdf - StartupE2 primitive on page 95... But as you mention you'll need a flash chip or a programming cable or something to make it all work..

Yet again, 10x for the video, Dave! There is something about FPGAs that I find mystical, even more ... magical. You cannot beat the feeling that when you're playing with such devices you are virtually a silicon God, being capable of (provided you have the time and patience) to accomplish ANYTHING (and I cannot emphasize this enough) in terms of electronic artifacts. This is the kind of feeling that I didn't get while working with normal MCUs, that's for sure. As Dave said, if you have the patience to go through all those tons of documentation materials that they imply, you can achieve wonderful things. But hey! All these capabilities/configurations/features have to appear somewhere, right? Otherwise, what good would they be if no one knew about them? But I guess this is also the reason why a lot of the people stay away from them in the first place. They can be intimidating, especially in the current WYSIWYG IDE ecosystem that we grew up with and are living on. Could be a matter of character, but if you have the curiosity yet still retain some doubt ... try them! What bad can it do? :)

Ok, got it, massively complex, I’ll wait ‘til tomorrow to try.

super as always

FPGA for beginners = buy the kit or don't touch. Noted.

Hi...pyro electro,,are doing a course on CPLG,,using a altera chip on a breakout board..

I like your Ts hirt. How can i get the similar 1

Thank you

6:24 You lost me there man! I just watch EEVBlog for the sake of its comedy!

grear video, thanks

you described ROM-based devices such as Xilinx, but not other vendors such as flash based FPGAs or CPLDs such as Altera or Actel (now Microsemi) www.electronicproducts.com/Digital_ICs/Standard_and_Programmable_Logic/Comparing_flash_and_SRAM_based_FPGAs.aspx anyone that wants to learn should use a demo regardless of MCU/CPU, DSP, nad/or FPGA/CPLD !!

Is there any new update about fpga 2020?!

Nice T-shirt :D

I love FPGAs all the way :)

uncle Bob，love your video！ where are u from，Scottish or Ireland ？

"The Blue Gene supercomputer must be so complex and have such a long Guide. And so big. Thank god I bought a Casio pocket calculator instead :D" This comparison is completely biased. Plus, I don't think there's a point in comparing those two, they're very different things. If you like HW design, you got to LOVE FPFA. In a PIC you put SW. For starters.

Your voice is amazing

Using FPGA as micro controller is just,,, awkward. The idea behind it is designing the chips themselves, including micro controllers.

My favorite controller is the Naional Instruments RoboRio, the one they use for the new seasons of FIRST Robotics, an impressive feature set, with common object oriented programming environments. Get one if you you have the chance.

Hi, gud one for hardware comparison but you should re-edit this one with additional info. Such as there working technique, spees etc.

*me, waking up out of the blue in the middle of the night, sweating* "What happened?" - I just had a terrible nightmare! "What was that about?" - I was configuring an FPGA!

This is SPARTAN (6)!!!!

5:50 use a demo kit FPGA is the upshot of all this.

No mention of these AT ALL in university undergrad

Consuming a lot of your videos and this will bug me every day if I don't ask. Is Athleanx your brother?

I wonder, why cant they make a package that includes most of those passives built in so that people can just directly feed it a single power rail and then just worry about the data pins?

No wonder! FPGA has not replaced microcontrollers!!

An eye opener to the digital age.... I do wonder how the youngsters would ever understand why analog was once a magical place where light bulbs ruled the world....? I just can't let go of the analog however, I do find digital so amazing......Uops... don't tell my ego! Thanks,... this vid has been most helpful and I have learned a great deal.

I wouldn't be as afraid to do it from scratch I practically managed to do my first HW design - Spartan 6 FPGA board and it worked on the first go, sure it's not ideal design but it works .. I designed the board from scratch in a course of 2 months in Eagle, not used any electronics CAD before, not designed any HW circuit or board before and this is result: github.com/josko7452/qwave-project - design working at 125MHz .. no problems ... of course I had experience using FPGAs as HDL programmer so that might helped a lot..

With FPGA, you need to define and declare signal, variable etc to actually program by yourself for the display to show or scroll words. A lot more flexible as well. The moon rover uses FPGA bit not a micro-controller.

FPGAs are "a pain in the @$$!" LoL!! That about sums it up. Thanks Dave!! :D

Good video but things are much better today in FPGA ease of use. If you need lightning fast, custom hardware FPGA is it. Most people won't need.

Why can't microcontrollers get the same speed as FPGA's?

Want to start in FPGA, do some digital circuit design, then learn VHDL or Verilog then get one of the Altera or Xilinx board and start coding your digital circuits... Basically you are just coding/describing your digital circuits in VHDL or Verilog. You can also design any kind of digital circuits on a FPGA or CPLD and even design your own microcontroller, of course you need to add all the extra memory and other goodies, but FPGA as I know from back in University days, most are used to design customs digital logic circuits although we did design a basic microcontroller with it.

sure fpgas have internal ocs! clk

In short: Micro Controller:

I use TI's cRIO. But the FPGA's are a complete pain in the ass to program because you have to use shitty LabView. I only use them because i'm already familiar with the product line because my robotics league uses them as the controller.

I still don't know how a FPGA is better than a PIC.

FPGAs are really not necessarily that complicated, things has improved since 2014 off cause, especially if you use one of the non-volatile ones like the Altera(Intel) MAX10, which can be argued to be a CPLD and not a FPGA, but….

1:59 he expressing like he hate micro. lol

1:59 WASTED :-P

STM32 is my ultimate choice 😘 FPGAs are better but, don't try to replace microcontroller project with an FPGA!!!

This is all nonsense. None of those issues really exist: You can in fact just connect supply, jtag programmer and flash leds without using anything else, I did that with my first xilinx fpga, soldered on breadboard with nothing else than additional LED Even ancient FPGAs contain slow internal oscillators and modern fpgas even have several PLLs that run at any frequency you want. when you use jtag to program fpga configuration pins are pretty much irrelevant also fortunately it is not vital to connect all power pins. Yes it is true that configuration will be lost if you disconnect power supply but who need to retain some led flashing crap anyway? Real problem with fpga is pcb routing, since those things typically use 2 voltages and shitload of power pins that should be grounded and decoupled properly so it is practically impossible to use single sided pcb and even double sided pcb is at its limit. FPGAs are only useful at super high speed designs and when you do those you cannot route boards carelessly you typically need very expensive multilayer boards with no less than 4 layers for even most primitive design.

Well then, use a PIC.

The sky is falling ? Do you do anything ? Or you just say its too hard ? Lol

Maybe it is because I am not an FPGA expert, but I don't feel like you were comparing apples to apples here. From your discription of FPGAs, it seems like you were talking about the IC by it's self. An Arduino is not the ATmega 328p, it is a whole package. It includes the oscillator, the USB interface and more. So why not compare an Arduino to a FPGA development board? You have some great content, but this video like a lot others (that you create) has such a negative tone. Recognize the fact it is hard to get into FPGAs and unlike Arduino (which is open-source) FPGAs do not have a big community. But, that shouldn't stop a person, give some pointers on how to go about it. Remind people to start small.

They're really not *that* hard. Many do have an internal oscillator and if you're a beginner you're probably gonna start with a beginner/development board, which is gonna have everything you need to get started (flash, ram, i/o, etc..). As a beginner you're not gonna make your own FPGA based designs anyway. So I don't really consider the things you listed as deal breakers, they're just minor things. The advantages of FPGA's outweigh them anyway.

this guy sounds tired of fpgas haha

comparing an FPGA to a microcontroller is like comparing a dog to a cat. They are completely different devices intended for completely different things. The author clearly does not understand that. You can implement a microcontroller in the FPGA fabric. You cannot implement an FPGA in a microcontroller. This video is an example of someone putting together a video just so they can claim they uploaded a video to youtube.

I FINALLY got my USB Blaster drivers for my Cyclone II to work on Windows 10.