Don’t get it twisted, I’m always on the side of gamers, and I always think that we should strive for the best localization possible. But I also think that we’re shooting ourselves in the foot when we finally get a fantastic turn based retro RPG and people boycott it based upon some very nitpicky things. We’ve got to choose our battles, And 505 Games did say that they’re going to fix localization. But I’ve played the entire game and I really didn’t notice any glaring issues.

I think most of the complaints come from the fact that the localizer company (one person in particular) has basically come out and said that they deliberately changed dialogue to accommodate a "modern audience" in the west. This kind of patronization towards Japanese developed games waters down the experience and takes creative liberties with what the creators originally intended. I think this is a trend we are seeing in the west when Japanese games are localized and that is why people are up in arms.

The “come over and toss my salad any day of the week” translation took me out. 😂😂😂

I’ll always support consumer rights. If you don’t want something in a product or service do not support it. I’ve played the game and it didn’t bother me personally. However the localization is political. Fortunately it is only a handful of times. One of the lead translators Brian Gray in an interview came out and said that Japanese games are sexist and outright admits it was changed for ideological reasons. That’s definitely something no small number of people do not want. Id lose respect for them if they didn’t boycott as that what a mindless consumer does.

Obligatory “This guy are sick.” comment

Idk about the worst, but in the GBA port of Tales of Phantasia, “Ragnarok” was somehow mistranslated as “Kangaroo”. (Apparently Microsoft spell check was the culprit.)

Breath of Fire has some pretty bad translations from what I've heard/seen.

Spoony bard for the win

I think this stems from how big anime has become, in the anime community people see it has distorting the original authors work

I just came here, as someone who knows Japanese and English, to say that some of the proposed alternate translations you showed off are worse and much further off than the official ones, especially Francesca. She is absolutely using rude language, but Japanese doesn't even have "curse words" in the same sense as English does. Several of the others have also added or removed words as well, despite claiming to be closer. I'm not here to say that the official English version is good or bad in a vaccuum for a game I've only played for a couple hours, just to point out that many of these people trying to claim that it is bad are not presenting faithful arguments to those of you who do not know Japanese, and in some cases are just flat out worse translations.

What I don't like is when they change the personality of some of the characters.

I understand changing jokes, idioms, etc around because they wouldn’t make sense in English. I just think that the things that can be translated 1 to 1 should be

as someone who has worked in translation and localization for nearly a decade, i understand your points but the people complaining about the issues with localization make many valid points, too. i often see people say that the changes made are required because the script needs to "punched up" et al, but they don't seem to realize this implies that the original script is boring. similarly, there are many localizers who lean far too hard into creative freedom and, in the case of games like Unicorn Overlord, mischaracterize characters, misinterpret scenes or bring in Working Designs tier changes to the original script. the examples you provided in the tweet are a good example; they're kind of haha funny until you realize that they are essentially a vandalization of someone else's art.

Why are people saying "well if they're complaining about this then they haven't played/watched X". That is a terrible mentality to have, why can't you ask for better instead of settling for mediocrity. The localization could have been a lot better and acknowledging that doesn't mean you hate the game now, it just means you want a better localization for (hopefully) the sequel

People complaining on Twitter? No... I don't believe it. That's new.

Here's a bit of context as to who the localizers are and why you've got people who are irked by them (myself included) They're 8-4 (I think they're on par with Gaijinworks/Working Design in terms of accuracy, but to each their own), who are rather infamous for taking liberties with their translation, often times adding things like character traits that aren't in the original JP script (Xenoblade X, Unicorn Overlord, etc) , gilding the lily, so to speak. Now, a deeper look into what they've done, they were in charge of Gunvolt 1's script, while it was used for the game's initial release, the company that made the game, Inti Creates, scrapped it and resorted to having their in house translator to redo the work for the newer port releases, citing inaccuracies to the script and 8-4 was put on a tighter leash for Gunvolt 2, subsequent Gunvolt sequel translations were handled by Inti Creates in house and not by 8-4. Game 2, Gotta Protectors, a fantasy game, which was done by 8-4's Brian Gray, he added a line that isn't in the original, a line that breaks the 4th wall and is about anime tropes (80s and anime guys looking asian and white), ergo ruining the immersion and flow of story. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if he's also in charge of Eiyuden's chud line and Lian's dialogue. Game 3, Vanillaware's Unicorn Overlord. Skills with wrong effect descriptions that an avid JRPG player with middling JP knowledge could get right. Omitting details in world building e.g. the angels being arbitrators of God in a prayer, which the game later sets up by having an angel join the party. I've been told on good authority that the JP devs weren't too happy about 8-4's involvement, as it wasn't their usual inhouse Atlus translator that they would get assigned to. Now, my point of contention, as someone who plays with original JP audio on and knows what is being spoken, while taking it as an opportunity to better my language skill on the side. It is jarring to see lines that are so far off kilter than what is being spoken. You'll think to yourself "hey, that wasn't the intended meaning of said line" or "couldn't they have translated it that way instead?" and by that, I don't mean proverbs or puns that would get lost in translation, but rather basic lines. You may argue, it's a small line, no biggie, but you'd also have to understand, that minor things while small, they pile up and ultimately changes the character as a whole. Say, a catchphrase that was added in, it's now built in as a character quirk. Essentially, a fan fiction by that point. Now for the next part, both of Unicorn Overlord and Eiyuden's English script served as the basis for the European scripts (French, German, etc), so any alterations to characters are also present in those languages, which makes it more or less, a game of Chinese whispers. Incidentally, the Chinese scripts for both games are accurate and faithful to their JP contemporary. Now, another gripe I have with localizers like 8-4, as someone residing in Asia, is that when they're translating games over, rather than accommodating most of the English speaking world, they limit it to the USA, as evident with the chud line. Not sure what going on with their minds with terms like that and dated memes, but it'll just fly right off the heads of non-Americans. Truth be told, I think it is a disservice to their audience, as it isn't the definitive experience the devs intended for the players. E.g. Square Enix toning down a villain's dialogue in Triangle Strategy to make it 'safe', whereby the guy looks down on women. So, instead of letting players punish the evildoers for that, they'd rather cut lines out to cater to Western societal norms and sensibilities. At the end of the day, you'd have to ask someone, are you actually playing the same game? Is it truly a Japanese game when there's game alterations to tickle the Western palate? Apologies, if this is long winded, now you get to analyze and dissect this train of thought that's been on my mind for a long while now.

First off, im mostly happy with the game...and I agree attacking localization and localizers in a general and insulting way is just poor behavior. However...I think its equally poor how a localizer thinks they have any right whatsoever to change story and characters they did not create. Yes, there are things not easily translated, and yes some things dont come across in a straght translation like they should ...but the personalities of the characters, especially during the beginning is altered and this sets the tone for the game. Think of the words you used in this video for Lian: "...to give her a bit more personality" surely, David you dont think a localizer has a right to make that judgement over the original artist?! I know you probably dont mean it that way...but it shouldn't even be a thought. Examples of poor translations in the past are not a good excuse for it. We are in an unprecedented period of translated work all over media. I look at the superb Geofront translations for Trails...and even they are not perfect always...but respect for the artist is important. In the end, I dont have a problen with what you are saying here, but the publisher has responded and im satisfied they understand the problem.

I'm so glad I'm going for the physical version, because it'll be nearly a month. Hopefully we get those patches and the fixed localization.

Localizations are designed to make the game consumable for the audience its being distributed to, but im a jrpg fan. I love jrpgs because they're from japan and not the west. So i usually prefer translations with maybe a few altercations made to make it flow better while reading. Localizations tend to change too much and insert things for the sake of "spicing" things up and to add flair. They change the way characters are portrayed, like in here Lian comes off as a lot more annoying and rude in english than she does in japanese. I just want the original writing intact without any extra fluff the localizers deemed necessary to "localize" the game for the west. I like jrpgs because they are japanese rpgs. Just my two cents.

I appreciate your content and been following you for a whole and share many of your viewpoints, but injecting modern US politics into a Japanese fantasy game seems out of place. With the game's setting and global audience in mind, it's clear that such commentary doesn't resonate with a significant portion of players considering USA only makes up less than 4.3% of the world population and only a fraction of of this 4.3% care about this USA politics . This isn't merely a translation oversight; it appears deliberate, potentially overshadowing the developer's original vision for the game. Additionally, "chud" carries derogatory connotations, which further complicates matters. While I'm glad efforts are underway to rectify the translation, the intentional insertion of unrelated political themes done purposely and maliciously remains concerning.

When we were playing this last night, my husband and I were actually taking note of this. He and I are playing with the Japanese audio, because he prefers their voices. Well I'm studying Japanese, and there were a few times I was like "whoa, that's not what they said!" The one that got me the most was how Kogen calls Nowa "aniki", and that doesn't mean "cousin" that means "big brother". I get what they were going for and I'm okay with how they wrote it. And another one that made me go "what?!" was when meeting Yusuke and he calls himself a "desperado" in English. He's one of those well-meaning but harsh-appearing street thugs found in a lot of Japanese media, and I really think he is inspired by the anime Yu Yu Hakusho or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure. There really isn't a word that works in English for what he is. So... why not? Let him call himself a desperado if he wants. *shrug* I noticed the "fartface" and the other self-censorship, and I really didn't care. It's silly, but maybe they didn't want a M rating for too much swearing? maybe it's a throwback to when we couldn't really get away with swearing in English titles as this game plays like it was pulled right out of the early PSX era? But honestly the localization doesn't bother me as a whole. As long as the text is consistent throughout, and the script matches what the story is doing, I'm okay with it. The game is so fun that the changes in the English script really don't have that big of an impact. It's like people just wanna be nit-picky just to be nit-picky.

5:12 I think part of the confusion is, the rest of that stuff is just there for context. The only real thing being complained about there is the "rub-a-dub-dub" line, which appears to be a meme insertion (referring to the infamous itadakimasu -> "rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub" joke translation) 7:20 That line there ("chronic case of stupidity") doesn't actually make any sense in the context of the scene. Rather than a line that sounds like she is picking her rant back up after beating them up a bit (like in the Japanese), it sounds like she is just continuing the rant from before, but it doesn't even really follow from her previous line. It's a pretty common symptom of translators/editors working on text in a spreadsheet without any idea or care for what is actually happening in-game. They likely didn't have any notes explicitly telling them there's a break in the scene there, and instead of first actually viewing the scene for context so they know what they're translating/editing, or taking cues from the Japanese (which hinted at that), they just replaced the line with whatever. 8:04 The complaint here is about the insertion of the word "chud". Just like you, most people don't know what it means, since it's some insular, partisan internet slang that doesn't actually belong here. If she just said "*sigh* Another muscle-brain.", or even just "Muscle-brain.", it would be an accurate localization. They also mistranslated a bunch of system text as is usual these days, but at least that can be patched later with minimal effort. Changing lines with voice acting attached to them is much more problematic. Basically, if they would do mostly the same job, but without inserting memes and juvenile nonsense and changing things at random, it would likely be a great localization. They're like 90% of the way there. Like imagine you have the most delicious seven-layer cake in the world, but someone decided to spread cough syrup as one layer. "Stop adding cough syrup to cakes" is hardly an unreasonable request, but they seem determined to keep doing it because they feel it is the correct way to perform their jobs. It's still possible to enjoy the cake despite this, but should one really have to?

For me here is the thing i dont think that the translation being bad calls for boycotts of the game but on the other side it is an issue and whenever people call it out they are being called toxic and whatnot as a Japanese speaker whenever i read the English translation i do physically cringe i just wish they didnt insert all these cringey jokes it gives characters a whole other tone from the Japanese character

One part of the translation i came across which I think it's bad is when the game introduces hero attack which is the same as Suikoden's Union attack. In the Japanese dub, The MC replied "It's because I trust you" but in the english text and dub he said "It just comes to me like a snap of a finger." "it's that simple". Another one is when you want to recruit Kowata, in the english text he wants you to hunt 3 Wild Boar hides. Which led me to hunt boars but they never drop any items the next hour. I went back to him to see what I read wrong. But no, i just need to kill 3 boars in general. Pretty sure there are lots of misused creative liberties the localization did. Again, those are some problems coming from me personally. As for the English voice acting, I am glad they gave a Japanese option.

Don't side with these localizers. A lot of fans, not just in gaming but also in anime had been fed up with them changing translations and adding their woke agendas here and there that we're not intended by the original creators. Or do you support those agendas?

Completely disagree "not a big deal" is not an argument, if you are not doing your job properly then you aren't doing your job properly. At my translation job people would get in trouble if I change things. The part of "more personality" is also false. Personality can't be measured therefore it can't be said there is more of it. If I have a friend who makes jokes all the time and one who doesn't it doesn't mean one friend has more personality than the other. It means they are different people.

Michael Jordan once said “Republicans buy sneakers too”. We are in a time where America is quite divided. So, when I turn on a game after walking 13 miles a day, 5 to 6 days a week, rain or shine, etc… (I’m a mailman and I was in the Army), I don’t want to see current day in my game. Now, I honestly didn’t mind most of what you showed us. I’ve been playing RPGs since FF: Mystic Quest (Yes, I am the one person that MQ actually got into RPGs. 😂). So, I know of translation liberties, but when use words like chud, gentlewolves, schlub and assuming a gender… Those things can take a person out of it. So, chud in the US is slag for someone on the right side of politics/Trump supporter. Do Trump supporters not play RPGs too? Gentlewolves? Is there anything wrong with saying gentlemen? Now, if there is a werewolf character on the screen then whatever, but if not then why? Makes no sense. “Rub a dud dub, open ya Schlub” just makes my eyes roll. I personally like Open Sesame. It’s a phrase from Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves. A classic tale. And now the last one. The one I may be crucified for. Assuming the gender. Did that really need to be in there? I mean maybe there was nothing nefarious behind the change, but why change it then. It was a monster, you defeated it and you move on. No one after being in a fight is going to question gender. Refer back up to where I said I was in the Army. Most people don’t really care what gender you are. You do you. We are just trying to live the one life we are given. These few instances take us out of the fantasy realm that we are trying to live in when we play this game. Just keep the translation closer to the original and not leaning to any one side. I’m a right leaning person, but I also don’t want a game negative towards the left. All in all this was another great episode. Keep up the great work.

The thing is when you have the majority of fans saying to stop fucking with the translation and just translate it and THEY DONT LISTEN FOR DECADES. It’s mad fucking annoying. On top of that we don’t give a fuck about the translators sense of humor we want the creators sense of humor and that’s it

As someone who speaks multiple languages, every time I've ever had to translate something I have to make difficult split second decisions about what to change. There's literally no way to directly translate everything between two languages, even languages that are very close, like English and Italian/German/etc. For Japanese, which is a completely different language family, it's monumentally harder. It doesn't matter which path you take, if you go more literal, you lose the context for cultural nuance and translated idioms become complete nonsense. If you are more liberal, cultural nuance can be tainted by the translator's own cultural experiences and lose relevance and locally equivalent idioms may not convey the same meanings as the originals. There's no way to make everyone happy in this field. It's all about balance, so I'm glad the devs realize there could be improvements here and are willing to tweak them.

That Lufia screenshot! 😂 I agree with your original Tweet and your sentiments, David. Some of the Lian lines, I get the frustration, but others it’s just a matter of trying to capture the energetic way she talks in Japanese.

The only problem I have with this game is the weird and severe Depth of Field blur. You can only turn it off on the PC version.

David: "I feel like people are kind of shooting themselves in the foot." Localization: "I feel like people are kind of shitting themselves in the wood"

The localizers shouldn't be changing personalities to characters just because they feel like it or downplay profanity for specific characters, they should always be upheld to a higher standard. Also, other languages usually take the source from the English rather than the Japanese, I don't want to be playing a game that was sanitized because of American sensibilities. Regarding the word "Chud", it's a highly politicized term constantly used by leftists against anyone they dislike, usually people from the right wing, and it's a severely used in ironic discussions. This term came from people who listen to Chapo Trap House, that used to be a very popular leftist podcast until one of the hosts there was accused of grooming a teenager. Playing a fantasy game and reading that will take anyone's suspension of disbelief, it's insane how anyone allowed this to happen in the first place.

I wanted to say I like your videos but I feel this one is kinda one sided. Because one hand these are not that bad but one the other side with journalist and localization some of them are not helping by saying I can do whatever I want. Also the treehouse localization for fire emblem fates was pretty bad

A friend and I discussed an anime movie that was R rated for theaters in the U.S., but for Japanese viewers, was rated for teenagers despite the gore in the anime movie (Demon Slayer: Mugen arc, for reference). I understand changing curse words is a "Your mileage may vary" by country situation, however, I still feel like this creates situations like this, where critical assumptions can be made based upon the translation. Personally? It depends on how something is conveyed, and I feel a lot of these are geared towards the language in which they are created. It has always been an incredibly convoluted topic, creating such a divide between individuals, and it baffles me.

Hey David, although i'm seeing a bit of a overraction to some of these prints I saw one that they used the term "sus". I don't think that this should be in the game, it kinda breaks the immersion for me reminding about Among Us memes in a fantastical Japanese RPG.

I totally think some people are blowing this out of proportion. Sometimes the original dialogue can be bland and stoic, so adding some flavor to the text and injecting some personality isn't a big deal to me. As long as it doesn't affect/change the story or flip the original personality of a character on its head, it doesn't bother me. I think Eiyuden Chronicle is a fantastic game and I'd hate for it to get buried by bad reviews just based on the westernization of the dialogue, when the game has so much more to offer than that. Also it can't be easy giving distinct personalities to over 100 playable characters, so I'm sure the localization team tried the best they could. Plus as you said they're going to fix some of the more glaring examples within the dialogue, problem solved as far as I'm concerned.

It's great news that there are revisions to the localised script in the menu, thanks for bringing that to my attention, though where did you find that post? I want to see it for myself.

The over the top negativety isnt surprising. Somehow the current raised-on-the-internet generation has gotten away with treating other humans inhumanely on the internet, behind their keyboard, all their lives without any repercussions.

Honestly as dumb as it sounds, I think the hate for the localization originated from the "You sure it's a he?" line early in the game. The overwhelming complaint is that the localization is woke. Thats the most woke line I've encountered so far and its sooo minor and probably wasn't even intended to be commentary on gender at all. I do also think the hate comes from a smaller company producing a popular game. The localization seems really good to me. I think farthead fits with the humor they are going with. It's goofy. Now the bugs on release on the other hand...Thankfully they are fixed for the most part now lol.

I definitely get the mindset of wanting more direct translations and not to mess with the source material, but the problem is that many things don’t carry over well in direct translations and sometimes lead to either awkward or just flat out boring text. Sometimes creative liberties do need to be taken here, but it’s a fine line of what’s too much and not too much, making it impossible to please everyone Granted it’s an anime but one of my favorite examples of this is Yu Yu Hakusho. It’s one of the very rare instances where the dub is almost unanimously preferred over the sub by the community. They gave characters like Yusuke way more of a personality which a lot of people seemed to like over how he was depicted in the original Japanese version. I guess when it works and people like the changes all is good, but when they don’t like the changes this is when you see the backlash

Lian is easily my favorite character in the game so far and I don't get how people hate her. She's a bit thirsty for Nowa, she's a bit cringe at times because of that, and she also loves to start some harmless drama (Some of the lines when we reach Nowa's hometown for instance). People are suggesting that she doesn't fit the tone of the game or that she's dismissive/disrespectful of Nowa who's both her commander and the player surrogate, but I mean, it's all harmless fun. As someone who enlisted directly after 9/11, thirsty women in the middle of a war are frequently funny, awkward, and cringe all rolled in one when trying to flirt.

Don't know if you did it on purpose but you literally skipped over the most controversial of them all, the already infamous "you sure it's a he?" when the original simply stated " what the hell was that thing"? Or the complete change in personality in Nowa when he meets his aunt - kind and enthusiastic in Japanese, bored and uninterested in English. It's this little things that make you doubt about the whole product

>a bit more personality (with regard to Lian) So this is something I do see as a bit of a problem... as a localizer, you really shouldn't try to change a demur character into the total opposite of that.

Man this translation make Megaman battle network 4 translation looked tamed lol

I'm still in the "early" game, like 18 hours in, and Francesca is HANDS DOWN my favorite character so far. Her vacillating between the virtuous, pure white mage with the bareknuckle brawler, foul-mouthed reactions has me literally laughing out loud. And whoever the voice actor is did a hell of a job. 😂😂🤣

I rather they stick to the creator's vision than try and recreate the characters. They can make their own fucking game with those characters. I want the actual translation

I honestly was extremely excited for this game, and I don't mind whacky/goofy translations, errors, etc. it happens. I literally had to put this game down after about 3 hours, in Redtooth Ridge. I cannot STAND Mellore. My fiancée was complaining too. Goofy localization, fine. Minor translation errors, fine. "MAGICAL CUTIE SUPER JUSTICE HAMMER!" "MAGICAL CUTIE MISSILE!" "HEHEHE I'M A MAGICAL GIRL" is so, SO annoying. I just can't do it.

Maaaan, my copy's in limbo. Here's hoping I get it soon. The 'chud' term has more weight to it, these days (I still don't really follow what it means, lol). People are a bit more on edge due to the scripts being in the hands of localizers trying to add their own personal 'message' into the game. Nothing that has anything to do with the game, but some selfish nonsense from whomever has the power to do so. While I understand the anger of many concerning current localization, I personally don't think it's EVERYONE, and it certainly doesn't mean that people ahould be attacking everyone the way they are. People tend to take things too far, unfortunately. I have no problems with localizations when done right- given that initial translations from Japanese-to-English script are pretty bland or 'to-the-point,' I can understand giving characters a bit of flavor or personality to their lines, like what I've see herewith the Lian lines. With that in mind, I'd rather keep whatever I'm playing free of any political mess that the situation, plot, or story of the game has nothing to do with. Everyone has an opinion. I don't even mind the 'farthead' line, lol.

i think what people are upset about is that the Japanese translation may sound a little bit more down to earth whereas the english is trying to shift the dynamics of the text to a more family friendly audience. probably to sell to a bigger demographic/ comply with a T rating instead of an M. persona games pull no punches and are all rated M where creative liberties were taken but not at the expense of personalities for the characters.

1:08 - I forgot about the 'in front of a children' line that Mathiu says in the first Suikoden. You know how sometimes you get a line of dialogue in a game that is a mistranslation, but becomes so famous that they put it in every remake (like 'I Garland will knock you all down')? Yeah, this only happens because of mistranslations, folks.

I love the funny localization text in older games. I remember running into an Austin Powers reference in a dungeon in Lunar silver star story.

The taking out of swear words and replacing them is changing the character’s personality. I don’t feel it’s worth the level of outrage that it has caused as maybe it was an attempt to keep the T rating. But I’m just guessing on that. It is I feel a big change and it’s a change on how the original artist made the character. So I understand why people aren’t happy. But I feel it’s all overblown as well.

I’m loving this game, never really cared for the localization but I would’ve loved Francesca more if they kept her vulgarity 😂

I will say that all of the Lian translations were fine, but the Francesca dialogue made me physically cringe, I kind of wish they had kept her Japanese dialogue, it kind of reminds me of Kaine from Nier. One question I have about these examples, are they story related, or will you only see them if they are in your party? Anyways, I backed the game so I am kind of stuck with it, I will just hold off on playing it to see if they fix some of these translations.

Looks like mostly flavour and comic relief to me. No big deal. I think it's only a problem if the localisation really goes against the spirit and themes of the original. Localisation is important because you can never have a 1:1 translation that will sound right, the languages are too fundamentally different.

I haven't had any issues with the localization. I consider myself very lucky to be playing a spiritual successor to Suikoden in 2024. I hope it does well so that they have a bigger budget for the follow-up and it ends up becoming the next Suikoden 2.

I think its more about the fact the lians character is subtly changed the character with all of the changes as a whole added together Giving the character more personality is changing the character

I don't think the translation is bad either. Some of it I even find amusing. I'm all for better translations as well but much of this is just folks being nitpicky. Cool to see the devs are fixing it regardless though.

I think it’s easy to say that this issue isn’t a big deal because the localisation isn’t that bad or adds flavour. And that’s fine if you enjoy the game that way then enjoy the game. The point still stands tho that the localisers changed intent meaning and characterisation throughout the game and disregarded the developers intent. I think it’s sad that in many cases we never get too know the originally intended character or scene in game and disgusting that localisers think they have the right to do that, not to mention this particular localiser has previous for openly stating he did this kind of thing. If they do fix it though and bring it far closer to the original then I will buy it. If enough people do it could be a serious step towards better localisation in the future with respect for the source.

I'm playing this game now.... this is what everyone is complaining about? Do they not realize half the curses don't exist in Japanese? Most of the excessive "cursing" in Japanese doesn't translate 100% in english at all lol. That's just fans of 90s anime who had to use fan translations are used to. God forbid they actually played ANY of the Suikoden games before.

Not getting a game for something this petty is ridiculous. The internet is just doing its usual stupid thing. Hopefully not too many people will actually be swayed by it. As a JRPG and anime fan since the 90s, it has often bothered me that people just have no idea what localization is for. It is not for precise, literal translation. (In fact I would argue that most translation work shouldn't be literal, whether it is for localization or not) Localization is to present a foreign piece of media to people in a way that makes sense to the culture being localized into. It is for getting across the work's meaning in an easily understood manner that does not disrupt the flow of the work. Literal translation is counter to that purpose, and results in stilted dialog that doesn't flow naturally in the language being translated to. Rewriting dialog to make it sound like what a native English speaker might say is exactly what localization is for. And native English speakers generally do not use the same phrasing and expressiveness as a native Japanese speaker. For instance, Nia's dialog in Japanese seems unremarkably cheerful when literally translated, but to a Japanese person, it would convey a sense of brash hyperactivity. So rewriting her dialog to express that nature more obviously in English is called GOOD localization, not bad! I'm not saying everything in this game is localized well, but this is far from the first time I've seen fans of Japanese media get their undies in a knot over some pointless translation oddity.

I think the real issue, and I agree on that, it's changing character personalities. Also translators inserting random things that not only are not there on the original script but also being out of place. And of course I'm not asking for a literal translation, word for word but there should be some ethnic to the original content, and IF the translator think they can improve by adding stuff, they should go the route of FFXII and Vagrant Story and along the team beforehand.

The problem with trying to judge criticism is that a good localization cannot be a direct translation because direct translations don't often carry the same actual implications or meaning. Some of the Japanese examples may have had a different meaning in their own cultural context. Something that sounds polite in a direct English translation might not be polite in Japanese if they didn't use the correct polite 'keigo' word forms, for example. Idioms and jokes, especially puns, also frequently need to be re-written without including a paragraph about why the joke/idiom works in the original language. So the question is which is it - is the localization actually bad, or are people just failing to understand that translation and localization are not the same, or is it some mix of both?

I'm so sick of localizers taking liberties and embellishing the original scripts. When they do this we are not experiencing what the developers and writers intended. It upsets me further due to Murayama's unfortunate passing and that he was never able to see its release. Localization industry needs to change, they need to respect the work!

I dont ever expect a perfect translation, do hate miss spelling and such however there are games with translations so bad you cant complete the story.

The localization don’t bother me. But Lian annoyed me, so she was kicked out of my party first chance I got and I never looked back. 🤣

i agree with you, however, this hatred of anything except exact 1 to 1 literal translations is not new. it's been around since the 90s. working designs famously got a lot of hate for adding a lot of jokes and personality to their localizations (lunar 1 and 2 for example). i loved their translations, but many people hated them, because they were japanese purists, they're the type that think it's heresy to watch a dub of an anime and only watch it with subtitles. so you can't please everyone. if they had gone for a literal translation they'd be disappointing everyone who loves the suikoden series but who isn't a japanophile. like nowadays if anything these fringe hardliners have softened, they no longer think ted woolsey is the devil, whereas they used to hate his ff4 and ff6 translations because they strayed so far from the japanese. so i'm not surprised by this negativity, but you have to realize that these people complaining are just a vocal minority. the majority of people who played the game liked the personality they added to Lian, etc., the majority of changes were improvements. i think that's exactly the thing though. when you worship japanese culture, you can't believe it can possibly be improved upon by a translation. but i always wonder, if these people love japanese so much, why not just learn japanese and play it in japanese? are they too lazy to do that? plus, literal translations of games tend to be boring, if they actually got what they wanted, they'd hate it. i remember in the early 2000s some fans fan-translated ff4 for the snes extremely literally and released it as a rom patch, i tried it out and it was the most boring dialogue i've ever read.

For me the only one I´ve seen that I didn´t like, that people are throwing around, is the joke about assuming the rune golem´s gender, not because of the content of the joke, just the fact that they made the joke in the 1st place, in the original language, Nowa says something like "we did it" and Mio said "what was that?" to wich Hildi explains that its a rune golem and that he served as a guardian to the primal lense, in the localisation Mio makes the "how do you know it´s a he?" joke, wich makes it look like Hildi just started an exposition dump out of nowere, that´s my real problem with that specific one. I have seen others that made me roll my eyes a bit but nothing too major.

😂 Your tweet is on point! My introduction to RPGs was well-meaning but bad translations (ff legend 1/2, final fantasy 4) and super heavy-handed “localization” (thine dragon warrior 1, ser erdrick). So like you said we’ve come a long way.

David I know you're gay hell I'm bi but one of the characters literally stops the story to talk about having gay relationships with men when the original dialogue was about how he thought dresses look really nice on wonrn.

I stumbeled over two translations that felt awkward. The rest is fine and I have a lot of fun with this game.

I really love your channel so don't take this as an attack or anything of the sort, this is just me expressing my experience and feelings so far with the translation of this game. First of all, I can understand some japanese and I always play with the japanese dub. When people say that the translation is fine I immediately assume that they play with the english dub and don't have any japanese knowledge whatsoever. JRPGs translations tend to embelish the way that characters speak and sometimes go so far as change their personality in major ways. So far the main victim in this game for me is Lian, who has been changed to be really annoying, dumb and cringy character, and if you don't believe me, use a translation software on the japanese text to see it for yourself. Another major complaint for me is the very unprofessional feel that the dialogue have, and I say that as a non native english speaker. Some skills just have plain wrong descriptions or mislead you on what their effect is purely based on poor grammar. There are many examples of minor choices that adds up in the end, like in the tutorials menus the text refers to your items as "stuff", which makes anyone who is already discontent even more apprehensive of the quality of this translation. And I'm not even gonna delve into the horrible internet lingo like "chuds", this should not have been into a fantasy medieval rpg period, it just breaks the immersion. My point is, don't discredit the consumer who isn't happy about the quality of a product they bought, we have the rights to voice our discontent. That said, I am very much enjoying this game and I'm really sad that we as fans have to engage in such stupid conversations such as these instead of sharing builds and thoughts about the characters, story and such. Let's just be polite, listen to each side of the argument and not dismiss the people we disagree with saying "hurr durr you are just a whiny troll" or "if you are fine with this translation you are a chill".

Mistakes in translations are fine, they can happen, sometimes they even can be funny and in ok with that. These are no mistakes though, these are intentional changes to the script made from localizers who care first and foremost about injecting their worldview into the game instead of giving people a faithful and proper translation, and this, this I'm not ok with.

This is the world today David. People won't be please by anything. Keyboard scholars gave Unicorn Overlord crap over the kind of language used. In English they localized it to language closer to when there were fiefdoms in Western Europe. There are localizers who do somethings where they intentionally change the intent of the author. What you cited here is nothing like that. People are ignorant and don't understand how translations and localization works. Languages are not 1 to 1. There will be some variance. As long as the author's intent is relayed, then the localization is faithful.

Also as someone who has a fan translation team, it has given me a different perspective on this. The job isn't easy and they have people constantly overlooking and checking this. I wonder what changes will 505 make to the translation as these aren't that bad. If it is just fixing mistranslations and typos then I have no problems with that.

english localization isnt bad. it good. i think the problem is the translators are trying to include their own politics. but over reacting and saying that we should boycott the game is also bad.

After playing a few hours, the translation is the least of the issues I'm having with the game... Technical problems (on PC), magic being completely useless, battling requiring no strategy (no point of even doing turn-based, just auto battle for 99% of encounters), etc. I don't even know why we're talking up the turn-based battles. Sure, you CAN do that, but you'll get the same results auto battling anyway. Also have no idea why they made magic completely useless. Reading through older discussions, seems like this was a known problem in the beta but nothing was done to address it.

Albert Odyssey on Saturn had a hilariously bad localization! I also vaguely remember a Wheaties reference and the talking sword speculating on whether another character was taking awhile getting ready due to menstruation. 10/10

I don't think that all of these localizations are an issue for this game specifically. What I do believe is that because of the negative disposition of other localizers(Bastardizers) in the industry. Right now people are hyper vigilant and annoyed with them. It's bad and good at the same time. The whole discourse has been destroyed because of these localizers come off as if they know better and can change whatever they want. This is why people are so nit-picky about minor changes that normally we'd just laugh at and gloss over as a product of its time. What fans of japanese works and media want is the most direct/accurate translation possible now. Localizers have burned that bridge of good will. It'll take a while before it can ever be rebuilt. It's sad, but certain little personality flairs are going to be abandoned for A.I. I can't blame the fans of these works because of how flippant and uncaring these localizers have been. While we may not get that personality anymore. I'd rather a barebones direct translation than for the chance of something slipping through the cracks so someone can be an activist and put their own beliefs into a story thus changing the entirety of the text. We know things like fire emblem have had dialogue portions completely cut out. Not saying that this is comparable to that.

I'm from southeast asia and sometimes i don't understand American slang that they put in games eventhough in Japanese those words isn't slang and that bothers me

I'm waiting after they fix the Switch version before I start the game but I gotta say, I'm kinda into it when they add some personality and take some liberties with the localization like Wokring Designs often did back in the day... Not necessarily a popular opinion, I know but I really like little things like the "Nowa" pun...

I had saw some rumblings about this, but I was waiting to find out the details until one of the level-headed people I follow put up a good video on it. And here it is! :) Thanks for the info.

I have yet to see someone that actually speak the language making these complaints and not relying on DeepL translations to make their point. That itself is the biggest red flag for me that people that are making these arguments don't actually understand languages more than professionals that are paid to do this and don't need an app to be bilingual. Also, some of these that are "direct" translations aren't actually correct or direct. Anytime you see someone adding english curse words to a "direct translation", they are taking liberties themselves, because Japanese doesn't REALLY have curse words. It has rude outbursts of emotion, but not actual curses. The closest thing you have are words you'll still hear middle schoolers use without any discipline.

I don't see the big deal either. I've been so used to random goofy stuff in video games for over 30 years now, I just expect it. Like you, David, I cherish this kind of stuff, it's fun and funny, even if a lot it is cringe. Our lives are enhanced by stuff like "spoony bard" and "X-Men, welcome to die!" with laughter and joy. As long as the localization doesn't make the plot incoherent, I really don't care.

I think the difference between old localization from the SNES and PS1 eras and new/current localization is that in the old days, people were trying to accurately do 1 to 1 translations but not getting it 100% right inadvertently which leads to some funny mistakes but those are coming from a place that honors the original creators. These days it's localizers purposefully making changes to suit their own sense of humor/tastes and changing the original creator's intent because they feel their interpretations are superior. While I usually agree with you, David, i think this is an issue that is bigger than you think. Some of these changes may seem small but they clearly changed the character in those examples. It's not the localizers who created the game, they shouldn't get to change the personality of someone else's characters/stories/work. It may seem petty and small now, but if you let people like this off the hook it will just embolden them to make bigger and bigger changes. While I agree that boycotting the game is harsh, I also think that consumers shouldn't put up with this kind of behavior and companies need better oversight on localizations.

About the "replace them all by AI" comments. Get ready for big families, where everyone has 50 brothers and sisters and some random Gender changes with your additional singular/plural problems in Japanese games. Here an AI translation result (German to English) "Well, then the dog's going crazy in the frying pan!" German speakers will understand it but that's what you get if you replace everyone by AI today.

My only issue From what ive seen, a few characters come off way more rude in english than they do in jp, which can alter your perception of their personality which i don't think is a very good thing lol

I TOTALLY agree with your assessment about the localization. Is it bad? Absolutely! Would I deny myself of playing it because it is so bad? Hell no! I have been waiting 4 years for this game. Even if the game was jammed full of political propaganda (which it is NOT, even though people complain it is) I would STILL play it. Like you said, people are making a mountain out of a molehill. The more upsetting thing to me is most people making these complaints probably wouldn't have even played the game in the first place. They just like to run around and crap on games that they would never play. Misery loves company.

The localization complains are wild to me. Connecting it to US/western politics is...wow, a mega stretch. I wonder how many of these folx complaining are multilingual, because that's literally how translating works. A 1-1 direct translation doesn't always make sense based on context. I suppose if people don't like it they can just play the Japanese version? Also it's wild to me how folx are making statements like how it's disrespectful to the game...do y'all think that the Japanese developers had no say in the localization? Do you think localizers were left to their own devices and didn't work on a larger team? This is how the developers intended for the game to be. English localization has been this way for decades. Take Dragon Ball Z for example - the original Japanese dialogue had a lot of cursing and violent language. The English did not. Didn't like it? Watch the Japanese version with English subtitles. The robot dialogue complaints really made my jaw drop, where. Nowa genders the robot as a male and Mio replies (and accurately so) "How do you know it's a he?" or something along those lines. How is that woke? It's accurate. It's a robot. Robots have no gender. I'm still in awe at the complaints about this localization and, as you said David, the vitriol directed at the developers who worked tirelessly to bring this long awaited game to us. Thankfully these very loud voices are in the minority, so here's to hoping for Eiyuden 2 in the future 🤞🏽

Its more popular to hate on something these days. Folks have been waiting years for a Suikoden successor...just so they can crap on it and tell the world how much they hate it. This is the best era of gaming ever, and folks are more miserable and pissed over the most trivial things.

I have to say, I expected a lot worse considering the commotion over the English translation. Having seen the video and examples now, the drama is a bit of a storm in a teacup. Yes, the translators arguably took a bit too much liberty here and there and deviated maybe a bit too much from the source material, but it is not as horrible as social media makes it seem. While it is good these issues are pointed out by the community, the backlash seems a bit excessive. Translations in other languages are apparently fine.

I don't mind the change of the translations, as long the main story is still understood. People being too picky over this are just missing out on a good game. If minor translation changes make you not want to play a game, just get it on pc and wait for a fan translation patch.

I do not think this game is as great as people say. Its simply put subpar to Suikoden.

If you make it the Internet will complain. But as someone who's been studying Japanese for like the last year and a half just like with anything, nothing is a one-for-one translation and sometimes it's hard to convey something in another language to another language without a lot of it being lost in translation

good job being voice of reason dude, i respect that

I"d like to add that the "correct translations" for Francesca's cursing are simply a choice. She speaks in an angry fashion, yes, but Japanese doesn"t have any word that directly translates to the f-word. Both translations of her foul mouth are acceptable but I would say the "literal" translation actually goes too hard for no reason. Much like with the Unicorn Overlord discourse, this is literally a huge nothing burger, again.

I think you make a good case for your argument regarding the localization and why this game needs to be supported if we want another Suikoden spiritual successor. I had this game wishlisted on steam and was going to buy it but I was turned off by the localization especially the insertion of twitter language into the game. Your review was really positive and I trust your opinion so I'm going to wait for the translation refinements before picking it up personally, glad I subscribed!

It didn't feel like shooting myself in the foot ditching Xenoblade or disregarding the Natsume branch of Harvest Moon-made games, so I don't see any problem here.

I’m sorry, but prose is incredibly important to me in a video game. I often seek out fan translations (Aeon Genesis for example) for games because I feel like more often than not they are better than the official ones - looking at you BoF2. I can’t stand the writing style of this game, and I’m as leftist as they come so it is not for any “anti-woke” reasons. Sadly it’s a big enough issue for me that I can’t stomach the game lol.