I've seen some real brawls in baseball. Not so much in sports like soccer etc.

yeah....

Yes he has, lol,

well regardless of the pace of play mound visits which this actually has nothing to do with, it's always been a rule that if a Coach goes to the mound twice in an inning for the same Pitcher then that's an auto-removal

@@MattZRJSRoxy i think the big thing here is lack of communication more than the rule. Yes, he went to the mound, but it was in the middle of a benches clearing incident. I'm pro umpire, but i think that had they told him that they charged him with a mound visit, this doesn't happen,

Oh yea. King Manfred does everything all by himself. 🤣 Absolute rule and authority to just do whatever he wants huh?

yup, agreed however the pace of play mound visits are different compared to the coach visits however I agree that Umpire discretion should be in effect for both however an Umpire has to rule it before a coach goes to the mound and she actually wasn't entirely correct. She had it flipped; mound visits by a coach do not allow for discretion except for injury checks whereas pace of play visits by players do allow for discretion Quotes will be copied from the rules Rule 5.10(k) to 5.10(l) "(l) Visits to the Mound Requiring a Pitcher’s Removal From the Game A professional league shall adopt the following rule pertaining to the visit of the manager or coach to the pitcher: (1) This rule limits the number of trips a manager or coach may make to any one pitcher in any one inning; (2) A second trip to the same pitcher in the same inning will cause this pitcher’s automatic removal from the game; (3) The manager or coach is prohibited from making a second visit to the mound while the same batter is at bat, but (4) if a pinch-hitter is substituted for this batter, the manager or coach may make a second visit to the mound, but must remove the pitcher from the game. A manager or coach is considered to have concluded his visit to the mound when he leaves the 18-foot circle surrounding the pitcher’s rubber Rule 5.10(l) Comment: A manager or coach shall not be considered to have concluded his visit to the mound if he temporarily leaves the 18-foot circled surrounding the pitcher’s rubber for purposes of notifying the umpire that a double-switch or substitution is being made" (m) Limitation on the Number of Mound Visits Per Game "(1) Mound visits without a pitching change shall be limited to five per team, per nine innings. For any extra-innings played, each team shall be entitled to one additional nonpitching change mound visit per inning. (2) For purposes of this Rule 5.10(m), a manager or coach trip to the mound to meet with the pitcher shall constitute a visit. A player leaving his position to confer with the pitcher, including a pitcher leaving the mound to confer with another player, shall also constitute a visit, regardless of where the visit occurs or the length of the visit. Visits by a manager, coach or player to join a mound visit already in progress shall not constitute an independent visit. In addition, the following shall not constitute visits: (A) Discussions between pitchers and position player(s) that occur between batters in the normal course of play and do not require either the position player(s) or the pitcher to relocate; (B) Visits by position players to the mound solely to clean spikes, provided the player does not confer with the pitcher; (C) Visits to the mound due to an injury or potential injury of the pitcher; (D) Visits by position players to the mound after the announcement of an offensive substitution but prior to a subsequent pitch or play; (E) Visits to the mound by position players that occur during a suspension of play pursuant to an umpire’s call of “Time” (e.g., following an injury to an umpire or player; the presence of a spectator, object, or a member of the grounds crew on the field; a manager's initiation of Replay Review, etc.), provided that the mound visit does not otherwise delay a return to game action; (F) Visits to the mound by position players after a home run, provided that the player returns to his position before the runner crosses home plate; and (G) Visits to the mound by position players during an inning break or pitching change, provided that the mound visit does not prevent the pitcher from complying with any applicable inning break or pitching change time limits. (3) Cross Up in Signs. In the event a team has exhausted its allotment of mound visits in a game (or extra inning) and the home plate umpire determines that the catcher and pitcher did not have a shared understanding of the location or type of pitch that had been signaled by the catcher (otherwise referred to as a “cross up”), the home plate umpire may, upon request of the catcher, allow the catcher to make a brief mound visit. However, any mound visit resulting from a “cross up” prior to a team exhausting its allotted number of visits shall count against a team’s total number of allotted mound visits"

I work for a local newspaper covering sports. I'm on the sidelines for high school football and the communicating between coaches and officials on things like timeouts is important. You hear them tell coaches how many they have left and that's important. I'm sure the coaches appreciate it,

Precisely. It seems the umpires failed to communicate the mound visit to the Twins.

Umpire crew actually misapplied the second visit rule. Don Mattingly concluded his visit to the mound at Dodger stadium and was headed to the dugout when he reversed course and went back to the mound to answer an infielder’s question. Plate umpire Adrian Gonzales was not going to charge a visit but Giants manager Bruce Bochy protested and forced him to enforce the rule. The crew chief Tim McClelland made L.A. bring in a reliever immediately. The rule states the pitcher must pitch to the batter until his at bat is concluded or there is a third out, and then the a reliever is brought in.M.L.B. announced the next day McClelland screwed the rule up.

We like to call that incident Donny Two Trips (The rule was misapplied, but by rule he DID make two trips)

@@sfan2767 plate umpire Adrian Gonzales knew Mattingly had made two visits but he didn’t want to deal with the penalty. Giants manager Bruce Bochy came out and asked Gonzales to enforce the rule. It’s advantageous for the Giants to get a reliever to come in without warming up. By rule the pitcher is out of the game but must pitch to the current batter.

@@rayray4192 Hmm the home plate umpire knowingly wasn't enforcing a rule? I'm skeptical. Of course they did enforce it incorrectly so maybe you're right..

@@sfan2767 a more responsible post on my part is Adrian Gonzales looked like he was going to let the mistake go even though it was a visit because he did not act until Bochy forced him to act. Perhaps he wasn’t watching Mattingly. Speculation on my part so not a good post on my part.

OBR 5.10(m)(2) provides that, among other things, "[d]iscussions between pitchers and position player(s) that occur between batters in the normal course of play and do not require either the position player(s) or the pitcher to relocate" and "[v]isits to the mound by position players that occur during a suspension of play pursuant to an umpire’s call of 'Time' (e.g., following an injury to an umpire or player; the presence of a spectator, object, or a member of the grounds crew on the field; a manager’s initiation of Replay Review, etc.), provided that the mound visit does not otherwise delay a return to game action" do not count as mound visits. The key point here that these exceptions are for position players only, not coaches.

@@TroyVan6654 See it as special league rules. Baseball isn't this big over here and in the lower levels you often have player coaches. So if the coach is SS at the same time does it count as an visit or a half visit or no visit? So we just stick to common sense and spirit of the rule

Presumably the umpires would intervene and not allow the coach or manager to get there.

Oh boy, lol,

Not sure the rule, but it should be similar to the rule for visiting twice during the same batter. The manager is ejected and the pitcher is required to finish their required batters and then is automatically removed.

@@sfan2767 why would the manager be ejected?

@@kinkaid7477 If the manager does a second visit during a single batter they are ejected. I'm extending the logic to this situation where a mound visit is not permitted.

You can visit the same pitcher four times with the same batter hitting in Fed. ball. Fourth visit he has to be removed.

lmfao I caught that too!

I had to run that back. Genius.

All i heard was "My team sucks so I'm gonna reach for anything I can to discredit the best team in baseball"

2017 World Series Champion Houston Astros. They are the only thing that will ever matter in MLB. Forever more. It's the gift that keeps giving.

cant

The umpires cannot ignore a rule they disagree with. MLB needs to modify the rule.

Communication would have solved the whole thing. Clarify the visit with Baldelli after it’s declared, or, when the pitching coach starts toward the mound, ask him if he’s sure he wants to take the visit because it will necessitate a pitching change. Not hard to do and it saves a world of trouble.

@@davej3781 I can't imagine Dusty Baker would have said a word to any of the umpires if they didn't call it a mound visit.

@@alanhess9306 I would argue we see umpires "ignore" rules all the time, they're just very obscure or obsolete ones, so know one even realizes or complains, this would be one of those times where I think that should have happened.

correct, it might not be a popular rule but they have to go according to the rules as written

I would think eventually the team would get a yellow card for delay of game if they kept doing it.

@vincentwendt720 eventually, if the ref feels they are intentionally delaying a game, they would most likely get a yellow card

Amen.

the umps didnt let them know because THEY SUCK .Cant call balls and strikes correctly and cause all these issues because they think they are Gods ...

It is his job to know the rules the umpire SHOULD NOT have to remind him.

@@63076topher I think good umpiring includes good communication - especially in unusual circumstances. This was a very unusual circumstance. You are correct - by the letter of the law the umpire is not obligated to tell the managers anything. He only has to let the official scorer know that was a mound visit. But I think a good umpire understands that this is a very unusual circumstance and this is a fairly new rule and most likely neither manager has ever seen this enforced. I think a good umpire realizes that it's in everyone's best interests to over communicate and let them know that was a mound visit.

@@theburnetts this isn't a new rule, it's ALWAYS been a rule that 2 mound visits from a coach to the SAME Pitcher in the SAME inning requires an auto-removal however I agree that they should've communicated that better

A 1-1 count that hit him middle thigh, that's below the knee on everyone else in the league

MLB abolished protested games in 2019

No since A, MLB hates egg on face, it never took them seriously and B, the amount of mess ups, there would be a protest every game.

sadly no since the rules are what they are. MLB can discipline Umpires if they feel that they violated the rules but they did nothing wrong regarding the rules since they followed the rules however they should've had better communication with Rocco

@@MattZRJSRoxy For sure. I just meant in general. I recall one game where the umpire almost seemed to antagonize a player, then throw him out for speaking out.

Umpires don't write any of the rules, but are expected to enforce all of them.

Or the rule book as it was in 1984. We need those pine tar rules 😂😂

@@austin.draude I’d gladly give up the pine tar rules and go back to putting all pitchers in the box pre-dh.

@@wesnall6796 Well there is that 😏 we can add the pine tar rules back as an after-the-fact rewrite 🙃

as for the visits, no, doesn't appear so. This is taken from the rule book that's been posted to the MLB website "Rule 5.10(l) Comment: If the manager or coach goes to the catcher or infielder and that player then goes to the mound or the pitcher comes to him at his position before there is an intervening play (a pitch or other play) that will be the same as the manager or coach going to the mound. Any attempt to evade or circumvent this rule by the manager or coach going to the catcher or an infielder and then that player going to the mound to confer with the pitcher shall constitute a trip to the mound. If the coach goes to the mound and removes a pitcher and then the manager goes to the mound to talk with the new pitcher, that will constitute one trip to that new pitcher that inning. A manager or coach shall not be considered to have concluded his visit to the mound if he temporarily leaves the 18-foot circle surrounding the pitcher’s rubber for purposes of notifying the umpire that a double-switch or substitution is being made. In a case where a manager has made his first trip to the mound and then returns the second time to the mound in the same inning with the same pitcher in the game and the same batter at bat, after being warned by the umpire that he cannot return to the mound, the manager shall be removed from the game and the pitcher required to pitch to the batter until he is retired or gets on base. After the batter is retired, or becomes a base runner, then this pitcher must be removed from the game. The manager should be notified that his pitcher will be removed from the game after he pitches to one hitter, so he can have a substitute pitcher warmed up. In such circumstance, the substitute pitcher will be allowed as much time to throw preparatory pitches as in the umpire’s judgment circumstances justify. For purposes of this Rule 5.10(l), replacing the pitcher shall constitute one trip to that pitcher that inning, regardless of whether the manager or coach chooses to go to the mound, or whether the pitcher remains in the game at a different position on defense" so in theory even though you could avoid mound visits being charged to you if you don't go to the mound, if an Umpire feels that you are trying to get out of that then they can still charge a visit

Let's look, shall we? "(1) Mound visits without a pitching change shall be limited to five per team, per nine innings. For any extra-innings played, each team shall be entitled to one additional nonpitching change mound visit per inning." " Enforcement of Mound Visit Limits. A manager or coach who crosses the foul line on his way to the mound after his team has exhausted its mound visits must make a pitching change, unless during the at-bat of a substitute pitcher’s first batter, in which case the substitute shall continue to pitch only for the remainder of the at-bat in accordance with Rule 5.10(g). If a manager or coach believes an exception to the mound visit rule applies, he must confer with the umpire prior to crossing the foul line. In circumstances in which a team is forced to make an unintended pitching change by operation of this Rule, and there is no relief pitcher warming up in the bullpen, the manager or coach who violated the Rule by exceeding his team’s allotted number of mound visits shall be subject to ejection from the game. The umpire may allow the substitute pitcher additional time to prepare to enter the game. If a position player makes a visit after his team has exhausted its allotted number of mound visits he may be subject to ejection for failing to return to his position when instructed by the umpire; however, an impermissible visit by a position player shall not require the removal of the pitcher"

I read "potential injury", as used in OBR 5.10(m)(2)(B), as referring to situations where the pitcher *may have been* injured, but it's not apparent one way or the other and you have to go to the mound to check. Preventing injuries that may occur in the future does not count.

You sir , are correct!! Any info to the pitcher from the bench can be considered a trip!! To get really nitt picky ,,,, a coach giving signs to the catcher for a pitch, can be a trip !

they don't have to inform anyone other than the official scorer but really they should have

There is nothing between the Astros and Sanchez. The chirping was coming from Sanchez and the Astros dugout, typical of what you get when your star player gets plunked. You could see Altuve tell him from 1B "I didn't say anything".

The fact that ANYBODY really reacted to a pitch that was BELOW the waist and BARELY grazed the uniform tells me that MLB has too many "sawft" individuals involved.

Home runs are dead balls too. Your proposal means that a mound visit after F1 gives up a dinger isn't counted.

@@teebob21 , not the same. Of course the hr is deadball and a visit. The confrontation is a different delay, not a scoring play resulting in a deadball situation. It is at the discretion of the umpire to determine.

Found the Astros fan.

Yea but I think since the Astros and altuve were involved, people would go the extra mile to side with the opposing team. 1:23 open bias lol.

it's a trip to the mound by a coach or Manager, sadly that's all it takes per the rules BUT they should get more discretion in strange cases like that

Yeah I was thinking this was what he was up once he knew what was going on.

Wouldn't the new pitcher have been allowed as much time as necessary to warm up anyway, since it was an emergency substitution? _Confer_ OBR 5.10(l) Comment (upon the second coaching mound visit during the same plate appearance (thereby requiring a pitching change), "the substitute pitcher will be allowed as much time to throw preparatory pitches as in the umpire’s judgment circumstances justify").

It's not the job of the umpires to teach the rules to managers.

Lots of people who "know baseball" think it's a stupid rule.

Yes, she did, I guess she hasn't gotten over it.

well the 2 per inning limit only applies to Coaches, not to the players but teams only get 5 mound visits per game generally

@@MattZRJSRoxy I know. I just mean if the manager wants to go out 5 times in the first and use all of his visits then he should be able to. The opposing manager certainly wouldn’t complain. 1 per pitcher per inning made sense when that was the only limit

they have nothing to do with the rules, that's a MLB thing however Umpires call the strike zone generally however they see it

Manfred is in baseball's way.

Umpires are not supposed to be babysitters the managers have rule books maybe they should read them

If you think you get away with that, give it a try and let us know how it works out. But I think you'll find any consultation between coach/pitcher or position player/pitcher that requires either to relocate from the dugout or their position is considered a "mound visit".

@@mph7282 it’s a joke. Chill.

@@danbradley9754 I get that. My response was more a general comment based on the discussion about Baldelli technically stepping on the mound dirt or exactly what he said to Sanchez, and just what's frankly a pretty poor breakdown by CCS of this, in general. Baldelli went out to consult with his pitcher in multiple ways. What he said really doesn't matter. It's really kind of silly to suggest that it shouldn't be a mound visit.

By the way, a rule is a rule... The umpire only follows the rule...

It's not about being , on the mound. It's about coaching . You don't have to go to the mound , to be charged with a trip to the mound.