Ejection 189 - Manny Gonzalez ejects Derek Shelton after replay's base touching appeal play overturn

Рет қаралды 55,202

2 жыл бұрын

1B Umpire Manny Gonzalez ejected Pirates manager Derek Shelton for arguing a replay review reversal of 2B Umpire Randy Rosenberg's out call on Reds runner Jonathan India. Report: www.closecallsports.com/2021/...
The play concerns Official Baseball Rule 5.06(b)(1) regarding base touching and passing a base, which may also be found in the MLB Umpire Manual: "A runner is considered to have passed a base if they have both feet on the ground beyond the back edge of the base or beyond the edge of the base in the direction in which they are advancing."
Pittsburgh's allegation in appealing to Rosenberg was that India failed to properly touch second base while advancing to third base: specifically, that India passed second base, then in a state of confusion, "un-passed" second base by stepping behind the base on the first-base side, and then passed second base again, but failed to legally touch second base on this second pass or last time by.
Replay Review overturned Rosenberg's out call on appeal based on baserunner India having not "unpassed" second base when placing his left foot on the first base side of the bag: the MLBUM interpretation states BOTH FEET must be on the ground, and only one foot was on the ground on the side of the base to which Pittsburgh alleged India to have passed (or "unpassed").
Also, umpires, stop doing the flicking of the wrist or similar gestures on top of a stop sign warning. And, coaches/managers, stop doing the backing away while chirping act. It takes two to tango, and two definitely did here.
This is the final ejection of the 2021 MLB regular season.

Пікірлер: 113

@davidrivera9743 2 жыл бұрын

Stupid ejection deserves its own sound effect.

@mrdoubleu8016 2 жыл бұрын

what a year for these absolutely absurd plays! cheers to next one!

@kevindavis8175 2 жыл бұрын

It’s surprising to me that the MLB waited until 2022 to implement where the crew chief was mic’d up to explain the ruling. I’d think they’d put that into place when replay started. But to quote Close Call Sports, I digress.

@FactsMatter 2 жыл бұрын

The “turn around and go” was unnecessary, but Manny was within his rights to eject as soon as Shelton left the dugout to argue a replay decision. So I’ll give Manny a pass for this one.

@atomicfox8869 2 жыл бұрын

I happened to catch this game live....was waiting for your video, and you happened to miss probably the most important part and didn't address the commentators who ABSOLUTELY, lose their minds, over the fact that they had no information on what was going on. They were literally angry and frustrated that they were getting no information on what was happening. They were begging for the Ump's to be mic'd, how simple it would be, given all the other audio they're provided. Was really hoping you would comment on that, if it's reasonable, something that might happen, what impact that may have for both fans, spectators and the benches. Missed a golden opportunity on that one.

@Joe_Okey 2 жыл бұрын

Well, the umps are mic'd up now and it is so much better now as a result.

@caras2004 2 жыл бұрын

That's the most energy that has came from the Pirates manager all season.

@MrMaelstrom07 2 жыл бұрын

It would have been so awesome: pitcher on rubber, "PLAY", pitcher steps off calmly to throw to 2nd, R3 sprints toward home. They call "out" at 2nd then on replay call him safe. Run scores.

@jersdream 2 жыл бұрын

If they were properly coached, you could have easily had India score here during the confusion on the actual appeal

@vonskyme9133 2 жыл бұрын

The umpires would then place him back on third though, as without the inaccurate call there is no doubt he would be put out at home, meaning that to rectify that mistake they will award bases as they see fit. Edit: it is, though, a lovely little thought experiment which would be hilarious to have seen untangled.

@sirme1798 2 жыл бұрын

@@vonskyme9133 You'll love this then. Look up "A's protest game after call at first" (couldn't copy and paste link :-( )

@vonskyme9133 2 жыл бұрын

@@sirme1798 that... that was a thing of beauty Sir. I am in your debt. For those wondering what it was, a coach on the offense called for a replay because he believed his runner was out, thus removing a force and letting his runner score. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jdOTe8iQxJ_Plo0.html

@vonskyme9133 2 жыл бұрын

@@davej3781 if the first appeal had not occurred I may agree with you, but in this case it would be extremely clear the runner only ran for home precisely because of the erroneous call - he didn't run the first time and they're allowed to take whatever steps they see as necessary to nullify the error. They could, in theory, even rule that without that call he would have gotten out at home if he tried it and only got there due to the head start knowing what the call was going to be and rule him out at both second and home, but I suspect that's too far a leap.

@richarddavis9895 2 жыл бұрын

Announcers be like “if we had NFL type explanations”. Or in other words, announcers admit they don’t know the rules either.

@Subangelis 2 жыл бұрын

And here I am watching a KZfaq video, and as soon as I saw India's left foot go backwards, I knew what the issue was.

@bobcarp1239 2 жыл бұрын

What if the Reds realized that he DID miss the base. Then while time was out, the runner, who knew he missed the bag, went back to second and told the runner on second to return to first "Cuz I missed second." Then when time was back in the runners are on the correct bags...?

@CloseCallSports 2 жыл бұрын

Once time goes out, runners cannot return to touch a missed base that occurred while the ball was live (e.g., you CAN go back to retouch your previous base during a HR or other ball-out-of-play situation like a ball bouncing over the wall, but you CAN'T go back to retouch in a situation like this one with India if time is called after the play ends).

@bobcarp1239 2 жыл бұрын

@@CloseCallSports Thank you.

@peterpoyer4332 2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't matter once time is called.

@freezer8530 Жыл бұрын

@@davej3781 Rule 5.06(a)/5.06(c) Comment: If a runner legally acquires title to a base, and the pitcher assumes his pitching position, the runner may not return to a previously occupied base.

@sethlang7974 2 жыл бұрын

That fact that the xfl had the best review system should make the big three feel bad

@mbdg6810 2 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@truthillinois6397 Жыл бұрын

That call cost Pittsburgh the World Series

@roymauler 2 жыл бұрын

You get the feeling that a group of umpires could make a plan for getting lunch and it wouldn't come off right.

@donaldthomas7070 2 жыл бұрын

It appears the 2B ump is following the ball to make sure it's fair, to make sure whether it's caught on the fly or not, & probably to make sure he sees anything that might be an issue on the throw. For a few seconds, his (presumably proper) mechanics & focus takes him away from the runner, who may be outside of his peripheral vision. He may then assume (I know, never assume because if you do, you may make an ass out of u & me-this incident being an example thereof) that the appeal is made because the defense saw something obvious.

@robertbrown7470 Жыл бұрын

I think the problem was the runner took a step backwards off second base and then went to third without retouching the base. Seriously doubt that a MLB umpire is going to guess at whether he touched the base or not. If he retreated towards first base, and then missed second on his way to third, I would think that is out on appeal. Could be even clearer in that situation, say he actually started retreating towards first base, no question, then cuts across in front of second base, not even close to second base and heads to third base. No difference really. He doesn't touch second on his second time around.

@ronpeacock9939 2 жыл бұрын

Shelton... arguing replay overturned calls have a quicker hook than arguing ball/strikes.... read the rulebook... I can understand questioning the ruling.. as in asking why.. beyond that.. these guys didn't make the call, the guys inNY did... give it up.

@r.a.contrerasma8578 2 жыл бұрын

Was this ump's Rosenberg (sp?) first call-up? Never heard name before.

@arleyhaskell7241 2 жыл бұрын

Shows how needlessly technical alot of baseball rules are.

@JPINFV 2 жыл бұрын

I think there needs to be a literal line in the sand when determining when a runner passes a base or not. Having said that, a runner resetting their feet to start running to the next bag is far from the intent of the rule being applied here. The runner at no point tried to return to 1st base after acquiring 2nd base.

@DavidLopez-nw4ch 2 жыл бұрын

Girl is back 😩😩😩

@tonyrock1983 2 жыл бұрын

It's situations like this that show MLB umpires (or at least the crew chief) need to be mic'd up. Explain what the call was on the field and what the challenge is. Also what review (NY) shows.

@darinlegore284 2 жыл бұрын

Why do these guys come out on field arguing a call made/overruled in NYC replay? They negotiate and have to know this is coming! Review in off season with union & MLB!!

@SlideStep_ 2 жыл бұрын

They want an explanation

@darinlegore284 2 жыл бұрын

@@SlideStep_ yes, but they know there cannot/will not be one, get waved off and then the expected mandatory ejection. They need to hash this out in MLB HQ in off season. Too many preventable staged ejections. Maybe MLB can give a word or two like: OVERTURNED; STAYED WITH CALL ON FIELD-NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE,; CALL UPHELD ON REPLAY EVIDENCE.

@rayh592 2 жыл бұрын

There should be a large fine attached to arguing a review. Something in the range of one month salary and a suspension to go with it.

@robertbrown7470 Жыл бұрын

@@SlideStep_ Do we know the manager didn't get an explanation or just didn't like the reasoning?

@robertbrown7470 Жыл бұрын

@@rayh592 I think you have a good point.

@robertbrown7470 Жыл бұрын

The announcer in this video starting about 3:20 explains what the question is.

@tubes-lut 2 жыл бұрын

The runners should have returned during the timeout confusion just to make it a bit more muddled

@alanhess9306 Жыл бұрын

Once a runner touches a base and time is called, he cannot return to a previous base.

@fredapeeples6619 2 жыл бұрын

Jomboy has got nothing on you. Kudos.

@jimyeats 2 жыл бұрын

I think Shorsey is narrating these videos.

@almostfm 2 жыл бұрын

70 years ago, we'd have wondered if Shelton had booked an early train back home.

@totallykoolyeah 2 жыл бұрын

Dinner reservations

@a_badali 2 жыл бұрын

4:14 manager starts singing "If I Were A Rich Man"

@SLC-Smudge42 2 жыл бұрын

Great analysis Gil

@peterpoyer4332 2 жыл бұрын

Ump made a poor call, NY got it right. What's bothersome is not missing a call you didn't see, but calling something you didn't see. I don't know if the defense talked him into it, but you simply can't make a call that didn't happen at this level. The manager got more than enough time and I understand ejecting him, but the umps also need to stop with the condescending gestures, especially after they made a mistake. Walk the manager back, talk to him and tell him that's it. The flippant gestures are the equivalent of showing an ump up.

@dean_604 2 жыл бұрын

What a refreshing point of view to hear on this channel. There's enough opportunity to side with the officials on the close calls we don't need justification on such a clear blunder. You can't call what you don't see. Period. It's better to admit you missed something than pull some call out of your @$$ when everyone knows you're wrong. Especially when the whole world saw it on a big screen. I have great respect for the officials who give managers a long leash after an obvious blown call. For those who continue to have their god complex that won't allow them to admit fault I hope they enjoy an extended off season.

@robertbrown7470 Жыл бұрын

We don't know why the umpire called him, for sure, but the good money would be on the runner taking a step backwards off second and then moving forward fails to touch the base. That would be my bet. He's not going to guess at whether the runner touched second the first time and in any case, he was standing on second. Have to assume the umpire saw that. He is not going to call what he can't see.

@mitchfitz4259 10 ай бұрын

The Angel Hernandez school.

@ronveri2838 2 жыл бұрын

HE IS STANDING ON THE BASE......HOW CAN THEY SAY HE DIDNT TOUCH IT?????

@markthompson2874 2 жыл бұрын

When he stepped back, if both feet touch the ground on the first base side of second, he has to retouch it on his way to third. At that point, the runner would be officially between 1st and 2nd. Replay ruled only one foot.

@TeemoQuinton 2 жыл бұрын

@@markthompson2874 Because they're stupid

@jeffbruce2568 2 жыл бұрын

I like the Bucs manager. Last game and he is fighting for his players. No wonder the players have kept playing hard for him. They like and respect him. Terrible call by ump.

@baileyduvall01 2 жыл бұрын

Pirates?

@bigpoppa1234 2 жыл бұрын

Runner never actually got "both feet" beyond the back edge (ie, the 3B side of the 2B bag) as per the rule to consider him passing the base, until he took off from 2nd. The trailing foot (the one that hit the bag second) stays on the 1B side the whole time until it moves over as part of his running motion to 3rd, and obviously he got to 3rd no issue and never turned around so this should have been quick, simple review. At 1:50 is the best view of the umpire who made the call, he doesn't even look like he's watching the player/bag, so how he makes that call is beyond me. Umpires making guesses frustrates me in all sports more than making a bad call (barring egregious emotional "screw you" type deliberate bad calls). The review process is stupid. Leave the field umpires out of it except at the start to explain the situation, have them go into their own booth to do so not out on the field. Get the guys in the offsite review booth on camera and on mic, have them run through, figure out the situation, make the call. Umpires explain to the players on the field & the crowd on a mic, the managers pick up the phone and get walked through by the review booth operators. A manager who comes out with obvious intent to complain until an ejection, then continue to complain should be heavily fined. Prevent managers from coming out of the dugouts after reviews, with an instant ejections + 25k fine if they come out to the umpires at any point after to complain about it, and get on with the game.

@danielhetue6968 Жыл бұрын

It looked as if Derek Shelton had seen enough of this crap in the 2021 season. He deserved getting ejected on the last day of the season considering how awful and frustrating the Pirates’ season was.

@MATTZ_WRLD Жыл бұрын

the funny thing is i know mr derek lee shelton his daughter gianna puchi shelton goes to my school i got a friend named manny ima have them reanact that

@VisibilityFoggy 2 жыл бұрын

Haha please bring back the Money's Worth sound effect for next season!

@j51969 2 жыл бұрын

I'm obviously not an MLB umpire so take second guessing these elections with a grain of salt. IMO once the coach started backing up, he should have just turned around and went to his bag.

@TheHitKing4256 2 жыл бұрын

Do not agree with the toss! Petty…..

@alanhess9306 Жыл бұрын

You know the ejection is mandatory when a manager argues a video review, don't you?

@strikehold 2 жыл бұрын

Has a call that has been reviewed ever been reversed after the offended manager argues?... Managers or players should not be allowed to argue, they should be allowed to ask for a clarification but not argue. Fine them if they refuse to leave after being ejected and start ejecting the next "manager up".

@TeemoQuinton 2 жыл бұрын

I recall something like that happening once where both teams called for a review on a play, it gets overturned in one teams favor the other team orders a review and it gets called in their favor.

@ricardogonzales4729 2 жыл бұрын

Fair Call Runner never retreated back to 1ST base and his intentions was to take 3rd base after Standing on 2nd base. Play Ball.

@epifunny1 Жыл бұрын

NO; let's just say it for what it was: the Umpire was trying to look smarter than he really was, by making a call out of euphemistic "left field". Sad that Umpires feel this way.

@robertbrown7470 Жыл бұрын

Nope. Guess again.

@chriscoccagna5917 2 жыл бұрын

Can we get a final number of how many " get his $$$$'s worth" this year ???

@GaIeforce 2 жыл бұрын

Gonna guess there isnt one yet because the playoffs havent started yet.

@pavanatanaya 2 жыл бұрын

Gonzales should have walked him over to the third base line and calmed things down. It was his mistake after all that created the mess.

@zachreese6540 2 жыл бұрын

The manager is an adult. Don't think he needs a babysitter walking him away. It's pretty clear that he wanted to get tossed as soon as the replay decision was made. This also isn't as clear cut as the video made it out to be.

@pavanatanaya 2 жыл бұрын

@@zachreese6540 For Gonzalez to have made that call, he must have seen irrefutable evidence. That it was overturned, proved that not only was he wrong, but that he had to answer for making that kind of judgement. Maybe Shelton wanted to get ejected so he could appeal and have MLB look at a spurious call more closely.

@stephenbeck7222 2 жыл бұрын

Dave J his right foot was never on the 1B side of the base once he makes contact with the base. The diagram in the rule book seems pretty clear to me.

@zachreese6540 2 жыл бұрын

@@pavanatanaya Gonzalez is not the umpire who made either call. Rosenberg was the 2nd base umpire who made the original determination. The overturned decision was from the replay officials.

@peterpoyer4332 2 жыл бұрын

@@davej3781 You're incorrect if you read the rules.

@Downsouthroots 2 жыл бұрын

I just don't see why everyone wants the umpires to explain it to the fans? Just screwing up baseball that much more..

@kylemori4946 2 жыл бұрын

I thought the lady that commentates these videos said the explanation was complicated. She never explained the video.

@binky8501 2 жыл бұрын

He stomped on the base..it's pretty obvious

@jeremypepin481 2 жыл бұрын

Bad call, bad ejection, bad all around. There’s no excuses here

@alanhess9306 7 ай бұрын

More clueless announcers. There are many, many rules they don't know.

@T.J.Caldwell318 Жыл бұрын

Manny Gonzalez is a horrible umpire

@1mansopinion966 2 жыл бұрын

Baseball season to long, players overpaid and rules almost as bad as golf

@TeemoQuinton 2 жыл бұрын

Well that 2b umpire has no right to be in the league after that.

@MrMaelstrom07 2 жыл бұрын

"Turn around and go" completely unnecessary.

@dougthegreat1808 2 жыл бұрын

Perhaps the Pirates manager not only got ejected but career ejected for good......

@dougthegreat1808 2 жыл бұрын

@@davej3781 I concur........

@dougthegreat1808 2 жыл бұрын

@@davej3781 after or when Jeter gets tired of Mattingly, he'll find a job with the Marlins....

@CoachOlsson 2 жыл бұрын

Reading way too far into it. Ump blew the initial call horribly, coach of a garbage team goes out with a bang.

@jakedasnake7703 2 жыл бұрын

Stuff like this just shows how incompetent the umpires really are.

@1NobleGiant 2 жыл бұрын

You're an umpire Jake? They could use your help

@zachreese6540 2 жыл бұрын

I think you should go show them how it's done

@jakedasnake7703 2 жыл бұрын

@@1NobleGiant they really objectively need to hire younger umps. That might help solve the problem. Might not matter anyways sports is scripted anyways lmao

@BigCManMusic 2 жыл бұрын

Please join your local little league organization and umpire since you know your stuff

@jamesrivera6068 2 жыл бұрын

They got the call right

@michaelsmiley15 2 жыл бұрын

Explanations are not needed and throw the rule book out the window because they don't want to use it Force play tag is mandatory when you're trying to get a double play tag 2nd tag 1st he was at least 2' away from the bag at 2nd base therefore no tag therefore safe at 2nd

@TPinesGold 2 жыл бұрын

You're getting colder.