It’s been known that Sig has ‘tested’ their new products on the public for years. They don’t advertise changes/improvements because of litigation such as this. I own an older P229 but won’t ever buy another Sig due to their shady QC testing on the public.

The way they keep up sizing the 365 makes me think they're just gonna eventually release one that's the same size as the 320 and quietly phase out the 320 from their product line.

I said this last year when the p365 Macro came out; the 365 will keep getting larger and the 320 will eventually be phased out of commercial sales. The release of the P365 Fuze this week reaffirms where I think Sig is going with their product line.

I finally got my hands on the original and best model of the P320: the P250.

The trigger redesign was because somehow the engineers didn't know a lesson I was taught my 2nd semester in gunsmithing school. A trigger that is too heavy can overcome the trigger spring under the force of being dropped/struck from behind/limp wristing the slide being racked in my case and in the case of the OG steel trigger mil spec 1911s when the trigger pull weight is reduced via spring manipulation too low. My too low weight was 4.5 pounds on a RIA GI. Sigs trigger redesign was to make the trigger lighter so that they didn't have to make the trigger pull heavy.

I don't think the P320 is an unsafe gun, but I do think the design is less safe than other designs. A good move on Sig's part would have been to use a typical firing pin safety plunger in the slide like most other pistols (Glock, Beretta, CZ) that requires more movement to release the firing pin and to include a trigger safety. Those changes wouldn't have eliminated every problem, but they would have substantially reduced accidental discharges. The existing firing pin safety is shaped like a half moon and doesn't take much pressure to move. But, I'm no gunsmith or expert. However, the P365 has at least one of these changes and has a far better reputation. It's too bad, because the P320 has a lot of well thought out safety features in its design that aren't broadly discussed. There clearly was a lot of thought put into it during the design process and those are overlooked as a result of these two choices.

Watched the video of Sig Shooting you described. Guy was shooting Steel Challenge and had shot 4 of 5 strings. Prior to 5th string he reloaded and then holstered using a blade-tech holster. Gun went off after holster and shooter had raised his hands to surrender.

Who’s gonna tell GBRS Group?

Triggershoe was redesigned to be lighter as the old ones would inertia fire when dropped since sig decided a trigger safety would hurt boomer finger pads thus robbing them of that crisp, short and light 1911 like pull.

The ship has sailed! Everyone hates the way Sig handled the 320 debacle. They basically just claimed everyone was stupid at best and negligent at worst.

I still say toes are over-rated. I cant even see mine anymore. Match one with a Blackhawk SERPA and watch the sparks fly. "Tongue in cheek obviously". I like mt P365's, never shot a 320 but carried a .45 P220 on the street for many years. Still my bedside gun.

X5 is probably most common CO gun in USPSA , at least in my area. I never even heard about any issues with it around me over the last 5-6 years I've been shooting it . And lot of those guns are modified . So I don't believe there's anything wrong with the gun . We will never know exactly what happened with that case

Well, no matter where the root cause is in the end, the perception is to become to truth. Damage has already been done and sig will pay the price. Lawsuit being the smaller piece of it. Hopefully their next design will regain the trust of customers.

The P365 has a secondary notch built into the striker to capture it if it should inadvertently release the striker from the primary sear surfase. This feature is not on the original P320 striker. The inherit flaw in the design is that the striker is held fully cooked, and not cocked by the action of the trigger pull like in a Glock. This is like carrying a 1911 with the hammer back, and no safety other than a firing pin block.

I don't know all the facts of the case, whether it was a pre-upgrade version, or if it was a holster issue, or whatever. I know I trust my 320s (M18 and an X Carry), and make it a point to check the striker block periodically to make sure the spring is good, etc. You know, normal once over, make sure systems are G2G kind of thing. Not sure many others do it, or write down their round counts and keep track, maybe I'm OCD about it? Either way, watching Sig Mechanics videos, keeping an eye on parts and springs, and general safe handling, I'm good. If it doesn't have the thumb safety (like my X carry) I can see it being not as "safe" as other guns because of the lack of trigger dingus, because it has such short take up on the trigger, and it is a wide trigger (sig flat). Also, tests done on adjustable triggers show you can, if you adjust them too far, disengage the striker safety if you're not careful. So, something to look out for. As for Safariland, Sig said in one instance (that i remember) that it was due to the holster (I think it was the minneapolis police video?). Safariland also put out a statement saying there were issues with the holsters. Personally, I stay away from using light bearing holsters because almost every one I've seen is way too wide to allow the light, and as such has way too much room around the trigger guard. With a tabbed trigger it may not be as big a deal, but for a 320? No way.

"doesn't mean it hasn't happened to other people though." Exactly. I've never been struck by lightning, doesn't mean it never happens.

A trigger saftey would be nice touch

I think we are talking about situation when sheriff was holding suspect. Suspect tried to brake free and kick sheriff in holster. Gun fired. And sig told that gun was not seeded properly in holster....

Thanks for updates on this. Just wondering what is your ccw?

The air force issued serpas en masse at one point for the berettas. Eventually people started buying their own safariland holsters and the military just moved over to them, but yeah serpas used to be the only thing we got.

The Trigger upgrade/recall was purely for drop safety, simply lowering the mass so that when dropped on the backplate it doesn't pull the trigger. I don't believe it had anything to do with holsters.

Why is NO ONE giving proper attention to Ben's Wuhan Institute t-shirt!?!?! 😂 Jesus, guys....it's right there.

Best handgun sig makes is the 226 and p365 lines

I’m sure sig has fixed whatever issue may have been there. I think the bigger issue is sig using its first series of guns as a beta test of sorts. Just get your product right then roll it out.

I dont know what to think .

P320 is a less forgiving platform without a manual safety, so holster selection is far more important.

I installed after market triggers, with built in safety on my two P320s and my P365. Have my cake and can eat it too.

Where do I get that shirt?

320s have served me very good still love the platform

I know if there’s any lateral pressure on the slide, the trigger won’t reset. Not sure if that’s related.

I have the 320 with reduced power trigger springs. Wish me luck yall

Good point about the p365. I’ve carried the p320 and p365 and never had a ND

My 320 lives in my Flux Raider. I have not had any instance of it discharging without the trigger being pulled now or before putting it in the chassis. I don’t know what to make of the situation. I’ve only seen one scenario that I don’t have an explanation for. Every other scenario that I’ve read about or seen footage of seems more likely to be an negligent discharge blamed on the 320s internet reputation. I am not defending SIG, this is just my experience and impression

1:24 There was the cop in Texas that almost died after this video came out. His holster was alien gear.

I have a P320RX and my experience is good other than the joys of SIG poor QC. I'm unable to find a description of what the plaintiffs supposedly "proved" the defect was. I have enough knowledge of tort and product liability law to be skeptical until then.

My safari land holster broke just holstering and really sucked because it was the only one that fit my baby eagle.

The ruling basically said that the gun was liable because it did not have a trigger safety like Glock not that it went off by itself. The trigger with no manual safety is extremely light and essentially like carrying a 1911 with no safety

I specifically bought a 365 with the safety

Trigger is one thing, but how frames cracked in the spot around the FCU cutout. Thats a major weakpoint of the frames

Love the Sig 22x series have carried or been issued those for over 30 years. But to me the ten handle named 320 and 365 variants such MEH! I’ll stick to Glocks or M&Ps for striker fired

tbh I think the earlier versions had their design issues and the problems showing up now are largely those older models. However, (imo) the 320 as a platform has kind of hit critical mass with the adoption rate among competitors, professionals, and everyday folks that aren't terminally online. The aftermarket is starting to overtake even the M&P in some areas so It's definitely here to stay. But what do I know? I'm just some guy on the internet.

Personally I love my 320s despite the flak, but I totally get why someone wouldn’t carry one. Wonder if m18/m17s have been in any of the cases since they have the safety

No one really gives a darn, move on my lovely people.

There is a reason the industry standard for a striker fired pistol is a trigger blade

I am not P320 fan, although I do own 2 of them and neither are my EDCs. To my knowledge there has yet to be a case where a P320 negligent discharge has been replicated without the trigger being pulled. While many law suites of this nature are settled out of court, this may preclude all related information being disclosed. However, this seems similar to Toyota's "sudden acceleration" problem that was all over the news. In the end on the back page it was finally stated this never occurred without some secondary cause. There has been a number of engineers and other knowledgeable individuals look at this issue and have yet to produce any findings that point to a flaw in this design. Until I see hard data, the decision of a jury does not prove mechanical failure.

Wonder how Bruce Gray feels?…..

How hard would it be to add a trigger dingus and say it is to address customer concerns and add another layer of safety? Probably won’t effect use and would be cheaper than continued law suits.

Love SIG not loving the unknowns with the P320s

Is Hunter on the board of SiG Lol

Why do i hate sig? Bc i bought theyre romeo x pro optic for my fn 509t bc ut has a dpp plate. Sig states it fits dpp footprint. Romeo x pro instr manual states it fits all dpp footprints and mounting plates. Good rt? Get the optic and it doesnt fit. I email ch prescision bc they have a dpp plate that might work. They tell me it wont bc sig made the romeo x pro recoil lugs too small. Tldr. False advertising convinced me to spend 430$ on a pistol optic

The SIG copium at this point is laughable. M&P's and Glocks aren't having these issues. If they were, given the sheer volume of pistols issued, they'd be in the gun news cycles.

Well the CEO is a usual suspect, doing usual suspect things. Hence the sudden contracts all over the place, and re-fitting most of the military and to a new caliber.

Navyman (Sig as a brand).

A while back, I believe you covered or shared the video of the holstered P320 that went off during an arrest by Montville PD. There were actually two videos of it, one security camera and one police bodycam. Sig put out a statement claiming that the pistol wasn't fully holstered and the retention hood was open. This was thoroughly debunked by KZfaq channel "Smallen Dynamics" who pretty clearly demonstrated that the pistol was fully holstered, retention hood engaged, and what Sig was claiming to be an open retention hood was actually a tourniquet attached to the front of the holster as seen in many other photos of Montville officers' duty belts. Sig is clearly lying about that incident and their false statement is still on their website nearly a year later. If they're going to lie about an incident where nobody even got hurt, what won't they lie about?

Aloha from Hawaii's 2A community 🤙🏽

Have Sig Donate the 320s to the ATF for testing, i bet they will decline the offer.

Is this Phil Straders fault?

Stick with the 200 series of Sig pistols ...

I've seen a lot of them fail. 320 stuff. Their red dots breaking for no reason. Also know a LE Dept that had a Detective with a 320. Gun went off in the holster. This has happened over and over. For that reason alone I would never use one.

Sig is Trash Tier. They deserve to go belly up over the 320/18/17/365 lines. Just complete trash.

Ben, I love my sig but I'm honestly convinced their design is indeed bad. I finally caved in and decided to add a trigger safety onto daily carry gun, a good solid holster to go with it. Just to add, i think the guy you saw who had his gun blown out. Did he do a custom trigger job? Because I think that might have caused the accidental discharge.

This has been going on for years and people will still cope and buy/carry the p320. It’s a garbage pistol and everyone knows it. Firearms safety rules are pretty uncompromising yet we allow (culturally) for this pistol to be used for duty/carry purposes when it’s shown it’s unsafe. It literally goes off on its own. Unacceptable given all the other great options on the market that don’t have these problems.

Subsequent remedial measures are generally inadmissible to prove negligence. They may only be used to impeach - such as feasibility of precautionary measures.

This product liability case (Lang v. Sig) has issues: 1) Plaintiff was never able to identify the problem. 2) Plaintiff was never able to replicate the problem. 3) Plaintiff was never to able to explain the mechanics of the problem. 4) Plaintiff's original complaint stated the proof that his P320 went off while fully seated and retained in his holster was there was a bullet hole at the bottom tip of the holster. There's only one small problem . . . he was using an OPEN END holster. 5) If you read the Jury's decision, their rationale for blaming Sig was the P320 trigger shoe lacked a trigger safety. This emerged out of nowhere, and contradicts the original complaint. 6) This all started when the Plaintiff decided to remove his kydex 4:00 IWB holster with the fully loaded gun still inside it. This is very awkward and unusual, he had to first loosen his belt, and I can easily imagine him fumbling the holster/gun combo during this event.

#SIGNADE

The gungis video is sus. The video and pictures show his shirt creeping into his holster. He has all the runs except the one where it goes off. I believe that he described the gun going off when he raised his hands to the surrender position. Shirt in holster + surrender position is a loosing equation if the shirt intruded into the trigger area.

I don’t trust Sig.

It doesn't matter to me bc I just don't like the 320s in general

Here's my two cents. I have been and still use the Sig M18 in matches. My local club has weekly fun matches. Me, along with 3 other people use M18s. All no older than a year.... So far, no NDs and we have been using them for a while. The other people are all seniors. We all have manual safeties. All of us have different holsters, regardless re-holstering is done slowly and deliberately. I can't speak for everyone but my experience with the P320 has been positive. I have about 1500 rounds so far on it and it's been great.

Sounds like officers need to wear a second body cam which full time monitors their holsters..

People can F up a rock given a little time.

If you've ever taken a Sig P320 trigger apart you'll understand why it's not possible to shoot without pressing the trigger.

The Sig deal is so hard for me to figure out. I have listened to arguments from well studied people on both sides of the issue. The only takeaway I have been able to make is to stay away from any new models or new generations of existing models when they first come out. It seems like Sig does not engage in enough field testing before releasing a new model or generation of an existing model. The only Sig I own is the P365. I have owned it about 8 months and ran several hundred rounds through it of various brands, bullet types, bullet weights, and even some of my own handloads. It has shot everything that I fed it without a single issue. On the other hand I know people who have had issues with the first gen of the P365. I don't have the answer.

Not that any company should get a free pass, but no one who values their gun rights should be cheering this jury verdict against SIG. Especially if you have been paying attention to various lawsuits that the DOJ / Gun control groups bring up against firearms manufacturers. And the point isn't always to win, but rather to bankrupt the companies through the legal process. It's also how the gov't justifies stupid "safety" mechanisms. Magazine safety, micro stamping, loaded chamber indicators, biometric unlocks, ridiculous trigger weights, etc. If you live in a free state, God bless. Some of us don't want more companies to tank and more useless "features" mandated.

Wait a minute! Doesn’t the U.S. Military use Serpa holsters? Or at least, they did. And now they’re issued a variant of the Sig P320. So I say fu€k it! Stick a P320 in a Serpa holster modified for appendix carry and call it a day. Talk about living life in the fast lane! 😂

Why is it that 573 KZfaq channels all posted about the newest Sig product within a 15 minute timeline on KZfaq? They pay off more guntubers than Soros does politicians… Oh,shoot, was that my outside voice?

The amount of pure stupid in Ben’s comment sections is crazy! It’s always the one who doesn’t shoot much (if at all) that has the most to say. If you don’t shoot much and or have no basic understanding of how a p320 functions how do you form an opinion? For every good KZfaq video there are 10 bs videos.. People reviewing and giving their opinions on guns know they understand nothing. It’s sad really.

Here first?

P320s are as safe and reliable as any Glock. Plus better triggers, sights and grip. There's a whole of unhinged Glock fanboys on a massive misinformation campaign because of 2 reasons. 1- Sig beat glock for the military contract 2- P365 was the top selling pistol of 2023. That's some pretty big L's for emotionally unstable fanatics to try and deal with.

I don't and have never carried a sig in my entire life.

I’ve seen some P 365 failures in classes.

Alien Gear sucks!