Gary, thanks for the feedback and compliment. Cheers, Kevin

George, thank you for the nice compliment. Cheers, Kevin.

You're welcome and thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear you found the information helpful. Cheers, Kevin

Brandee, thanks for the feedback and compliment on the video. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the nice compliment. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks Rick for the nice and thoughtful comment. Glad you found the video informative and useful. Looking forward to seeing some of your trains running again soon. Cheers, Kevin

Thank you for the feedback. Glad to hear you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

Mike, thank you for the feedback. Glad to hear you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

Thank you for the feedback. Cheers, Kevin

Thank you. Glad to hear you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the nice compliments on the video. Cheers, Kevin

Wow. Bruce, thank you very much for the really nice compliment. Cheers, Kevin

Thank you for the nice compliment. I'm glad to hear that you found this video useful. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear you found the information helpful and that the timing worked out well for you. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the compliment. Glad to hear you liked the video. Cheers, Kevin

Dan, glad to hear you found the video helpful. The Joint Line layout is still the same, but the Pennsy switching layout is coming along nicely. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the feedback. Glad you liked this video. Cheers, Kevin.

Actually the point rail does remain powered. When the point rail touches the stock rail it becomes powered. The jumper you mentioned is still a good idea and will prevent the point from becoming unpowered if paint, dirt, or something prevents the point from electrically contacting the stock rail. Glad you found the video informative. Cheers, Kevin

You're welcome. Cheers, Kevin

SP Ghost, thanks for the very nice compliments and feedback on my videos. Glad to hear you're finding them informative and useful. Cheers, Kevin

George, thanks for the feedback. Cheers, Kevin

John, thanks for the feedback on the video. Glad you found the information useful. Cheers, Kevin

You're very welcome. Cheers, Kevin.

Tony, thanks for the nice compliment on my video. Cheers, Kevin

Thats ok Kevin i now fully understand , i am going to use insulfrogs as they will match my Kato turnouts , i run large american SD70S AND SD60S with long wheelbase .

George, thanks for the feedback. Glad to hear you found this useful. Cheers, Kevin

Scale Model Trains & Colorado's Joint Line cheers buddy

Glad you liked the video. Cheers, Kevin

You're welcome. Glad you found this video useful. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks Joe. Glad to hear you found the information useful. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the information. That's similar to how I wire all mine as well. Cheers, Kevin

Thank you for the feedback. Cheers, Kevin

Michele, you're welcome. I'm glad to hear you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the nice compliment on the video. Cheers, Kevin

Thank you. Cheers, Kevin

Thank you for the feedback. Glad to hear you found this video useful. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the information on your switch control. Glad the Peco switches and control mechanism are working out for you. Cheers, Kevin

That's a great 'point'. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks. Glad you found the information useful. Cheers, Kevin

Ron, thanks for the feedback ans suggestion for a future video. Cheers, Kevin

I am a beginner and so my question is, don't instructions come with the turnouts which would answer your questions?

Thank you. Cheers, Kevin.

You're welcome. Cheers, Kevin

Thank you.

Thanks for the feedback and for subscribing to my channel. I've personally never experienced any problems with my engines or control system because of any of the shorts. Most modern control systems, whether DC or DCC, have short protection built in. Generally if they detect a short they will cut power to the rails. Both types are excellent. Additionally, Peco has now started producing what they call a "Uni-Frog". It is effectively an Insul-Frog out of the box, but the frog can be powered like an Electo-Frog if you need a powered frog. I've gotten a few of these in HOn3 and they work great. However, I'm not sure they have made these yet for their entire line of switches and crossings. Hope this helps.

Also where he says "guard rails"... in England we call them "check rails" and the English term is probably correct because none of you foreigners can speak (nor spell) our language properly only joking but it's true 😂😁😀

Peco Turnouts do have a spring in them that keeps the points pushed firmly against the stock rails. Cheers, Kevin

Thank you for the compliments on my video. As far as your crossover it is had to say. One thing it might be is that your upgraded power box is allowing the power to arc just a bit farther and that's causing the short. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin.

@@Modeltrains that's a great place to start looking. Thank you so much!! Keep up the great work!!

Bob, thank you for the compliments and feedback on my video. I use code 83 track because it is closer to scale than code 100 track is (though even code 83 is over sized for most prototype rail). Most, if not all, engines and cars made in the last 20 years will run on code 83 track. Prior to that, some cars and engines had larger flanges that wouldn't run smoothly on code 83 track. In my opinion, if you're running newer cars and engines, code 83 track will perform just as well as code 100 track and I think it looks better. So that's why I chose code 83. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin.

@@Modeltrains OK, I now remember the flange issue. As I'm literally starting from scratch, I will use 83 due to the looks. I have an MRC Prodigy Advanced2 system on order, along with an Athearn UP SD70ACe Salute to UP with the veterans salute also. Now I need to get some rail and build my platform. Thanks for the detailed reply, and BTW, I've already liked and subbed. Cheers, Bob

You're welcome. Glad you found the video useful. Cheers, Kevin

I bought them at House of Trains in Omaha Nebraska. Cheers, Kevin

Steven, welcome to the hobby. I'd recommend Peco Insulafrog switches if you're just starting. They are very reliable, offer smooth running, simple to wire, and work with either DC or DCC without any modifications. You can see at the end of this video I'm running a small 4-axle switcher through a Peco Insulafrog switch and it is nice an smooth without any problems. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin

Had to tell, but I'd start by making sure the rails leading to the frog are electrically isolated. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks so much Kevin, love all your videos very informative, thanks for taking the time for us all.

Agree. Cheers, Kevin

Both the Peco Insulfrog and Electrofrog are excellent switches and are DC and DCC ready straight from the package. The potential for a short only occurs if a wheel set is out of gauge, derailed, or something else that would cause a piece of metal to contact the two closure rails at the same time. On my current layout I have only Peco Insulfrog switches and they all work great and this short very rarely happens. Cheers, Kevin

Scale Model Trains & Colorado's Joint Line same for me ho and n scale layouts

With an electofrog switch you have to power the isolated frog and rails separately. This section has to change polarity based upon which way the switch is thrown. Cheers, Kevin

thanks Geoff

No, I didn't cover reverse loops in this video. There are lots of special wiring considerations, such as reverse loops, that need to be considered when building a layout. This video was not intended to cover how to wire your layout, but rather focused on the differences in powered and non-powered frog switches. Either can be used with reverse loops as long as you understand the wiring and power routing differences between them. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the reply. Okay I stand corrected but using the insulating frog I thought would make it easier in that respect.

Paul, it is very hard to troubleshoot electrical problems from afar, but here goes. Is is just one engine, all smaller engines on one specific switch, or the same smaller engines on all of your switches? That might help you narrow down whether you should be looking at a problem with your switches or a problem with your engines. It could be that the wires for the all-wheel pickups in the engine are disconnected so only some wheels are picking up power. It could also be that either the switch points, closure rails are not powered. If your switches have a small hing on them (like the Peco ones in the video) between the switch points and the closure rail, sometimes the electrical connection at that hing isn't very good. That will lead to the entire length of the closure rail being unpowered on an insulated frog switch--that's a pretty long stretch. You might need to run a jumper from the stock rail to the closure rail. However, if you have powered frogs, then the wiring is a bit different to ensure all the various rails are powered. Try to narrow down exactly where the wheels are on the switch when it does have power, and when it doesn't have power. That will help you figure out what type of problem to start trouble shooting. Additionally if the switch points are only powered through their contact with the stock rail (most switches are like this), then any paint, glue, ballast, dust, etc between the switch point and stock rail when closed will impede electricity flowing from the stock rail to the switch point. Again, if that's the case you can have a really long section of unpowered rail. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin

Ian, I haven't ever asked anyone from Peco that question, but I would imagine it is because the change makes the switch more complicated to wire. Also, depending on what engines someone is running, they might not see any benefit from the modification. But, I'm just speculating here. Cheers, Kevin.

It is really personal preference as to which turnout to use as they both work really well. However, if I was to recommend one over the other it would be the Insulfrog version. They are a little bit easier to wire than the Electrofrog versions and for most all applications work just as well. Hope this helps. Cheers, Kevin.

Matt, Peco makes code 100 switches. You might want to try them. Cheers, Kevin

Thanks for the feedback and compliments on the video. Cheers, Kevin

You're correct that having engines with either all wheel pick up or at least pick up from multiple wheels on at least two trucks will greatly improve performance when going through switches with insulated frogs. Additionally, having flywheels in your engine will help carry them through any small interruptions in power pick up. However, even with all wheel pick up there are still occasions when an engine can momentarily loose power when going through an insulated frog switch. Especially if the engine is equipped with a sound DCC decoder. It shouldn't happen since both sets of wheels aren't above the insulated frog at the same time, but it does happen sometimes. I've see it lots of times on various layouts over the years--with long wheelbase engines with all wheel pick up. Even on my Colorado Joint Line layout, which uses all Peco code 83 Insulfrog switches, occasionally a sound equipped engine will get just enough of a change in power pickup going through the switch that the sound will cut out for an instant, or even turn off the sound and then begin starting up again. It doesn't happen often, but every couple months one of my engines will cut out just momentarily as it goes over the switch. Cheers, Kevin

It is interesting that you mentioned the sound interruption, that alone tells me that your problem is NOT mechanical, i.e. insulated frogs, but an electrical problem. There are 2 possibilities: 1) You are over loading your power pack or 2) The wires in your loco are "original" gauge. I looked at a couple of my locos and found that the wires were the same in new "full" featured decoders and the older ones, as well as, the wires from the pickups. Check the layout voltage near the turnout with the "problem", while all your trains are running. In my experience most, not all, intermittent problems tend to be electrical rather than mechanical.

Maybe a buffer capacitor on power lines to sound module (old electronics trick in load switching)

Atlas and Peco both make the Insulfrog line they work great with six axle engines but when you have switchers they don't run. this is why you should upgrade your switches to powered if you are using switchers. if you are using road engines go ahead and use insulfrogs. also note you must gap your rails if you are going to install switches.

Additional reasons for temporary power loss are that your layout and loco are not ideal components but real components on a layout with an environment around it. So dirt and oil on track can mean that the wheels that do have pickup don't get clear signal/power. Thus ensuring as many wheels as possible get the right power is always a good idea.

I mainly work on my own layout but also help out my friends on their layout. Cheers, Kevin

Cool

Mark, I think we've all been there before. Not too long ago I spent a couple days trying to isolate a short on my Joint Line layout. It ended up being a Insulfrog switch. Not sure what to tell you about troubleshooting your Electrofrog #8. It sounds like you've done everything I would have tried. I'm going to jumper my stock rails to the closure rails as well so I don't have to rely on the switch point making goo electrical contact. If you think it might be the switch points you could add a small jumper wire from the closure rail to the switch point. There should already be good electrical contact between those two pieces, but it just another idea since you said that might be the problem. Since there isn't a short it does really seem like some portion of the switch isn't powered. Cheers, Kevin

Yes, it does Kevin, maybe I will have a more clear brain tomorrow. Frustrating, but maybe the points are dead.

It does seem that the point rails are dead, but how many feeders can I drop under a switch? It's already a mess with wiring.

I think I am just going to spend the 30 bucks and buy an insulfrog version.

Lol

According to Atlas wiring book #12, all Atlas frogs are insulated but one type has metal and the other one has plastic frogs. If you have the Custom-Line Mark IV style then they can be powered. The book explains the process.

Thanks for the additional information. Cheers, Kevin.

Tony, thanks for the feedback. I'm sure there are multiple reasons why a lot of model railroaders call model railroad switches turnouts but I've seen references to the reason being to avoid confusion with electrical switches as the most common. That's the reason given in the NMRA definition of turnout as well. I disagree with your assertion that using small wheelbase engines for switchers is crazy or biased. While lots of longer wheel based engines were used for switching assignments, especially in later years, a lot of switch engines, especially early diesels, did have short wheelbases. If you read Pennsy Diesels by Douglas and Weiglin, the chapters on early road switchers and early switchers you'll find mostly short wheel base 4-axle units. Looking at steam engines you'll find 0-4-0, 0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-0, etc engines doing switching jobs. On my current Colorado Joint Line layout, the primary yard switchers at my Denver yard are a pair of BN SD9s (since that's what they used there in the 90s), but I don't plan on used any Pennsy SD9s as switchers on this layout. Pennsy had 25 SD9s (Pennsy class ES-17m) and they were used almost exclusively as hump yard switchers. Also, since they were purchased in 1957 they are after my early 50s time frame. For SD7s (ES-15a), Pennsy only had 2 and they were used as pushers on Madison Hill Indiana. The Alco RS series you mentioned does have 4-axle trucks, but the RSD series has 6-axle trucks. I do plan to have some of both RS and RSD road switchers. However, the U28C was a high horsepower road engine, first purchased by Pennsy in 1966. I'm never going to have one of those on my switching layout. If you look at the engines that were used in Philly on switching assignments (not yard switching) in the early 50s, you'll find most are short wheel based engines-both diesel and steam. I never said you can't use a different type of engine, and you'll probably be able to find an example of pretty much every engine doing a switching job at some point. But on my layout I do plan on having mostly short wheel based engines because that is what Pennsy commonly used for its switching and transfer assignments (noting of course the exception of the Baldwin RT-624 transfer engine). Cheers, Kevin

Thank you for not being cross with my comments.

American English, you call hoods bonnets, spell tires tyres, etc. in the us they are switches, in the UK points.