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Electronics - Solar charge controllers and what is PWM?

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Kevin Loughin

Kevin Loughin

Күн бұрын

Sorry for the delay in new content. I'm out in the southwestern Arizona desert and it took a few cold and rainy days to find a spot where I had decent connectivity to upload.
It was too chilly that morning to get the whole main camera and production tools out, so I cheated and used the laptops webcam.
If you like my videos, please subscribe here: www.youtube.com...
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Пікірлер: 86
@nickmolonlabe5780
@nickmolonlabe5780 5 жыл бұрын
Kevin you have great teaching skills. I am the husband of a retired school teacher. Thank you for the lesson.
@paulscott2423
@paulscott2423 3 жыл бұрын
Probably the best description of PWM tech in relation to solar I've ever seen. Loved the inclusion of the chirp and scope pieces. That really wrapped it up. Well done Kevin, and respect!
@johndn9238
@johndn9238 Жыл бұрын
I'm trying to see pwm at work on my charge controller using a scope and you're demo is very helpful. Thanks very much indeed.
@MoTown44240
@MoTown44240 5 жыл бұрын
Great explanation. Each person I choose to listen to that knows about this topic adds to what I already know. First was Michael Bryce, WB8VGE from the late 80's until around 2010. Mike wrote articles for the QRP Quarterly, 73 Amateur Radio and Ham Radio (when those publications were in print), and CQ Amateur Radio and QST. Then I found you tube in 2011 and later Martin J. Lorton, KD8LON. Now, Kevin. Mike, as well as Popular Science, Popular Electronics, and The Mother Earth News periodicals, was my initial influence to solar back in the 70's and later. Martin was a bit explaining theory and review of products and at times too advanced for me. Then I found Kevin on you tube who explained everything he talks/videos about in a very understanding way. I am fortunate to have these people for display of, review of, and teachers of topics that enhance my enjoyment of my hobby. Thanks for the great video Kevin. 73 KB8AMZ
@loughkb
@loughkb 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the kind words Terry, and I'm glad that you found the video informative. 73
@macmusic12
@macmusic12 2 жыл бұрын
Kevin, you've explained PWM the best way possible, can't wait to see MPPT as well. Thank you so much 🤔✔
@johng7rwf419
@johng7rwf419 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Kevin, very good explanation of PWM, I was in robotics before I retired and used PWM to drive DC motors to control acceleration, speed and deceleration. John G7RWF.
@jeffreyeide7512
@jeffreyeide7512 5 жыл бұрын
You Kevin: Great video! I can see you're getting a good example of how desert conditions can be a bit chilly. We just got done with our biggest snowfall of 70 yrs just recently. Hope temps abate for your stay. Also look forward to seeing again where you stayed at. Don't worry about 34 days till Spring! 73's de seeker/Jeff WA7LFP
@MrLohatoolvebyte
@MrLohatoolvebyte 5 жыл бұрын
I have been using solar with big PWM type chargers together with SLA batteries (24 volt system) for about 15 years. I discovered a simple trick for really ramping up the efficiency of my solar panels by inserting a massive electrolytic capacitor in parallel with the panels at the charger input. It enhances the efficiency by limiting input voltage sag during the peak input load phase of the pulse sequence. This had the effect of adding about 20% more capacity to the system and really enhanced battery conditioning and cloudy day performance. Unfortunately it enhanced the unwanted RF emissions too. I employed big ferrite inductor choke rings on all of the ins and outs to clean most of the noise. I had it so I was running almost everything in the house except the central AC this way. One odd noise I didn't anticipate was the solid state components in the chargers started to audibly "sing" during the short pulse/low load phase. The heat sinks almost always stayed cold. I got curious and measured the effective currant flowing in and out of the capacitor. It was around 20 amps on the AC scale.
@DarrenWetherilt
@DarrenWetherilt 5 жыл бұрын
On a chilly day like that, you probably could have used the heat recovered from a linear charge controller to warm the RV up!
@BubbaWarbucks
@BubbaWarbucks 5 жыл бұрын
I never made it to Yuma this year, spent most of my time in and around Ehrenberg and Quartzsite. But there are some places near Yuma where I'd like to spend some time. You confirmed my observations regarding PWM controllers in this vid.
@radiolinux45
@radiolinux45 5 жыл бұрын
Very interesting I have learned from this video and showing how it can cause RFI problems to Radio Amateurs with PWM de KG0PL
@charlesschindler1971
@charlesschindler1971 5 жыл бұрын
Great show Kevin.I found it educational. You would make a great teacher at a secondary level vocational type school.
@omalperera
@omalperera 2 жыл бұрын
Wonderful explanation. Thanks for sharing!
@margaqrt
@margaqrt 5 жыл бұрын
Interesting, well presented, thanks Kevin.
@everydaypatriot1083
@everydaypatriot1083 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the clear, concise explanation. 73
@jptucsonaz8503
@jptucsonaz8503 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Kevin, Very good explanation of the PWM system. The live video with the scope really nails it down. One thing, you might want to add an explanation about the spikes at the front & tail of the square waves and how THAT is the source of the "birdie" noise due to harmonics. Are you going to the Titan site tomorrow @ 830am? 73 - John - N7GHZ
@loughkb
@loughkb 5 жыл бұрын
I'd really like to, but I'm kind of stuck here for a bit. January's plane tickets and the drive out here ate up my budget. I have to sit and work until I get my next paycheck early next month. January really screwed up my plan. That site is where the disc cone antenna is at, right?
@jptucsonaz8503
@jptucsonaz8503 5 жыл бұрын
@@loughkb it is where the discone ant. Is, but... Never mind for now. They just canceled it due to continuing snow, rain & 20 degree temps, brrrr! Will let you know if & when they reschedule it.
@loughkb
@loughkb 5 жыл бұрын
Cool. It would be neat to do a live stream while connected to the discone. If we could swing that. :-) I'll keep my fingers crossed.
@jptucsonaz8503
@jptucsonaz8503 5 жыл бұрын
@@loughkb ok. Will let you know... 73
@timb4655
@timb4655 5 жыл бұрын
Great video Kevin. Thanks for taking the time to explain it so clearly. Learnt something today 👍
@Jimwill01
@Jimwill01 5 жыл бұрын
Ok, got that -- thanks. It was about what I thought. But - what about explaining MPPT? That I haven't gotten yet! lol
@loughkb
@loughkb 5 жыл бұрын
Well, from what I've digested so far on MPPT, the basic idea is to find the load level that produces the highest wattage from the panels. Periodically, the charge controller will take the panels input and run it up through a varying load, from a low to high load. It will then calculate at which point the highest wattage was being produced. Then it will attempt to load the panels at that level and drive that power into the batteries. From what I've read, it really only produces an advantage IF the panels produce a high enough voltage to give it a broad range to work with. In most small solar installations, it's not supposed to produce much of a gain. It was hard to find the hard data through all of the anecdotal claims though. Lot's of people out there saying it's amazing, but with no controlled data. You can't just go day to day in different tests with the light changing and say, look, it's way better. So, It's hard to say anything conclusive about it's advantages.
@Jimwill01
@Jimwill01 5 жыл бұрын
@@loughkb Thanks - maybe no hard data is why I was getting confused about it!
@acemmanuel2002
@acemmanuel2002 Жыл бұрын
This is awesome.
@saniabdullahi393
@saniabdullahi393 2 жыл бұрын
Best explanation ever. Regards
@lawalabubakar6950
@lawalabubakar6950 2 жыл бұрын
Great explaining. Thanks a lot
@abdulwaaseihsultan7733
@abdulwaaseihsultan7733 3 жыл бұрын
Hats off!
@leroyjr.4464
@leroyjr.4464 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Kevin. Thanks for the video. If you really want to see noise try one of the Wicked Smart Genius chargers from Noco.
@RobsLBL
@RobsLBL 3 жыл бұрын
I'm tracking like a VCR, thanks for the video
@tomkeady1750
@tomkeady1750 4 жыл бұрын
Kevin, thanks for a great illustration of a principal I didn't understand. I'm currently installing the same Renogy two 100w panel system on our travel trailer. I oped for the PMW Wanderer controller over the MPPT. I'm a newbie ham, 2016 and still trying to absorb it all and was glad to see you address the interference issue. Two question's, is there anything you would change on your solar system now that you've spent some time with it? Would the MPPT control be quieter? Again, thanks for all you do. Tom KE0JVS
@viocaia
@viocaia 4 жыл бұрын
Nice! Thanks!
@TheStevenhull
@TheStevenhull 5 жыл бұрын
What a great video, we’ll done.
@ronfortier3503
@ronfortier3503 5 жыл бұрын
Great info and explanation.Thanks.
@mikeprrior7278
@mikeprrior7278 3 жыл бұрын
Kevin Loughin Sir, I am Mike from Pakistan. I loved your explaination. My questions is when battery is being recharged don't you think ON time of pulse need to be larger and OFF time of pulse need to be smaller so that maximum power from PV to flow so that battery gets charged.
@loughkb
@loughkb 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, that's how it works.
@souadmassi7683
@souadmassi7683 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this wonderful video sir and greeting from Algeria I have one question please In case of the sun is available, does the load take its power from the battery (if it is fully charged) or from the PV module? What if the battery is half charged in the same previous conditions?
@loughkb
@loughkb 2 жыл бұрын
The load draws from what is available. The solar feeds in as much as it can provide from your panels. So if your panels can only provide 10 amps, and your load draws 15, 5 will come from the battery. If the clouds move in and the panels can only provide 3 amps, 12 will come from the battery.
@souadmassi7683
@souadmassi7683 2 жыл бұрын
@@loughkb Thank you for your reply
@ugandatribune1204
@ugandatribune1204 2 жыл бұрын
Can I use a pwm to charge my 12v(100ah) battery using a 250w solar panel with 29v (Vmp) and Voc 36v (Voc) Will it charge perfectly or need to go for an mppt I need advice
@adrongarretson6195
@adrongarretson6195 5 жыл бұрын
KE0UEF here I love your videos and I just experienced this I'd rather have it 40° LOL right now then the -20 that it is here and I warm up a little bit there do keep it warm
@projectsiva9536
@projectsiva9536 3 жыл бұрын
Usefull information thank you sir
@hishammustafa8543
@hishammustafa8543 2 жыл бұрын
So a pwm controllers act as a pulse charger So are they useful in repairing batteries? And do they have bad effects only on radios or there are other appliances they affect? Thanks
@loughkb
@loughkb 2 жыл бұрын
The pulse frequency is quite high, the battery smooths it right out.
@aannoonniimmss
@aannoonniimmss 5 жыл бұрын
Hi, could you recommend a cheap oscilloscope please ?
@kenlanier2131
@kenlanier2131 5 жыл бұрын
Obi One :)
@jakesgrobler1634
@jakesgrobler1634 3 жыл бұрын
How would the panel voltage influence the charge rate through the PWM?
@charlesschindler1971
@charlesschindler1971 5 жыл бұрын
Hail Kevin!
@HitchHiker4Freedom
@HitchHiker4Freedom 5 жыл бұрын
PWM and MPPT both have their place. If you're just charging a couple batteries with low wattage and voltage panels for an RV or bush camp, say to run a couple of lights, charge your phone and run an intermittent appliance then PWM is the way to go. MPPT is not needed and much to expensive. On the other hand if you are running 1500 watts of solar to charge 1000 AH battery bank then MPPT is the way to go. Good luck finding PWM controllers to handle that kind of power. Just look at all the specs for both kinds and it becomes readily apparent why each has its place. Really can't compare them. PWM is a Honda Civic while the MPPT is a Ram diesel. You wouldn't try towing a 5th wheel with a Civic, or least I hope you wouldn't. Also watch out for cheap controllers claiming PWM. Some are just shunt regulation controllers with no PWM function. Same problem with some MPPT controllers. If it doesn't use a torrid transformer inside then its a PWM. Lots of scam artists out there trying to lift your wallet.
@HitchHiker4Freedom
@HitchHiker4Freedom 3 жыл бұрын
@@nix324 got a link to the highest powered PWM you know of?
@hossamhazzaa7093
@hossamhazzaa7093 3 жыл бұрын
my question is how the solar controler reduces thepanel output voltage to batary charging voltage. for example solar panel voltage is 18v. and the charging voltage is 14v or 13.8v... thanks
@loughkb
@loughkb 3 жыл бұрын
The unloaded voltage from the panels will be high, but will drop down to the load voltage when connected. Once the batteries are charged and no longer drawing current, the voltage can rise back up. That's where the charge controller will limit how much is being fed.
@chimpspecialist
@chimpspecialist 7 ай бұрын
My SLA battery cycles between 13 and 14 volts in about 1 second, is that due to the pulse?
@loughkb
@loughkb 7 ай бұрын
No. In pulse with modulation the pulses are going on and off hundreds to thousands of times a second. Your charge controller might not be a pulse width modulated type, it might just be switching on and off and you have a load on the battery, so the voltage goes up and then drops.
@Yuganshankar
@Yuganshankar 3 жыл бұрын
can i use a switching power supply instead of a solar panel in a PWM based system? thank you
@loughkb
@loughkb 3 жыл бұрын
I don't understand what you're asking. A switching power supply uses PWM in order to adjust output to match a change in load and provide a constant voltage.
@Yuganshankar
@Yuganshankar 3 жыл бұрын
@@loughkb i mean can i swap the solar panels in a pwn charge controller with a smps,witll it accept the smps input and charge the battery?
@loughkb
@loughkb 3 жыл бұрын
@@Yuganshankar Yes. I think so. As long as the power supply can provide voltage up around 18-23V as the solar panels would have.
@ross8315
@ross8315 5 жыл бұрын
neat, thanks
@samglaim4274
@samglaim4274 5 жыл бұрын
Nice demo of PWM. 73
@kellyblakmoffat
@kellyblakmoffat 4 жыл бұрын
this is soooo helpful
@jimrecord6505
@jimrecord6505 5 жыл бұрын
Have you experimented with filtering out some of the RF noise?
@loughkb
@loughkb 5 жыл бұрын
Not as yet. It would require some major re-work in my power control center. A couple of hefty chokes between the battery and power rails and some filter caps would probably take care of some of it. When I can afford to spend some time hooked to power, I might attempt it. Right now it's just a minor annoyance. The auto-notch on the 7300 kills it when needed.
@johnkershaw9575
@johnkershaw9575 5 жыл бұрын
Hi Kevin, thanks for the video and the way that you explain things. I learned something. I'm just outside of Lompoc, CA and this has been the coldest winter in the 30 years I've been out here. Hope it warms up soon for you. I've been trying to get my Delta Loop antenna (40M) up and running. Receiving great but doesn't seem to be getting any signal out. i.e. no one hears me. Would the wire touching trees branches affects this? Thanks JJK
@loughkb
@loughkb 5 жыл бұрын
If it's insulated wire, it shouldn't matter if it's touching the branches.
@johnkershaw9575
@johnkershaw9575 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Kevin
@Josabarman96
@Josabarman96 5 жыл бұрын
Where does the power go when it's off?
@madhumaddileti7617
@madhumaddileti7617 4 жыл бұрын
Thank Q Sir Good explanation
@PardeepSingh-wt8xo
@PardeepSingh-wt8xo 4 жыл бұрын
well explain like my collage professor
@leos9865
@leos9865 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks I get it now.
@petermoygannon698
@petermoygannon698 4 жыл бұрын
my pwm charge controller dingo 20/20 ...12 24 48 volt it won't work with a single house solar panel 180 watts why???
@loughkb
@loughkb 4 жыл бұрын
No reason I can think of, maybe you should contact the manufacturers tech support.
@petermoygannon698
@petermoygannon698 4 жыл бұрын
@@loughkb I'm thinking the panel has too many amps it's only a 20 amp pwm it's not a cheep one though.
@loughkb
@loughkb 4 жыл бұрын
@@petermoygannon698 put an amp meter in line. You'll probably be surprised to find you're getting 8 amps or less out of the panels. Doubt you'd see more than 10a
@petermoygannon698
@petermoygannon698 4 жыл бұрын
@@loughkb the current at pmax imp (5.31) A ...short circuit current (isc) 5.67 A ....... that's not over 20 amp that the change controller is ..I will do an amp test on my multimeter..that's only one panel I'm useing ..180 watt single panel.
@DAVIDGREGORYKERR
@DAVIDGREGORYKERR 5 жыл бұрын
Look up the Muppet by Julian llet.
@kellyblakmoffat
@kellyblakmoffat 4 жыл бұрын
now i can continue with my project.
@abdussamed107
@abdussamed107 3 жыл бұрын
why not just connecting a buck converter to a solar cell to charge the batteries?
@loughkb
@loughkb 3 жыл бұрын
A DC to DC converter usually changes voltage levels. There's no reason you couldn't use one to take the 18-20 volts from the panels and convert it to 13.5 or so. However, you'd have to monitor it and turn it off once the batteries are charged. Also, you wouldn't get a proper boost charge. Charge controllers will take lead acid batteries up to 14.2 volts initially and then fall back to a float charge around 13.6 volts. There's more to it than just feeding batteries power.
@willgilliam9053
@willgilliam9053 5 жыл бұрын
Welcome to my home state Kevin. Did you need to bring your home state weather with you? lol. Last time I saw snow was 4 years ago, so your here at a special and rare time... There is a huge 2m repeater network here. If you need any assistance, jump on and say hi... Hope you don't mind me posting their website. www.eaars.com/ My appolgies if you do :)
@tifogra689
@tifogra689 5 жыл бұрын
Secondlifestorage.com is a really great forum about solar and diy powerwalls!
@gfl1957
@gfl1957 5 жыл бұрын
PWM controllers are a huge waste of power. Only reasonable use is for a 5 watt panel charging a cell phone. MPPT is the only way to go.
@loughkb
@loughkb 5 жыл бұрын
In reality, MPPT can give as much as a 30% advantage during partial shading of the panels. However, in direct sun, or heavy shading, that drops to single digits. There's a lot of anecdotal noise out there, but when you spend the time to hunt for controlled tests and data, you find that it's not the holy grail many shout it out to be. There is an advantage, but it may or may not be worth the added expense for many. One controlled test can be found here. Note the delivered amperage measured with the two controllers. Only a decent advantage during 25% shading of the panels. www.sunstore.co.uk/2018/10/09/mppt-vs-pwm-charge-controllers-putting-extra-power-claims-to-the-test/
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