man i hope it's a good review and you compare against sonic 8k s..

Where can I find the J3D Tech video link?

Hey Ross, can you please answer the question that bugs me since the release of Saturn 3 - does Elegoo's new build plates fit their previous models?) Specifically - the new Saturn 3 plate on Saturn 2

Interesting perspective, I have been considering getting a resin printer in addition to my bambulab for business purposes. Though I was not aware that you could make functional parts on resin printers. Although I did use them up to 15 years ago (commercial grade SLA) working as an Industrial Designer, most prints were used to create tooling for small production runs or prototypes. My question is, what kind of functional parts are you actually able to make with resin now?

@@dwintster we make lots of smaller parts, capacitor casings, wire organizers, speaker adapter rings and housings. The "basic" abs like resins can be a bit brittle for functional parts requirements depending, but look into a company called "3D Materials" and they have lines of affordable engineering resins, the PP and PCS lines make great resins for stuff that needs some flexibility and impact resistance. They have high heat (400f+), ceramic like, silicon like and a few others. Big things getting to know what resins go in what application.

@tyoung319 That's great , it has really progressed a lot. Thanks a lot for the info. I will check them out.

Yeah I admit, it is hard for me to go back to these small units now

Interesting. I've never had problems with my FEP, but I'm printing on 2k printers (about to upgrade soon). Is that such a problem for you that you're looking to make a change? Even though it compromises print quality? Is this because you do a lot of printing for commercial reasons? Genuinely curious as to what user persona that appeals to. (I hope this comes across as a respectful question... I mean it entirely respectfully.)

Ugh. So ACF is for newbs that can't be bothered to choose correct settings and adjust prints so they don't have excessive cross-sections (suction)?

@@mr_disintegrator i heard this many times also when comparing ABS to PLA , i absolutely disagree with you

@@user-it7kg3pm4q also the lifting speed can be 3X and have no failure, people are having good reviews about ACF

@@mr_disintegrator I wouldn't use it because of the hatching effect, but less peel force is objectively a good thing. It ultimately means it allows smaller supports to be used and by extension less clean up. Supports are the hardest part of resin printing, reducing the barrier to entry isn't a bad thing.

Yeah I agree, probe ly not a whole tray because that would up the price quite a bit, but at least a choice of PFA in the box

That sounds too logical.

That's exactly why I buy an extra resin tank with normal FEP with my Saturn 3 Ultra. When I want to print fast with no extra detail like big base I took ACF and for the small detail I took the normal FEP. I think it is good to have a choice

@@miklay1527 Very Smart Decision!

What settings do you change and how much, when you switch from ACF to PFA?

We’ll bring it out to more territories ASAP

At £50 (63.53 USD) per kg it doesn't really help the UK.

@@MrSlabberdank ouch. :D 😅

FIFTY QUID A BOTTLE

I just went, I might try that… even though I have 4 bottles sat next to my printer… but damn, £50. How good IS it? Has anyone here tried?

thanks a Ton, yeah VOG did great by replacing the ACF and showing what it can do. I'll do the same with my Mars 4. yeah i found out about the screen protector from commentors, i never got one.

This is quite true, because unless you are making microelectronic parts where you need precision delineated by the millionths, there is only so much practical use 99.9999999% of users will want or need. This is why specialty tooling is so expensive, in order to cater to that 0.0000001% of the population. Once we reach the point where resolution lines are invisible to the naked eye, or after a model has been primed and painted, then thats where this race should end.

Yes! Thats what I think I will be doing also.

Yep. I’m 100% with you on that.

You would thing you would like a high quality build that lasts longer but let's face it, we can't help but upgrade after a couple years.

Yeah, they are killing it in the market by being very efficient with their costs

Oh that;s sich a perfect point. yeah the Mars 2 is still solid even now!, in fact I'm about to drop a review of a 2k printer about that size and you know what. prints are fine.

Thanks for sharing! You are completely right, I do the same. If a print takes long, is rather have that and a good print.

Good shout

I have an old Anycubic Mono still using its original FEP film after going through over 7 1000ml bottles of resin (or about 100 print jobs in my case). Applying PTFE dry lube to the FEP film every time you go through a bottle of resin significantly increases the lifespan of the film. I've since recently upgraded to the Anycubic Mono 2 and Anycubic M5s and expect those films to last quite a while too.

@@agentcee688 I use ptfe lube too, but after a dozen prints the film starts to look like shit with splotches and whatnot that translates into the prints so as soon as I see deformation from the fep I swap em out though I suppose it could last much longer.

@@esurfrider7687 I guess for what I print the condition of the FEP film isn't that important, it still prints with the quality I want. As long as it still works, that's all that matters, which in my case is a LONG time.

Ok ok, that' sounds like a solid use. Inasume you could do a tray of test sizes too?

In theory but I have not seen any proof.

Yeah, exactly right. I only learned about the fresnel lens differrnce after making the video

@@FauxHammer Its also the best point of comparison we have of how it affects prints. Saturn 8k and saturn 2 also had a different light source so not all difference in quality is necessarily from the lens.

@@magikarp2063 yeah now that I know this is there, I’m actually concerned the Mars 4 may read as worse than the Mini8k with softer edges. It wasn’t a huge deal on the sat 2 bs 8k comparison I did, but it was there.

How has the Mars 4 ultra for cast worked for you? I just ordered it to start with 3D jewelry castings, but I have doubts about whether it is the best option in terms of printing quality.

That’s the plan. When I get these printers. I’m here to review the printers I get. When I get a normal Mars 4, I’ll print with that, then use the Mars 4 vat on the ultra so I don’t waste an ACF film now.

@@FauxHammer ok but technically if you are careful can't you remove it and re-install it later?? (no experience with resin printers, looking now to buy one)

@@St0RM33 yeah I could, but I have 7 other printers here to review and 5 more on the way!

@@FauxHammer well more videos, more views, more money to make haha

@@FauxHammerdo you have an idea of what settings you’d change (and how much you’d change them) if printing on the 4 Ultra when using PFA?

Thanks, brands don’t tend to explain much of their own products or how they work.

Yeah that's is an awesome printer

I still haven't had chance to start using the saturn 2 I got late last year. I've kept wondering about an upgrade to this generation, but honestly I don't really think it feels like there's enough of a difference right now for me

Ultra is awesome, please wait for my review in a week

@@FauxHammer thanks, I'm really waiting to see what you have to say on ACF, VOGMAN mentioned nothing about it, must've improved I guess.

Yeah that exactly what we wanted to put out there but also sharper that most abs like. Not in the EU yet, but we are trying. Only way to do it would be to import from Uk and prices would be insane

@@FauxHammer looking forward to it. I am in a weird situation when I will live in UK for next 8 months, but my 3d printer is back in EU and sadly resin is not exactly something that one can take with them on the plane ;).

It’s almost like I know the 3D printing audience better than the blood manufacturers!

Thanks, and yeah. I get to proove this soon too because they are finally sending me one!!!!!

@@FauxHammer Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it :)

@@MayaPosch oh I already love it and I know why I love it. I’ll do some previously I tested stuff. But honestly, what can I say now that has my already been said…. I’m just glad I’m getting the printer.

Hope I explained it well

Glad I could help!

I get that, but I'd be more worried when that business hands out those fast printedcmodels and the client balks at the quality suddenly being far worse than what they had before.

the nice thing about the ultra it comes with wifi, frensel lens (i hope it doesn't yellow as it's plastic) and better build mechanism, it would be better to give PFA film and double rails than ACF film..they are kinda shooting themselves in the foot here

It will be the same quality as the nars 4 but with the other enhanced features. Just like the M5s was to the M5

@@FauxHammer the point is to see if it's worth the extra money..in my mind yes, the issue they don't have yet a spare vat for sale yet

⁠@@St0RM33 I’ve got a Saturn 3 resin tank with PFA arriving soon and will try printing out some minis to see how much sharper it is compared to the ACF that came with the ultra

@@slayer1551 hmm tag me once you do:)

So basically, from a miniature wargaming perspective, this means it is the best option to print all of your terrain in resin. Especially since most terrain lack large swathes of smooth surfaces. Which when viewed in that light, is not a bad thing at all. This just needs to be effectively marketed for such projects, instead of allowing users to assume they are getting the best resolution on this screen than any other printer, when the OEM ACF is getting in the way of that. Thus, it's only drawback, is Elegoo's lack of effective communication of that quality to consumers. This very well may be one of the resin printers where you would really want two separate resin tanks. One with ACF, and one with FEP, to get the best of both worlds for just the cost of merely one additional tank, rather than the cost of an additional printer... Perhaps this may yet turn out to be a hot ticket item afterall.

I bet it can be done. But expensive To engineer

Prusa SL1S

Speed matters in production prints of functional parts where quality means accuracy and strength vs looks.

Thanks, great yo hear from people like you who have done this rather than people who just comment against this point and have never tried. Yeah it is expensive, sorry. But we feel it’s the best balance out there for miniatures and it’s easy to use with it being water washable

Hi, do you mind solving some doubts? I'm new into 3D printing and I've pre-ordered the M5s. I'm a bit concerned since there are multiple videos praising it's printing quality, but I've also found the videos and analysis from FauxHammer in which says that the printing quality is not as good as the Phrozen Mini 8k, for example. I want to print wargaming miniatures and bits to do conversions and maybe some more bigger models or terrain. I've found that you are one of the few people that has changed the ACF for the FEP, and I was wondering if it really makes a difference in quality, or should I think about swapping to another printer with smaller printing area but smaller pixel size. Thanks a lot!

@@munias17 the printer is great, but I am not a fan of the ACF film and I changed my FEP out. If you are printing miniature armies, you will want a medium format build plate ( M5, M5S, Saturn, Mighty 8k, etc). You can get more on the plate. If you are doing one off models, I would recommend going with the Elegoo Mars line (not the Ultra due to ACF film) or Mini 8ks for your first printer. The Mars 4 series has the smallest pixels at this time and Fauxhammer just put out a review. If you got the entry price on the M5S I would stick with it. You can always change the film if the ACF doesn't work for you. That is what I did. I highly recommend Siraya tech Simple water washable to start. It is an easy resin to deal with and has a good price point with great results. The is also a great Reddit community building up for the M5S at r/AnyCubicPhotonMonoM5s.

I agree with you entirely. I think it's the marketing of these printers I have issue with. They all say, no quality loss with PFa and faster speeds That's a lie

@@FauxHammer +1, Even some of the FDM printers lose strength with speed which is a non starter for me

Yeah very possibly. But most stuff I print is presupported anyway.

Yes, especially for larger prints ... ACF is a godsend for functional parts that need to be prototyped.

It's only in the UK for now, sorry we will look to open up to worldwide shipping asap

You can print at sub 50 on the Neptune's. I've done 40 micron on my Neptune. But its not resin quality because you still have extruded plastic and the edge of each layer will always be slightly beveled.

Resin prints with rando ABS like resins gets stronger prints for functional parts than FDM hands down. Its the needless slowness of the prints that hampers resin printers from taking over and making FDM obsolete. Quality in functional parts uses case doesn't mean micron resolution

yep, identical between normal and ultra machines

Well, the m5 screen isn’t very sharp anyway. So adding act will make it worse

yeah it's only one rail..they should have spend the extra money adding one and shipping with pfa film instead

Sorry, I was trying to say “I’m not going to talk about (the usual crap I say in videos)” but looking back I can see how this seems like I’m suggesting it has dual linear rails

@@FauxHammer Love your work - just thought I was missing something. I am in the market, so I am paying extra attention. I had preordered the Anycubic M5s, but cancelled. Just do not know what to do.

Yeah sorry, it's older footage. But you can see more vertical lines and recesses at the bottom.

Well 4k and 8k on resins are just marketing terms. It's just means higher detail, but normally at the cost of rigidity. Elegoo 8k space grey is a tad more flexible. Some people mix in so sirayatech tenacious with their 8k to toughen it up. I like anycubiv FLp craftsman's for it's sharpnes and strength. And some and resins are fairly decent, just not that sharp. Phrozen 4k is nice. In fact ours is kinda like phrozen 4k resin. But is also water washable. Which is probably why it costing us more

Yeah I was probably too harsh on this. But when I say “nobody” I meant 99% of the community. Which seems to have been echoed by many people, loud and clear. My lint it more, what is the point such high resolution then yoh diminish it, it makes the 9k pointless when a 4k would do the exact same thing. But if it did t say 9k, nobody would by it either because they think its lesser It’s marketing BS

@@FauxHammer agree. Tkx for clarification

Yes they are the same

Yeah, just change the vat. Or realise that ACF is crap and you’ll never use it and just change the film.

Glad you found them and I hope Mezgike got another sale from you. He's an incredible creator.

I actually have yeah. But what I won't keeps changing.

I'll probably do an announcement video in the future to drum up more interest and understanding. But in sending it to other creators for their reviews. I can't really require something I have this much if a personal stake in and be objective.

speed at the cost of quality though?

Well, based on what you just said, I'm 100% on your side. There is far too much BS AROUND 3D printing that makes it harder for people. That's why I made my “how to lrintvminiatures” video. I'm yet to find the person that followed that guide and hasn't started getting successful prints.

@@FauxHammer I'll give that a watch and might be referencing it in the near future! I picked up a GKTwo this week, and man it's a sweet printer. I've had others naturally, but was just blown away at how good it was out of the box. I couldn't believe how easy it was to get a great print with a few adaptations from my old profile on a 4k printer. Like "is this how easy it is now, or is it just That good?!" I did the profile before I had the machine, and it needs a tweak to _lower_ the exposure after a Very good full plate print a (did an exposure test first of course) but it came out so great, I immediately had confidence to just resume converting previous files and get back to my backlog! It was already at 1 second normal layers, which my old printers liked but were on the softish side; easy support removal. This at one second, they came out like iron! Just total wow, and very worth the purchase! Might have to convert the whole fleet in time!!

Probably a good idea to ask in the Facebook groups for help

It's not as sharp as the mars 3 when you use ACF

Good call, it's a solid unit. Though why not a Saturn I stead of m5? I don't know what you print but yi me, that larger build area is so much more useful. Even than quality in most cases.

​@@FauxHammer still unsure after watching lot of printer reviews. I don't need big build area since i just print small tabletop figures and no full units or so. i am affraid of higher costs for repairing and other extras if i choose a big printer. Did you get your Mars 4? i would love to see the comparison and the print with the Mars 4 Ultra with PFA. The new video about the Saturn 3 Ultra was confusing :D

I expect they will have something better within a year.

Got, I hope it doesn’t take years, this is why I wanted to get out there now and state that it’s crap.

How so?

@@FauxHammerUh, reliable peeling has been at the core of these resin printers since the start. The less force that's used on the peel, the less force is exerted on the model and things like supports, etc. Don't you remember back in the late 2000s they used to use siloxane coated reservoirs for the release?

I guess it’s Elegoo and I just didn’t get one on mine

@@FauxHammer my thoughts too, maybe because it's a review unit; example the caps on the build plate screws were added later after uncle jessy's review

lol, good question Watch my Saturn 3 Ultra video, that will tell you why I don't just replace it. hope you like our resin

You got the ultra version? Or does the Saturn 3 also come with ACF?

@@patt4343 Saturn 3 does not come with acf only ultra

Thanks for sharing. I live comments like that that validate and groove the point I was making, rather than just complain at me about it. Glad you got the result you wanted and it is an easy change

But this one, is worse

So ummm, when you send the plate to Home, Then tioghten the plate, then tell it that that positon, the Home position is 0. then 0 is not home?

@@FauxHammer zero is home by default. So unless you have moved the z offset that part is not necessary. That's why it is not together, or automated, which was your question. You don't need to do that at all (unless you have moved it off home). But the idea is that you should move it off home, that's what it is for after all. But that has nothing to do with plate leveling. That is 'z calibration' - where you print a low fine object of known height and then measure the result, then adjust the z=0 to correct the error. You hear people using different sheets of paper when they level the plate - that's just dumb. That's what z=0 is there for. So basically if you are not using it correctly, then you should only press that button once in the lifetime of the printer.

In fans spinning case elegiac can provide You a chore that will turn them off. We can also go with ultra and change that ACF film ehh

@@smokehead5318 yeah you can but why would one want to pay more and have to change a brand new FEP just to get the most out of the 9k screen?

@@netnoob77 Idk, because they do not think like they should from our perspective:)? There are x% of people that do not watch yt, just buying in rush probably.

Well, that’s more of a glass is half empty view. I’d say the better option is to get this and just replace the acf with PFA

That would be useful

Oh you're so right!

Hope you're subscribed then, because it's out tomorrow

@@FauxHammer What great news! Of course, I was already for a long time! ;)

my review is up now for members and will be out on Tuesday, i have a comparison review coming shortly after.

The higher the number the more detail that pops out in theory, especially on smaller prints. It depends what you are trying to do, But the M5S is a perfectly good beginner machine. Only buy more expensive when you know exactly why you are doing so.

Higher resolution numbers mean more detail (except there's more to it than that ofc...) So 8k is (potentially) better than 4k for instance. Being new to it, you should bear in mind a couple of things, some of which review channels rarely mention: Is it a really popular printer? (you want to get a really popular printer to help with any trouble shooting as lots of people will own one and have solved issues before you come across them) Are parts for it (new fep sheets, LCD, replacement resin vat, power supply, touch screen) easily available? Where will your printer live? If it's in a workshop or garage, you probably don't need to worry too much about the fumes from the resin, but if it's in your home then is it possible for you to get a printer with some sort of air filter built in? How warm is the environment that it will live be? (You would ideally keep the resin at around 22-27 degrees C) Where is the power button and usb port located? On some printers the usb port is on the side, which is a mild pain, the power button can often be on the back, which is also a pain (it sounds like no big deal, but you'd be surprised how annoying it can be while you're regularly using it). Does it have wifi (which *actually* works, because quite a few of them in the past have had it, but it didn't actually work or wasn't reliable). Finally, does it have anti aliasing? (Most newer printers do) So consider those points, but don't stress too much. Once you get the hang of using one, the only things you'll really regret are if you buy one that has a print bed that's smaller than you'd ideally like and whether it's easy to find information about it to help with troubleshooting issues, as well as is it easy to get replacement parts for. 4k Is probably fine for most applications, 8k is nice... 12k is honestly more than 99% need (and you won't be able to tell any difference by eye between that and 8k anyway), a Fresnel lens would be nice, but it's not worth agonizing over, you'll be able to print great stuff with a regular lens. Heads up: You'll make mistakes learning to use it, everyone does, you'll spill some uncured resin at some point, everyone does, but you'll be chuffed to bits when you have your first successful print, everyone is! :D

Higher resolution is more detail, but what the community has come to compare is the pixel size. The smaller the pixels, the higher the detail. If you are new, chekxnout my article in best 3d printer for miniatures. Link in video description. And this puts my preferences forball these printers in order.

Wow, thank you. Dunno what that is for, but I always like money and kudos!!!

@@FauxHammer I just find value in your content. You and a few other creators have helped me make informed decisions that I've used in my business. You guys helped me realize I didn't need a $10,000 - $15,000 printer that one of my suppliers would love to sell me. We've gotten to the point where a $300 printer surpasses some of these expensive printers.

Pretty much any printer will work with any resin

The idea of a Voron scares me

The resin pour is just a signature move. Has no value

@@FauxHammer I get that. But for an MDF printer I couldn't find a better printer that can do more than a Voron.