One thing to note is, even though Richard Stallman is one of the original emacs developers, he no longer is and hasn't contributed for decades. This lack of actual knowledge of what is actually happening in the codebase has caused conflict in the community. It is a bit sad, but it is what it is. His opinion isn't a fact, it is just his well respected opinion, but not a schedule for the direction of emacs in general.

@@krux02 Yeah it's been 15 years that he speak about wysiwyg, but nobody want to work on that for hundred of reason. Complexity isn't really one of them. Anyway, what people would want to see in emacs is more focus on what emacs does great, "editing code" but RMS is pushing for a multi-purpose editing software. Which often clash in the devel mailing list. What I want to see, is more async job, and easier/safer async lisp, I hate the fact that each time i'm copying a 2GB file it hang my editor if I don't press the right async key, async should be defaulted in a lot of places. I would like an upgraded parallel GC so that my editor doesn't hang everytime i'm running some large lisp, or even redisplaying the modeline. and ofc a better windows integration as running emacs on windows is so slower compared to a linux based one. Which cause issue in companies which use windows as their primarly environment. An upgraded GUI with a better look n feel. And a GUI framework inside emacs, so that people can write package with a GUI (like small deployement utilities, beautifuler syntax checking, integrated docs popup which doesn't destroy your buffer, togglable menus, notifications etc). For example, a nice togglable list for CI running pipeline, that I can start, stop, connect to would be great. I would also like a renewed debugger integration, instead of the old and buggy one we have now, which allows me to run debugger inside a docker containers without spending a week setting it up, and a renewed compilation mode with a greater look and feel, instead of just the verbose compiler output. Anyway, more polished stuff for the naïve end users, instead of CLI parameters toggling and wysiwig.

@@PankajDoharey Scheme is the wrong way. Lisp is niche enough already, Scheme is a *lot* more niche than Lisp is.

@@krux02 "and hasn't contributed for decades" ... and you know this how, because your claim is not true.

"Emacs is open to have all modern features that newer software like VS Code use" The GNU project has never suffered from "not invented here" syndrome, since the project is about computing freedom. Having said that, GNU Emacs is streets ahead of VS Code for features, including modern ones. Please don't assume that proprietary software is always ahead or "more modern."

People often forget how much he’s contributed to the world. His books are insightful. His teachings profound. And GNU software is far-reaching. His eccentricities and politics aside, I prefer to live in a world with RMS than without. Free/Libre software doesn’t have to exist-and wouldn’t exist without him. I’m forever grateful for his contributions to computers and his tireless, steadfast advocacy. Imagine if we were all judged as harshly as him. Imagine a world without free software. We should never take his work for granted, because it’s easier to maintain freedom than to reclaim it after it’s lost. Thank you, RMS.

Uh, I have some bad news for you, buddy...

​@@mitchelvalentino1569 i know his philosophy and opinions very well from many years ago. i translated many of his essential articles to my country's language... and i absolutely agree with u... the whole world owes to this man and his comrades... he changed the path of history by the philosophy and movement that he introduced, otherwise the world could be really different from what it is now. especially we the computer and programming experts can understand this

He refuses top lobby congress to make backdoors and adware/spyware software illegal.

"There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children. Granted, children may not dare say no to an older relative, or may not realize they could say no; in that case, even if they do not overtly object, the relationship may still feel imposed to them. That's not willing participation, it's imposed participation, a different issue." RMS

@@judsonsimzer1463 Exactly, look at what they did to centos, and developed systemd and propagandize it to let other distros to use it, I guess that's beneficial for them, so issues and bugs will be solved quickly when more devs are involved.

Bundling JavaScript isn't necessarily bad so long as the uncompiled version is FOSS. It also would be nice to verify that the MD5 matches up with the one being sent on the official server server if you compile it yourself.

and I would like a flying pony!

Feel free to use it - it's out there!

Hardware compatibility < BSD

It's been forked as GNU/Turd.

I hope you're young!

"prophet" ... "profit" is something else entirely :-D

The anti profit prophet 😂

@@xpusostomos not really anti profit, but I get what you mean hahaha

I don't think it feels Lispy enough, I think it needs to be image based like common lisp then it would boot faster than even nano. I think it also needs a concurrency model and use hardware acceleration for the graphics

​@@laughingvampire7555the lisp changes aren't going to happen the language is more or less baked in. hardware acceleration is a maybe but I'm not sure what the advantage is. text is easy to rastarize. concurrency is really hard literally nothing in emacs is thread safe

I'm just learning Org Mode now. It's great. I'm doing the Udemy course from Rainer Konig. Looking forward to trying out Org Roam too. Mostly I've just used Emacs for Lisp programming, but I'm starting to use it for a lot more lately.

Perhaps take a look at Quarto (based on pandoc) and Org-Mode. They are like a match made in heaven. ☺️

"doc form": you're joking!?

@@user_user1337 I know, right. Some clients want those. I probably should have said odt. 🤣

@@danbixler4021 Rainer has some amazing tuts on Org.

I'm a writer who'd love to switch to Emacs, but it's almost unusable without these editing features (in comparison to LibreOffice, Word, Google Writer, etc.). And yes, editing is a part of the writing process. I can't wait to see that happen in Emacs!

especially since WYSIWYG is not a recursive acronym!

@@szneka12 have you tried using latex?

@@ryanleemartin7758 LOL, well played!

@@vim1729 Have you tried using troff?

Org and typesetting, no longer an issue

What you are asking is grafting all of emacs onto libre Office.

@@xpusostomos No, since Emacs is based on elisp (it's basically an elisp interpreter/compiler) not GUILE. I don't even know if elisp would work as an extension language, as it was never designed as such. Also, the display code, editor specific stuff etc. wouldn't need to be included. I think it could start pretty minimal by making some APIs accessible via GUILE.

I'm curious about emacs. I'm a so-so vim user. I do more writing than coding, and I've wanted WYSIWYG in a text editor for a long time. Even something so simple as curly quotes is a PITA on a text editor. I have scripts and such to solve that. I am all for a capable text editor that lets me do more than ASCII. I'd be thrilled by something with roughly LO Writer layout alone, without worrying about the rest of the suite. Not an invented problem to me.

sorry, What's wrong with dynamic scoping? I'm not super familiar with lisp so don't understand the nuance of what it means

@@Mallchad Anonymous functions will pick up variables from their execution scope by name, not from the scope where they are defined.

@@Modul450 oh that's annoying af... I can see why it would be useful but that's just plain confusing

I recommend you check out the documentation and just make sure to use it for most tasks to try get used to the workflow! You aren’t weak!! It’s really overwhelming what can be done with emacs. “Don’t think about what could be, but instead what you can manage!” - A neovim user, probably. I’m sure it’s a worthy effort. I’ve only ever heard great things about emacs from long time users.

:q

RMS doesn't care about safe code or stranger's code, he cares about free code. So it's almost religious for him he can't run web sites with non free code.

you can't consent to website code, to do that you'd have to just not use the internet, which is not entirely fair because they're often running coffee you don't *need* to render Webb pages

Worse... He has shaved his beard...

@@citrusNikOs There were at least 2 families of birds nesting quite comfortably in his beard but they refused to say GNU/Linux and left Stallman with no choice but to shave on principle.

@Rlaziken haha. indeed!

@@ryanleemartin7758 These birds were most certainly Micro$oft spy drones, so it is fully justified.

@@ryanleemartin7758 lol

You will find that many Emacs Lisp programmers are BETTER than their corporate counterparts simply because they care enough about programming to do it out of passion and personal study. Now, those people exist in corporations but many of them will never advance beyond learning 10% of a language and gluing code together.

@@PixelOutlaw you're missing the point. Being good at programming has nothing to do with how good of an engineer you are. Vice versa applies too. If you're a talented programmer but a crappy engineer, you may create a great piece of software solving a complex problem but nobody'll be able to help you because they won't understand your code. It may also be simply unmaintainable and hard to change/extend. Talent will take you only this far. That's why there're many good projects on github that died out. Because they were maintained by ONE person (the author) and nobody else is willing to work on that. And being good at engineering is, unfortunately, not something you can have intrinsically. It's something you acquire over the years collaborating with other people on different projects And my point was that bringing more professional engineers onboard could help the project. But not necessarily. I think Emacs is a niche and at a good place atm

I agree, a more common scripting language would open emacs up to more developers that would otherwise be put off by lisp. I recently checked out NeoVim after hearing about their new addition of Lua as a scripting language and without even knowing anything about Lua I was able to be productive with it on day one because of how familiar and easy to read the language was. Some popular emacs packages are even getting ported to NeoVim using Lua so there are folks who value what emacs and it’s community has to offer but maybe prefer developing for NeoVim because of the easier to get started scripting language. Emacs with a more common scripting language would be a game changer IMO.

Lisp itself is used only by great engineers in general

@@sachindraragul1094 what an elitist pile of bullshit

If you just want to do your banking, why does it matter?

Too much. It sneaks secretly into everything.

I think some people in the community suggested it as a modern companion to elisp. I think there is also an Electron fork of Emacs that enables you to write extensions in JS.

well, for one it is evil!

Many people like using yt-dlp or similar programs to download videos without running Javascript. You can also watch EmacsConf videos using the link in the description or on the talk pages on the conference website.

@@EmacsConf yt-dlp contains a simple javascript interpreter and it does runs code from youtube pages some times time you download a video with it (unless they have change it recently)

@@EmacsConf will this method skip the incessant ads?

@@clamato422 of course, but you also should really use an adblocker in your browser

@@clamato422 yes

Yeah, I think it's his bias towards JS. Because one can also write Elisp that manipulates file systems with ease. Language itself is not really the problem here. I would argue Elisp has worse syntax for human readability.

That's a diversion, his real reasoning is a religious aversion to non free software.

Please, quiet.

Since you stopped listening, you missed the crux of his argument. Perhaps you should first listen, and then disagree with the core of the argument? The malice he gave an example of a few moments later doesn't require escaping the sandbox.

i don't get what you're saying

What producers?

naming an operating system and a kernel need not be so descriptive as something like an editor extension among a sea of other editor extensions. most operating system and other such names have no descriptive meaning and are just made to sound cool, even though "GNU" technically speaks to something about its origin as a Unix-like operating system emacs though isn't based on wordplay, that's just a straightforward shortening of "editor macros" which describes how it was originally conceived as a set of macros for the TECO editor, and it's certainly a good sounding name

The problem with getting scheme working is not which one to pick it's making all the elisp work. There's some fundamental problems like in elisp nil is false and in scheme it is not. So either you do some deep magic in the interpreter or you rewrite and retest millions of lines of code in one hit.

I believe that is what the evil-mode package does, and I think Doom-emacs ships with it by default

Ahem, there's viper-mode which is part of GNU Emacs, and there is a whole section on it and related emulations (like CUA) in the GNU Emacs manual. You did look it up there first didn't you? 😛 There are also "distributions" of customised GNU Emacs which take the concept even further. PS. No, personally I don't want Vim key-bindings etc in my GNU Emacs, but software freedom means that you can if you wish.

of course, you can make Emacs do practically anything, because Emacs itself at its core is an Emacs Lisp interpreter, and most of the actual editor is written in Emacs Lisp, which is the same language used to extend and customize Emacs, therefore there's practically no distinction between extending/customizing Emacs and rewriting Emacs itself. you could even remove core parts of Emacs and replace them with something else entirely if you really wanted to

​@@shallex5744there is a distinction, the core of emacs is written in C. the elisp interface is a neat standard library which you can ignore and write your own functions for

package-install evil-mode

That's what happens to people, or haven't you noticed? rms will be 70 this year.

What do you mean

Just use a non-destroyed version of X11.

@@henriquemarques6196 not that easy there used to be good closed source ones.

ouch.

do not generalize. some node.js folks are pretty good at algorithmic skills

Insulting them does not help. It just shows a bit about your character...

What does this even mean?

The argument indeed is not so good, but the decision is more than awesome. JavaScript should go to hell as soon as possible. Emacs church doesn't allow software demons to participate of the cults. I hope that JS people continue to use VS Code and make we safe from that spreading cancer

@@jesusmgw He's totally on point ! He is old sure but he definitely knows what he's talking about. You're the foolish young man !

Agreed, just because a language has been used for nefarious purposes, that doesn’t mean that the language itself is unethical (if that’s his argument). I do agree that Lisp is the natural language for Emacs though, and that it’s not worth supporting JavaScript - I just disagree with that one particular point.

@@mohhackz4167 Agreed

@@mohhackz4167 No he isn't exactly on point. He's talking about websites sending code to browsers being wrong. Maybe - but that code can be written in any language today - even LISP. Transpiled to TypeScript (that's the name of the language) or to WebAssembly. I don't even like JavaScript/TypeScript and I don't care about language used to extend EMACS :-) ...but don't be rude to W4ldi just because you don't understand. I like some Stallman's ideas, but he isn't right about everything ;-)

GNU Emacs is a GUI editor.

@@andrewwigglesworth3030 but u need to use the mouse? As far as ik u do not

@@pandasoli6581 GNU Emacs has a GUI interface (that the vast majority of people use), and a TUI interface. Mouse use has nothing to do with this, and it's quite possible to use a mouse in a non-GUI interface.

@@andrewwigglesworth3030 been learning and using Emacs for a few weeks now, i have yet to use the GUI version

​@@andrewwigglesworth3030it can be opened as a non GUI editor too

If you have to ask for a tutor, you're not cut out for it

@@xpusostomos please rephrase your sentence. Are you volunteering for a helping hand?

that is what he is advocating

he has no time for coding nowadays as a front-man of free-software foundation.

This is his presentation to EmacsConf. He is presenting his personal vision and views. I doubt some of it will ever happen (WYSIWYG), but as a speaker at EmacsConf, why shouldn't he put this forward? You also underestimate the effort to do some of these things if you think one person can just do all this...

@@tristanmills4948 but that's the advantage of open source

Not everyone knows the reasoning. This is helpful to those people.

Due to the butterfly effect, we'd now be living in a post apocalyptic nuclear hellscape

he looks ill ☹

He's lost beard