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climbing outdoors for me grade vise is always like being hit in the face but extremely fun! And addicting 💪

@Emil Yves Gravelle did a 1-6-10 on what I guess is a standard campus board. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p59dnq6d0trTqmQ.html

Whoopsie

Yeah. This video is odd.

I agree

You know, I'd like to think these are sandbagged, but since he actually climbs at a high grade, I feel like I trust his grading more than my average climber grading.

The variation in grading of different gyms and climbing areas also plays a role in the spreading of the data. People climbing mostly outdoor will sandbag the data and people climbing inside will be softer.

I imagine that people have subjectively graded things quite sandbagged for most of these isolated exercises. Would be super cool to see the comparison though! For another reference, I tend to have quite high numbers hanging 2-arms but my numbers get significantly lower when switching to 1-arm hangs. Most of this is due to the fact that I've spent my climbing career training 2-arm hangs and 2-arm climbing and have just started in the last year practicing 1-arm hanging. So then how do you grade the skill aspect of this? Food for thought I think since I'm obviously strong enough to be hanging more than bodyweight 1-arm, but the skill isn't there yet.

That'd be super interesting

Man we're a bunch of nerds over here in this sport 😂

Okay it’s been 4 weeks! Where is the collab????

Objective data and some specific criteria for suggesting a grade would make this more useful…this is just an opinion piece. And maybe connecting a skill/exercise to its application on the wall would help people dial in the specificity aspect of their training.

Haha I'll take it. Useless, but also intriguing! Acrtually found it very interesting myself in the end, surprisingly

@@EmilAbrahamsson its very useful it gives you a sense of what benchmarjks you should be able to do at a level of climbing or what you should train to hgelp you with certain grade levels

@@saxon8981 That’s not my interpretation. I understood it as each exercise graded as if it was a climbing problem. So actually combining exercises (which you could argue that climbing is - a combination of exercises) would mean that the difficulty goes up a fair bit. You can get good at any single exercise here without it naturally transferring to climbing a problem. I would also add that it’s one thing to psychically being able to do a climb, and another to combine physical ability with technique and problem reading. I might sound like a total bummer here, but that’s what I’ve found out to be true for myself. Feel free to correct me though!

I think it could be useful, you usually know just about what grades you can climb, and then you can use the consensus here to see if there are some exercises here you can probably start doing.

its nice. it took a bit of pressure of me doing my one arm or front lever goal. im not at the benchmark yet, so its fine if i cannot do one yet.

remember that you are comparing your results to the data of a specific population: climbers who are interested into assessing strenght!

Thanks a ton my homie! Psyched about another milestone :-)

that's the beauty of the consensus my friend, it doesn't lie. Ish. Who knows, could be a lot of errors in how people interpreted the questions :P But if you're like 2-3 V-grades of the norm, then it might be something to work on!

Oh, i took it as: damn i'm relatively superb at climbing, for my grades ;)

Wehoo thank you! I'm happy to hear that :-)

Thank you very much good sir!

Thanks my homie! Appreciate the support :-)

no prob!

Haha I mean for me front lever and mono hangs are like V17... But that would be like somebody who doesn't have an easy time building arm/lat strength grading a OAP V17, it's just not fair to everyone else. But yeah, super hard to grade "easy" stuff. I was surprised to see my own suggestions being close to everyone else actually, albeit slightly sandbagged.

@@EmilAbrahamssonlololol v17 for a front lever? You are in desperate need of doing a couple dead lifts my brutha. If you can deadlift 2x body weight front levers become a v2-v4 move

@@LuLzezRoflcopter haha not quite for me my friend. I can deadlift around 3x but front lever is still difficult!

Certainly. If I do this again with other exercises I'll include a boolean classifier and more metrics

@@EmilAbrahamsson Cool, also i am quite familiar with data analysis, machine learning and i am a climbing physicist so i so if you need some assistance i would like to help :)

@@StonerFB how would you use machine learning in this?

@@mattiasgonczi My bad, i would not use ML directly, reviewing correlation and bayes classifier would be enough i think, i am just biased to relate these things with ML as it was also in the ML book i read altough its not ML in particular

@@mattiasgonczi an interesting thing tho would be, i fyou have large amounts of data, to take the ability to do certain exercices as features and label which boulders the personn can do and then predict by the input of whihc exercises you can do, which boulders you should be able to send or a send probability (of course it would mainly work for power boulders i think)

I personally think everyone who feels they can suggest a grade should. I’m the survey people were asked to ignore stuff they didn’t feel they had a clue what to suggest on. Not saying it’s a perfect study though, far from it, and there’s never an absolute truth in grades anyway :-)

I think there’s no point if you’re an inexperienced climber who can’t do a certain exercise. Once you have experienced other moves and you’ve seen V-something in person even though you haven’t climbed it you can compare. For me, there were a few exercises I cannot do but I do feel like I can grade them quite well.

@@EmilAbrahamsson i think the question of grading/scaling is always intersting and i also think it might turn out to be usefull one way or another. Unfortunately it is not an easy topic at all and i think "simply" having people rate different exercises on a scale wont do the job, especially for very hard exercises a very small proportion of respondents cant do, just as Mister X has suggested already. I think simply stating "not to answer in case of doubt" unfortunately doesn't do the job (for example there are over 700 people giving a grad on the 1-7 campus move. I don't know who the 1.120 respondents in total are - maybe they are all all very experienced climbers, but still 2/3 of them suggesting a grade for a campus move maybe one person on earth ever executed sounds a bit high). However, i think, instead of asking for ratings on an existing scale, it might be more reliable to present two exercises at a time and let participants pick the harder one of the two and construct the actual ranking-scale out of all the binary comparisions. As i've said already, i think the idea of creating such a scale is great, so i hope you keep this project going and im curious to hear new findings about it.

Everything is a lower grade because of my inflated ego lifting me up

Wiiiiiiild Bazook appears! Thanks for letting me know homie, nice to know you’re still watching

One arm pull up is overrated. A lot of very good climbers aren't able to do this. One of the most important skills is finger strength.

​@@sebastientardivel8179 i agree, once you get to v8+ the holds are usually so bad that you can't make use of your raw pull strength most of the time

Sure thing! Shouldn’t be an issue.

Oh wow, interesting! All the gyms I’ve been to do the 22cm (like 9 inch ish?), but it could certainly be different around the world

Actually a fun analysis, I wonder how many others that is the case for. Next question: Can a V10 climber grade a V1? If not, can strong routesetters really grade climbs indoors?

@@EmilAbrahamsson My guess is when it comes to grading actually climbs, you can more easily standardise by thinking about the history of climbs you did in the past. This is maybe gets warped by time and as you get stronger but will still help. We don’t grade exercises, and they’re very different, so in doing so we’re almost inventing a new scale without the past experience to help. Therefore people start to grade around what they find hard, what they can do, and what grade they climb. Probably exaggerates strength biases. Regarding grading below your limit, and from personal experience, for several years 7b was my max. It felt really tough and so I gave 7b to any really tough boulders that I could only just do. For the last few years I’ve been training more, now I climb 8a+ projecting 8b. However, my gut response still is to give boulders 7b when I get first ascent and I found it tough. I have to try and imagine other climbers I know who do max out at those grades to recalibrate the scale. Applying this to exercises, my partner climbs v4/5 and was furious at pull up + 25% being v3. Anyway, i should say, nice video and thanks for putting the effort into doing the research!

I'm the same I find initiating a one arm pullup is easy but it's very hard to lock off the last 10-20% at the top. Maybe it has something to do with upper to lower arm lengh/ratio.

@@babsds0 Yes that is a possibility too which I have thought about but forgot to mention. Kind of annoying 😂 For me it gets hard at around 90 degrees, then easy for the next 30% or so and then very hard the last 10-20% yeah. Just super weird whenever I compare to the guy I climb with, because whether it is one arms or weighted pull ups, he always seem to do the last 20% so easy and can almost rest at the top. Weird.

I think height is a huge factor in this. Are you fairly tall? I’ve been noticing that all my less tall climbing friends are super strong at one armers, front levers etc., while not being better at climbing than me or other taller climbers. For instance one of my shorter mates barely maxes at V5 yet can rep out 5 one armers per arm. I think with shorter arms and less body weight all these exercises become way easier. I max at 7B but can’t do one armers, front levers or any other common benchmarks.

@@TheBanana202 I'm 183 cm. He is 180 cm or so. Around there. However I weigh 74 kg whereas he only weighs 63 kg. This obviously plays a role, however for weighted pull ups and hangs we can pull/hang around the same percentages.

@@TheBanana202 Actually being tall probably makes it harder for those exercices. Look at olympic gymnasts, they're usually pretty short ! Being short reduces the leverage, hence making it easier. However, equally important might be your physiology between lower body part and upper body part : having long legs in comparison to your torso will probably result in a harder front lever, for example.

Try to L-sit with knees slightly bent (like 5 degrees). For some people the limitating factor isn't the posterior chain but either hamstring flexibility or quads strength, and that's not really a problem for climbing.

@@Ptitviaud1337 that's interesting cause as soon as I bend my legs just a little bit I can do L-sit considerably longer. Like I might just get to 5 sec or below with straight legs but if it's just about holding the legs up and not the form I can probably do twice as long. I'm gonna try it in training soon thx

@@precursor4263 Ah ! Thought so. You can try to isolate if it's hamstring flexibility by streching them (like 2 or 3 times, 20sec each with some rest), and then try a max L-sit after that. If there's any significal improvement, there you are. Anyhow, dont bother too much with it, L-sit is not highly correlated to climbing. However, it's surprising to see that you're "only" able to L sit for 10 sec, that's low in comparison to bouldering 7B! You should try to front lever with bent legs, or even tuck-front lever (look it up). My guess is that you would score pretty well on those. L-sit might just be no very useful for you.

Hahah yeah I’ve peaked now, won’t get better than this. Although I had some pie charts as well that I didn’t include..

Would also be an interesting metric, but hard to find causation and not just correlation. The amount of people who can do one arm pull up is incredibly much larger than people who can do V13 for instance. The same goes for 1-4-7, both in the sense who can do 1-4-7 but can't do V7 and people who can do V7 but can't do 1-4-7 :P Numbers would get messy. Would be fun to try though!

i guess thats the reason why rainbow rocket is graded so high... for smaller lighter guys its harder to do. weight is always key.

In retrospect totally yeah. I thought he had much different spacing but apparently it's 21cm instead of 22, which is no big difference

I gotta give 1-6-10 a go, I never have actually. Does it feel much harder than 1-5-9 to you? Just asking since 1-5-8 is the same as 1-4-7 for me personally (ish). * Yeah I wonder if Yves is on standard spacing. I mean I wouldn't be too surprised, the man has more strength that all of us combined, but I figured since he's slightly shorter it just seems absurd to me

@@EmilAbrahamsson He said in the comments that it was on 21cm spacing

@@EmilAbrahamsson ya it’s defs harder, the 5-9 is a hard pull through but you have more to push from on the other hand. When you’re at 1-6 you get even less push. But that’s just what I thought logically, Interesting though because it kinda went immediately for me. Just tried rly freakin hard, and I haven’t seen many do it. Maybe it’s not that much harder!

Haha it does sound like maybe you have an abundance of upper body power yes. I’d be surprised if I could help guide you up atleast 7As if you can do 1 armers and 1-4-7. Injuries suck though, I definitely think they’re connected for you.

That's very interesting. I have climbed two 7b benchmarked problems on the Moonboard and one problem grade 7b+ in our gym, however I can only do a pull up with 70% body weight, and can only do a one arm pull up on my left arm (which is a little weird since I'm right handed) which I did two weeks ago one single time, and I also can't hold the front lever or even straddle front lever (can pull up into it easily though). For sure an interesting subject.

@@imagzz4942 I forgot the reason why but most right handed climbers do their first one arm pull up with their left hand

Very interesting that it can be so diffrent from person to person, I have climbed 5 outdoor v8 but comparing to this results i am weak af! Here is the exercises I can do as a v8 outdoor climber: No one arms, no frontlever, campus 1:3:4 and 1:5, pull up +30% bw, 20 mm edge +25% bw

Just get a good coach/climber looking over your training, mental approach and technique. You could climb a whole numbergrade higher than u are currently with these strength stats (if you’re not lacking a significant amount of fingerstrength)

The only way you are going to standardize grades is if you standardize humans first.

what is also not considered is finger lenght... 25mm are jugs for most women! XD

Certainly! Also brings the question, can we grade the same for somebody whose 5' as 6' at all? Especially outlier boulders like dynos or wide compression

​@@EmilAbrahamsson and the answer is easy - we can't. But we all have passion to compete, compare and progress. Thats why you video is something that almost any motivated climber think about. Thanks for the amazing video!

I should have said I don't really train these things. I weigh average 155 lbs, the only training I usually do are 1 arm pulls with a 20mm block but my max is about 35 lbs under my body weight. I do weighted Pullups but only use 70 lbs for reps. If I were to train these things "exercises" I would perform them better.

Well the truth is I don't really use shampoo very often, and that's enough for me to do the trick. A sensible question imo!

The beastmaker hangboards seem to vary quite a bit. Not only edge depth, but also the slopers.

The same goes for my BM, at my home i can't hang on those slopers, but in the gym i can hang quite easy, the same goes for the crimp at the bottom, at my home i can't hang on those thing with one arm at all, in the gym yes, it feels like another board 😅