If they don't trust you, they don't respect you. Period. Sources - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p79ymrKjsqutlaM.html news.yahoo.com/boss-could-watching-now-employers-134116010.html

Any manager who has the time to observe their employees this intensively needs to have their own productivity called into question.

I wonder if the bosses and mid managers will be sharing their productivity with the employees as well, you know just for the sake of fairness and transparency.

It's funny you said the thing about "what kind of programmer makes this" . When I started as a programmer over a decade ago, I told myself I would always turn down creating employee tracking software, or anything else evil. I'm happy to say I've turned down the opportunity several times, and always will.

What I learned from this video: -cover your webcam when not in use -unplug/ disable your mic when not in use -have a tablet/ second laptop nearby for personal use, or just use your phone -keep moving that mouse!

As a European I'm happy that a company using such a software would get sued/fined out of existence over here.

I love how this software is premised on the idea that employees might be untrustworthy, without its creators acknowledging that the same applies to employers using this software.

This isn't about trust, it's about control.

As an I.T manager myself I've been avoiding tracking software like this since its a plague to the overall business. These topics come up and the answer is no Thank God! Trust issues man.... Trust issues..... Time sheets and thats it. Joshua I'm with you %1000

Employers have been spying on employees for decades. At my first development job back in the late 90s, my boss called me into the office one day to ask me why I was emailing another company about a new job. I told him "well... he's offering me more money. Why wouldn't I email him about that?" Ended up getting a raise out of him spying on me. Still sucks to do this though.

The unmentioned part about all of this is that this type of software SLOWS THE HELL out of the work computer.

Can you imagine if your company's plan for protecting IP & security was to give the keys to the kingdom to a shady spyware company that can monitor literally everything you own? I'd trust my worst employee more than I'd trust any of the companies that build these shady products.

I’ve worked for large corporations and I remember when something like 30% of my coworkers in sales were placed on probation and lost their annual sales bonus because they didn’t document working “enough” before 10 am and after 2 PM. Keep in mind this was a field sales job with daily travel….all throughout the day and working through lunch was typical, not to mention nonstop training after hours.all monitored through the tablet device. It was a disgusting environment.

What doesn't seem to be talked about is the productivity lost by the BOSS. If your boss is watching other employees' computer screens, they're not getting any actual work done.

If a company puts this spyware on your box, leave. Abusive relationships are never worth keeping. Being paid for it doesn't change that.

That's exactly why I quit FedEx. I thought the truck cameras only recorded so they could access it in case of an incident, but no. Two months went by, and my boss started accidentally saying stuff he would only know if he was watching me on camera.

"Employers should notify the employees of the tracking..." it should be ILLEGAL to do this without the notifying employees. Im pretty sure it's illegal, at least in my state, to put cameras up without notifying employees

Orwell's 1984 was simply "spoiler alert".

This can only be used against you. If my company installed this, the clock would be ticking on me getting a new job.

This is overwhelmingly invasive. I cannot believe this isn't illegal, especially if they put this type of "software" on an employee's personal machine or phone.

I worked at a place that monitored everything we were doing behind the computer. Someone was hired to sit in a room and just look through logs all day and keystrokes. It was one of the most toxic environments I've ever worked at. It sucked.

"If you're not typing, you're not working." I don't know where this mentality came from. I remember my high school computer tech teacher had a big poster in the classroom that said "Typing is not a substitute for thinking." Maybe some WFH folks should hang a poster like that directly where the camera will pick it up.

If this software motivates workers, why isn't it mandatory for all of management, even the CEO - shouldn't it motivate and produce a better outcome? I will never accept this anywhere I choose to work. The second they put this on my computer, i'm out.

This is absolutely insane, any company implementing this is writing their slow death sentence. No normal person would ever survive in a company like this, only work pretenders who will spend all their efforts gaming this system, everyone will absolutely start to hate their job, even I they liked it before that. This software is going to end up costing them a lot of damage. Really sad story

These kind of things stress employees, and that usually leads to lower productivity. Especially for developers and creative employees. But I can really see it being useful for monitoring bureaucrats and employees in the public sector ;)

This shit is absolutely insane. If you work somewhere that implements something like this, leave immediately. The mental gymnastics that companies use to justify using software like this and how they spin it as leading to more productivity is asinine. Screw these companies.

Psycho CEOs claim it boosts productivity. Total BS. This only makes people more concerned about "right thinking"and quantity of keystrokes, than on actual work being done.

Joshua was joking about monitoring blood pressure and anything else, but frankly it's the next step: monitoring stress, motivation, engagement, and also any mood, through analyzed video meeting and real-time computer camera. What could go wrong?

Finally! Software which allows abusers to remotely abuse - I have an old boss who’d love this

Wouldn't this just favor programmers who write longer code rather than those that write code that is more concise? Longer isn't always better. The same thing applies to a good book. Ernest Hemingway is known for his brevity. Stephen King is not.

As the brilliant Jacque Fresco said: "The minute you punch a time clock, you are getting under a dictatorship". So, thanks again Joshua Fluke for bringing up this type of issues which have got so normalized in this money-hypnotized society. Thanks for sharing a little bit of questioning with KZfaq audiences.

For about a year I was given the responsibility of monitoring employees using similar tools. I did it for a while but absolutely hated it. It became way too invasive. Ended up quitting shortly after.

Wow, here in Germany it's not allowed :) I'm happy for that. It's very invasive and people don't function well ""motivated"" by fear. Fear always means less energy for the actual work

I worked for a company that did this, even accessed my camera that I had to disable my camera. Here's how it changed my work: 1. I was always on watch and made sure to type something, interruptimg my thought process 2. Because used to how it works and gamed the software ( productivity was almost non existent) 3. Started hating the manager 4. Did only minimum job required

HR and Middle Managers want to justify their jobs.

Society is showing it's control tendencies in full force these days. You are doing good work.

"Why can't we find loyal employees anymore? It's like there's no more trust these days." -Corporations,

HR: "Where were you? Our keystroke Algo said you were gone for 10 minutes" Worker: "Had to go to the bathroom" HR: "You missed the optional in office ice cream social that's mandatory for home workers to attend via zoom, you're fired."

oh yeah - this is another "instant quit" signal to me. Be interesting to see how long until stuff like that becomes a hacking target. Think of the great harvest of both personal and corporate passwords and trade secrets that live in that software.... And I LOVE the whole "if you spin it well, your employees are simps and will eat it up!"

Micromanaging another human being will only lead to an outburst or violence. Nobody needs a work mom. Politely tell them how to do the job, correct if they misstep. If they're not good enough FIRE them. Monitoring someone's behavior 24/7 is a good way to get an ex-employee to slash your tires weekly as their new job. If you go out of your way to make someone's life hell they'll dish it back at you x10.

I used to work for a few different trucking companies that used driver facing cameras. These cameras detected if you were tired, took your eyes off the road, eating/drinking, cell phone use, fumbling with the radio, even yawning. The cameras are connected to real time gps installed in the truck which also monitors braking, acceleration, steering, seatbelt usage, lane departure and of course records audio. I quit the industry as a whole 2 years ago and almost every carrier since then now has them installed in their fleets. All in the name of safety. Of course I have yet to see a CEO of any of these companies install a camera inside their personal or corporate owned vehicles. It’s an absolute joke and this type of micro management will creep into every facet of labor there is. Best thing you can do is work for yourself or one of the very few decent companies left.

Too many managers and above clearly don't understand just how much of the creative / troubleshooting process is just staring at the thing, or putting the kettle on, if you're so inclined.

Just resign when your boss starts monitoring you, this kind of bs is just a direct attack on your self respect. I resigned from my previous employer when they started monitoring us. Now I work in a company where we work remotely, there is no monitoring or time tracking. And everyone is so much productive.

As a programmer, I think it's maybe about time to discuss making judgements about whether we're using our powers for good or evil. Long past time actually. I would never personally work on a piece of software like this. I think it's about as much of an ethical violation as say doing psychological experiments on participants who are unaware.

Any company that uses something like this needs to be put on a list

Crazy. I would absolutely be miserable. This takes micro management to new disturbing levels. All the more reason to work for yourself.

This might be illegal. What if you have to send SSN, bank account or some other confidential data to the accounting department, or some medical stuff to HR that you don't want your manager to see. No one should be able to see your screen without your knowledge.

For transparency, the developers should make the software itself alert the employee when they are being tracked and can't be disabled by the employer. At least that would give the employee a chance to not be heard talking to the co-worker next to them about something private, etc. that may not even have anything to do with the company at all. Employers aren't entitled to know everything about your life.

11:50 don't understimate the lengths creeper software devs would go to track/monitor other people. They're also more common than we would like to think.

I'll quit instantly if my company ever gets such ideas.

10:22-10:25 Let me correct that for you: If you bring your own computer, you should expect 100% privacy, 100%. I don't care what the company policy is.

This reminds me of those high School teachers that wanted you to be working on something all the time regardless of whether you needed to unlike some other teachers that they gave you your work you finished it and then you could just do whatever you wanted because you finished it

since this software company and their customers are all about transparency, the software companies should put their client list on their website so we know which companies are using it.

Remember now, "productivity" is a generic word for a lot of companies! Being productive doesn't necessarily mean that you produce *quality* work; for some places you just do a large quantity of work that can be charged to a customer or client unfortunately. "Ethics" is another generic word too. 😑 BK

Thank you! Respect goes both ways

FULLY agree with everything you mentioned. Thank you for the video and the information.

IDK if you read comments on your old videos but just wanted to share this since it perfectly fit the subject of that video. When I started my career in IT ( Software Engineering ) I was working for a company that did some hardware and software for "industrial security", mainly ATC and banks. They once asked me if I could write a software that would monitor "screen activity" to use in ATC ( Air Traffic Control towers ) to check if everything displays correctly and cover up for "technical issue" - like when the software just hangs on one screen, if someone is modifying software, slapping something on top of required view etc. ( Do not ask me how much truth there was, I would say none ). Since I was just a junior and it was my first job I did start working on that spyware without hesitation. I worked on this project for about 3-4 months, changing and adapting to every change in design papers. After I was done with coding I was perfectly aware what kind of software it was, It was a perfect spyware that could monitor every employee screen silently. To give you a hint on what this software did, It started by loading configuration file from the server with minimal disk, network and CPU usage so that it would not be detected easily. After getting configuration ( blacklist of applicaitons, required and blacklisted programs, websites etc. ) that software started by gathering userspace information ( displays, resolutions, apps etc. ) and started to monitor which window is on top of which and calculate "percentage" of blacklisted things visible on top of required ones. So if you would watch a youtube video on a 320x240 window within visible area it would trigger an event that would be sent directly to the management server. That server gathered all of the informations, made statistics, provided remote access to the machine on our own protocol etc. This thing could "guess" if you're watching or just listening content on youtube or other .. things just by analyzing raw random pixels on the screen based on the windows handle of the corresponding window. These spywares are currently used in many companies around Europe so just be cautious.

If managers have so much time to micro-monitor their workers through these tools, they are obviously not spending that time strategizing, planning, preparing, leading, motivating, developing, resolving problems, and on and on. Another distraction for "management" to justify their existence. I'm a manager and I barely have time to track what my staff are doing at a micro-level. I have weekly meetings to get a quick summary of my team's performance and we discuss how to work through any issues and improvements.

Whenever I discover this sort of software on my work equipment I just disable it. I have never had HR come to me and ask me to turn it back on, what are they going to say, "yes we monitor you and need to see everything you do, you have no privacy"...!?

Dude I love your channel. Thanks for doing this.

Solution: always use a VM for external work, allows you to monitor what they are monitoring and restrict their access. Or better, you shouldn't work with people you don't trust.

I heard it as _Terrormind._ And I stand by my first impression of it.

I think working from home actually provides solutions to most of these problems: 1. Put one of those plastic shutters over your camera lens. What, are they going to tell you to remove it so they can spy on you, better? 2. Shut off your onboard mic at the software when not using it (if monitoring software can bypass that, it truly is fucked up) 3. Work in the same space as your personal computer. Do the Reddit and the KZfaq on the personal after just swiveling the chair. Monitoring software is super fucked up. But if we can't stop its implementation, we can at least throw a damp rag on it.

For employee monitoring all you really need is a MDM so you can lock down the computer if needed and possibly some data loss prevention software so employees can’t copy company data elsewhere. Anything else is overkill and invasion of privacy

I just went through something similar. Your video gave me power over myself. She did everything your ex did. Lesson learned. I’m more focused now on myself, my goals and dreams. Thanks bro

Companies: “Let’s reward constant work done without much forethought.” Also Companies: “Why won’t our employees create proactive solutions and innovate?” Creativity is periodic. It is not a linear process. It is lumpy and requires series of phases which may or may not relate to keystrokes. Over time, I’ve learned that it isn’t worth being creative or innovative unless I can make it one of my “goals” in our HR system for the year.

I quit a job over this. My boss had software that took a screenshot of my screen every 3-5 minutes and tracked my inputs. Why even hire people with those types of trust issues.

Also, seeing stuff like this, I have an immediate desire to go to my work machine and do a audit of all the services and startup applications on the device, verify each one., and disable any that are.....too invasive

Pretty sure this sounds like wiretapping....actually, if an employer does listen into your conversations with other people in your house or even in the workplace, then that DEFINITELY wiretapping, which is illegal.

knowing that my key strokes are monitored, I feel like I would totally troll my boss by using some ridiculous passwords.

I can imagine virtual machine (vm) software gaining popularity as a means to avoid this. If I had an employer really expecting me to install invasive surveillance software, I would just handle all work/surveillance in a vm and start searching for a new job outside of the vm.

A former boss of mine said that every workplace has its own kind of totalitarianism. I used to work happily for a few years until a new overbearing overseer came along. Then I was eventually canceled. Yet, companies have a legitimate concern as to how their computers and other equipment are used. If you are job hunting, love-hunting or engaged in politics, then use your mobile phone, not the employer's equipment.

I don't understand why they call it productivity... It's been shown in many studies that the more privacy you give to employees they better they work...

Looks like a 'solution' to an imagined problem. Waste of money at the very least, and creepy af.

teramind probably doesnt use teramind even on their low level staff

Explains why I couldnt send important emails at my former job. Sometimes I thought it was just paranoia, but this helps me out on my career Journey in finding a trustful work space. Thanks for the video.

I have been inside one large international company trying to do this kind of tracking and the reason was that managers were incompetent (managers not talking to their people, not trying to improve problems) and the company was having bad results so they did not fire those managers instead they were searching for this kind of tracking solutions.

You’re doing God’s work brother. Thank you for your content.

IT can easly monitor what you are browsing online and its very easy to do. Im just saying you dont even need tracking app.

There was an executive when I worked at Subway who everyone knew liked to watch the cameras at random restaurants and reprimand people who she found slacking off. That absolutely caused a level of fear in the employees; I can't even imagine having *this level* of surveillance.

I couldn't agree more. Great video!!!!

This was why last year when we started working from home I said they would have to provide me with a computer as mine was ‘too old’ for their software to work. I had a 2 monitor set up, a monitor for each computer 😂

Thanks for shedding light on this Josh. Also, Teramind’s KZfaq looks like they took down all the vids that guy made lol

It’s like this: Company: “we don’t trust you. We need to monitor everything you do. It’s only to protect our assets and productivity.” Me: How do I know you won’t abuse this software? Company: “Trust us.” Yeah, right. Well, don’t pretend to be surprised when your toxic little company starts bleeding staff faster than you can find new bodies to replace them. People have a tendency to give you what you expect and treat you as you treat them.

One day they gonna measure cpu and ram usage to check if you been working hard. That's when we need to write inefficient code and run Prime95 in the background.

It's a good thing I'm watching Josh on my personal computer at home and not the working laptop. I guess i'll have to explain the 25 minute idle time this afternoon.

How come managers, executives, Board members, and CEO never have to share what they’re working on. If tracking employees and making them work from office increases productivity, then we must also track to increase productivity.

Well Done Josh... Keep it up!

A lot of things are legal, doesn't mean you should do them.

What really bothers me of things like that is how often that kind of surveillance will conduct to wrong conclusions where neither the employee nor the employer wins. If that type of surveillance really would increase, quality, productivity and relationships, it would be great

I love this video! Thank you for doing this video. My employer uses Power BI to collect data on employees work. What they don't see is all the red tape employees encounter that keep them from finishing projects ...repeated issues that never ever get resolved. Some are massive quality issues when we report to FDA. Lack of SOPs or follow through are not monitored. What is .... The employees output! And monitoring....omg since Covid, they are always looking for new ways to monitor employees. Now they want to use employees personal cell phones to do the same. I said no way. I'm in CA and if they fire me, I have a class action lawsuit for them forcing employees to use their personal cells for business purposes to monitor employees and sell their data!!! Or use it to fire them, and or state now employee cell is used for work purposes, now employer has right to search and confiscate phone if they are concerned ...bc it's for business purposes. And when you put company mandated app on your cell you now have by doing so agreed to have your personal device searched. Which is in their policies if you dig through it...but in their policies they also refuse to reimburse employees for Internet, utilities and sell phone use while running their corporate business. Invasion of privacy everywhere! To use employee data to sell to marketing firms. Bottom line these companies that use this garbage treat their employees like slaves, as if they own everything about that employee. Bc now monitoring your every single breath is ok. Monitoring noise in the room of a remote worker, put BS apps on employees cells for the betterment of the business to track the employees every move and where they are at them and putting them on 24/7 GPS. They now how full access to your internet, and utilities free of charge. But hey the business corp is worried the about employees screwing the company. I think it's actually the other way around!!! Ugh! I totally agree we the your video, but really hits home! Boo!

Not to mention how EXTREMELY abeliest this is, like I know several people with varying ways of working, but ALL are productive and go beyond getting the job done. For example: ADHD, not everyone has the same capability to focus like this would demand, and applying methods to focus sometimes one needs movement or breaks. Also physical issuse: like thrombosis issues, and one may need more movement than just a standing desk can provide and have to stand away and stretch acordingly.Heck, I'm severely asthmatic and on bad days I need to step away for 15 min- not always on convenient lunch time and do a nebulizer treatment(I can do it at a desk but it takes about 5min to prep). Those are just a few things off the top of my head I can think of.That programmer who's promoting this is falling short in realizing people aren't machines you can monitor into productiveness. People are people that require respect and consideration.

I like your videos and appreciate your work Josh, keep doing what you do 👍 Employees surveillance must be illegal.

I used to have a script that keeps my cursor moving to avoid screen being locked when running a long script. Looks like adding some random keystroke, maybe add some Copilot would probably make it more realistic. But this only works if they only looking at metrics

Not only would it be used to monitor you in “real time” but they can go back through your entire history to find ANY reason to terminate you and avoid paying unemployment.

As a current employee I have always wondered how much my company actually tracks me. I don't recall anything major being mentioned about employee tracking in the employee handbook I was given but I have noticed every several hours while during working hours (whether I am working remotely or in office) a notification pops up on my screen saying that current usage is being updated and sent to your administrator (I have also noticed the same message pop up on coworkers and my boss's computer at times). I do feel more comfortable knowing that my boss is likely being tracked as well. I have never been questioned by anyone for what I am doing on my computer, even when it is not work related, as I presume the tracking is not actively managed and is there as a precaution to ensure the safety of the companies software since external transfers of software or ideas would be very damaging to the company I work at but I am not completely sure. Would feel more comfortable if my company directly stated what they were tracking but even if they did so I would have no way of verifying anyway. At my company I am pretty much forced to use the company computers since the servers and software I work on can only be accessed with company owned property. At least I have never been asked to install monitoring software on any of my personal devices and have never had to tell anyone why I left my desk, nor be required to use a webcam or keep a time sheet, while working remotely. Still scary knowing how invasive monitoring software can actually be.

I can only see this being good to use for DoD/Defense contractors, PCI & HIPAA machines to track information and prevent leaks, anything else is wrong.

17:35 - "Do this task by this date" I really want to agree with that statement, sadly the burocracy at my workplace can stretch the simplest tasks their duration by a random 25 to 75%, sometimes even more than that.. I've estimated smaller projects in the past to take around 2 weeks, to notice later that the ordering and financing department are asleep during half of their workday, requiring 6 weeks to order my required parts... My boss still thinks I needed 8 weeks to finish a project that I estimated would take 2 weeks.

I'm so gald that I work in a country where managers won't ever tell you that you've checked social media or watched a video on YT, unless you are doing it for hours or it's hurting your overall job performance. It's all about being human and understanding that we are not (and never will be) perfect. We need to wind down for 5 minutes sometimes, we need a break, we need to do some private urgent stuff. I can't do it on work infrastructure because I work in big banks that have everything blocked, but it doesn't change the fact that sometimes I'm doing not work-related stuff during work (on my phone or tablet). Do I deliver all my work on time. Absolutely yes!

It is illegal to capture details without employee consent and permission