As one "saved" at a Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church that used the Old Scofield Reference Bible from the pulpit back in 1977 at the age of 17, I was s Pre-Tribulation Dispensationalist until age 25, when I was converted to Mid-Tribulation Dispensationalism. At about age 29 or 30, a slow process led me to become a Historic Premillennialist and a Covenantalist. I thought I had come home, finally. But, Sam Waldron just had to write The End Times Made Simple, which I read about 15 years ago, not long after it was published. Oh, I wanted to remain an Historic Premillennialist because I had come to admire Charles Haddon Spurgeon so much. But, Sam Waldron is very persuasive. Not even the great Dr. James White can move me to Post-Millennialism. I watch Dr. White quite a bit. But, I think the proof texts for Post-Millennialism fit just as well, or even better, with Amillennialism. That's good, because didn't want to have to move again, though I am willing to go where the truth is. Its not an easy feat to best Dr. White in s debate, but I believe Dr. Waldron did do. Certainly, it's not about who has the best debate skills. However, My first 15 years in Christian churches were spent in those which called seminary a cemetery. Those churches weren't in the Reformed camp, either.

Love the podcast. Thank you brother. Also, love love love that you lead in prayer.

Thanks for hosting this discussion.

Dr Waldon very level headed on point and sincerely helpful/ I love his approach

Very good!!! Thank you

I like the cover for this podcast. The posture of his hands make him look soooooo confident in his wisdom. He's got it figured out!

For a great read on this topic try to find an old copy of "Inspired Principles of Prophetic Interpretation", by John Wilmot. Priceless.

Praise God for this! Im a reformed baptist amil myself and consider Dr. Waldron one of the current heroes of the faith. I have a ton of respect for CBTS. Whats the symbolism book you two were talking about for required reading at CBTS?

Quality mustache! Quality conversation!

I really like the practical question 55:17

Thank you for this - I'm grateful for you both. I would love to hear Dr. Waldron address what may be the weaknesses of the Amill view. Also, a good many theological giants of the past were Historicists (e.g. Spurgeon, Edwards). Does Dr Waldron find that to be at least a valid interpretation, albeit incredibly difficult to discern?

If I were Amill I would have to believe that the millennial reign is taking place in the intermediate state in heaven while the world is in tribulation.

Excellent interview. God's plan on Earth is the Church, which preaches Christ's Gospel. The Church does not share the stage with "another" people of God I.e. ethnic Israel. The church is the True, New, Reformed Israel of God. When it says: Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! "May they be secure who love you! (Psalm 122:6, ESV) It doesn't mean we pray for the Middle East, it means we pray for the Church, which is the current manifestation of the Heavenly Jerusalem. The ONE who CONQUERS, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I WILL WRITE on him/her the name of my God, and the NAME of the CITY of my God, the NEW JERUSALEM, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name. (Revelation 3:12, ESV) And I saw the holy city, NEW JERUSALEM, coming down out of HEAVEN from God, prepared as a BRIDE adorned for her husband. (Revelation 21:2, ESV) note that the CHURCH is ALSO the BRIDE in Ephesians 5. The Church = Jerusalem But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. (Galatians 4:26, ESV)

Don't be so sure regarding a Macarthur debate. Macarthur and Sproul debated baptism at a Ligonier conference. (I personally think Macarthur won that one.) They remained friends, and J-Mac was invited back. Nothing like a good "prize fight" to draw a crowd.

It is supported by Scripture!

Side note: Is Dr. Waldron going full Tom Selleck Stach?!? I think it will be glorious if he is.

Two high Sabbaths (Dan 9 v 27 ) Jesus Christ was cruxified in the middle of the week count backwords from a saturday night to vriday night 6 o clock ( day 1) from vryday night to thursday night ( day 2 ) from thursday night till wensday night day ( 3) and then during the daytime HE died.For the SON OF MAN WILL BE IN THE GRAVE FOR THREE DAYS AND FHREE NIGHTS.GLORY HALLELUJAH TO THE KING OF HEAVENS AND EARTH.AMEN.

I don't fit in any church. Our family attends one but I keep my mouth shut. My Church believes in the False Unbibical Premillennial Dispentualism Rapture View. Makes me so frustrated. I guess I am Partial Pretorist View. I dont know.

As far as the 2 witnesses, John 8: 18 Basically Jesus said He and His Father are the 2 witnesses. There is another verse in John also where Jesus said He and His Father are the 2 witnesses as well. This should be perfect for Amillenianist as well in my opinion. Thanks for the upload btw !!! God bless !!!

This is a serious topic, why did the host laugh so often?

My take on the narrative, or "story" on the Book of Revelation, is this: The Revelation was given to John by Christ to deliver His message to seven churches in Asia, written in signs for events that would soon take place beginning in the first century. The book concerns itself with the defeat of the enemies of Christ and His church, who were empowered by Satan, and ultimately he (Satan) was also defeated. The Jews were the first to persecute the Christians, documented in the Book of Acts, beginning with the stoning of Stephen, and continuing through to one of the last stonings of the Jews, recorded by Josephus (62 AD), the death of James, the brother of Jesus. Israel, with its capital city, Jerusalem, the adulterous harlot, or Babylon, rode the beast (Roman Empire - "We have no king but Caesar, crucify Him! Let this man's blood be on us and on our children"). The harlot acknowledged her adultery, "I am not a widow," meaning that she still has a husband, and he is not dead. The beast hated her, however, and eventually destroyed her (70 AD), and with the punishment reserved for the daughters of priests who became harlots, she was burned up by fire. God had been "married" to Israel, who never was faithful to Him, and because of her spiritual adultery, she was "executed" as Jewish law permits by the Romans. This allowed the Bride of Christ (church), the New Jerusalem, to take her rightful position at the marriage supper of the Lamb. She replaced the executed adulterous Old Jerusalem as this bride. Next, the beast, with the forced worship of its Emperor as God by all of its citizens, was dealt with. The beast continued to persecute the church and eventually was defeated by the rider of the white horse (Christ), whose weapon was the sword of the Spirit coming from His mouth (the gospel, the Word). By the 4th century, the Roman Empire declared Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire and, in complete reversal, the church had triumphed. Eventually, Paganism was made illegal, conquering the beast. For a lengthy period of time (millennium), Satan was prohibited (bound) from empowering nations to continue to persecute Christians on a worldwide basis like the Roman Empire days, and simultaneously the martyred souls who were slaughtered came to life and reigned with an already reigning Christ. This allowed Christianity to flourish and progress throughout this period, uninhibited and spread to every corner of the world. Then, after this lengthy time period (millennium), an event yet still in the future, Satan will be released briefly to attempt to empower all of the nations for worldwide persecution of the church once again, hoping to finally destroy them (he surrounds the great city, the New Jerusalem). Just before this occurs, however, Christ intervenes and destroys Satan and then institutes the final judgment of all humanity. Then eternity begins with the righteous receiving their reward and the damned sentenced to eternal punishment. As far as the millennium goes, I consider myself amill. Things are definitely not getting better. IMO, if we are not currently living in the days of Revelation 20:7-10, then we definitely are not far from it. When the French Revolution happened, with its Cult or Age of Reason, the influence on Christianity in Europe was forever changed. Because of this, by the mid 19th century, you had the writings of Karl Marx and Charles Darwin, both who greatly influenced the 20th century. Here we are in the early 21st century, and Christianity in the West is in retreat. The religious "nones" are the fastest growing group in America. Churches in Europe are being turned into museums. Muslims are growing fast in the East. This is not progress.

We are literally on the Island of "Lost" A warped reality created by Satan. Come out of this. Please.

Ephesians 2:7 KJV - "That in the *AGES* to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." *AGES* is plural. To only believe there is one more age is an error. The second half of the 70th week begin with the 3.5 year testimony of the two witnesses. That's the same time as the war against saints and how long the woman/bride is goes to a place prepared by God in the wilderness (Rev. 12:6, 14; 13:5-7). Rev. 20 is not reciprocal. Even if the dragon was symbolic, we are explicitly told he is bound. Other angels are in chains, why not Satan? Jude 1:6 KJV - "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved *in everlasting CHAINS* under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

The whole argument for any of the views is put to rest in Mt.24:29-31; 2Tim.4:1; 2Thes.1:7-10 et al... quite simply, these text tell us plainly, Mt.24:25, there is no such thing as a Millennial reign of Christ on this sin cursed earth because upon the Day of His return it is Judgment Day. What on earth is there for Christ to reign over in Person for a thousand years when this earth and all reprobates are cast into the Lake of Fire on that Day?

70 weeks were fully fulfilled. I think it is pretty easy chronologically. Jesus dies AFTER the 69th week is done (Daniel 9:26a) so when did his ministry start? My reasons to say Jesus’ ministry started at the beginning of the 70th week is for these reasons. 1. He died AFTER the 69th week was over and after means after. If 69 weeks is over it puts his ministry into the 70th week. 2. The word ‘he’ in verse 27 has an antecedent to a previous noun so WHO caused the sacrifices and oblations to cease? Has to be someone already mentioned in the text so we know it isn’t a future antichrist that isn’t even mentioned in the text and added in by dispensationalists. We already know the people of the prince that is to come was Titus historically. He literally became a prince over night in AD 70 when his father left Jerusalem’s siege and went back to Rome to be the new Caesar (king) which makes Titus a prince immediately. 3. The word CEASE in verse 27 is not a forceful word like the dispensational premill people teach, the word is SHABAT where we get Sabbath. It is clear Jesus put to REST (SHABAT; cease; no longer needed) the sacrifices. So if Jesus’ ministry started at the beginning of the 70th week, and He became the 4th passover, that puts his death in the 487th year of the 490 year prophecy. That leaves 3 to 3.5 years left. The prophecy concerned the Jews and Jesus said to preach the gospel to the Jews first. So my last 3 to 3.5 years of the 490 years was the time it took the apostles to preach to all of Judaea and I believe when God sent Peter to Cornelius and the Gentiles and he was the leader, the gospel was finally going to the Gentiles. James took over the head pastor in Jerusalem when Peter began missionary work to the Gentiles. When the apostles were done with an area, others were put into leadership so they could go to the next group of people. To me this makes all the sense in the world. There are no other gaps in any other properties and the church never had a gap until the time of Irving and Darby and others they had conferences with int he early part of the 1800’s. The only view I feel is heretical is the dispensational premillennial view because they teach going back to animal sacrifices with Jesus at the helm for sin atonement thus Jesus denying Himself. I am okay with any other view. A-mill makes the most sense to me. And I noticed someone in the comments said no one was A-mill in the early church. I knwo most of the church over the first 1800 years was A-mill, maybe not in the first three centuries but nobody int he first three centuries taught dispensationalism and nobody taught a pre-trib rapture (some taught pre-wrath) and nobody taught going back to animal sacrifices which would have been considered heretical and reason to kick people out of the church. Any attack on the blood of Jesus being eternal is demonic and I am not afraid to say that. Someone may ask, how do we reconcile the extra 37 years? What if there are TWO time indicators in this prophecy because of overlap. The regular 490 years and then the time of testing. WE know historically the Jews went back to animal sacrifices and a Biblical generation is 30-40 years. I call this the Stay of Execution. Jesus gave that generation EXTRA time to repent. The passage never says those extra years were part of the 490 year prophecy. Verse 26b seems to be added in yet not necessarily part of the 490 years. and the people of the prince THAT SHALL COME shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 40 YEARS OF ABOMINATIONS brought many desolations upon those that rejected Jesus as the Messiah. Going back to animal sacrifices was blasphemous at this point. A little known fact is under Emperor Julian he commanded the Jews to go back in build another temple in AD 361. What did God think of that? God sent tornados, fire from beneath and earthquakes every time they got so far in building and some Jews and workers were killed and Julian died in AD 363 and they gave up. if God allows a temperature to be rebuilt again, all I can say is it isn’t going to be pretty for those that do it and those (many many Christians) that donate to it. It is coming against the sacrifice of Jesus in the worst kind of way and will be the greatest apostasy one could possibly do and name the name of Christ.

Yeah, I guess it DOES become really simple if you grant yourself the exegetical license to twist scripture around to mean whatever you want. It's hard work to harmonize the 25% of the entire bible into one coherent hermeneutic.....while allowing Israel to enjoy her promised earthly kingdom.

Deepening darkness of you tube

My questions- when and why is satan unbound? Do we expect the “short season” of tribulation at the end to look like anything? How do you interpret passages in Isaiah that speak to the millennial period? I was raised dispensationalist, and current events pushed me to study up. I could find no basis for multiple comings of Jesus and took it a step forward. I don’t find that any view is in line with what I see 100% in scripture, I still have many questions.

From now on please refer to me as subscriber 228

Is the school free? Oh its a seminary I forgot. I once went to a church which had a Ministerial academy that was part of the Church and free for those who felt called to the office of Pastor. Very biblical. I can not understand why this is not more prevelant in Christianity I struggle with. At any rate the Amillenialist position is clearly what the new testament teaches. No doubt about it. One text in Revelation is not a filter or primary text to build an eschatology upon. Bad heremeneutucs. Remove Revelation 20:1-4 and you have absolutely no reference found anywhere in holy scripture that suggests some golden literal or spiritual state of affairs on this earth. The simplest view is usually the most likely to be accurate. The simplicity of the apostolic faith and doctrine in the primitive church has been obfuscated by the mischievously active unsanctified minds of men. The rule of thumb is we interpret the one by the many not the many by the one. When this is done we do not find any corroboration by any writer of the new testament including the words of our Lord. With respect to Sam Storms beware he is an active charismatic and believes that signs and wonders and revelations are all alive in the church today. Storms does not subscribe to sola scriptura or the absolute sufficiency and finality of scripture. The false faith of the so called charismatic calvinist must be rejected as a deception of Satan. Clounterfeit charismatic manifestation is a mark of Satan. Matthew 24:24; Mark 1322; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-14; Revelation 13:7-16; 16:13; 19:20; 2 Corinthians 11:5-13. After all the elect are saved, Satan will deceive the nations, and the vast majority of prefessed Christianity will be apostate though they know it not. Matthew 7:13 14,21-23. Verses 21-23 typify those who have a false faith but because of their works believe otherwise. So too will there be myriads of such at the second coming. Also note the type of works, prophesying casting out demons etc. Exactly what pentecostal and charismatics do. Truth and a love and uncompromising obedient to it is the mark of a true believer and a true church not the embrace of error and false doctrine however devout one may seem to be. Test all things by the word of God and not by the look of a man. Beware of false prophets. Now that we have the whole and complete revelation of God as Sam also believes then we can know that anyone who makes claim to further revelation whether in prophetic form or tongue we can know that they are not to be received and welcomed into our fellowship. A warning of rebuke and a call to repentance is our sacred duty if we love our Lord and His truth.

The 70 Weeks of Daniel are completely fulfilled in everything Jesus Christ did. The killing of Stephen ended the Jewish Grace Time. AD 66-70 was rhe First big Wrath of God! The Gentile Time began as the Church!!! Easy!

A Millennium Puzzle to solve… The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29. My view of the Millennium agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. My view agrees with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. My view agrees with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing. The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. My view agrees with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage. There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. My view agrees with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness. My view agrees with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time. Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth.

Jesus fulfilled the 70 weeks... how can you be an expert on Scripture and not know that ?

Book of Job is Book of Revelation Revelation 12 All things of the Persecuted Church! Jesus Christ came, saw, and Conquers. Ecclesiastes is Cycles. Leviticus to the Gospels to Revelation shows 3 Harvests!!! A Pregnancy has 3 Terms. The Church Age on Old Earth is probably in Term 3!!! Labor Pains finality soon. The Two Ages Jewish Age Old Testament to the Stoning of Stephen. Gentiles Age Acts 1 - now. Revelation 21 is the hope for all who accept the Cross of Calvary and follow Jesus Christ. Death is fully done , thrown in Lake of Fire at the end. The Last Enemy. So easy!!! You have two Wraths or sources of tribulation. You have Satan's Wrath and rhen God's Wrath. The worst Wrath of all is being thrown into the Lake of Fire for eternity. Maybe this is "The Greatest Tribulation". John 3:16-28 keeps you out of this final Wrath of God.

Bogus dispensationalism Theology. Justification by faith alone. -God and His Christ.

Er, what scripture(s) support a figurative hermeneutic for the Lord's second coming? The prophecies about His first advent were literal. WHERE is the Biblical support for this monumental change concerning His second coming?

Honestly I am more confused than ever. I don't know what the long religious terms mean. So this is NOT Escatology made simple. Unfortunately

It's even simpler, it's ALL historical. Regenerated reformed full preterist here! Daniel 12, about 650 years to it's fulfillment. Daniel told to seal up the words as it was way off. Revelation 22, don't seal up for the time is near. Matthew 24, Jesus was speaking to them then not us now. Those of us who are filled with the Holy Spirit are the New covenant Israel, back in communion with God! The whole NT leads us clearly! God bless, take a look brother!

The early church fathers were premillennial. None of them were amillennial ... none!

Amillennialism made simple and wrong. This is replacement theology, plain and simple. Apparently, we can just throw out the Old Testament and the promises that God made to Israel. If God does not fulfill ALL the promises that He gave to Israel then how can we have any confidence that He will keep the promises that He made for all believers?

I know it may not seem right, or it may even seem presumptuous or, worse, unloving, but to me PERSONALLY, Amillennials, and especially Preterists, do not believe in the inspiration of scripture and are mainly scholars interpreting a literary piece and have found their niche. Sadly, and again just to me, and fortunately I am in the minority and likely wrong, but I am convinced they are completely unsaved.

As a Historical Millennialist, I believe the original language of understanding Scripture. The Early Church writings give a much stronger evidence that the A-mills are descendants of the Sadducees and the Gnostics and spoken of by Paul in 2Timothy 2:18; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 and in 1 Corinthians 15 of their attacks on the resurrection. John references Daniel 7 where it parallels the duration of Christ’s reign over the antichrist’s dominions for a season and a time, in Revelation 20, John tells you what that duration is, a thousand years. Justin martyr speaks of these early Amills as deceivers of the truth. For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly consider it, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genistae, Meristae, Galilaeans, Hellenists, Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews (do not hear me impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are [only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare. The evidence Scripturally that Christ will reign over the nations is overwhelmingly clear and the Amill position is clearly heretical to alter the original language of Scripture to deceive God’s people as Jesus foretold in the Olivet discourse.

Amillennialism cancels out biblical scripture.

These guys simply dont understand what premillennialism is thats why they are so confused

amil is simply wrong.