Ep 36: An Interview with Bernardo Kastrup: UFOs, Ultraterrestrials, and Meaning In Absurdity

Рет қаралды 18,499

Күн бұрын

In today’s episode, I had the absolute honor of speaking with one of my personal intellectual heroes, Bernardo Kastrup.
Bernardo Kastrup is the executive director of the Essentia Foundation. His work has been leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has a Ph.D. in philosophy (with a focus in ontology and philosophy of mind) and another Ph.D. in computer engineering (with a focus in reconfigurable computing and artificial intelligence). As a scientist, Bernardo has worked for the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) and the Philips Research Laboratories (where the 'Casimir Effect' of Quantum Field Theory was discovered). He has also had a 25-year career in high-technology, having co-founded parallel processing company Silicon Hive (which was acquired by Intel in 2011).
Bernardo Kastrup is also the author of 11 books. I basically have an entire Kastrup shelf inmy office. His book, “Meaning In Absurdity: What Bizarre Phenomena Can Tell Us About the Nature of Reality” is, in my opinion, one of the most important books written on the UFO phenomenon. I can’t recommend it highly enough.
Just a heads up before we begin-if you aren’t familiar with Kastrup’s thinking on analytic idealism, the first part of this interview might be a little challenging. If you stick it out, I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how elegantly analytic idealism deals with some of the more mysterious aspects of the anomalous phenomena. If you’d like to learn more about analytic idealism, there are some great resources and videos that can walk you through it step-by-step. [Links in episode brief.]
EPISODE BRIEF: uforabbithole.com/podcast/ep-...
[Links to videos on Analytic Idealism in Episode Brief]
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TIMESTAMP
00:00:30 Introduction
00:04:35 How working with artificial neural networks at CERN led Bernardo to break with physicalism
00:07:12 The difference between intelligence and consciousness
00:08:36 Analytic idealism
00:12:26 How does analytic idealism relate to the ideas of Donald Hoffman?
00:14:38 If the world is mental, why doesn’t it behave like a dream?
00:17:23 Bernardo’s UFO experience
00:19:37 How UFOs repel our attention
00:23:02 Memory and UFOs
00:25:46 UFOs and analytic idealism
00:30:09 Logic and finding meaning in absurdity
00:35:11 The “call of the absurd” and the control mechanism
00:39:27 How marketing and propaganda hijack the control mechanism
00:42:47 Are “nuts and bolts” UAPs and high strangeness UFO encounters the same phenomenon?
00:48:44 Bernardo’s ultraterrestrial hypothesis
00:58:37 The rise of AI, NHIs, and the coming consciousness shift

Пікірлер: 125

@patrickdelarosa7743 4 ай бұрын

I can’t get enough of Bernardo, listening to his thoughts is just a bliss, thank you for the interview.

@MultiFrishman 4 ай бұрын

Bernardo is a B E A S T and a Saint to sacrifice himself, his time, talking in this unique way we can feel what he says as being naturally close to us, and he becomes close to us as well! Blessing Bernardo

@mikeking9373 4 ай бұрын

Kelly, another home run, right out of the stadium! You always ask very good questions and let your guests speak without interruption. Today, you gave Kastrup the opportunity to explain analytical idealism in a way that your listeners (at least this one) could understand. As well as to show how this theory allows for nature to have a bizarre and unexpected side. You both expressed yourselves very well. I will definitely listen to this interview again. Thank you!

@gloriaharbin1131 4 ай бұрын

Thanks Kelly, appreciate you and your work. I’m a Bernardo “groupie” as well.

@_WeDontKnow_ 4 ай бұрын

this interview only got better as it went on. I could've easily gone for another 2 hours! great questions and insight, I'm a huge fan of Bernardo

@fawnmillercoaching6380 4 ай бұрын

YESSS!!! I’m a MEGA-FAN of both of you - can’t wait to absorb the brilliance & profundity of this episode🙏😊🙌

@bodystorm 3 ай бұрын

I’ve been Bernardo fan for a number of years and this is by far the best interview I’ve heard. I’ve scoured his books and previous interviews in a quest to find information that this interview compressed in an enlightening 60 mins or so.

@youtubecanal 4 ай бұрын

Great guest and talk. Thank you both for sharing this thoughts.

@jupiterthesun3217 4 ай бұрын

What an amazing mind ! 👍, Mr Kastrup’s views are so logical and hearing what he has to say really opens up my eyes to the possibilities.

@DNihilHEAVYIndustries 2 ай бұрын

I love your podcast and have actually watched almost "?" every episode. And i have enjoyed them all! Keep up the great investigative journalism!!

@gayle63mph Ай бұрын

Incredible conversation. Bernardo’s thoughts on the phenomenon are the most plausible that I’ve heard. Thank you both for the hard work you do.

@wallywampa 4 ай бұрын

I found you via the interveiw with Dian Psulka and have been listening since. You intro is awesome, too! Pulls me in like the 80s shows "The Storyteller" or "Amazing Stories."

@akira28shima32 4 ай бұрын

Great job Kelly!!! Love this!!

@cirquedude123 4 ай бұрын

Thank you so much! I’m a recent fan of you and your show, I had something happen to me as well, it was so simple visually speaking, yet what I experienced was obviously nothing that could be explained so simply.

@distractionsinthewind9976 4 ай бұрын

Thank you Kelly! Great guest! Your podcast has opened minds to many possibilities!

@marianneverhe2517 4 ай бұрын

Thank you, wonderfull conversation! I will be back for more!

@get2dachoppa18 4 ай бұрын

Bernardo is fantastic. You gotta get Tom Campbell on sometime too. He and Bernardo have done a few discussions, and they have some similar ideas. I think they differ on what is fundamental to the self and reincarnation as a result. Its exciting to see people of science presenting nondual ideas as very real possibilities, and not just the spiritual gurus who know it experientially.

@billyoumans1784 4 ай бұрын

Brilliant, fascinating interview, Kelly. I’m a huge admirer of Bernardo Kastrup. I didn’t know he is interested in the phenomenon. This interview opens doors I hardly imagined.

@tralalablip 2 ай бұрын

when I saw a huge daylight UAP back in the early 90s along with countless others in the western suburbs of Sydney, I was so shocked that my girlfriend at the time and her parents (who also witnessed this) shrugged it off and turned on the TV.

@CJ-cd5cd 4 ай бұрын

Awesome interview. Your questions pulled out the best of Kastrup.

@carolyncarson1671 3 ай бұрын

Listening to BK is so therapeutic as he articulates so well the human experience. Immense gratitude for his work. Embrace the mystery humanity! Collectively find our humility to admit - we don't know so much, more than we do know.

@1stmoviefan 2 ай бұрын

"You are not supposed to be here" this means we are complicit in this experience.

@BradleyGeorge-uc1eo 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for what you are doing, big media is totally absent on this subject - unfortunately we live within a military junta.

@rossmcleod7983 4 ай бұрын

I had to wait for the right time to fully engage with this episode, did multiple backtracking and will continue to put this episode on high rotation, many thanks again Kelly. What a man for our times, BK is an extraordinary communicator of difficult perceptions.

@Billythekid_2308 4 ай бұрын

His explanation for the Ultraterreatrials hypothesis was perfect!

@tannhauser5399 2 ай бұрын

Jacques Vallee and his trilogy books entered the chat: "Dimension", "Confrontations", "Revelations"... I think Bernardo is also familiar with that material, as sometimes he was talking about Vallee in different interviews. And there is of course different kind of research, but in a way similar - regarding conciousness: research done by: Peter Fenwick regarding the process of dying (from research in hospitals, hospices, talking with professionals, doctors, nurses, patients), Pim van Lommel... or even reach from Donald Hoffman. So whatever is happening, some kind of controling/influencing mechanism that can display itself under various objects/entities (or whatever you want to call it) - and it is projecting itself in many different variations, including one based on your believes, uprising, growing up, or global technogical level and so on (especially when considering Fenwick's research or even observations from Vallee). And you always have stories about people being taken to a different realms, classic folklore legends about various entities (also ones including lost time), fairy tales (Janet Bord had a good book about it: "Fairies - real encounters with little people" (with definitely an "UFO" connection there). So there is always something common there, you just have to look at the more data, not just an "UFO", or "Fairies", or "Angels" or other old legends/myths, or even what is happening when we are dying... I think this is part of the same large phenomenon, including which is manifesting itself under different things. Not in every case of course, but often enough. Especially if you have been working in a hospital, or hospice for a while and partly you are familiar with those stories. All of that in a little bit could also points to virtualization/simulation or some kind of large conciousness that we are part of for a short time (kind of like our body is a large TV set, and the true signal is comming from somewhere else, but there is stil something out there that is "keeping an eye" on all of that).

@jimmycychowski1142 4 ай бұрын

I very much enjoyed this episode, thank you Kelly. I'll share my experience, I haven't told many people about this publicly, privately obviously yes, anyway here it is. I had an experience when I was 16 (im 48 now) living in Sunbury at the time, with my parents, they had a nice house in a suburb in Victoria, long story short is I woke up at about 2/3am something told me, a voice in my head, to go outside and look up at the sky, so I did exactly that, walked out the side door, down 4 steps, walked into the backyard, and looked up, I saw something so mesmerizing, I wasn't scared, I was totally entranced, I Just stood there watched this huge camouflage looking object slowly hovering over my parents house, It was absolutely extraordinary, to this day I remember it, as a reality, not a dream, the object made a slight humming, whooshing sound, it definitely was an object. It wasn't clouds. It didn't move like clouds. After the object left my sight I just walked back inside and went back to sleep. I told my parents the next day and they said you must have had a vivid dream, and your grandma has those too. I wish I had followed the object further but I wasn't in control of this encounter.

@tristankelley8621 4 ай бұрын

A most excellent and progressive conversation, I'm really grateful! Part Deux is needed, thoughts on Vallee/Keel theories from both parties?

@leviastrohumdes 4 ай бұрын

Awesome interview 🎉

@whitneyinkster4251 4 ай бұрын

Wow, this was an amazing episode ❤ I resonated with Bernardo Kastrup’s views and explanations. Listening to this episode twice, love it so much. Thank you both!

@mrhwy9570 4 ай бұрын

Great episode!

@andyherod653 Ай бұрын

Gosh this was amazing. Thank you.

@MobiusBandwidth 4 ай бұрын

very interesting, definitely worth having listened to, thanks.

@UFO-Ark 2 ай бұрын

Thank you

@thinkingcitizen 4 ай бұрын

Bernardo is very much aligned with Hindu (Advaita Vedanta) philosophy…. I think it’s totally worth reading about both the philosophy and cosmological view of ancient India (hint hint it elaborates on aliens)

@ankitruparel1895 3 ай бұрын

He has already read everything and has admitted his conclusions and that of ancient Indian sages is the same.

@homerbeer943 3 ай бұрын

"Marketing is psychology for sociopaths". Thannk you for expressing this. Everyone knows that marketing is inherently dishonest but they seem to assume it's essentially harmless. It's not. By expressing this, it's like I've only now discovered I, not alone. You've made me want to find a community.

@halfacanuck 2 ай бұрын

Great interview, thanks! I recommend also Patrick Harpur, whose work Kastrup recently described as "criminally underappreciated".

@VictorFlores-hg2nu 4 ай бұрын

By the way good interview I appreciate this interesting topic you covered!!!!

@aofgreengables 19 күн бұрын

Thank you for your discussion of the occult and ascension. My Catholic grandmother threw out my Chariots of the Gods book. So I had to laugh. Thank you for making me smile with this Reese's Peanut butter cup of ufos and philosophy and so much more. I feel peaceful listening to you.

@chrisallard1819 4 ай бұрын

Brilliant - many thanks!

@pelicanpodcast 4 ай бұрын

Hoffman and Kastrup are both members of Essentia 😍

@lisabowden1679 4 ай бұрын

Always a fan. Im always hesitant to say that im an experiencer because i dont understand what it is that i experienced. Does that make sense? Its a lonely place. I really appreciate you. ❤

@OfficialGOD 4 ай бұрын

perfect interview ❤️

@olbluelips 4 ай бұрын

holy crap it's god

@DreamingGod05 4 ай бұрын

I don't know if Bernardo, or Kelly, read comments; but a book thst really put into perspective my views on UAPs and a mental reality is 'Daimonic Reality: A Field Guide to the Otherworld' by Patrick Harpur. It is an enlightening read.

@CJ-cd5cd 4 ай бұрын

Bernardo writes about Harpur in his book, Meaning and Absurdity. Harpur also did a KZfaq interview with the foundation run by Kastrup, the Essentia Foundation

@DreamingGod05 4 ай бұрын

@@CJ-cd5cd Well, thank you for the information! Looks like I have a new video to watch! Harpur's book felt like such a good picture of the phenomenon.

@CJ-cd5cd 4 ай бұрын

My pleasure! And I agree, Daimonic Reality is an excellent book

@4thlinemaniac356 4 ай бұрын

How could he have missed @ Mauro Biglino & the 5Th kind channels??? Typical ignorant shill??? They are here still controlling Us in Antarctica plus on the ancient space station We call the Moon.

@4thlinemaniac356 4 ай бұрын

@clif high channel Lunatics Never Look Up,El of a Situation,and Symptoms videos. More.

@diycraftq8658 4 ай бұрын

Music reminds me of black tapes podcast theme ultra cool and visuals awesome Episode today is A plus

@jeffnelson57 3 ай бұрын

Outstanding

@Murphdogg4 21 күн бұрын

Miss hearing you!

@PharadayKage 4 ай бұрын

Banger. 👌

@OfficialGOD 4 ай бұрын

Sweet thanks ❤

@jep6365 4 ай бұрын

On the ufo behaviour.aspect, I think it could be our subconscious doubting the reality of it.

@delublink127 4 ай бұрын

assalutely 🤘✨

@JulianH-co7qg 4 ай бұрын

Look at all the progress we've made in just 23 years since 2001. We have gps satellite technology, we have virtual reality, AI that can generate photos etc all this happened in just a short amount of time. Who's to say that an ancient civilization of humans couldn't have created the same technology or even better technology in just a short amount of time, once existed but was submerged under water due to a flood?

@franhab5539 4 ай бұрын

Love bernardo

@MrCerberum 4 ай бұрын

About the "disclosure" process, could it be an experiment, an attempt to change the phenomenon and make it look in a way that is suitable (weaponizable) for them?

@cybervigilante 2 ай бұрын

When are you coming back, Kelly? I keep checking... Bernardo is great and all, but I'm getting tired of seeing his face every time I check for a new post 🤪

@Kaliscetera 4 ай бұрын

23:55 I'm going to think about this for the next month now. Anyone else feel like they have a lost memory? I can't say that I do but I don't doubt Kastrup's intuition.

@OfficialGOD 4 ай бұрын

subtle memory

@docastrov9013 4 ай бұрын

I can remember when I was around 8 seeing a sprite climbing on a railway bridge over Arkwright St Nottingham Other people were pointing and remarking on it. Like an elfen creature. I was about to say this guy is crazy until I thought of that.

@TommyMissus 4 ай бұрын

43:35 whoa this the first time I've heard someone say it's two diff things like I've been sayin, I paused at 43:59, I'll be shocked if he says what I'm about to say. I always thought ufos were ET, and orbs were the phenomena. The phenomenon it ANCIENT compared to the ETs. So the ETs wanna study it wherever it goes. It just so happens to be here on earth, and we're just caught in the middle. No one even cares about us it's just ETs wanna learn even more about life so they are here to study the phenomenon

@allcaps2888 4 ай бұрын

Loved, commenting and subbed. Patreon is next.

@TheUFORabbitHolePodcast 4 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@gregb8796 Ай бұрын

40:00 would the Travis Walton incident be taking in account for this claim or nah?

@OfficialGOD 4 ай бұрын

29:00

@bhaskarbagchi1643 4 ай бұрын

UAPs are probably a hundred different things?

@Alex-hs1hy 4 ай бұрын

29:00 minute mark was wild!! Makes me think uap is like us an intelligence with physical body like us but has consciousness “mind” like us. We just mentally disassociate when we see them. To me seems like when we happen to see “them” for what ever reason we short circuit mentally 😂. There probably like why do you guys always freak out when you see us 😂.

@vayasaberlo8 4 ай бұрын

🎉🎉🎉🎉❤

@cybervigilante 4 ай бұрын

Kastrup is in line with my thinking on the subject, although he's more well-spoken 🤪 But I partially disagree that computers can't be conscious. Computers, per se, cannot, but in robot bodies that can interact with reality and have sensory systems, they can. After all, as Kastrup says, consciousness is "out there" in the universe. You gain it by interacting with the universe. Babies aren't conscious until about 3 - when all the exploring, stumbling, and handling suddenly "wakes up." I even recall when I woke up around 3, after seeing a turtle in a bucket in a neighbor's yard. Also, earth-aliens did indeed evolve millions of years before us on this planet, and their science is now magic. The big dinos died, but the small ones became intelligent and are riding around in the UFOs. The smartest man I knew, with an odd sensory system, and many other people, see lizard folk masking as us. Also, there is no "thing in itself." Kant was wrong. Everything is just its Connections to other things. That's why the key is Graph Theory - which is all about connections. There is a higher level of graph where we are nodes in that graph. There is indeed "control" from this superset via Bias, but not direct edge-connection. But a control system has Feedback, so we are part of the system. That is why UFOs appear different in different eras - different feedback from us. It is an I-Thou thing. Also, some of the crashed saucers are "salted" or donated, and will suddenly disappear after a number of years. They are Potemkin creations. They seem to have advanced capabilities - but that is only to spur us to actually create the capabilities. To disabuse us of the idea that such things cannot be, due to our current incomplete physics. However, life on other planets is a certainty since DNA is an aspect of space itself - so life occurs wherever it can. Then it evolves, not just via external evolution, but also via Intragenomic Gaming. And the reason people "forget" UFO experiences isn't because aliens wipe their memory. It's because they experience the incomprehensible, cannot process it, and so can't recall it. Eventually, they may build a screen memory, accessed via hypnosis - but it is just a translation of what really occurred. After all, the stories people bring back may have a general agreement, but vary widely in their details - which are often contradictory.

@CJ-cd5cd 4 ай бұрын

You need to read Kastrup

@kevinbyrne3012 4 ай бұрын

Babies aren't conscious until they are 3? So they don't feel any emotion or have any awareness before they are 3? I suppose it depends on your definition of consciousness. You can experience consciousness without realising or remembering it

@CJ-cd5cd 4 ай бұрын

@@kevinbyrne3012 Exactly, there is a difference between phenomenal consciousness and self consciousness. Even if we are talking strictly about self consciousness, the idea that babies/children aren't self conscious until 3 is NOT correct. There is evidence in developmental psychology that infants have a rudimentary sense of differentiation between themselves and the environment w/in the first several months of life.

@cybervigilante 3 ай бұрын

@@kevinbyrne3012 Well, self-aware, anyway. I clearly recall the instant I became self-aware.

@cybervigilante 3 ай бұрын

@@CJ-cd5cd So bears and dogs are self-conscious by your reasoning. Let's use the term "awakening," then. I clearly recall when I woke up. Until then I has senses but was not centered.

@VitorSantos-ib5dn 3 ай бұрын

Bernardo Kastrup believes that we are the body, and nothing else, and that our body is a mental construction of a being that is the true and only ontological being that exists. Therefore, it adds nothing to an earthly human being to what metaphysical materialism says. If I believe that I am the physical body, and nothing else, what does it matter to me what the physical body is, or the universal consciousness? I would just be a postponed corpse, which the universal consciousness would have mentally conceived for its own benefit, not caring about the suffering it caused. Suffering may be a mental construct of universal consciousness. But for me, it's real. If we consider suffering illusory we become psychopaths!

@lukeskywalker7461 4 ай бұрын

I don't often disagree with BK, but I don't believe he is correct about print media being more sober in its attempt to use propaganda before the WW2.

@rickebrite5409 8 күн бұрын

I think Kelly is beautiful WoW

@BAD_CONSUMER 4 ай бұрын

Video starts at 4:45

@stevewohlrab1608 4 ай бұрын

waves interact with each other on the surface and there are currents and treasures within its depths ...but it's all one ocean

@tomhickey711 4 ай бұрын

This sounds similar to the teachings in hermetic works like the Kybalion. The universe is mental and we may be splinters of a greater consciousness.

@plafar7887 4 ай бұрын

Kastrup does lose the plot sometimes. His whole diatribe on UFOs taking different shapes 'because they are mental phenomena' is just nonsensical. UFO reports are diverse because people add a layer of interpretation when they report them, not because the phenomena themselves take the shape of some cultural trend or an aspect of the collective unconscious. The videos that came out from the Navy/Defense Department in recent years have all been analyzed and deconstructed. There's no evidence of anything remotely weird about them.

@CJ-cd5cd 4 ай бұрын

So we’ve got it all figured out? Who’s in possession of this alleged objective knowledge of what these things are?

@plafar7887 4 ай бұрын

@@CJ-cd5cd The videos have been debunked as showing nothing that requires an extraterrestrial explanation.

@CJ-cd5cd 4 ай бұрын

@@plafar7887ok, but Kastrup is not saying they’re ET either. Even if they’re not ET, doesn’t mean they’re not capable of high strangeness. Nobody actually knows what these things are, at the end of the day.

@plafar7887 4 ай бұрын

ez@@CJ-cd5cd Maybe I didn't explain myself too well. We do know, with very high likelihood, what's in those videos. In fact, in one of them we know with near 100% certainty.

@CJ-cd5cd 4 ай бұрын

@@plafar7887who is the “we” you are referring to, and where can I find this information that demonstrates with near 100% certainty what these are?