Epoch 460AH Monster lithium battery with Victron Comms first test report

Epoch 460AH Monster lithium battery with Victron Comms first test report - Plus 10% off code below

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8 ай бұрын

* 10% odd code* Great news! Epoch has generously allowed a discount code for MV Intrigue watchers. Use discount code MVINTRIGUE for 10% off your purchase!
Here is a link to Epoch batteries: www.epochbatteries.com/?rfsn=...
See the latest video on how to properly hook up the Victron Coms in daisy chain to properly communicate with the Cerbo GX • Epoch Lithium 920AH!! ...
Link to NMEA to VE can cable amzn.to/3RSD6fk
*IMPORTANT UPDATE* One thing I just became aware of is that this particular batter has a 500 amp class T fuse INSIDE of it with an AIC rating of 50k. That's a game changer and something I have never seen before. Please go see Ben Stein's video over at Panbo channel to watch his teardown of this battery.
*Update 1* After receiving the needed cable to complete the daisy chaining of the comm cables we now have the proper communication with the Cerbo GX. Please see this video for instruction on how to hook this up and what you should see in the Cerbo GX. • Epoch Lithium 920AH!! ...
*Update 2* As others have said in the comments the expected way to hook these up would be by daisy chaining the comm cables from one battery to the next and then to the Cerbo GX and terminating ends either via the dip switches of terminator plugs. This would show both batteries on the Device list on the Cerbo. I was not able to do that at this time. I do expect additional info soon regarding that and will update when I have that. But for now the configuration appears to be working fine for me in the interim. I have some additional cables and other items on order to try additional configurations. I will add more info later.
* Update 3* My Lynx Power In actually does have fuses. Apparently they dont come that way. I purchased this stuff used so the previous installed must have added the extra parts needed. I must say I do like it this way. However if I plan to use them I will need to add sheathing to the cables as per ABYC
I need to first put two disclaimers on this video.
1) I apologize for the quality of this video. Its choppy and a bit disjointed. Normally I would refine the information and go through a process to attempt to make a halfway watchable video. Unfortunately due to several factors and a computer that no longer wants to process large amounts of footage I was forced to put this version out. However I decided to publish anyways since many have asked me to show my progress with the Epoch 460AH batteries with the Victron components. My hope is to simply help others along and share the little bit of info I have gathered.
2) Please do not take this information as correct. You must do your own research and come to your own conclusions prior to making any purchases or installing your own equipment. Systems such as the one shown in this video can be very complex and if not done right, dangerous as well. You will have to form your own mental picture and technical understanding in regards to a complex system such as this. There are many resources to gather this knowledge and you can reach out to Victron and Epoch for additional details.
If you spot something that is incorrect or something that could be refined, by all means please comment below. Even though this video is long and contains lots of information, it is actually the tip of the iceberg as far as Victron capabilities goes. My goal is to simply describe how something like two of the 460ah Epoch batteries will be set up and USED daily on a boat or RV with Victron equipment. With some additional learning and discussion I think we can eventually boil that down to some simple instruction. So feel free to add to this topic. Thanks for watching and I hope you feel more confidant in deploying a similar system for your own uses.
Al

Пікірлер: 97

@alexanderbdeguzman 3 ай бұрын

This is a great video! Just seeing it all laid out and a summary of each component has helped me understand the basics of what it’s supposed to do. You kept it in the realm of normal and not getting to informative to lose my head. Thanks man!

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 3 ай бұрын

No problem

@CruisingThisOldBoat 8 ай бұрын

Wow ! That’s a lot of information! But it gives me a much better understanding of how the system works. Thanks for a the work you put into making it easier for the rest of us.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

It was a ton to cover..lol

@BoatGuyBill 8 ай бұрын

Al, thanks so much for posting this video! I am the Build Manager for a boat manufacturer, and we are specifying full Victron setups on our customers’ Li house boats. But we all know that Victron batteries are one of the most expensive options. So late breaking info on banks using good alternatives, like Epoch, is key. Plus, I am VERY interested in moving to Li on my 40yo trawler by next spring. Thanks again for being a good source, and not being scared of not having all the answers. Cheers.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

I definitely don't have all the answers for this stuff lol. The Victron stuff does so much, and Epoch is working with Victron to refine the package. There are just a few things to work out which I am sure will come in the next few weeks. I have a few things on order to try to get the systems hooked up via daisy chaining the batteries. It seems that is the only remaining issue. Several have already done workarounds by plugging one batt into the Can BMS port and the other into VE Can and changing the port speed to 500kps from 250. This video is just a place to share info and best practices. So if you make any discoveries, by all means share them here and I will try them and make another video to share.

@murp0443 8 ай бұрын

The Cerbo GX has two BMS CAN ports. Can we not simply plug these batteries into those two ports with RJ-45 cables?

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

@murp0443 thats what I am doing now and it seems to be working. The splitter was just a test to see if you could hook up 4 via two can bms ports. But in that configuration I am not sure if all controls and warnings work appropriately since only 1 battery shows up on the device list. It may have issues over time. It seems the appropriate way is to daisy chain one battery to the next and then to a single bms can plug on Cerbo and then terminate the open spot with a termination plug. You should then see every battery on the device list and the info used by the Cerbo should be correct. I have so.e cables on order to do some tests and Epoch is working on this and should update soon.

@kolobcreek 3 ай бұрын

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 what kind of splitter is it? Link?

@johnalberto7855 5 ай бұрын

Thanks for your time and accomplishments with Victron. I also have been reading and researching Victron products for over a year now and always learn something new. Recently purchased Victron's product line for an electrical sailboat retrofit which should be very interesting, when completed I plan to have the installation ABYC certified. Take care looking forward to your next video.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 5 ай бұрын

Thank you! Good luck with your project. Sounds like fun!

@outoftexasRev7v9 6 ай бұрын

Thanks much for putting in all the work!

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 6 ай бұрын

Glad it came in handy!

@LibertyTrawler 8 ай бұрын

Thanks for all your hard work!,,

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

No problem. Always glad to share and help.

@FBall-im8ui 5 ай бұрын

Well explained, honest opinions as he stated "IN MY OPINION" so learned a few things for my Van build. no longer havE MY SAILBOAT i only charter now hahahahah Thnaks

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 5 ай бұрын

I try to say that because I don't want anyone to think I have everything figured out or that I am closed off to additional information. Even since I made this video I have learned a TON more..lol.

@frankcastellano9890 2 ай бұрын

fascinating. im in awe of how you get non victron batteries to be read by the cerbo gx. it would be a great help to me if you could show how its done please.

@MartinAbresch 2 күн бұрын

Is it possible to connect the RJ45 labeled "Victron" on the 12V 460Ah battery directly to one of the two VE.Bus RJ45's on the Victron MultiPlus-II and have the battery to control the charge settings, or do you need the Cerbo GX?

@joesmith1142 7 ай бұрын

great video. Another fantastic resource (Victron focused) is Explorist Life. Its van build but i agree, i think the RV guys are really contributing a wealth of insight into these systems right now. Fun times for boat and offgrid systems...

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 7 ай бұрын

It sure is! Lots of amazing new stuff to keep me occupied.

@yellowiron584 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the videos. I used your discount code and ordered the batteries. I ended up with a Mastervolt 3500 Inverter charger, but everything else is similar to what you have. Hoping that mixing the Mastervolt into the Victorn system doesn’t create a issue. Using Garmin Chart plotters and the victron CerboGX screen as you have.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 6 ай бұрын

Very cool! Glad I could help!

@AVMAR 5 ай бұрын

Why did you go with MasterVolt because more charging amps?

@yellowiron584 5 ай бұрын

@@AVMARWell, let’s just say I wanted a 3500w INV/Charger unit and found a reasonable price on it thinking it would all run nicely off the NMEA network. Got it installed this weekend, and having a mixed system works, but doesn’t communicate together as hoped. All in all, happy with it but next time I’d stay with one brand, either go Victron or MV. Still playing around with it, and I added the Victron Shunt to be sure I am getting all needed information.

@bobt1931 8 ай бұрын

Very interesting video. I learned a lot and am relatively new to the lithium conversion process. I have installed a Victron SmartShunt and Smart Orion DC-DC charged on my RV in preparation for a lithium battery bank. Still running FLA for now until next summer. My current plan is to use Battleborn batteries, but I have to say the Epoch have peaked my interest. Does Epoch recommend that battery discharge be limited to 20% and charging to less than 100%? I have been trying to get the owners manuals on their batteries for comparison to Battleborn but so far have not been able to find them on their website. Also, curious why you didn't connect your power out and negative to the shunt from the Lynx to the end of the buss bar that is covered with tape in the video.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

Epoch did not specifically recommend the 20-90% SOC range. Your total life cycle will be affected somewhat by what SOC upper and lower limits you use. But you have to weight that against your needs for the battery. If you are off grid with solar you will probably find your SOC all over the map due to vary sunshine. But if you just go out for a night or two I would top them to 100% before disconnecting from shore power. I will let my mission dictate what those upper and lower limits are. My gold cart gets charged to 100% almost always because I want the range. But if my goal was the maximize the lifespan of the batts I might stay between 20-80%. BTW, I did a discharge the other night with a high amp load all the way to 0 SOC and it did great. As far as location of buss bars or any other item, this was just pieced together on the bench for testing. I will figure out the best and most compact package when it goes in the boat. All of the wires seen here were previously made. When I install this I will be making all wires etc. One other pint. I have another video coming tomorrow that will go over the proper hook up to daisy chain the comms. That is working great too.

@daviddorsey8754 7 ай бұрын

Love your effort,. One thing puzzled me, why use splitter for input to cerbo gx, I belive plugging both in gx direct would give better individual readings and probably more accurate summary reading, GX is a computer and should be able to accomplish that. Each bat has shunt built in thus effectively eliminating external shunt, Just my opinion.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 7 ай бұрын

On the splitter, i just wanted to see if it would work. Check my latest video to see how it really is supposed to be hooked up. In this video, I was waiting on a special cable so I could properly daisy chain the batteries. On the shunt question, yes, each battery has a shunt, but I already had the Victron shunt, so I just used it alongside the internal shunts. . I'm glad I did because shunt reading is a very rough estimate at times. By comparing both shunt details I feel I have a better picture. In addition, once installed in the boat, I could select either shunt as the batt monitor in the cerbo. Ill likely leave it installed when I put it in the boat just for redundancy of operation as well as information.

@daviddorsey8754 7 ай бұрын

Really nice set up!.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 7 ай бұрын

Thanks. It should work well.

@a2022z2 8 ай бұрын

Great testing. Talked to the Epoch support. They indicated that the 480 Ah version would have some advantages when it comes to ABYC E-13 recommendation of early warning. Have you noticed a difference in your testing?

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

Well, I did a deep discharge a few days ago all the way to 0. As 20% SOC I got a warning. Then at 10% SOC I got a warning. You can also get many other warnings as well such as cell imbalance, overvoltage etc. Then if they are coupled to Victron equipment you can set up many of your own warnings. So with a battery of this type coupled to Victron I would say it meets E-13. There are some warnings for electrical systems that just cant take place fast enough to cover all scenarios. Things like unexpected shorts or component failure could be instantaneous under many circumstances. I dont think you could do better that this.

@a2022z2 8 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Thanks for getting back. The varning is not really mandatory for E-13. But battery or cell has to be tested, listed accordingly to one of following standards. The 300Ah is accordingly to the web site. They say nothing about the 480Ah? IEC 62133 IEC 62619 IEC 62620 SAE J2929 UL 1642 UL 1973 UL 2054

@ruonbg 7 ай бұрын

Can you share a link to the CAN Bus cable from the battery? I'm assuming that it's the VE.Can to NMEA 2000 micro-C male cable that's on the Victron site.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 7 ай бұрын

Sure. Ill do it when I get home. I usually try to put stuff like that in the description below the video. But I checked and its not there It will be there tonight. I have to check where I purchased from.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 7 ай бұрын

Ok I added the link. It was exactly the item you stated.

@DOO718 8 ай бұрын

So technically if the Epoch read the -1 amp draw you really wouldn't need the Victron shunt (or want it?!) That's pretty cool. I think I understand the entire Victron ecosystem better than I do those Dip switches. for some reason the way they word those things makes my brain short circuit. haha

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

The 1 amp threshold may or may not even be an issue. I think on an operational boat it would be rare to stay in that range. But of course I wont know that until its installed and operational. I had the shunt so I will be installing it. But again if you plug in the smart batteries and set it up the shunt is not used. However I like having it as a back up.

@barryg.291 3 ай бұрын

I think I heard you say that you plan to run the bilge pumps off of the LiFe batteries. Doesn't that mean you can never turn off the batts with the remote push button switch.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 3 ай бұрын

I cant think of a time when I would turn the batteries off other than to perform maintenance. But you do bring up a good point. I think I may split the bilge pumps. I have an normal bilge pump and an emergency. I think it may be a good idea to have the normal on the lithium and the emergency on the start bank.

@rjoustra1150 8 күн бұрын

Quick question. In my current setup I have two large batteries. You mentioned Positive and Negatives being the same length. The installer made the round trip the same based on orientation. Meaning one of my positive cables is the same length as my one of my negative cables and the other battery is the opposite. When I asked about it he said it is the round trip length of cable in total. Is this a good method or should I buy some more cable and change it. All cabling goes to common busbars for positive and negatives and then all cabling to the inverters are exactly the same length on both sides of the equation.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 күн бұрын

Actually I think that probably fine. If you draw a decent sized load just look at the app and make sure amps relatively equal in thier load sharing. They will never be perfect...but if they are close thats good enough. For instance one batt pulling 60 amps and the other 61 amps...close enough.

@rjoustra1150 6 күн бұрын

TY, One other question if you don't mind. I am full-time and will be swapping these out for my existing batteries. The manual says do not connect them to my system until they are fully charged. Is this really necessary or as long as I stay on shore power until they are full charged I should be fine? (minimal 12 VDC draw) I have 2 multiplus and 2100 watts of solar and thought they would do the best job bringing them up to charge especially connected to the Cerbo. Thoughts?

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 6 күн бұрын

@@rjoustra1150 If your in parallel its not all that critical. Series it is super critical. If you can turn the charge amps down a bit to say....20 amps per batt for the last 5% that would be good. But as long as you use the 13.9 absorb and 13.5 float you will be ok.

@murp0443 8 ай бұрын

Question, if you still have these two available to test something. Have both plugged in, in parallel, and let them go to sleep with inactivity (no draw for 12-24 hours). Then, turn the inverter On (not on sleep/load sense, but totally on when switch is on). The thing I’m curious about, is whether both batteries “wake up” as they should or if only one wakes up and handles the load leaving the other one still asleep. Factory says the battery needs a 5A DC load to “wake up”. But I’ve heard that before from another brand and it didn’t work. Make sure inverter load provides a higher than 10amps DC load to the battery bank. Think you can do that? You should be curious if that works also. Else wise, one battery may do all the work for days and days.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

I will try but I cant think of a way to get that done. The Victron components draw a few amps just being hooked up. So in order to test that i would have to essentially shut everything off. I do have a small DC load hooked direct to battery. So I could shut down all the Victron stuff and get it to have no draw and hope they go to sleep, then turn the DC fan on and see if it wakes up. Right now I am deep discharging them until the low voltage shut down turns them off. SO that will take a while. I might be able to do your test this weekend.

@murp0443 8 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 You certainly don't have to on my account. Actually, a fine test would be to simply see if the batts go to "sleep" after 24 hours of you not doing anything special but with the Victron Cerbo hooked up. Inverter off, touch display off. If the batts don't go to sleep, that's great as that's my use case. They may go to sleep (or one may), and if that happens, it would be good to know both come back awake together as we want.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

@@murp0443 Well I can tell you I have had the batts idle with just Cerbo loads for a week or more and it never went to sleep. As a matter of fact the Epochs reported 0 amps and still did not go to sleep. I have had this system on the bench for about three weeks or more and many days they sit idel just powering Cerbo and they never once went to sleep. Also if you put the remote on/off switch with the Cerbo screen and other components you would instantly be able to see if only one batt woke up since the on/off switch lights up when on. In that case you would know right away and you would just need to press the one that didnt wake up. But I am pretty confident that wont be the case.

@randy1203 7 ай бұрын

Is it possible to replace my 2 AGM batteries and replace with lithium batteries in my rv. I don't have solar, but I do have a generator. Thanks for your help..

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 7 ай бұрын

Definitely. Just take a look at what charger you have and see if it has a lithium profile. You can use an AGM profile but its not optimal.

@chriswolcott1692 8 ай бұрын

I am awaiting my Epoch 300Ah V2 for my 1985 Catalina 30. My understanding is any CAN network can be daisy chained. I do not believe you need a splitter; I think you can connect one battery to the next then to the CERBO GX. Perhaps I did not hear it correctly, but it sounded like you said the Power In has fuses, it does NOT (Unless you altered it by adding the missing bolts, washers and nuts) it is the Distributor that has fuses. The AYBC specifies the main battery fuses must be within 7 inches of the battery, unless the cables are sheaved which yours are not. Most recommendations I've seen is to put a fuse on each battery then go to a main emergency cutoff switch that can handles the fused amperage, then to the bus bars. (I'm not sure if that is true if they are in series or not.) If you fuse each battery, you could connect your Power In and Distributor via the tabs. If you need to keep them separated, I would take the cables off the Power In via the tabs instead of with Link Bars or short cables as you show.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

No I did not alter the power in. I just misspoke and for some reason was visualizing the distributor as I was talking..lol. Thanks for correcting the record. You are right to think the CAN should daisy chain. This was what I was expecting. But I could not find a configuration of ports and dip switches that would allow daisy chaining. Either I still have a configuration or setting I have not tried or maybe we are still awaiting some additional info. Apparently Epoch and Victron are discussing this now or will be very soon. So I am sure there will be some refinements and updates as we go. If you get your batteries and successfully daisy chain them be sure to share with us. My final configuration and set up of fuses and switches are not set I bought the MBRF fuses already in case I want them coming off each battery. I really like those fuses. Some of the final configuration will be determined by placement in the boat. I will be working with limited space and may have to separate Lynx power in the Lynx distributor and other components. We will see. Thanks for your reply and contribution to the discussion.

@chriswolcott1692 8 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101My understanding of the AYBC requirements for Lithium is they HIGHLY recommend a Class T fuse (if not outright require them). Apparently, the Class T fuses are one of the only ones that can stop the power surge if the battery shorts, other fuses can still pass it even when blown. The Class T fuses & holders and huge and comparatively expensive, but I figure it is cheap insurance against the boat burning to the water line if worse comes to worse. When I ordered my 300Ah V2, the website picture showed RS485 | CAN | CAN, but when I saw your other video about them those batteries were RS485 | NC | CAN. I took that to mean No Connection. Is that correct? Even if the second CAN connection only acts as a splitter, they need to let users daisy chain them because splitting a splitter to get more than two will get messy fast.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

Yes...class T fuse is a must. Rod Collins has some good info on his site MarineHowto.com on class T fuses. The class T fuse in the video is a 400 amp one and that should be enough. Ill probably put MBRF fuses at each battery. Along with a cut off switch at each battery and another cut off at the inverter. The daisy chaining would be preferred for sure and thats how I initially tried to set it up with no luck....as of now me and several other have not figured out how to make that happen. I just ordered some more cables to try some different configurations. Still working on it.@@chriswolcott1692

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

@@chriswolcott1692 So I double checked my power in and it does have fuses. I bought this stuff used so the previous installed must have added the additional pieces. I thought it had fuses because I added some to it..lol.

@bill4639 6 ай бұрын

When you guys say “fuses” you mean an actual fuse and not a resistor? Also, can you put in a capacitor bank to buffer incoming power irregularities?

@a2022z2 8 ай бұрын

Are those batteries have a BMS that give you an early warning before the BMS disconnect?

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

I believe so. In addition you can set warnings in the Victron Cerbo GX at certain parameters. The prewarning in ABYC ultimately are a recommendation. Mainly IMO because many conditions that can cause failure can happen in microseconds or on a timescale where prewarnings wont help anything. High temp, low voltage, high voltage, high current is probablt all you could hope for in prewarnings. The other myriad ways a battery or system could fail seem to be hopeless to get a prewarning.

@a2022z2 8 ай бұрын

Can you connect the Epoch batteries directly to the Multiplus? Or is the Cerbo needed?

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

To take advantage of the Epochs features you need the Cerbo GX. If you wanted a budget system get the Essentials version 300ah battery and a lynx smart shunt.

@a2022z2 8 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Thanks. Already have the BMV-712 Smart that I intended to use. What would the Lynx smart shunt bring to the table more than a clean install? And yes I’m trying to spend as little as possible. I do like the Lynx power in. That looks like a solid and surprisingly cheap busbar solution. Solid batteries with a solid BMS is a must. Epoch seems to meet that requirement. The plan is to build a system with minimum 2 batteries for redundancy and sufficient BMS output to run the windlass. In addition to this it would be nice to get a warning if one battery for some reason shut down.. Had hoped Epoch communication would give me that?

@LittleCunningPlan 6 ай бұрын

I know you have sorted out the daisy chaining issue with these batteries as have I. I am wondering where you ended up setting your max charge voltage in the DVCC section? When I had two primary CAN bus connections to the Cerbo, I was getting high voltage alarms from one of my batteries when the the max charge voltage was at 13.8, not what I would consider close and I wonder if this might be related. An earlier comment (jimduke5455) suggested that having the comms set up with two masters might be causing your alarm issues. I would like to just let the BMS make all of these decisions and then use the Max Charge voltage when I want to maintain the charge at a lower percentage (away from the boat, etc) Also frustrated I can't see my Victron data on my Garmin 820xs, an older piece of kit. I can see them in the NMEA2000 device list but there is no display option for them. So much data, so little time.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 6 ай бұрын

Keep cycling the batterries low enough to mot het the warning. I think I started at 13.6 and now use 14.0. You really dont want to go higher than that. Go to "off grid garage" channel and search for a vid titled 20-80% SOC myth busted and watch that entire video. It will tell you what you want to know about max voltage. He also has many other great vids.

@LittleCunningPlan 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for that. Big fan of Off Grid Garage. Between the two of you I have learned so much and very much appreciate the work you have put into making these videos. I am working on a blog post of my Lithium conversion and will drop a line when it is up. Thanks

@tristankeen8540 5 ай бұрын

Am I right in saying these batteries have a class T fuse internally. If so, do we still need another externally?

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 5 ай бұрын

It has been confirmed they have a class T fuse inside. I have already ordered and received replacements. You still need to fuse the outputs to protect the wire running from the battery, but it can be a much less expensive MRBF fuse or ANL as long as its within ABYC standards on distance from the battery. Having the class T in the battery saves about $150-200. Pretty awesome. I would however placard the outside of the batt case so its readable stating Class T Fuse Inside and specs.

@tristankeen8540 5 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 excellent. Thank you.

@yellowiron584 5 ай бұрын

Can you either add comments or do another video of setting up the Garmins to display the shunt information?

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 5 ай бұрын

I will. But generally you need a Cerbo Gx. You would plug in a regular blue Victron RJ45 cable from the Cerbo GX to the Garmin Ethernet port. In that way you can display and control the system, which i dont think I showed. The way its displayed here you need to buy a nmea2000 special cable from victron and that will plug in the cerbogx to the nmea2k port on the garmin. Then you will be able to configure screens how you want to see them. The nmea2k data from victron to garmin is somewhat limited. But its still useful.

@BostonClipper 5 ай бұрын

First, thank you for your efforts!! Do you plan on mentioning galvanic isolators with your boat install?

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 4 ай бұрын

I dont currently have one. I also dont have any galvanic issues. However, I will likely add one since they are cheap insurance. Ill likely put one in when I install the Victron Inverter/charger.

@BostonClipper 4 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 My (limited) understanding is it protects surrounding boats from you charging the the water creating galvanic reactions, and you from an unnecessary drain of power. But I could be wrong. I also thought it was SOP in the marine industry. Wires/lugs also are special... I think. Sorry for not knowing.

@BostonClipper 4 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Victron Galvanic Isolator VDI-16, VDI-32 and VDI-64

@junkerzn7312 8 ай бұрын

You only need to charge it to14.2V (3.55V/cell). The BMS disconnect is typically at 3.65V/cell which is 14.6V. "Dumb chargers" charge to 14.6V or 14.8V basically all the way to BMS disconnect. Smart chargers should limit the charge target to below the BMS disconnect, but not too low or the BMS won't be able to balance the cells internally. Now, if it is coding at 14.2V, that almost certainly means cells are out of balance inside the battery. That is not ideal and you definitely don't want to paper over it by lowering the voltage further. What can happen is that the cells can continue to shift out of balance until the battery starts coding at the lower voltage too because the BMS generally can't balance the cells when charging to lower targets. So even though any LiFePO4 cell will eventually charge fully with targets as low as 3.45V/cell (13.8V), it isn't a good idea to use that as a regular charging target because the BMS usually won't initiate cell balancing at that low a target voltage. Generally with a new battery you only need to hold 14.2V for a day or two, or just cycle normally for a week or two with a 14.2V target, and the BMS will get the cells balanced and stop coding. Cells don't go out of balance easily so once things are in good shape normally cycling will keep things in good shape.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

Yes..I need to do some more cycles on it. I just haven't had the time. I will probably cycle each battery independently a few times then balance then hook back up. But I am pretty sure I will not be charging to 3.65. Maybe not even 3.55. Off Grid Garage and others have done extensive testing regarding balancing and capacity at 3.45, 3.55 and 3.65 with three different BMS units. 2 passive balancing and one active. All of them balanced better at 3.45 to 3.55 and tested capacity was no different between 3.55 and 3.65 and was negligible at 3.45. When I finally put this in the boat I am pretty sure I will be in that range for actual use Thanks for the comments and adding to the discussion. I will do more updates as I go.

@junkerzn7312 7 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Right. As long as the BMS can be configured to ensure that balancing still happens, a lower 3.45V charge target does work. However, there is one provisio, and that is if the batteries experience cold weather. In cold weather (but still above freezing, obviously), the lower charge target of 3.45V may not be enough to fully charge the batteries or to provide a decent rate of charge near the end. -Matt

@dougjacy 6 ай бұрын

Can these batts be laid on there side? Thanks

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 6 ай бұрын

Yes they can. They just dont recommend to install upside down. Mine will be installed at a slight angle. Starting install of the mounts tomorrow.

@yannims071 7 ай бұрын

Is That Battery is UL Listed UL1973 ? It seems not…

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 7 ай бұрын

The cells are. And Epoch is working on getting the entire batterry certified.

@Foxfried 2 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 the only UL they can get the whole pack to be is UL9540 which requires a metal case...bad for marine.

@ericklein5097 Ай бұрын

13.8V is not 99.X% SOC. 3.45Vpc is about 95%'ish. I wouldn't charge any less than 3.45V with the occasional 3.50V since 3.45V is the best start balance voltage where voltage and SOC actually have some kind of relationship. 13.6V is too low and you could definitely end up with less Ah's available over time. Keeping LiFePO4 near 100% SOC is nowhere near as bad as keeping cobalt based Lithium Ion near 100%. For cobalt based chemistries it is definitely what I would consider in the top 5 degradation factors (heat being #1). Your LiFePO4 cells should rest between 3.35 and 3.45 anyways depending on the size of the cell. This big 460Ah battery (if made out of 230Ah cells) is probably going to rest at 3.35 to 3.37 volts per cell. Floating it above this voltage is definitely no bueno but leaving it at 100% or 95% is not going to hurt your cycle life too much. I wouldn't be surprised if most LiFePO4 (so long as it isn't exposed to extreme heat or charged under freezing) will outlive their application or we will have a cheaper more energy dense chemistry by then (10 years for near daily cycling and 20 years for 3 times a week cycling)

@jimduke5545 8 ай бұрын

Couple of things: great video The power-in doesn’t have fuses. (Distributor does) You are running master and master on your 2 batts. I think this is causing you some problems. (Cerbo bouncing between the 2 masters instead treating the 2 parallel batteries as a “single” 920ah battery). the batts should be set up as master/slave. This mis-configuration might be the major cause of your alarms as the cerbo and DVCC is getting signal spikes as it uses 2 masters for the alarm criteria. This may be exasperated by the unequal cables causing the reported volt/amp bouncing. (BTW, your workaround in the Dvcc CVL is a pretty ingenious. I’ve thought of doing that but I run a node-red flow which lets my batts run down to 30% and charge to from shore power while remote to boat and once a month do a full charge cycle. I think you’ll find, eventually, that the cell balancing will get out of whack sooner rather than later and with the dual master set-up, it could get your 2 batts out of balance as well. ) Good catch on the coulomb counter within the epoch BMS. As a reference, my boat draws 13w (350w per day) of system “vampire” loads to keep the cerbo, router, BMS, etc while in slip this winter. Ymmv, but having inaccurate SOC is a pain-especially if you are remote from the boat.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

Jim. Are you running these same batteries?

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

Ok. Now that I have the time to respond...I very very much appreciate the feedback. This is what I was hoping for. Can I ask what batteries you are using? I tried several configurations of the plugs and dip switches but was unable to get the type of readings you describe. As a matter of fact the way you describe was the way I initially attempted to set this up and its the way I would have expected. But after several attempts I was not able to get things to show up in that way. So the way you see in the video is just what I ended up with that appears it would work and charge correctly. Atleast over a few charge cycles everything appeared to work well. If you have these particular batteries can you share your particular plug and dip switch set up. I was contacted by another person who has these batteries and he was able to get both batteries to show as individual items on the device list by using different ports on the Venus GX and reconfiguring the speed settings. Something I have not tried. All info is very much appreciated.

@jimduke5545 8 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 no. I am running 4 Victron Smart LFP-200a 25.6v with the Lynx BMS for my house bank. I do have fairly modest CANbus expertise with Victron, n2k, and BMW bikes and cars. So, I have not done exactly what you are doing but I have seen how 2 master sources work within a CANbus-things get either mixed, or it crashes the bus. For sure, controls (such as DVCC) gets some conflicting info and I think (don’t know!) that this is causing you the alarms. You shouldn’t have to change the max charge voltage to manage your batteries. I have attempted to get info from epoch but I’m not a customer so…no responses. My main interest with them is the 12v starter batt. I have an old AGM starter/windlass batt and I’d like to have CAN/victron (or rv-c) reporting and control, but it’s not necessary-just desired.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 8 ай бұрын

@@jimduke5545 Thanks Jim. I would expect that using all Victron would result in perfect operation. I think we just have some refining needed with the Epoch settings. Some of that refining may be simply better details for set up of connections and dip switches. Some of it may be needed updates or refinements from Epoch and/or Victron for software or settings. I am not 100% sure yet but I am sure we will get it sorted soon.

@jimduke5545 8 ай бұрын

@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 keep us in the loop. I went with what I knew would keep the boat insurable and marketable in 2022. I did all the install myself and did a ton of research. I really wanted to go with a REC/homebuilt but in the end, the more tightly integrated solution won out-mainly because it was what was available then. Now, the epoch and others are offering options and that is good. Maybe the next boat😉

@otm646 7 ай бұрын

6:17 I really wish you would test things before you make claims like this. That's not how it works, by the time the battery is up to temperature. There is sufficient inefficiency in the charging process to keep the battery above the minimum temperature.

@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 7 ай бұрын

Unless you can show me the programming of the BMS controls on this battery I don't think you can make those claims either. The inefficiency of charging that creates heat and MAY overcome the ambient cool temps to sustain a safe charging temperature is highly dependent on many things that you did not touch on. How many amps are we charging with? 10? 100? 250? What is the ambient temperature? 30F, 0F, -30F. All I can tell you is that this battery will turn on heating blankets internally at the temp predetermined by the manufacturer. and then shut off at another predetermined temp. If it has to cycle it will cycle. I dont know exactly what those temps are. It may initiate the heating blankets right at 32, or it might use them at 35 just for a safe margin. But it likely will not turn them off until it reaches some higher set point. Clearly, once the heating blankets raise the temp to a safe charging envelope the battery will charge and also develop some heat further raising the internal temp. Once the target temp to turn OFF the heating blanket is reached, the additional heat from charging may or may not be enough to maintain safe battery charging temps. If you are charging with 20 amps, and 10 of it goes to the heating blankets initially and then shuts off, and now the battery is getting 20 amps of charge...that 20 amps of charge may not be enough to maintain safe internal temps depending on the exterior temps and location of the battery. I can easily imagine if a battery was in a more exposed area and the exterior temp was 10 below zero that charging this battery with 20 amps after the heating elements turned off it may not be enough to maintain safe charging temps. In that case the internal heater would cycle. If you are charging with 200+ amps it seems likely the heating blankets would come on...then shut off at whatever predetermined set point is...and then charging with 200samps would probably keep them sufficiently warmed. Those are my thoughts on the operation. If you have some additional info the better explains it better or more clearly, definitely add it to the discussion.