Ergonomic Keyboards 2024 - Logitech Wave 2023 vs Logitech K860 vs Microsoft Sculpt

Рет қаралды 20,139

Күн бұрын

Chapters
Intro - 00:00-00:51
Background - 00:51-03:15
Ergonomics/Wrist Movement - 03:15-06:22
Logitech Wave 2023 - 06:22-10:18
Logitech K860 - 10:18-15:13
Microsoft Sculpt - 15:13-19:32
Outro 19:32-20:16
This video is comparing the Logitech Wave, Logitech K860 and Microsoft Sculpt in terms of ergonomics based on my experience with each keyboard.
I've used the Logitech Wave 2023 model for a couple weeks mainly playing games.
The Logitech K860 and Microsoft Sculpt I've used for about 4-5 months and I've been using the K860 for personal use and the Microsoft Sculpt for work use since I work from home.
DISCLAIMER:
This KZfaq channel and its content does not contain medical/health advice. This content is not intended to diagnose or to treat any physical health condition, and nothing contained in the content should be misconstrued as such. The medical/health information is provided for general information and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical advice. Accordingly, before taking any actions based upon such information, we encourage you to consult with a doctor or qualified healthcare professional. We do not provide any kind of medical/health advice. THE USE OR RELIANCE OF ANY INFORMATION ON THIS KZfaq CHANNEL AND ITS CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Пікірлер: 65

@arthurmarques6191 Ай бұрын

Thank you for the background section. that was really helpful and thoughtful

@delasantos 2 ай бұрын

great vid - very useful thank you mate!

@Tami-Mcclain 3 ай бұрын

Hi Joe.. Was just about to buy my first ergonomic keyboard and caught your video first.. helped nudge me in the direction I was already going and bought the K680. Thanks for showing these and your opinions.

@samueltremblay275 Ай бұрын

I would also say that shaking your legs all the time is a sign of stress which would be a cause of pain in your body so ergonomic keyboard is a breeze but taking frequent breaks moving out of the way of your computer would also help a lot.

@markyn123 Ай бұрын

Great video with really important information! Keep it up!

@elderlybody 4 күн бұрын

Fist time going for an ergonomic keyboard. Thanks for the video, it helped a bit: I'll start with some cheap trial version and then would go for ERGO I guess

@freepetgroomer 3 ай бұрын

Nice review. I recently purchased the ERGO M575 track ball mouse & really like it. Will go for the K860 soon. I hope I can use it with my Android phone to build my typing skills using NitroType racing game on my phone. I love this competitive typing game which improves a valuable life skill.

@tsankotsankov760 4 ай бұрын

This world needs Logitech MX Keys Mini Ergo... I love my mx keys mini but typing for 8 hours a day on it just makes my wrists tired. Saw the k860 in a shop and tried it , and I was blown away by just how natural it feels. But it is sooo huge my hand will need to travel 10kilometers/day just reaching to the mouse 😢

@techbrojoe 4 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree. If they did a mini K860 version like the sculpt it would be amazing!

@dar7279 4 ай бұрын

@@techbrojoe I feel like they would eventually release it right?

@techbrojoe 4 ай бұрын

@@dar7279probably wishful thinking on both our parts, but who knows!

@KasperBoLarsen 4 ай бұрын

It might sound weird, but have you considered switching to use the mouse/trackball with your left hand. After a bad case of "mouse arm" I switched. It took time to get used to it, being right handed, but now I will never switch back.

@tsankotsankov760 4 ай бұрын

@@KasperBoLarsen never even thought about that actually, sounds really weird. But I may give it a go.

@lew708 2 ай бұрын

I have the K860 and freakin love that thing. Have the MX Master 3 mouse with it and my hands love me for getting both.

@kanga7749 4 ай бұрын

I have been using the Wave Keys and unfortunately, the typing experience has not been very pleasant. The keycaps tend to produce noise even with light touches.

@techbrojoe 4 ай бұрын

That’s no good. Good to know for other viewers who read the comments.

@YesThatsMeFolks 29 күн бұрын

Thanks for sharing! I was going to get the pink wave! Because it’s pink lol and also smaller but I think I may go for the K860. I just wish they had it in white. But ergo is more important to me than anything else. Update: I actually ended up getting the model K350 Logitech. My friend has two of them and she let me borrow one for a week and I truly have to say I loved it! Fits perfectly in my hand as I type. Thanks again for sharing!

@daanw6270 4 ай бұрын

Loved the video dude, helped a lot. That said, stop moving your leg 😂😭

@techbrojoe 4 ай бұрын

Thanks!I noticed my leg as I was editing. I drank a bit too much caffeine before recording. 🤣

@Jiyuu06 5 ай бұрын

I wish they had the k860 in white :') is the only reason I'm thinking on getting the wave keys, since my entire set up is white. I'm just getting into ergonomics, I already have the Logitech ergo mouse so I started to look into keyboards, I work as an online teacher so I'm 6-7 hours on my computer daily. I wouldn't say I do heavy typing except for evaluation days and I have really small hands (I'm 5'2 lol), so would the wave keys work for me? Or is it a best choice to go for the k860 overall?

@techbrojoe 5 ай бұрын

I'd go with the K860 if you want ergonomics and budget isn't a factor. Wave is more like a standard keyboard with a bit of ergonomics mixed in. The white Wave does look pretty cool! It's tough to say though since my hands are bigger and I'm taller. I also have sensitive wrists and fingers since I'm probably on the computer 8+ hours a day so I value ergonomics over aesthetics.

@alexr1023 5 ай бұрын

nice review! I wish the k860 had a smaller size... do you heard about interesting ergo keyboards releases for 2024 ?

@techbrojoe 5 ай бұрын

Thank you. Nope! Have you? I wanted to see if anyone actually cared about ergonomic keyboards with this video before jumping into more expensive enthusiast grade keyboards. My channel is so small right now I just review things I purchase and use.

@alexr1023 5 ай бұрын

@@techbrojoe not at the moment. I appreciated the intro you made about the subject and like you said giving a consistent review based on the experience. Probably the audience is not so important but it's never a bad idea to talk about it. As a brand different ergo topic, I try myself to spread the use of screens that don't emit light such as E-ink (phones /tablets/ pc), RLCD (tablet/pc) or transparent LCD (pc) screens.

@themoderndrift 3 ай бұрын

I've been using the K860 since Sept '22, and could never see myself going back to a normal keyboard. No wrist pain since using it. Wish there was a mechanical switch version, but otherwise the perfect ergo option.

@joemachynia4981 4 ай бұрын

Do you work for JCI?

@RynerGT 2 ай бұрын

I think another thing I haven't seen any ergo keyboard do is having the number pad on the left (fixed that is). I don't have one myself but it seems like it would help on that mouse extension problem while still having the full numpad. Aswell as the normal advantages of being able to type on the numpad while using the mouse when you do have it on the left. Also kinda dislike how there is no real way to just plug them in with a cable and use them that way, without the dongle or if you run out of batteries/the batteries you already have finally die. But that is kind of nitpicking at that point.

@user-zr1cf7kb6y 4 ай бұрын

I had the Sculpt for a couple of years and switched to the K860. The Sculpt is okay, but poorly executed. The shape and design seem good, but the connection is really poor. It frequently drops, particularly while you are typing, which is incredibly annoying. The separate number pad is also a flaw, I was constantly hitting it with my hand when going for the mouse and leaving it at home or the office when I left. There should have been an option to attach it physically. The battery compartment it also terrible with a watch style flat battery and a plastic screw that breaks on first use. The Logitech is so much better overall and it's the best keyboard I've come across. It's a far better typing experience than the Sculpt or even normal keyboards such as the MX Keys. The only downside to it is the footprint, the thing is huge, which makes it less portable. I couldn't go back from the K860 to a standard keyboard now.

@Hari-du6pt 4 ай бұрын

Strange, my sculpt atthe office has regular cylindrical batteries and have not had connectivity issues also I keep the numpad on the left of the keyboard so my keyboard can be put dead center In front of me and no reason to put my mouse further pout to the right than needed - this is and the erhonomics is the whole reason I purchased it; and the only negative to the K860 - but I will get the 860 for my home pc next

@fredr3101 3 ай бұрын

Thanks. How big a drawback is it that the k860 is not backlit?

@baarg8672 Ай бұрын

sculpt interfers with other devices especially when plugged in obstruction... put it in same level and away from other radio devices.. no issues! the design and ffactor beats everything in its niche... F the only issue - MS marketing itself.. they can easely dicontinue bestsellers

@a5cent 2 ай бұрын

Tip: Your reviews should mention whether the key characters are just stickers or something more permanent. On MS keyboards the stickers regularly wear off on me after just a few months.

@IonutBoghean-sb6wx 2 ай бұрын

I have used the MS Sculpt for more than 5 years now and I really liked it. It is good ergonomically and the separate numerical keyboard is such a great thing, I don't know why other didn't copy the idea. I am tempted to get the Logitech one but what puts me of is its width, I don't like the numerical keyboard there for the reasons mentioned in the video.

@carolannbernheim 2 ай бұрын

Very helpful, unfortunately you answered my most important question: about the dongle! So I know for sure now that I can't buy any of the many that are advertised on ebay etc as being 'without receiver but for spare parts'. I can't imagine what spare parts there might be?!?!? I haven't lost the dongles for any of my six sculpt keyboards and I swear by them BUT the next important question is: when a keyboard becomes unresponsive for no apparent reason, what could the reason be? I've checked all the batteries, cleaned away any corroding on the battery contacts that might have developed while I'm travelling, And, on one of the keyboards [again, all Microsoft sculpt] the entire top row of F keys stopped responding as well as Q, W,E, R,T, A, Z....I live and work alone and nothing has spilled onto any of the keys and I'm temped to try to open up some to the keys and try compressed air, but I can't find a youtube instruction as to how to do this. This key board was initially expensive, yes, but I've used them with every computer I've every worked with and my wrists, elbows and shoulders are all happier for it!

@techbrojoe 2 ай бұрын

I'm honestly not sure. It could just be old or a lemon and not work anymore? I don't repair electronics though.

@Hari-du6pt 4 ай бұрын

Have you tried different ergonomic mice? Can you make a video on the vertical one you have and any others you have tried? Ive been using the sculpt combo for over an year at work and need a new keyboard and mouse for home but the sculpt is out of stock and does not have multi device connectivity which is a major L for home use for me - you are like THE guy I need to hear an opinion from on ergonomic mice. I tried a cheap vertical years ago but it was way too vertical it puts a different strain and forced me to lift thumb which was really disappointing. PS the scupt mouse is WEIRD but it absolutely helps with painful wrists and it's perfectly fine after a few days for use.

@techbrojoe 4 ай бұрын

That’s a good idea for a short and sweet video. The mouse I use is the Logitech MX Vertical. I actually have 2 of them. One for work and one for personal use. I’ve tried the vertical Anker one a long time ago and disliked it. I couldn’t even tell you the model. I’ve also tried trackpads for about a month, but it caused my wrist to be pronated the same as a traditional mouse, so it didn’t really help.

@cn8112 4 ай бұрын

I've been using the Sculpt keyboard for nearly eight years and love it. I was bummed when Microsoft discontinued them last year, but glad to hear you say Incase is bringing them back. I somehow missed that in the tech news. I'm in the market for new ergonomic keyboard and planned on getting the K860 since that seems to be the next closest thing. However, after doing more research on the Incase deal, I found an article by The Verge that says they'll also be releasing an entirely new ergonomic keyboard that Microsoft had under development. That sounds exciting, but not sure if I can be patient enough to see what it is, lol. I do like how the K860 can be paired using Bluetooth and has keys labeled for the Mac too (although the Sculpt also works just fine with the Mac as well). Decisions, decisions...

@techbrojoe 4 ай бұрын

Oh really? Well hopefully it’s an improvement if a new model drops!

@NetGhost03 Ай бұрын

The reason, why the microsoft dongle is unique to the keyboard, is encryption. They are using AES encryption to encrypt the keystrokes that are send over 2.4GHz. Thus the encryption keys are stored on the dongle and you can't just swap them.

@bigtee2000 3 ай бұрын

Great review. I have been a K860 user for years now. My ONLY complaint is that I end up destroying both the keyboard and the Logitech Ergo mouse. The keyboard will last around a year and then the mouse will last less than a year. The keyboard keys will start to stop working and the mouse's right mouse button will stop holding. This means that if I let's say right click and drag, I can right-click and start to drag, but between where I start and my destination, the mouse button releases. It seems to be a mechanical issue from what I have found on Reddit. I should mention that I work from home and I game... So both the mouse and the keyboard are being worked hard daily. I can't imagine using anything else at this point.

@a5cent 2 ай бұрын

Are the keys also just labeled with stickers that wear off quickly?

@krunkey 2 ай бұрын

They are like painted, they last for years without erosion

@notnotjake 3 ай бұрын

the Logitech keyboard is amazing but the numpad is a dealbreaker. puts the mouse too far away

@morerajuan 2 ай бұрын

k860 has been the best keyboard I have worked with, hope some day logitech makes one model without extra number path, that is not neccessary for everyone

@lordofbathurst 7 күн бұрын

Do you have wrist tesonovytis or wrist popping when you rotate your wrists?

@techbrojoe 6 күн бұрын

Yup! I’ve had it for as long as I can remember in both wrists.

@lordofbathurst 5 күн бұрын

@@techbrojoe Does the pain go away when you pop them?

@techbrojoe 4 күн бұрын

@@lordofbathurst nope!

@b25671 5 ай бұрын

I both have the k860 and the ms sculpt. The ms sculpt to me is way better in almost every aspect regarding ergonomics. The curve is better. The size is better. The typing is better (k860 is to hard to press). The downsides of the ms sculpt are usb dongle 1 device less flexible in customizing function keys But in terms of size and ergonoimcs ... it's really the best for me.

@techbrojoe 5 ай бұрын

I like them both, but the MS Sculpt is tricky to get right now. K860 firmness I like more than the softness of MS Sculpt, but I used to use MX Browns or custom switches that were similar when I used mechanical keyboards, so it's probably from that preference.

@peterh.2488 4 ай бұрын

MS Sculpt should be the best, but the build quality is questionable. I hope Logi can launch a similar product.

@EbonySeraphim 4 ай бұрын

If you’re talking ergo keyboards, you should truly examine split ergo designs. This feels like a super “lite” version of ergo if you’re not quite sure you’ll need it but want to feel better.

@techbrojoe 4 ай бұрын

Perhaps in the future! I tried a Moonlander and it really turned me off of split keyboards. Most of the more ergonomic keyboards are more expensive too. This video was meant more to be general ergo keyboards people could purchase at most major retailers.

@parkerdyer1510 3 ай бұрын

finally a review about ergonomic keyboards that have a negative tilt option and, are spoken in everyday speech instead of spewing a bunch of tech jargon to appear "knowledgable."

@techbrojoe 3 ай бұрын

Thank you! When I made this video my goal was to make it simple and approachable to someone new to keyboard ergonomics.

@trackvegeta8716 5 ай бұрын

for office work glove80 is really comfortable

@techbrojoe 5 ай бұрын

It looks cool, but it definitely looks like an Ergodox or Moonlander split type keyboard. It's hard for me to relearn how to type on those types of keyboard.

@trackvegeta8716 5 ай бұрын

If you already know how to type on the ergo k860 properly, it will not be so hard. If your main concern is health, you will not regret it.

@techbrojoe 5 ай бұрын

@@trackvegeta8716 if I see it for a good deal maybe I'll pick it up. Jumping into those enthusiast grade ones are pretty intense. I really disliked my time with the Moonlander and sold it after like 3 days of trying to use it.

@trackvegeta8716 5 ай бұрын

@@techbrojoe I had the moonlander, I also sold it. Not confortable when you have rsi. Good cheap alternatives are keychron v10 or x-bows lite or keychron k15 pro

@czdot 2 ай бұрын

I've had MS Scupt for years. I like it a lot but that thing needs an update. The F-row needs be made out of normal keys like the rest of the keyboard. Also, they need to ditch the function switch. It needs to be a key. The mouse that came in the package with it is trash.