"So what is an Octonian number?" "You wouldn't know it. It goes to a different school."

- Everyone confused AF - Makes joke about undies - Cut to Joe giggling

I once worked out the area of a triangle after only getting the wrong answer three times, so I think I got this.

How many podcasts until Joe mentions the octonians to the guest? I say 2 max.

WHAT THE FUUUUUUUK! I WAS LOOKING FOR THE GATEWAY TO THE ALT RIGHT...NOW I AM ON PLANET OCTONIO!!!

I have no clue what this is guy is talking about but I love it

Joe "I saw Octonians while using DMT" Rogan

Me: that’s a random scramble of lines Eric Weinstein: that’s a call to adventure

If you want to know more about Quaternions (which Eric mentions are the step before Octonions) there is a great youtube channel called 3blue1brown that has awesome videos explaining AND visualizing how they work and what they're useful for.

What a cool philosophy. We don't need the mysteries of supernatural stories because there's a lot of mystery in science to give our life meaning. I totally agree with this.

Guests like Eric inspire minds that can change the future in ways we can't even think of right now. Joe shines when he brings minds on like Eric. Who doesn't like listening to good, honest, smart people that inspire?

They should have asked Jamie to explain the octonions, it's easy to understand for him thanks to his A in physics!

I think i have had a stroke He is speaking English Iam i to put my undies on before my shirt I need to lay down

"Let me tell you about octonian numbers." Starts talking about letters. Ok, thanks.

Eric: pull this thing up Jamie .5 seconds later Eric gives look to Jamie like damn this guy is good

This guy is right, humans need to get focused on something other than building the next big weapon.

Eric: Learn hyper-complex math before you watch Ancient Aliens

What is an octonian? Nobody knows it’s provocative. Gets the people going 😂

Ive never been mindfooked like this before.

This egg to worm map blew my mind, and triggered some tears in my eyes. Absolutely amazing!

Newton couldn’t go to school because of the shut down (for the plague not COVID) so, understandably, he got bored. He didn’t have PlayStation so he started constructing a series of tests using inclined planes etc. to see what he could learn about the motion of objects. It was his “irrepressible curiosity” that ushered in the modern world.

I've used these numbers a little, so here's my best simple explanation. Regular or 'real' numbers like we're all familiar with are one dimensional, like how far something is or whatever, and they only have one part, like all good traditional numbers should. There are some rules, like square roots of negatives don't work because negative*negative is positive, they're commutative, meaning A*B always = B*A, and they're associative, meaning (A*B)*C always = A*(B*C). All just like you're probably used to. No drama so far. Complex numbers have two parts, a regular number and a second part that is some multiple of the square root of -1, called 'i' because really, we're just pretending it exists for convenience. Yeah, I know that doesn't sound convenient, but when you want a useful answer, the imaginary part gets cancelled out in the maths. Complex numbers represent an orientation in 2 dimensions, like which direction a clock hand is facing. Multiplying two complex numbers is like adding orientations together. Square roots of negative numbers are just normal in complex numbers. Complex numbers are still commutative (A*B = B*A), and this makes sense because it doesn't matter what order you add two orientations together in 2D, you still end up in the same place, right? They are also still associative (A*B)*C = A*(B*C). Quaternions have 4 parts (one real number and 3 imaginary numbers i, j and k). They represent an orientation in 3 dimensional space, like all the ways you could point a camera in a video game for example. Multiplying two Quaternions is like adding one orientation to another in 3D. Quaternions are not commutative (A*B does not = B*A). This makes a kind of sense that you can visualise. Imagine pointing your right index finger forward then rotate left 90 degrees, then down 90 degrees from there. It's not the same result as if you turned it down 90 degrees then left 90 degrees. Just try it with your finger. Quaternions are still associative (A*B)*C = A*(B*C). Strange fact though, Quaternions seem to have two representations for every orientation (just multiply each part by -1 for the other representation), but this too actually represents something real about 720 degree symmetry in 3D orientations that I demonstrated in a short video after one too many red wines here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oayTnsZ7nqfXeY0.html . Electron spins are apparently also represent-able as Quaternions because they have the same 720 degree symmetry, though that's not really something I know much about at all. Octonions have 8 parts (one real number and 7 imaginary numbers i, j, k, l, m, n and o). They represent an orientation in 4 dimensional space, like nothing ordinary people ever visualise at all. I'm pretty sure that multiplying two Octonions is like adding one orientation to another in 4D. Just like Quaternions, Octonions are not commutative (A*B does not = B*A). Octonions are also not associative either (A*B)*C is not = A*(B*C) and I have no ideal at all what that means in the real world. Fun fact though, surfer dude and theoretical physicist Garret Lisi has been proposing a grand unified theory of physics involving something called the "E8 Lie Group", the maths of which is based on Octonions, which he explains in his Ted talk here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r5N3nsJ1yc7WYIE.html . Notice there was a doubling of the numbers each time 1, 2, 4 then 8 parts to form each successive type of number. There is no 16 part number though. Notice how each step up required the elimination of some fundamental maths axiom, first square roots of negatives, then commutativity, then associativity. After that, we have no more axioms to throw away, so this progression goes no further. That's the end of the line, but also maybe the answer to the grand unified theory of physics, so that could be nice hey?

I love this. Quaternions were first used in describing electromagnetism. But no one understood it. Octonions are from an alien world.

Search images of "quaternion fractals" and "octonion fractals" for some really trippy fractals

Not joe: “It’s very hard to think about the square root of negative 1” Joe: “right”

"Hey Jamie, pull that up. Oh, but Jamie, make sure to not show it to the audience so they can't know what everyone's looking at." Now I'll never know what an Octonion looks like.

The shirt-pants and pants-underwear explanation of associativity is really quite brilliant.

I never went past high school but i have read a lot of books in the 30 years since. Stuff like this makes my head spin. It's like looking at Mandelbrot patterns or Hubble photos of the visible universe and then going to look at fungi, flowers and insects through a macro zoom camera. It is all so subtly similar i some times get the feeling the answer is right in front of me and i just don't get it. That being said i think this fellows mind is working on a different level than the majority of humanity. Good on him for trying to peak peoples interest but i think this stuff is just not something most of us can relate to let alone get really excited about.

Every time I listen to Eric he sents me on a trip, even when I’m not high

I use this to go to sleep at night! This should be an app!

This guy lost the battle of Phd vs. LSD

Y’all need to pay attention an stop reading the comments while listening to him talk

I have no idea what just happened, but I think I was invited to an adventure.

Group Theory is my favorite area in mathematics.

So I did 3 years of math (bachelor). So what I think is that everybody can grasp everything, but someone is faster in learning than others. So it's important to focus on what you get. What blew me away was in complex analysis when we integrated a half circle around the sum from 1 to infinity of 1/n^2 over the complex numbers to find out the answer was converging to π^2/6. How we can understand lower grade problems by going up a grade, to complex numbers.

My modern algebra class in college!

Jamie "I got an A in pysics but didn't think to throw the octonian they were looking at up for viewers" whateverhislastnamebe

Joe, Jamie, or the intern reading this, I love all of you guys and keep up the good work!

I broad stroke kinda get what he's saying,but even he was surprised at Jaime's speed "bringing that up".

Joe: "Pull that shit up, Jamie" Eric: Could I please trouble you, if I may, to pull up..."

Holy crap, I typed Octonion in MS Word and spell-check suggested "octomom". NO TWO THINGS could be further apart!

Invitation to adventure 😊. I love the way Eric thinks. Would like to see a KZfaq channel that explores these invitations more fully.

Best convo in a while

Now if he could just explain the Midi-chlorians to me.

Numberphile has a great video about quaternians (sp?) and why the order in which you multiply matters when you get into higher dimensions.

I didn't follow any of this. But I knew Joe Rogan and I were on the same level because we both let out a stupid giggle when he talked about putting on underwear after the pants.

Complex numbers are also great when dealing with Alternating Current

Thanks for posting this, man that is interesting Mr. Rogan.

I think Eric is a bit wrong... Octonions produce Sedenion when dragged through Cayley-Dickson construction.. in fact, you can drag the numbers through Cayley-Dickson construction and keep getting 2power(n) numbers, basically getting to infinite spatial dimensions. I have no idea if these have any practical use pass Octonions, which is what Eric probably implied.

How come they took down the race/ IQ clip? Did anyone catch it?

I might have learned more in 12 min here than my 7 years in a 2 year college

Thanks for sharing!

I thought I was good at math but I think I’m gonna have an aneurism from trying to understand this. Mind blown 🤯 btw happy 4th everyone

Listened to this twice. Loved it!

That quarternions, or whatever he called it, is just intro to Calc based physics.

lol Joe stops Eric to explain to listeners what they're looking at and instantly pawns it off on Jamie when he realizes he cant explain it lmao

I understood very little but I like it when he said It's time to bring back a ton of meaning back into our lives. The guy is not afraid to say what lot of scientists are thinking.

I was waiting for "these numbers are crazy.. But have you ever done DMT?"

2:50 The first smart thing Ive heard this guy say - there is PLENTY of mystery left, even to physicists and mathematicians, that will knock your socks off and fill you with wonder and awe and love of life.

Try mapping out one of the crabs from Leatha the street walkers rooster trap.

I'm going to listen to this on shrooms lol

Gregor gillespie is the only threat to khabib.

The way I understand higher systems of numbers is that mathematics in familiar numbers (before we get to i or other complex numbers) is a description of our environment. If we take away one of our fundamental assumptions (for instance, that 'a squared number cannot be negative'), we can add one complexity, but instead of stating the assumption as a question mark, in the place of that assumption we put a letter: i. With each increasing dimension and therefore "assumption" of mathematics that we have removed, we add another 'question mark' or letter (or series of letters, depending on how many orders of complexity we are increasing). But because we don't know the entirety of what we don't know, I don't think it's smart to state definitively that we would NEVER go beyond octonians. It will get more complex because our system will get more complex, and we will need more assumptions to continue describing our environment as we explore it (which assumptions can then be taken away to create a higher order of question marks).

JOE “JOE” ROGAN

I laughed a lot when Joe said: what in the f... am I looking at because i was thinking exact the same thing at that moment.

As bro-like as this podcast can be, Rogan introduces you to some cool ass shit. I could be scrolling through my IG looking at girls asses but instead I'm learning about theoretical physics and complex mathematics. My mornings are exponentially more productive thanks to this podcast. Thanks Joe!

C. Elegans is named for the late columnist Herb Caen. He wrote a column on the worm and it was funny...

Joe had to remind Jamie who's boss after this one

I often say, it is fruitless to pontificate about communicating with aliens, while most people do not know what their cat is saying. Until we master inter-species communication, we are just an isolated species among millions.

I love listening to both Eric and his brother. Brilliant guys.

I think the main thing we can do with this information that’s extremely difficult to grasp lol is to keep talking about it and make it more of a conversation amongst people, I’m dumb but I can tell that if we have a shot for shot look at an organisms brain that is basically a dumbed down version of ours that we need to push ourselves to understand this, it’s a cheat code to how to understand our own brains and possibly upgrade us so to speak, idk I’d love to see more people talking about this and sharing this because it is huuuuuuuuge information that can better our lives as a whole.

So, for anyone a little more familiar with this stuff or a little quicker at picking it up: is he saying quaternions are non-commutative (I know he's saying octonions are non-associative)? And if so, that refers to the fact that the order of multiplication, unlike real numbers, changes the product? As in, _ij = k_ but _ji = -k?_ Is that also why _jk = i_ rather than _k/j = i?_ Or, am I way off base? I'd like to have a remote idea of what he's talking about without going down a rabbit hole of dense mathematics.

I'm a neuroscience student and this just heavily inspired me

"I" is definitely a factor in this equation

awesome. Could listen to this for hours.

I'm clicking on to these particular shows with this guy to see how many English words this guy says that I have to look up!

Dude. That cell division mapping though. Saw that and was thought, "holy shit we can fucking map that precisely? How did I not know that!!?? "

It's an amazing design.

On DMT I was floating in octonion fractals 👌

Quaternions are used in the Unity game engine for things like rotation.

I hope Eric expands on this on his podcast

Alexa!! Oh wait, I mean Jamie...😒

Imagine the cell lineage for humans, or an equation that encompasses consciousness bet its chock full of Octonians

It's like our parents hid the keys to the car in the house somewhere, but our immature minds are so focused on getting into town and pizza and beer, that we're repeatedly searching in the wrong places?

Trade your mysteries with mine lol that's what I hear

LOUD NOISES !!!

C.Elegans used in aging research.

There's these numbers I know everything about but I don't know anything about.

This is a great idea for a magazine. Stuff that is extremely interesting, real, and you may not have heard of. Then, crowd source it. Find out what is important to everyone and throw some bucks and brains behind it.

For some reason I feel like I need a Scooby Doo lunch box with chocolate milk.....and a ride on a short bus. Damn......

My head literally exploded

Cuttlefish -- proof of life from another plantet.

Sounds like a brilliant mind but looks like Micheal Myers from Halloween

Similarity between the biological neural net and Tesla's neural net. Andrej Karpathy would be a good guest.

I don’t know what an onion with eight legs has to do with anything

Get mathematician Cohl Furey on the show please. We need more number systems/standard model discussions.

I'm still just as dumb as I was 12 minutes and 49 seconds ago.

That hairpiece is utilizing quantum dynamics

A metaphysical workout.

Who looked octonians up on Wikipedia after this podcast and is even more confused about what they are?