EU5s Tech System is RADICALLY Different!

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Lord Lambert

Lord Lambert

27 күн бұрын

Tinto Talks 20: forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...
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Пікірлер: 116
@Lord_Lambert
@Lord_Lambert 25 күн бұрын
Addendum: Someone else asked about whether you can switch focus or ever research the things in the focus' you didn't pick and Johan responded with; "You pick one, and the ones you don't pick, you don't get ever. In the next age you have a choice of another 10 from another pool of 30."
@herkles5416
@herkles5416 25 күн бұрын
I am not sure if I like that.
@mateuszzonowski7514
@mateuszzonowski7514 25 күн бұрын
That sucks... why can't you have Claim Fabrication and Enforced Service at the same time? How is this realistic...
@holydoggo4822
@holydoggo4822 25 күн бұрын
yeah this sucks
@jacobkring
@jacobkring 25 күн бұрын
They could just make it possible for people to switch but you lose all tech that subgroup have all ready researched (similar to when you switch ideas in EU4), put on top a stab hit and it should be fine.
@azirus
@azirus 25 күн бұрын
I can see a mod on day 1 enabling just that...
@boatt_swag
@boatt_swag 25 күн бұрын
5:00 I think he meant the institutions like Printing Press and Feudalism and Renaissance, not the estates.
@ResandOuies
@ResandOuies 25 күн бұрын
"..will replace the Technology Levels and National Ideas of EU4..." wonder what game we're talking about here. Can't possibly be EU5 🤔
@Lord_Lambert
@Lord_Lambert 25 күн бұрын
the super secret as of yet completely nameless absolutely obfuscated project henceforth known only as project caesar. Of course. :P
@jakobschoning7355
@jakobschoning7355 25 күн бұрын
Isn't innovativeness green already?
@LibertyMonk
@LibertyMonk 25 күн бұрын
Yeah, but innovativeness isn't "science". I still disagree with the guy, science (especially biology & chemistry) is green, blue is for math (or physics & medicine).
@jakobschoning7355
@jakobschoning7355 24 күн бұрын
@@LibertyMonk yeah, it is a very similar icon though...
@derbonuspool1274
@derbonuspool1274 25 күн бұрын
Johan said you cant change the focus but they are only a small drop in the bucket of Advances. So you have to choose but they are only 10 of the 100 total advances in an Age.
@derbonuspool1274
@derbonuspool1274 25 күн бұрын
Can of course choose a new focus in a new age.
@McHobotheBobo
@McHobotheBobo 25 күн бұрын
Good point! I was a bit concerned about being too penned in, but you're 100% correct lol
@derbonuspool1274
@derbonuspool1274 25 күн бұрын
@@McHobotheBobo Yeah I had a similar worry but when I went over it again and looked at the answers I realized that its not that prohibitive. Even better the Unique national Advances are always in the tree so you can't miss those. Given you are in the correct Age of course.
@MartocticvsCG
@MartocticvsCG 25 күн бұрын
I'd not appreciated that either; that's much less impactful and more like the old idea groups, which I guess was the point.
@hiruharii
@hiruharii 25 күн бұрын
@@MartocticvsCG i dont think youre right
@georgecatton
@georgecatton 25 күн бұрын
What I think is quite cool is what johan mentioned in the comments that trees orders are partially random, should add an interesting bit of chaos to the system
@jacobkring
@jacobkring 25 күн бұрын
It is exactly what I want for research in EU5. A mix of Civ/imperator/Victoria/HOI tech trees, but just heavily expanded. Put on top expanded national ideas compared to EU4 is so nice.
@joshuasims5421
@joshuasims5421 25 күн бұрын
Hear hear!
@boatt_swag
@boatt_swag 25 күн бұрын
What I want is that whatever focus you pick unlocks those techs during that age, but the other two are unlocked later on during the next age. This still puts you at a disadvantage in your unchosen focuses but doesn't permanently lock you out from them. It feels a bit silly to permanently lock techs that seem important and relevant just because you didn't focus on them during that time. Edit: Nevermind I take this back, it seems the technologies locked behind are more minor than what I thought, being more like idea groups than important technologies that change how you play. This is perfectly fine, I can handle missing modifiers I just didn't want to miss game changing technologies.
@boatt_swag
@boatt_swag 25 күн бұрын
Other than that I love this system it's everything I could've asked for
@McHobotheBobo
@McHobotheBobo 25 күн бұрын
That sounds nice, the chosen tree is also only 10 out of like 90 advances in an age
@joshaushessen2270
@joshaushessen2270 25 күн бұрын
You should comment that on the Tinto Talk
@boatt_swag
@boatt_swag 25 күн бұрын
@@joshaushessen2270 already have
@MegaVictor1129
@MegaVictor1129 25 күн бұрын
It's quite literally what i thought it would be A mixture of vic2 (even being able to save 1 year worth of research) and imperator with institutions opening special tech trees and national ideas being in the tech makes sense and ideas groups being in the age focus too!
@McHobotheBobo
@McHobotheBobo 25 күн бұрын
I like it a lot on the outlay! Eager to see more of Project Caesar
@georgecatton
@georgecatton 25 күн бұрын
This new system is looking interesting
@dessertfox5995
@dessertfox5995 25 күн бұрын
I haven't played eu4 in a while and one of the main reasons i stopped playing was that i felt the game felt less and less like a sandbox and more controlled in how you played. I loved doing wacky things with my countries like go colonial for Prussia or focusing on being a continental power with Spain. I feel the n current mission tree system kinda forces you to play one way because otherwise you will be missing out on huge bonuses. This new tech tree system is fantastic. I can build my nation however i want and if i want to take my nation into a different direction, I can. This opens the door to so many new builds and directions any nation can go down and i love it. Keep up the good work.
@oldylad
@oldylad 20 күн бұрын
That happens in any game, a player gets so good that they know the one way to do things, even having the variety in this game will cause the same issue, it’s a blessing and a curse for games, metas suck and you’ll enjoy a game more if you don’t know it or learn it on your own, simple as that. Basically even if you get the variety in eu5, after some time you’ll understand the objective best way to play and it’ll ruin the experience
@Idonean
@Idonean 25 күн бұрын
Very sad that the narrative structure of NIs is completely gone. It was a very good way for modders to give insight and a feel for a country, and an easy place to start work on what sets a tag apart. Most of that content in something like Anbennar won't survive this transition into "research utility". Both its brevity and the scope of what makes sense now.
@silouette65
@silouette65 25 күн бұрын
I don't know that I fully agree. It looks like there's still the ability to add flavor text to the advancements, at least in the screenshot. I'd actually argue that it may even provide more opportunities for the writers, developers, and artists to add flavor to a tag. And with the potential to opt out of some advancements, it could give a sense of allowing the players to shape their own vision of the tag. I know I've certainly seen some complaints that missions and the flavor text as written feel railroady at times, so maybe this could be a happy medium between the two. Who knows! But I like where your head is at ;)
@hiruharii
@hiruharii 24 күн бұрын
its replaced with national advances, country or maybe culture specific advances for each age
@oldylad
@oldylad 20 күн бұрын
@@silouette65if there are cultural unique advancements maybe, but from what it sounds like this system isn’t as good as national ideas
@silouette65
@silouette65 20 күн бұрын
@@oldylad By unique cultural advances do you mean the example Johan gave of a unique advance specifically for Poland as a way to add flavor and history?
@ChazzenHD
@ChazzenHD 24 күн бұрын
Oh my, I should have watched this before leaving my comment on the other video. Confirming landless tags has increased my interest substantially. Revolutionary.
@oldylad
@oldylad 20 күн бұрын
Landless tags? Like what?
@joshuasims5421
@joshuasims5421 25 күн бұрын
I love this system, especially with regards to how research is generated. I imagine that power of liturgical language probably refers to the prominence of your culture or tag's court language, whether Latin, Chinese, Arabic, or something else, and how prominent it is. It's a very cool mechanic, and I look forward to runs to foster my tag's liturgical language throughout the world. I'm also beyond happy that you can put research on autopilot-on many runs, I just want to keep up to speed on tech and not worry about it.
@silouette65
@silouette65 25 күн бұрын
It is truly astonishing how they were able to remix some of the concepts in previous (definitely unrelated) games like EU4. National focus used to be a button that gave you a +3 point swing? Not anymore! National focus actually allows you to shape your country in a direction, which is so cool!
@blitcut9712
@blitcut9712 25 күн бұрын
5:00 I think you're mixing up institutions and estates here.
@Lord_Lambert
@Lord_Lambert 25 күн бұрын
yep, brain read institution but mouth said estate. My bad
@GwainSagaFanChannel
@GwainSagaFanChannel 25 күн бұрын
Unique national technologies are an interesting concept maybe they could end up as a permanent buff as well
@Savvysnek
@Savvysnek 25 күн бұрын
If unlanded countries are a thing, PLEASE tell me we can play as a Pirate Kingdom…
@Jackanator101
@Jackanator101 25 күн бұрын
I am liking what I'm seeing here! Tons of potential!
@DaDunge
@DaDunge 25 күн бұрын
19:00 It's also that when you build up a currency that you can spend on an instant bonus. Instead of having to make a chocie first and then that taking time to complete.
@burntbybrighteyes
@burntbybrighteyes 25 күн бұрын
Wasn’t the song at 14:40 from Escape from L.A., when Snake surfes next to the cgi shark?
@ConstantijnII
@ConstantijnII 25 күн бұрын
The tabs at the top of the Advances screen are in my opinion in order: Government, economy/taxes, [no clue, maybe society/culture], diplomacy, military, religion, and (obviously) advances.
@jacobkring
@jacobkring 25 күн бұрын
Is it not just the different ages?
@Corn-Flakes1000
@Corn-Flakes1000 25 күн бұрын
@@jacobkring It's the same menu from when you press your flag in EU4
@cloudandclear5354
@cloudandclear5354 24 күн бұрын
I agree 100%. This is not mana. Mana are some out-of-the-blue points you freely get and spend. Here you get research in accordance to your game choices. Your choices on society and religion will determine how much research you get. Off course it's abstract, and I'm sure someone will find a way to break it, and to abuse the system. But I trust Paradox will close those loopholes, and will bring back the link between real game choices and the research you generate.
@Geometrys
@Geometrys 25 күн бұрын
Keep research green. The need for the color blue is just a knee jerk
@hiruharii
@hiruharii 24 күн бұрын
civ brainrot
@MetnePoKa
@MetnePoKa 25 күн бұрын
Will be fair to say that if he added some hybrid focus, like adm+mil with 5 of each, and that being full randomized will be good to
@ResandOuies
@ResandOuies 25 күн бұрын
12:00: I do agree that it makes it seem very likely, but devil's advocate; AI needs tech tree as well, so might just be techs that landless AI countries (don't) get
@Aquaria942
@Aquaria942 25 күн бұрын
A thing I overlooked until my third read was the collecting taxes is locked behind an advance. So before this, if you're tribal perhaps, can you not collect taxes? That's insanely cool
@frank031
@frank031 25 күн бұрын
It says a new starting point per institution, not per estate
@McHobotheBobo
@McHobotheBobo 25 күн бұрын
12:20 Fugger banking dynasty go brrrrrrr
@Cool_Night_King
@Cool_Night_King 25 күн бұрын
How about some form of order in your videos ? time stamps perhapse ?
@DaDunge
@DaDunge 25 күн бұрын
10:45 It's one of the big weaknesses of the crusader kings series, not enough unique content for... well there are no tags but, holders of certain titles I guess.
@Bleilock1
@Bleilock1 25 күн бұрын
And its ridiculously unbalanced
@RasakBlood
@RasakBlood 25 күн бұрын
Only thing i am not happy about it the connection to ages. And what seems to be a hard looking choice at its start. People will feel forced to pick the focus that have the key meta advancements. And after getting the must have advancements they will be stuck with that focus for the entire age? If eu4 is anything to go by then thats a LONG time.
@michaelking252
@michaelking252 25 күн бұрын
i think i would have to play to really get my head around it from what i understood the ideas and national ideas are something you research and those what ever the it gives you you keep for the reast of the game
@hiruharii
@hiruharii 25 күн бұрын
I am all for the new advances system
@DaDunge
@DaDunge 25 күн бұрын
11:00 As far as I know in German and Polish o is pronounced like the O in the name Oscar.
@Vulcanus3231
@Vulcanus3231 25 күн бұрын
Generally I really like this a lot
@dunedayl
@dunedayl 24 күн бұрын
I have very strong Civilization (especially Civilization 6) vibes from advances system.
@christianwhite8877
@christianwhite8877 25 күн бұрын
In theory you could become a technocratic monarchy/republic/theocracy starting as a tribe, but the fact that early research is less expensive means that if you play as a tribe in the Americas you could potentially be in a position to surpass the technology of Europe if you play carefully
@McHobotheBobo
@McHobotheBobo 25 күн бұрын
Certain of the earliest techs are *more* expensive by a fair amount (alphabet for instance)
@christianwhite8877
@christianwhite8877 25 күн бұрын
@@McHobotheBobo true. but stuff like alphabet should allow you to start snowballing tech sooner, I was mostly meaning it could be a valid strategy
@McHobotheBobo
@McHobotheBobo 25 күн бұрын
@christianwhite8877 I agree 100%, my first playthrough is probably going to be the Inca or one of the Mississipian culture tags
@christianwhite8877
@christianwhite8877 25 күн бұрын
Tbh I'm not sure what I'd choice, maybe see how well I can reverse the fate of Byzantium?
@hiruharii
@hiruharii 24 күн бұрын
i feel like you will have to wait for guns and cannons to spread from the other cultures, maybe you could gain some from defeating/stackwiping western armies in the new world?
@goosegod6
@goosegod6 24 күн бұрын
exploration next week yay. Hope they nail that and also the combat. I dont want no whack a mole simulator again, or genocide simulator slog fest for late game. They need to do something new with combat. I would suggest them to get ideas and depth of combat/army customisation like in HOI. That would be amazing.
@oldylad
@oldylad 20 күн бұрын
Landless tags is dumb except in a few specific cases, natives, the pope without Rome, or pirates. I can’t think of one example other than the above of a nation without land during this period, maybe starting as a rebellion or playing one like in the war of the roses? Dunno, but landless tags don’t work like landless characters in crusader kings imo, there aren’t really any tags that need it, and honestly pirates owning a port or natives migrating worked better in eu4, can’t see how it’ll work so I guess I can’t be sure
@user-om2wm4hi5r
@user-om2wm4hi5r 24 күн бұрын
i like "imperator like" tech tree, i just dont like that you cant speed up inventions speed (kinda create advanced country)
@Lord_Lambert
@Lord_Lambert 24 күн бұрын
You can speed up invention speed by having a more literate country with a more satisfied clergy estate.
@Speedster___
@Speedster___ 25 күн бұрын
>>> what will replace the Technology Levels and National Ideas of EU4 Hmm wonder if PC part of a different franchise….
@hennill3336
@hennill3336 25 күн бұрын
Engagement
@platinumsun4632
@platinumsun4632 25 күн бұрын
Outer Heaven mod when?
@steveh111
@steveh111 25 күн бұрын
I confess I'm *really* not a fan of the idea of the 'focus' being FIXED for a century at a time. Another specific dislike is the 'can't research a tech from a different tree EVER' idea. Between the two this becomes, for me, *a problem*. Otherwise, I could manage to summon up some mild enthusiasm for this Tinto Talk.
@1HUSEINKAPETAN1
@1HUSEINKAPETAN1 25 күн бұрын
Dudes? Wait, did you just assume my gender?
@Lord_Lambert
@Lord_Lambert 25 күн бұрын
Dude is gender neutral, my guy :)
@brastionskywarrior6951
@brastionskywarrior6951 25 күн бұрын
OPMs? Too easy. I only play 0PMs that way I don’t world conquest by 1500
@feelsbradman6793
@feelsbradman6793 25 күн бұрын
I feel like the whole focus thing should just be scrapped entirely. You aren't going to finish the entire tech tree before the end of the game anyway. so you're always going to have a sort of opportunity cost of choosing one tech over another. The focus system seems arbitrary, and I honestly don't see what it adds to the experience. I suspect they're trying to achieve a similar thing to eu4. where focusing mil to get crucial techs before other nations penalises you in regards to other techs. The problem is that they've already achieved this by moving towards research points anyway. If I spend my points on a mil tech, then I delay the research of other technologies. Which leaves the question, what's the point of the focus system?
@DaDunge
@DaDunge 25 күн бұрын
3:00 Well I don't like tech trees. Best tech system to date is Stellaris with random techs drawn from a deck,
@Lord_Lambert
@Lord_Lambert 25 күн бұрын
I really dislike Stellaris' tech system ngl
@westwarren6736
@westwarren6736 25 күн бұрын
That tech system sucks and by 2 hours into a game, I'm just researching % bonus techs that are uniteresting at best.
@Bleilock1
@Bleilock1 25 күн бұрын
Stellaris is only pdx game where i want to research all the tech right away and be done with it and only then the game really "starts" Its like mmos rush to max level "to start playing"
@zeira1188
@zeira1188 25 күн бұрын
That is still a tech tree. The options are just random, you still need to research it in order.
@TheBestMCScavenger
@TheBestMCScavenger 25 күн бұрын
Yeah but you can also get screwed by RNG. I can’t count how many times I’ve taken a tech just to reroll the options
@DaDunge
@DaDunge 25 күн бұрын
well EU4s was really bad so...
@01296501923654
@01296501923654 25 күн бұрын
This reminds me of HoI4 focus trees. It's arguably a big reason for the game's success, as it allows content designers to build appealing narrative trees, bespoke for each country, fulfilling player fantasies and exploring alt-history, creating interesting player choices, a wide variety of game effects, mini-games and missions. What makes them powerful in HoI4 though is that the time frame is short enough that the narratives etc. of the trees will generally apply to whatever has happened in the game. In Caesar, I will be interested to see what they will do to avoid making trees feel too generic and divorces from both the real history of the country you're playing and its in-game history.
@01296501923654
@01296501923654 25 күн бұрын
Another thing that makes Mana problematic is that it accumulates, as opposed to e.g. Capacities in Vicky3. The research points are not accumulated, but instead paid into whatever research you are currently doing.
@chinchin9144
@chinchin9144 25 күн бұрын
You're wrong. Research points accumulate up to a year if you haven't chosen any advances to research.
@01296501923654
@01296501923654 25 күн бұрын
@@chinchin9144 You're right. Missed that part. It's the same in HoI4. But there it seems to be more of a quality-of-life feature so that you don't lose points if you're slow to pick a new tech. Having it be a whole year in Caesar seems a bit excessive purely for this reason.
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