EV Battery Race: Tesla 4680 vs VW Unified Cell
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Күн бұрынBack in March of 2021, VW held what they called a “POWER DAY” and they revealed their plans to manufacture their own “unified prismatic battery cells to apparently compete with Tesla’s 4680 batteries. Let’s dive into VW progress with this new battery tech, discuss when VW’s unified cells will find their way into production EVs, and compare this to Tesla’s 4680 battery production progress.
2021 Technology comparison of Tesla 4680 vs VW Unified Cell: • VW vs TESLA: EV Batter...
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Image & Video Clip Sources:
1. Tesla Images & Videos Courtesy of Tesla, Inc. (where noted in video)
2. VW Images and Videos Courtesy of VW
Data Sources:
Salzgitter Battery Lab: media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1598
insideevs.com/news/584238/vol...
www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/...
www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/e...
www.fool.com/earnings/call-tr...
NOTE: All of the content found in this video is based on my own opinion and should not be regarded as financial advice. While the information in this video is believed to be correct at the time of recording, no guarantees are being made about the accuracy of the information presented in the video. Please do your own research or consult a licensed professional, before making any financial decisions - including the purchase of a vehicle. As of the recording of this video, I am NOT invested in Tesla, nor VW stock or securities, nor any other company mentioned in this video.
@MsAjax409 2 жыл бұрын
We have so much more insight into Tesla's battery supply strategy as compared to VW's. Stating targets is easy, securing raw materials, building factories, ramping battery production, improving battery performance, and driving down costs are hard. I agree that what VW is doing is laudable, but given the hurdles before them, and their being 3 - 5 years behind Tesla, I can only wish them luck.
@4literv6 2 жыл бұрын
Also they just canned diess as of Sep 1st. Good luck vw auto group y'all will likely not survive this upheaval. And thanks to dieselgate and ongoing emissions cheating I say it's a death well earned. 👍🏻
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 2 жыл бұрын
Most of the legacy OEMs are one *golden parachute* away from giving up. Maybe VW will beat gm into the abyss. GM at least has it's trucks.
@danielvilliers612 2 жыл бұрын
@@eugeniustheodidactus8890 WOW, you people should tell me what you are smoking. So the no 1 car manufacturer in the world which is like 3 rd one in electric vehicle is just going to disappear like this. One example why for me VW is for now ahead of Tesla, they have more than 10 ev models now on sale. And i understand Fanboys cannot understand how important it is, but different people have different taste. Yes, VW has 3 models just with the ID4, Eniaq, Q4 etron that are basically the same platform. But ther is much more chance for me to buy one of those 3 that the Model Y. Not everyone wants the bland look and inside of the Y model. I also want a front console etc and not because Tesla wants to put a center console. When you didn't have much choice it was understandable, but now people might might prefer X to Y to Z. And this you don't have with Tesla.
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 2 жыл бұрын
@@danielvilliers612 Are you even aware of the extent that Tesla has just revolutionized the auto manufacturing industry, and that the legacy OEMs must stand in line for years in order to *start* catching up? What VW has done in the past has nothing to do with executing now or in the future. They obviously are failing already with the ID lineup, despite the multiple models of inferiority. Yes.... I test drove the ID4, and although I like it... it cannot compare to the Model Y in several metrics. And I think the ID4 is better looking. When the market demands more "models" with leather and stitching.... and more gadgets, then Tesla will deliver that. But until then, TEsla is more concerned with scaling it's huge demand into 20million vehicles per year within the next 8 years. That will be twice the size of Toyota... which now has plans to outsource EV manufacturing to BYD in China. Yes... the industry can shift THAT quickly. Best wishes.
@lengould9262 2 жыл бұрын
@@danielvilliers612 You realize they have to figure out how to make a profit on EVs first?
@BarryObaminable 2 жыл бұрын
haha 2025 start production on battery plant in germ Ford admits it doesnt make any money on a mach-e I suspect it is the same for VW.
@billweberx 2 жыл бұрын
Will be interesting to see if these battery plants ever get off the ground after Herbert Diess splits in a couple months.
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
Why not? The plan is set for the next 5-8 years. No need to change it.
@billweberx 2 жыл бұрын
@@EinzigfreierName They got rid of Diess because he's moving too fast. They may decide to slow things down on electrification.
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 2 жыл бұрын
🤨
@jonpetter8921 2 жыл бұрын
@@billweberx Why would they slow down on electrification when their EV market share is increasing while ICE stagnating,...
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
@@billweberx It's not so much about his strategy but about his personality as leader. At least that's what some sources claim. Slowing down the path to electrification doesn't make much sense.
@ThWiedermann 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, cherrs
@sailingonasummerbreeze7892 2 жыл бұрын
The battery race is underway!
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
hard to see how VW might catch up to Tesla vehicle delivery volume if VW only plans 240GW of batteries while Tesla plans are for 3TW. Buying outside might augment, but at what price and availability....
@paul5683 2 жыл бұрын
Perhaps, but Elon did promise a lot of other things that never came to fruition. Cyber trucks, men on Mars, the hyperloop, etc , etc.
@squidly5160 2 жыл бұрын
Hi John, good video..A comparison between the 4680 structural battery pack and the CATL CTP 3.0 would be interesting. The CATL pack attend like the closest competitor to the 4680 structural pack. It also is likely to find it's way into Tesla's, Ford's, Kia and Hyundai. From a temperature control perspective it may have an advantage which leads to safety, charging speed, life cycle advantages. VW and their unified battery developer, gotion high tech, will have to work hard to match the CATL 3.0 CTP or the 4680 pack
@Cleanerwatt 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great suggestion!
@4literv6 2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget the byd blade ctp starting with the new seal atto 4, a model 3 sedan competitor. That enters production later this month. I'd be curious to see the catl lfp ctp vs byd blade ctp vs tesla 4680 in house ctp. It would take someone like munro live though to do a true tear down comparison sadly.
@iandavies4853 2 жыл бұрын
4680 pulls heat out (eg from hot spots) via metal current collectors - so at very small scale. Any design which relies on conduction through many layers of separators & electrolyte will get steep temperature gradients & poor sustained heat removal. Plaid is best of old design, uses small 18650 cells, so lots of electrical junctions, dedicated cooling strips. Prismatic has fewer junctions, similar cooling if narrow cells, not CATL size. (CATL LFP so less fire risk) Those prismatic in video very, very slow to wrap. That’s not smart.
@Bonjevalien 2 жыл бұрын
@@iandavies4853 So the tabless architecture shunts all current, whether charing or discharging directly out of the cell through hundreds of Cu or Al flags on the top and bottom of the cells. I think temperature control will be easy. Plus the batteries are in a structural format. Hard to match, IMO, easier to let ego go and imitate Tesla every chance they can.
@iandavies4853 2 жыл бұрын
@@Bonjevalien Yes. I’m no expert, but Tesla takes holistic approach. Found a way to reduce cost, labour, cobalt, weight, charging restrictions, fire risk, and make individual cells robust, puncture resistant. And whole pack sealed in tamper-proof goo. Yet Panasonic proposes 5 tabbed design 4680, and BMW still has fires.
@jameshoffman552 2 жыл бұрын
What's unified about VW's Unified Battery Architecture? They seemingly can't even decide on a form-factor, or commit to one at least. I like battery cells that have dimensions.
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
The dimensions are unified.
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 2 жыл бұрын
*"Unified"* means: _we can't find our ass with both hands but we want to be like Mary..... she led!_
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
@@eugeniustheodidactus8890 "Unified" just means to use the same form factor for batteries across the whole range of cars which is a pretty obvious thing to do.
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
Once the chemistry is developed, the form factor (size) can be whatever is needed. That's the strength of the prismatic technology. But getting to that is difficult, as Tesla has discovered. Engineers can be arrogant.
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
@@twhite5085 It's the other way around. Define a battery form factor and design all platforms and models around it. Then make suppliers offer all their different chemistries in that form factor. This modular approach has a lot of advantages.
@bobdyck8508 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for a very fair pro EV presentation as per usual.
@Cleanerwatt 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@macioluko9484 2 жыл бұрын
I would also be pleased with these decisions and investments by VW… if the calendar said we’re in 2012…
@larslysdahl4586 2 жыл бұрын
Northvolt has already started production at their Ett factory in Sweden, and delivered cells to client
@MyUniversalUniversity 2 жыл бұрын
VW is not making the batteries the partner is. Their tech is a mess with Cariad, I hope they do better with barriers. Where are they getting the minerals? Very important question??
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
It's the same concept as with Tesla an Panasonic basically.
@jonpetter8921 2 жыл бұрын
I didn t know Tesla "makes battery for Panasonic"
@murraywhittaker6452 2 жыл бұрын
@@jonpetter8921 I think you will find that Panasonic makes batteries for Tesla Jon.
@donn3336 2 жыл бұрын
You seem to forget the batteries that go into the Megapacks and all the batteries that go into the Energy sector of Tesla.
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
Those batteries are LFP. Not used in most Tesla vehicles.
@Shaolinof36thChamber 2 жыл бұрын
VW fired Herbert Diess. Without him they would be left behind a lot more. Let's see how other companies like KIA, Hyundai and NIO can benefit from it. The race to place 2 is ON.
@user-kb8gh5jv9t 2 жыл бұрын
What is missing here is the fact that the VW factories in late 2025 and 2026 going forward will most likely be Solid State Battery production from QS (which will be prismatic) and that alone will give VW a massive edge and make the 4680 Cell pretty much obsolete…😉
@RussInGA 2 жыл бұрын
if you the SS batteries will be in mass production in VW cars in 25/26 you are greatly mistaken.. additionally the 4680 improvements along with other improvements are making the solid state battery leap not so much of a leap. The mass market does not care which batteries are used..they care how they perform, how much they cost, and how available they are. SS batteries should be good though. VW will need an awful lot of them. And brand new tec like that carries risk, cost, and ramp up time.
@user-kb8gh5jv9t 2 жыл бұрын
@@RussInGA , the timeline most likely is optimistic that is why I said “most likely” not “definitely” but if you think that the 4680 is anywhere close to a SS Battery than you simply don’t understand the difference between chemistry and structure of a SS compared to a LI battery. The biggest and most profound advantage of the SS will be charging speed which simply cannot be matched even by the 4680 due to cell makeup and basic chemistry and physics just to mention one small aspect. The jump in technology is massive and will change batteries on a fundamental level just like Tesla did to the Auto industry. Will there be delays… absolutely… just like any new technology. The key to all things battery related will be raw materials because so much of it is needed going forward.
@wtrbns 2 жыл бұрын
@@user-kb8gh5jv9t I'd even say that being flexible in your raw materials will be more important than a performance edge due to the out of wack supply/demand curve we're heading towards regarding batteries
@user-kb8gh5jv9t 2 жыл бұрын
@@wtrbns , I think that is a correct statement and yet another plus for QS since the host Cathode material is rather “interchangeable” (within limits) with only minor performance degradation.
@HaalandViking 2 жыл бұрын
But QS battery is 5 years away from mass production and they still need to prove the tech and whether it can scale. Lots of ifs and ,a ye, whereas Tesla is already in production
@williambradshaw1874 2 жыл бұрын
So VW plans on producing 240 GWH by 2030 and Tesla is producing 210 GWH right now and plan on 3 TWH by 2030. Not much of a competition going on there right?
@nguyep4 2 жыл бұрын
And to think Bloomberg expect VW to overtake Tesla by 2024 lol
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
210 GWh right now? Where do you have this number from ? :-)
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
@@nguyep4 That's a bit optimistic. But 2025/26 maybe.
@jonpetter8921 2 жыл бұрын
I don t really think Battery production will be an issue for such actor like VW Group or other big corporation. I wouldn t trust numbers from internet to make an assumption.
@danielvilliers612 2 жыл бұрын
You took those numbers from you A s s LOL
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 2 жыл бұрын
I think that Giga Austin's 4680 ramp has been delayed due to equipment delays. I suspect that the slow rooftop ventilation equipment installation ( for the battery lines ) for one, is a good indicator.
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
to me, that rooftop HVAC indicates process evolution. They're learning how to make batteries as they go; the process isn't mature and yields have been lackluster. Climate control is critical, and it's Texas humidity.... Most importantly, batteries aren't as easy as they thought, and hyped. Hence all the CT, Semi, MY delays.
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 2 жыл бұрын
@@twhite5085 The big delay for all future product manufacturing stems from needing a factory, 4680s or not. Tesla's battery line heuristics were a bit of a disappointment to me because I was under the impression that they were producing batteries on an active line during Cyber Rodeo. NOT! Cheers to 2022 and new waves of "manufacturing hell" in 2023 ‼
@marcusoutdoors4999 2 жыл бұрын
A quick correction, the 4680 is using a range of chemistries including Iron based cathodes.
@free2choose80 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if Herbert Diess leaving VW allows us to be so optimistic about that company. I am anxious to see how the new CEO will handle such things as batteries, software and everything related to evs.
@calmorton4619 2 жыл бұрын
Hard to believe D was not pushed out by his sub-CEO staff for having the nerve to invite Musk for a general meeting. D collects his salary for another year and doesn't really need a position but there are lots of EV startups he could consider.
@abraxastulammo9940 2 жыл бұрын
@@calmorton4619 Like Sion? 😁
@larslysdahl4586 2 жыл бұрын
I thought Texas and Berlin ultimate capacity is planned for 200 or 250 gwh and not 100? Also how does this align with their TWh factory plans ?
@larslysdahl4586 2 жыл бұрын
On their battery day Tesla said one factory can ultimately have 1 TWh of capacity (run rate since the 3 TWh goal is run rate and not capacity). Anyway does this mean they will expand Texas and Berlin to 1 TWh each and build one more? I understand that they have an agreement with the Chinese/catl on not making batteries in China.
@elihernandez330 2 жыл бұрын
What about byd's incredible blade battery thats already in use.
@shuso9619 2 жыл бұрын
GOLDEN
@imaro2358 2 жыл бұрын
Good video. I don’t know if I’ve heard to same thing about Tesla’s 4680s. The limiting factor indicated Tesla plans to use different chemistries include iron. Also I don’t know if you included 4680 production from Tesla’s partners in your analysis.
@scientious 2 жыл бұрын
Ford is similarly working on battery technology. Their battery research building is 270,000 sq ft. This is in addition to the 185,000 sq ft battery test and certification facility. Ford is trying to develop in-house battery technology rather than relying on companies like SK and LG.
@user-nx4ti8xs1o Жыл бұрын
I am surprised why these battery techs are so expensive.
@thomascorbett2936 2 жыл бұрын
I wish you'd show the VW battery and give more technical information how VW s battery works .
@Cleanerwatt 2 жыл бұрын
Great suggestion - I haven't see technical data released for these cells yet, but I will keep my eye out for it.
@gbinman 2 жыл бұрын
I wish all car makers success, despite how skeptical I am in light of the imaginary projections from most. Legacy ICE car makers have no chance to compete with Tesla. Obvious reasons, debt, self competition with their ICE products, supply lines, unions, and resistance to change. Buying political advantage will fail. Tesla's only possible competition is from China. China has some amazing car makers even though most of the world thinks they mostly have rickshaws. All the media hype doesn't matter, Tesla will sell every car made without a single advertisement. It is what it is.
@jackarnold3290 2 жыл бұрын
100%
@fiddlerJohn 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. "Tesla's only possible competition is from China." The best OEM in China is TESLA. By far. Next is BYD. No other OEMs make a profit on BEVs. If making profitable BEVs was easy, anyone could do it.
@danielvilliers612 2 жыл бұрын
The funny part is Union. I mean the funniest, because you people where saying like they were 10 years in advance. And yet Korean and some german cars charge and go further. The thing is until Tesla start to produce the equivalence for VW golf type of cars, you won't even be a top 5 car company. Tesla has 2 cars which barely have yearly model change, VW already has 10 different model or derivative while we are still waiting for the mytical cybertruck, roster.
@murraywhittaker6452 2 жыл бұрын
Gary, you precisely hit the nail on the head!!
@rchstokes9064 2 жыл бұрын
Totally agree with this. Imagine your VW - over 200 billion in debt. You have a golf GTI in your show room, maybe 8% margin. And a ID3 probably zero margin, maybe a loss…. Customer ums and ahs and drives off with a ID3. Bye bye margin, bye bye revenue from engine servicing, Bye bye ICE customer!
@Bonjevalien 2 жыл бұрын
Jonathan... I see in your disclaimer that you're not a Tesla investor. Why not? Tesla is a generational company / opportunity! Just the auto sector is enough to stand up and cheer, and energy is growing slowly, but eventually it will be HUGE. 🤨
@irasthewarrior 2 жыл бұрын
Will vw use cobalt in its batteries ?
@abraxastulammo9940 2 жыл бұрын
It will be Manganese rich which will improve the cost.
@wilber8260 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for a very informative video. But, I am concerned that VW may go bankrupt before 2030. With declining ICE sales their income is plummeting. Have you, or anyone, run the financial numbers to see if VW can survive?
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
Do you really think the German government will allow VW to fail? Especially since labor unions are in control of management committees? And after the US Govt bailed out Chrysler then GM ?? No chance!
@wilber8260 2 жыл бұрын
@@twhite5085 Wish i could disagree. but what you said is certainly the likely scenario. I am not familiar with German laws. But i think in the US a company can declare bankruptcy before shutting down. that way there is time after bankruptcy for the government to save their butts despite their bad business decisions.
@irfanhusein1445 2 жыл бұрын
Bankruptcy? VW had a net income of $ 17 billion last year
@MrDominatord7 2 жыл бұрын
Very unlikely, the german government is involved in VW as a 20% shareholder The government will bail out VW
@waynerussell6401 Жыл бұрын
Altman Z score VWAG 1.19 = Distress -implies bankruptcy possibility within the next two years. Tesla 19.38! preview.redd.it/8mrqw5mrymi91.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=da1edba8945fb0f0f51220620ba2b348f616699a
@rare_wubbox360 2 жыл бұрын
Great stuff. But i believe its way way to little.. hopefully(for some) VW will survive- in any case it will be a small player.. Do you pronounce Volkswagen with a t instead of a k..? 👍🇳🇴
@jonpetter8921 2 жыл бұрын
"small player" hahaha. Don t be surprised when VAG surpasses Tesla by 2025
@danielvilliers612 2 жыл бұрын
@@jonpetter8921 These Tesla fanboys are so delusional. They think a company selling $ 50k usd and above cars is going to be a top 5 car manufacturer. VW group has already 10 models that span from 30K to 150K and tesla has 2 cars. You don't rule the world with only two models of cars.
@russhare4793 2 жыл бұрын
@@jonpetter8921 I will be (massively) surprised if VAG surpasses T by 2025. Considering chaotic competing influences on VAG leadership (Blume pushing biofuels to keep the 911 going,) their actual production plans (Diess's acknowledgment that VAG could/will not overtake T until at least 2026), the very unfortunate Cariad software situation, Tesla's extreme lead in manufacturing methods, T is NOT standing still, etc. etc. etc... Very (as in never gonna happen "very") unlikely that VAG is close to T in BEV production by 2025.
@russhare4793 2 жыл бұрын
@@danielvilliers612 Tesla is selling all of the $55K cars it can manufacture. Why consider making another model at this point?? Also, the Pareto principle - 80% output from 20% input - applies. For these reasons, T will continue to build capacity until 3 and Y demand is met... we're years away from that. Rinse and repeat, every category gets ONE killer vehicle. As mftg methods continue to improve AND scale, vehicle cost will decline and BINGO, T average selling price will be in the $40's (although the CT will bring this number up...) a couple more years with compact vehicles, their selling price will be in the $30's maybe even $20's. See the future - here comes the Cyber-truck, the Semi, the compact, and who know what else, robo-taxis with autonomous driving revenue and SAAS software revenue - that's how Tesla becomes the biggest automaker in the world...
@jonpetter8921 2 жыл бұрын
@@russhare4793 Diess failed to deliver when it comes to providing reliable software for their MEB cars. One of the reason VW is struggling i China. Blume has had decent success with Taycan without the twittering and talking. Diess may be a great visionary but he lack Blume execution ability.
@eugeniustheodidactus8890 2 жыл бұрын
VW's battery guidance tells me that they plan to be a much smaller manufacturer than Tesla by 2030 ! The way things are going there.... with the departure of Herbert Diess and the upcoming new platform delay of three years ( due to software issues ), VW risk becoming insignificant.
@danielvilliers612 2 жыл бұрын
🤡🤡🤡🤡
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
All German car manufacturers are at risk. They're all good at bashing metal, but software is NOT a strength........and that's the critical intangible for EV success. Batteries is another skill at which German companies are over-matched.
@marcusoutdoors4999 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting, Panasonic have just done a 2TW deal with Tesla
@ThePeter123a 2 жыл бұрын
Tesla produces its basic variants with less expensive LFP cells. Next year, VW will also offer LFP cells in its cheaper versions. The Golf was VW's best-selling car for decades. Its successor as an electric car is the ID.3. Up to now, more expensive vehicles such as the ID.4 or the Audi Q4 e-tron have been prioritized due to a shortage of parts. The basic version of the VW ID.3 with 45 kWh has never been produced. Tesla has not yet announced the production of its compact car.
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
As far as I remember, the 45 kWh version has been produced but was canceled when chip shortages started.
@murraywhittaker6452 2 жыл бұрын
Tesla, also aims to produce just one category winning and superior vehicle within each vehicle class. Unlike VW, who say they have something like 50 BEV's currently on the drawing board. What a waste of valuable resources, and production nightmares, to purposely set out to create your own in-house competition. How can you ever become profitable with that approach?? To me, Tesla's approach is by far the most sane and VW's approach is completely insane! I think it is the perfect recipe of how to bankrupt the world's largest car company within 10 years or LESS!
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
@@murraywhittaker6452 For me it's the opposite. It is impossible to make all customers all over the world happy with just a few models. VW with all it's brands and models has a big advantage here. If you don't like the ID.4, maybe you like the Audi Q4 or the Skoda Enyaq. This concept has worked for ICE cars and there is no reason it wouldn't work for EVs also.
@abraxastulammo9940 2 жыл бұрын
The 45 kWh version got an upgrade to 55 kWh with sw lock to 45 kWh with gives a 31 kg weight penalty but significant advantages.
@Dogman3690 2 жыл бұрын
Hi, John I don't like vw because of emissions gate scandal but for the sake of our home planet 🌍 hope they make good affordable ev's for the Masses.
@huskydogg7536 2 жыл бұрын
Right diesel/emissions gate. Who said they're not good at software!
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
the planet is more at risk from politicians than from CO2
@Eagles_Eye 2 жыл бұрын
“They recently announced more recently “
@CrRodney1 2 жыл бұрын
VW is doing OK after all. They have challenges of course but this looks great
@calmorton4619 Жыл бұрын
OK? I'd say VW looks OK compared to Toyota...or Ford...or GM.
@timgurr1876 2 жыл бұрын
Lower manufacturing cost per kWH is absolutely necessary to bring EV vehicle prices more in line with ICE vehicles. However, if the major concern of environmentalist is to reduce the CO2 emissions of transportation, the CO2 released into the environment from the mining of the materials required for batteries needs to be understood and the payback in terms of CO2 reduction of ICE vehicles on the road. How many years until breakeven?
@jackarnold3290 2 жыл бұрын
Does anyone use cobalt?
@abraxastulammo9940 2 жыл бұрын
Is it radioactive?
@Crunch_dGH 2 жыл бұрын
Elon has said that LFP will be in 1/2 of all Tesla batteries. So, when will LFP become available in 4680 packs?
@iandavies4853 2 жыл бұрын
Probably never. I’d guess 4680 is best model for nickel chemistry, no competition from suppliers. But CATL has best form for LFP (& BYD Blade?), so I wouldn’t be in a hurry. Just need way to make structural & ultra-reliable, unserviceable pack from CATL prism / BYD blade.
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
Elon was counting MegaPack and PowerWall products in the mix. Tesla vehicles won't use much LFP beyond some entry level models.
@manni1998 2 жыл бұрын
240GWh and 75kWh is enough for 3.200.000 cars. 3TWh and 75kWh is enough for 40.000.000 cars. I‘m curious about Teslas plans. 10.000.000 or 20.000.000 cars ans some 100.000 Tesla Semis in 2030? And the left batteries are for Tesla PowerPacks? Or selling them to other car companies? Half of the world car production could be equipped with Tesla batteries.
@2cakesken 2 жыл бұрын
How come the Tesla China is missed out of these calculations , makes VW sooo far behind ,and losing market share at a frightening rate.
@flamingstag2381 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder how the future plans will be now without DIESS !!!
@johnowens8992 2 жыл бұрын
Its a raw materials problem, can have all the factories but if you havent any raw material they are useless
@manuelfilipe3721 2 жыл бұрын
👌
@B4ud3r 2 жыл бұрын
240 GWh is nothing when compared to VWs Volumes. This would equate to only 4 Mil. 60 kWh BEVs (+ maybe 1Mil ICE cars), so a shrinking of 50% until 2030. Because, tbh the market will be mostly BEV in 2030 and not at 60% as VW "wants" it to be.
@EinzigfreierName 2 жыл бұрын
2030 is just 8 years from now. No way the world wide BEV market is much more than 50-60% by then. Apart from that, VW will also buy batteries from other suppliers, just as Tesla does.
@harrydymond4488 2 жыл бұрын
Worldwide market for new cars will be 80% BEV by 2030. ICE sales will collapse to make this happen, rather than BEV being at 80% of today’s market size.
@danielvilliers612 2 жыл бұрын
@@harrydymond4488 I think everyone would like that, but reality about production ramping is far from that. Look at shortage of semi conductors etc, it just doesn't popup like this.
@harrydymond4488 2 жыл бұрын
@@danielvilliers612 Yes, I agree that "slow" ramping of production of batteries, motors, and semiconductors will restrict supply of BEVs. My point is that the car market as a whole is going to contract dramatically, because almost no-one will want to buy a new ICE vehicle. They will just wait for BEV to become available. Thus 80% of market can become BEV, even with restricted supply.
@murraywhittaker6452 2 жыл бұрын
@@harrydymond4488 Yes Harry, I agree, especially since fully autonomous vehicles will be common place within the next 2 - 3 years, which may well serve to dissuade potential cash strapped BEV customers from purchasing a car at all until they could afford a BEV.
@BlondieSuperdog 2 жыл бұрын
Lithium production for batteries is only sufficient to make about 5 million some say 10 million Tesla type EVs (BEV) The market is 140 million annually. Talk about lithium battery tech is basically useless. EV production will be limited by how much of the Lithium supply you can get; not car factories or how cool your battery tech might be. What EVs need is a better battery chemistry that scales.
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
No, the annual vehicle market isn't 140M, it's more like 65M. Look it up. And lithium production will grow as demand increases. Witness oil......declining resource? No, increases as demand and price does. And lithium is among the more abundant minerals.
@brucec954 2 жыл бұрын
So VW just fires Diess after this video. Will this torpedo VW's EV plan?
@abraxastulammo9940 2 жыл бұрын
Apple survived steve jobs. 🤷
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
@@abraxastulammo9940 Not really. It took his return to rescue the company from pending oblivion. Would they still be in business without the iPhone? doubtful.
@abraxastulammo9940 2 жыл бұрын
@@twhite5085 But he is gone from Apple... I don't think Diess is a tech visionary, MEB is much worse tech than Korean E-GMP, materials not premium. It takes them years to release a liftback version of their SUV with the same tech, too slow, too slow to compete in a rapidly changing market! 😱
@frecklesx20 2 жыл бұрын
Go be!
@user-lo4er8wy9l 2 жыл бұрын
Most Tesla stock holders don't really wish for other companies EV success, I know I don't. Am I the only honest one here?
@tdome3000 2 жыл бұрын
It's Volkswagen, not Voltswagen.
@chrissmith2114 2 жыл бұрын
I would love to know how much money German government is giving to VW, despite breaking EU laws ( which France and Germany do all the time ).
@jenslanger812 2 жыл бұрын
VW is focusing on BEV. An challenging issue there is that it is partially owned by the local government, and the Unions are knee-deep rooted into VW. They ousted Herbert Diess because he was not social enough (If you want to go away from ICE car production, lots of workers are not needed anymore. Local government and unions are now forcing VW into impossible moves). As a result, VW is fighting two drifting ankers (local government and Union), but on top of that, Germany is more ore less ruled by a completely nuts green party destroying the German industry. Means VW will not have enough energy for the car production. VW might have supersmart engineers and really skilled worker, but in this toxic environment VW is just toast. I wouldn't be surprised if Herbert Diess ends up at Tesla.
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
anchors?
@tarun1982 2 жыл бұрын
I love Elon but I want Tesla to get pushed like hell in competition and I wish they up their game as a result, even more.
@ohger1 2 жыл бұрын
Tesla is working at a frenetic pace right now. I doubt any more competition could push them further or faster. At some point in the future I could see Tesla getting lazy, but I don't think we have to worry about them for quite some time.
@byddf 2 жыл бұрын
Whoever wins... blade battery lose.
@RedPixel2023 2 жыл бұрын
VW just axed their head who was wholly into EV. Now VW is internally divided. So this hopes and plans has gone south.
@abraxastulammo9940 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe VWs won't be that slow anymore with a Porsche head. 😅
@BlondieSuperdog 2 жыл бұрын
Hey T you I likely thinking light cars and trucks; even w that Lithium EVs are just a small niche of the market. I am referencing all motor vehicles. Anything with a fossil fuel engine over 1 liter. It would even be larger if I would include under 1 liter motorcycles and motorbikes etc. I am including cars, trucks, buses, trains, long haul trucks, graders, dump trucks, harvesters etc etc.. You do want to replace all fossil fuel powered vehicles right? How about ships, aircraft, military vehicles. These are all included in CO2 figures for emissions for world transportation which is 16% of all CO2. Just for a reality check you ought to see what 1 super tanker consumes on one trip from Saudi to NYC - about 5 million gallons one way; one ship one one way trip.
@larslysdahl4586 2 жыл бұрын
On Tesla’s battery chemistry families I think they will make 4680s for nickel manganese and high nickel. And prismatic for LFP.
@tbatba7598 2 жыл бұрын
VW the new Nikola
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
VW the new NOKIA. More to the point.
@petergross2040 Жыл бұрын
The map show the Ukraine in Volkswagen Hemisphere
@cpeegberts2030 2 жыл бұрын
This video is with so much mistakes. First: Northvolt is all ready producing batteries. second: 240 gwh is just for Europe, not for the world.
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
Northvolt battery production is minimal developmental volume. Not commercially meaningful.
@kofManKan 2 жыл бұрын
More promises of thing years into the future. This is getting old fast....
@sdmarka100 Жыл бұрын
Good topics, great presentation, but whats with that creepy beard. Just shave dude
@robertlivingston5175 2 жыл бұрын
Listen, if VW could survive WW1 & WW2, they will survive "The Tesla Juggernaut"; but, it's going to feel like they had to survive a third ww.
@twhite5085 2 жыл бұрын
German military kept VW in business. When the war ended, they pivoted to commercial business. Simple. Transport and related products always needed.
@dancar2537 Жыл бұрын
4680 are a disaster by charge time. never going to buy a vw
@fscottcahill143 2 жыл бұрын
just wonder why you spend viewer's time stating your 'hopes'? Hopes are superfluous and certainly viewers have no need to hear yours.
@paintedpony2935 2 жыл бұрын
VW just lost their EV leader. I think you're pumping up a huge failure for VW.
@MrArtist7777 2 жыл бұрын
So far, the 4680 battery has delivered nothing new and hasn't lived up to any of it's promises. It charges slower, has about the same total volume capacity and nothing's changed in the price of the cars than the 2170 batts. Once again, Musk told lies and B.S., like his full self driving promises. I'm rooting for GM, VW and BYD to be the world leaders in EV's.
@alanrickett2537 2 жыл бұрын
Dry electrode is new and delivered, it charged faster, root for who you like GM will need your prayers,VW your help and BYD will be fine hope you are better at the arts than you are at science.
@jackarnold3290 2 жыл бұрын
Battery chemistry is evolving rapidly. So too soon to judge. Elon is optimistic, but does not lie. FSD is difficult, but improving every day. Tesla is superior, but I root for all EV makers.
@jameshoffman552 2 жыл бұрын
The fact that Tesla is actually delivering cars with 4680 structural packs, long before the pack architecture or batteries are optimized, is what distinguishes Tesla from also-rans like GM, VW and BYD, who aren't creating new battery technology at all, and are years away from shipping their BEVs in volume, equipped with 3rd-party powertrains.
@4literv6 2 жыл бұрын
@@jameshoffman552 byd though has the in house blade lfp cells in a ctp format starting with the new seal/atto 4 ev out later this month. Otherwise spot on comment! 👍🏻
@4literv6 2 жыл бұрын
It's the first production of an in house cell to pack setup as a structural pack design. It's the first mass produced cell of the 4680 format size. It's the first true tabless cell of any size or type produced at mass scale. It's got the dry cathode tech. I mean geez what else does anyone want from a first effort by tesla doing in house cells? 😁
@frecklesx20 2 жыл бұрын
Go be!
EXiAN BATMAN / Dont Touch My Bike
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