Check out Randy's story adapted by Marvel for the first time! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r92DnaqazLDQZ6s.html

The thing people also forget is that it never made Spider-Man angry or violent and that wasn't why he got rid of it, he got rid of it because it was exhausting him physically and draining his life force. The whole "the symbiote makes him EVIL" thing was from the 1994 animated series and it got so popular that it made its way into the comics via retcons.

I LOVED this costume...all my comic swapping friends loved it...granted I was 10 years old at the time...but still it was freaking awesome!

Love how casually it's noted that the '80s were a different era - when Marvel "tried to keep fans happy"

I was in school collecting when this happened. I never knew there was a backlash. There was no social media. I missed any criticism about the suit at the time. I thought the costume was dope. It made it's on webs and looked good.

The post-symbiote costume era was when I started reading Spider-Man regularly as a kid. In fact, the black costume intrigued me and I started buying the comics to learn more. I loved the brief period of time when Peter would alternatively wear the red and blues and the black -- it made the idea of Spider-Man actually changing clothes a reality (and thus made him feel more realistic).

"People don't give the first family enough credit" - I think there are 4 less than fantastic movies that are responsible for that nowadays lol.

"Fans hated it." (Nobody asked me back when it came out but I loved it!)

This was my favourite version of the Spidey suit, for these reasons... 1) It had it's own organic web-fluid and 2) he could change his costume at will, and disguise himself as anyone who he had contact with. Those were awesome skills for the suit to have.

I really have no clue what to say other than I've always loved the costume. I knew the history surrounding it but I'm surprised you didn't mention the second spider woman. I think she had some connection but it may cause some confusion

I think Storm’s Mohawk/punk look definitely shocked fans back in the day. That might be worth exploring in a future episode.

I’m definitely enjoying this new channel, it lets me expand my comic book and general geeky knowledge without having to dive into the monolith that is comics today and past.

Never knew all this about the black costume until I watched this video. Because of the knowledge that you have bestowed you Sasha are a fanboy stud

I was 14 at the time, and me & all my friends were absolutely loving the new suit. The haters were older fans. Have to say I was pretty bummed when it turned out to be an alien parasite.

I was a kid when this happened, I was reading comics, and every single comic book fan my age LOOOOOOOVED the black costume. If there were any "dissenting" voices, it was from the older 60's Stan Lee crowd that didn't like the change. That's it. Anything else is historical revisionism.

being I was 10-12 when this happened, it was pretty typical reaction in retrospect, kids like me loved it because it was new and different from all the bright colors/ flair on other costumes. Older fans hated it, but I loved it, simple but still Spider-man. Also, the shifting ability was fresh too. Making it a sentient creature wasn't that much of a shock to readers at that time given what we seen, then later naming the puppy Venom. peter david needs more credit in "creating" Venom, given Web of Spider-man #1

When the symbiote was first introduced, it would cover the exterior of the body. Spider-Man "wore" it. It wasn't really part of him. It didn't bond yet. I liked when it was just the black suit. That was my favorite Spider-Man. That was my introduction to Spidey in the eighties, the black suit Secret Wars action figure. My first Spidey memories are the comic panels on the back of that box. I had both versions of Spidey from that toy line. When Venom was introduced, it was the same deal with the symbiote, a living black suit, just with teeth. The host's head remained underneath the suit, behind the teeth. Over the next few years, that would change. Venom and Carnage would be depicted as fully bonded to their symbiotes, transforming with the suit as part of it, not separate from it. Their physical bodies went through the metamorphosis as well. The host's head no longer underneath the suit, behind it's teeth, but now, rather changing the host's own teeth. It was more of a physical metamorphosis rather than the suit just covering the host's body. I didn't like it at first, but I learned to. I understand things evolve. It's kind of cool.

I'm fan of all stories involving Venom, so while I believe the writers' decision was too hasty, it worked out in the end.

Black Cat: I love black suits... Me: imma be right back. Also me: frantically searches for black suit in crowded wardrobe.

I was 14 when it came out, and I loved it. I thought it was such a bold move. And the "tech" behind it (nanobots were speculated) was an idea that could have been such a huge thing for Peter. But, the symbiote was the story they went with. I liked the initial idea, but the Venom character took forever (and some good writers) to make the character gel for me. (Extra points for the Scanners clip. Bravo, Sasha. Bravo.)

I find it interesting that my favorite part of all comics across all companies was once hated by fans. The silver lining is without that backlash it wouldn't have been what it is today. Edit - the biggest thing forgot about all this is there was once a time where Marvel responded to fan backlash by trying to understand it and give the people what they want instead of... you know... spitting on them and wondering why they stopped paying.

The Symbiote costume will always be the best one

I’m not a massive comic reader but I love these whimsical deep dives into comic history. Playing Spider-Man on PS4 my fav costume was the punk one ... mostly because I found wearing it during cutscenes amusing.

If you see Venom's first appearance he did look quite disturbing with the braud eyes and a regular smile or grin but adding sharp teeth and long tongue made him look better

Sasha throwing tantrum at work: "HELL NO!! I am NOT doing top 10 superheroes with boob windows!!! And why are you coming to me with that? Let Johnny Rogers do that crap. Plus, I cant throw salt at Hal Jordan with list!"

As someone who read the original issues when he originally had the symbiote, the only thing it did was make Peter swing around at night while he was asleep to (possibly) feed off his energy. It was when he had a dream that the red/blue and black suits were pulling at him in a tug 'o war and seeing the suit move when he woke up, made him take Reed Richards up on his offer to have it examined. It was the 90s Spider-Man show that introduced the suit making Peter darker and hostile, which was followed by Spider-Man 3. I've never been a fan of change, but I really loved this suit, and you could tell Peter liked it. As far as Mr. McFarlane is concerned, I'll just say I'm glad he's not drawing for Spidey anymore.

you describe it awesomely!

Great vid thanks for the interesting information about the black suited spiderman

And now I want to see Sasha in a black costume or at least a green screen costume where we can FX a Sasha-Venom over it.

Favorite comic story arc for me. I started collecting Amazing Spider-Man just before the black costume was introduced when I was 11 or so. The reveal in Secret Wars was so cool. The next few years watching as Peter learns that the costume was an alien symbiote that was affecting his mind and wanted to bond with him permanently was another very cool reveal. And the snippets of the mysterious character who could get past Peter's spider-sense and the eventual introduction of Venom was the best time in comics for me. Spider-Man had an awesome new villain that he was partly responsible for creating and the change back to the old costume to alleviate Mary Jane's fears was just gripping storytelling.

The Spider-Man 3 Black costume is actually one of my favorite variations. I like the web pattern incorporated into the black suit.

You could do an entire series on Black Costumes: Spider-Man, Captain America, Iron Man, Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Nightwing. Not to mention other costume changes that actually went right.

Ah brings back some memories. The panel with the symbiote leaning over a sleeping Peter Parker is etched on my tiny brain.

Thank you for this video.

love your channel!

Love the channel. Sasha u r awesome. Love your passion for comics and your insight.

Im a new subscriber here, i love your humor, confidence and general knowledge of comics. PLEASE continue to feed us random info that comic lovers who weren’t alive during the earlier days wouldn’t know. Liking every video i watch ✌🏽😎

A character aesthetic change I hated but grew to love was the Supermullet

I was not expecting that “mind blowing” clip from Scanners to be included in this video. I was shook. 🤣🤣🤣

I was a preteen when the black suit was introduced and I didn’t recall that its introduction preceded Secret Wars origin story by a full year.

I love this new channel! The first time I saw the new costume I thought to myself "finally he is getting rid of the smelly blue and red." At the time Peter was doing the superman thing and wearing the costume under his street clothes and he was constantly mending that one outfit.

I liked this costume back as a kid because it was easier for me to draw.

I had seen Spider-Man in his traditional costume in the cartoons at the time (Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends), but my first introduction to him in the comics was of him wearing this costume and dating Black Cat. I must have been around 4 or 5-years old. But because it was my introduction to him in print, it was strange for me to later see him in his red and blue outfit, as well as discovering he and Black Cat had broken up. 7-year-old me was a little traumatized but recovered.

Also, cool video, really enjoyed it.

I know I'm late to the party but Secret Wars came out in 1984. The chronological appearance (Secret Wars #8) was 7 months after his initial appearance in Amazing Spider-Man #252. The month Secret Wars #8 came out Spider-Man had reverted to his original costume!!! But for awhile Spidey had 2 costumes - the black costume used almost exclusively in Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man book. Then in 1986 then Spider-editor Jim Owsley (now called Chris Priest) decided to make the black costume the ONLY costume. Approximately 20 months later Todd McFarlane made the red/blue suit the only one. Todd McFarlane briefly brought it back just before he left Marvel in 1991.

The Secret Wars series began in January 1984 and ended in December of that year. You are right in saying that the new costume debuted before the end of the Secret Wars series. The new costumed showed up in Secret Wars #8.

This makes sense. It's such a drastic departure from his original look.

I was skeptical about the white spider in Insomniac's game but I grew to love that suit.

I never knew about this, all I knew that it was from the Secret Wars, but not all the in between. Thank you, for sharing this, now I wanna read everything that brought about the suit and it's rebirth as Venom. When people give themselves nicknames it never really sticks, but maybe Casually Comics fans aka Fanboy Studs, heh. If this ever gets to be a shirt, I was thinking Fantastic Four Font for the phrase. You too can be a Fanboy Stud!

I was reading the comic when he got it. I loved it. Probably my most memorable story line i read as a kid.

I remember when I 1st saw it, I thought it looked too much like the Human Fly Brothers (Spidey villains from the 60s cartoon.) but it eventually grew on me.

Holy ****! 4 years? Wow this was a great video.

Great video

I have actually had comics fans flat-out _deny the existence_ of this version of the Black Suit Saga to my face, claiming that Venom's _"ORIGINAL origin!"_ involved J. Jonah Jameson's son and a space shuttle and so on. It's so hard not to scream at these people, especially when the cartoon explanation was over in the space of a two-part episode, the movie version was resolved in about 90 minutes and various other "reboots" have been equally rushed... I remember the Black Suit Saga and the birth of Venom as a character unfolding over more than a _year,_ with some deep psychological twists and soul-searching, and it was the best writing my prepubescent mind has seen in literature (with pictures or without) until that point! I was seven years old in 1984, and the first comic I read regularly was the UK printing of *_Transformers,_* but the _second_ comic I read regularly was *_Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars._* Due to the release schedule over here (and this being about a decade before the earliest internet spoilers), almost nobody over here had seen the black costume before its surprise appearance on the cover of _Secret Wars_ - as far as I was concerned it was the most normal thing in the world for Spidey to be wearing the old red-and-blue, since that's what I'd seen him wearing in the cartoons _(Spider Man And His Amazing Friends_ was on British TV around this time). Then Julia Carpenter turned up in the comic, and I remember clearly that my first thought wasn't, "Oh! Her costume's black now!" but, "Oh! Didn't Spider Woman used to have black hair in the cartoons...? And was her name always Julia...? And, oh yeah - like, different clothes or something..." Then came the big reveal (which I think was the very next issue, at least in the UK-published run) of Spidey's new costume on the front cover, and I was excited to find out how they were going to explain this! (I'd already figured out some of the genre tropes by this point, and knew they had come up with the costume first and probably cludged a storyline reason around it afterwards.) I was actually pretty satisfied with the whole 'wrong machine' explanation, and thought no more of it. Spidey had a new costume, it solved a couple of the problems I'd spotted with the old one (hiding it under street clothes, and a finite webbing supply) with this new 'organic' gimick and - to an eight year old in 1985 - it looked _coooool!_ But time moved on, _Transformers_ finally reached the end of its run, and the first _Secret Wars_ series wound down and concluded. But at least there was a continuation of the latter in the *_Secret Wars II_* series (in which Marvel UK sort-of mashed up the main, titled US limited series itself with some of the tie-ins from the other US books to string it out to several years' worth of issues), and I managed to get hold of some of the Spider books over here as well - I think back then reprints from all the titles were all smooshed together in one comic-magazine format as well. But barely a couple of months after the end of _Secret Wars_ the first, we got the start of the Black Suit Saga! I still remember vividly that cover art of Peter's nightmare, being pulled apart by those two stretchy and deformed suit-monsters... something about that hooked me on Spidey from that moment forward. I was already pretty precocious at that age, and the representation of the duality of personality and psychological head-games were pretty fascinating ideas when the only other thing to read was _Goosebumps!_ or _Nancy Drew_ books from the school library. After that I could only get comics sporadically - an imported US issue here or there when you were lucky enough to find one in some corner shop who bought them with no rhyme or reason, so the idea of long-boxes organised by issue or title was just Not A Thing unless you could get to one of what felt like a half-dozen import comic shops in the whole country. But whenever I saw Marvel imports on the newsstand-style shelves (usually hidden behind the British comics, peeking out where someone had slid something else along and covered it up), it would be either the Fantastic Four - sorry, but Reed had that same appeal for me growing up that Spock did in _Star Trek_ - or a Spider Man comic that I looked for first. I was actually pretty bummed that the black costume disappeared pretty quickly (from my personal perspective) and it was back to the red-and-blue, or sometimes red-and-black but the same basic design. That sleek, featureless Black Suit/Venom design was really interesting to my young eyes - and while nowadays I've learned to appreciate the subtleties of wrinkles on clothing and fine detail work in characters' faces, something about the simplicity of the Black Suit design made the body language easier to read and weirdly conveyed emotion to me much better in those days. The suit wasn't just _black,_ as it has been drawn since, but _flat_ black - and I think that forced the artists to work harder at illustrating non-verbal communication and dynamic movement than they had previously. The point of this ramble is that I never saw a rabid hatred for the Black Suit in the UK, but that might be because we didn't get our comics in the same order as you guys, so we didn't have a year of unexplained costume-change before _Secret Wars._ I remember the reaction ranging from "Cool!" to "Meh." but no real anger or resentment... but I guess that's because we didn't have the time to get worked up about it that the American audience did.

You all need to read ASM #267-The Commuter Cometh-Peter David writer and Bob McLeod artist-it is one of the greatest Spidey comics ever and certainly one of the most fun. In the beginning he is in the black costume and is attacked by the Human Torch because he thinks Peter went back to the alien symbiote (not yet called Venom) but Peter explains that Black Cat made it for him. After he is detained by police because no one believes he is really Spider-Man he ditches the black one and goes back to the original. This entire comic is a hoot!

I love the symbiote costume. Still to this day my favorite of his suits and I wish he had kept it. I mean considering these days where Venom isn't so much a villain as he is an anti-hero and the symbiote genuinely wants to do good.

Symbiote aside I liked Spider-Man in black. It makes him look more spider-like. Though for a backstory I would have preferred something closer to the anti-symbiote costume in the Spider-Man Unlimited cartoon.

Where I lived everyone went crazy for it. The book sold out the same day which was rare back then.

It's funny how things work out sometimes. While I didn't grow up in the 1980s, (I started reading comics as a kid in the 2000s) I can understand to a degree how an unexpected change can make the fanbase feel uncomfortable, especially when there's no context for what's going on. However, as long as the fan community can take a step back, acknowledge the difference of opinion, and EXPLAIN why they did or did not like it in a mature way, then I think that shows a good sense of respect.

Back then I had a pull list that included Spidey and so I lived through all this. You nailed it! That is exactly how I remember it all going down. We all freaked out with NO! NO! NO! Then 4 years later we were like, "But I like the black costume..." ;)

Still have my issue #252! I remember being a kid at my local comic book shop and the store owner saying, "You need to get this one! It'll be collectible some day." Don't think it's worth that much, but it's still cool to have.

I was a kid when it came out and bought the issue off the stand and have no recollection of anyone being anything but stoked about the coatume.

I saw the black & red one in the Spiderpool comics. I loved it cause Deadpool was so impressed... he was scared & turned on at the same time.

Yeah. I did hate it. Spiderman was always very happy-go-lucky character, despite all of the craziness going on in his life. It also got rid of the webbing in the costume. It was just a bit...much. As far as the Black Cat cloth version, just dumb.

That was by far my favorite Spider-Man costume.

I loved the black costume back in the day. It looked really cool & had an interesting story to it.

I own 2 copies of ASM 252 and Secret Wars 8 . I love opening them and seeing those old adds its my time machine.

Love ya work u make me laugh hello from Australia

Imma go back in time to this costume redesign contest and submit my own design.

That issue had always been a sore point with me.I'd been buying my Spider-Man comics off the racks at the local drug-stores, etc. This one sold out immediately, bought up by speculators. I had no idea that was a thing that happened, and bought a subscription right away to avoid this in the future. I was never able to afford a copy at the time, leaving a hole in my collection.

I hated the Sonic Boom Redesigns at first but now I love them

I LOVED it! Storm's Punk look was hated from inception but eventually became iconic (though still hated by many) I absolutely LOVED it. Punk Storm is favourite Iteration.

I was 12 in 1984 when Secret Wars came out. I still have my original 12-issues. I also still have my ASM #252 from when I was 13. I don’t remember any fan outage. Me and all my friends in middle school loved the new costume.

I loved the black costume from the very beginning. There was a series of figures based on Secret Wars and the one I wanted most-and eventually got- was Spider-Man in the black costume.

Loved it instantly

I like both Spider-Man’s classic Red & Blue and the Symbiote Suit equally.

I had ASM #252 as a kid. Can't remember if it was given to me or one of the 1st comics I bought myself. I also had the Secret Wars figures of Spidey in both the classic and black & white costume.

As a kid at the time. Black suit spiderman was my favourite spiderman. Always thought the color black was cool and loved the design of the spider logo in the suit. I was super jealous when a kid in my class had the black suit spiderman action figure. I still think that the suit is cool.

The change in color also coincided with the change over in printing techniques, from dot to four color I surmise, which for the first 2 years or so was resulting in massive splotchiness and unevenness in every Marvel book. They were still working out the process by the time I stopped collecting in the Summer of ‘89 as I headed off to college. Worldcolor still had an affective monopoly on comic book printing, so they could drive down ink prices to make more complex color styles viable. The Hulk supposedly went from grey to green over the high price of grey ink in the 60’s.

The first time I saw the black costume, I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

Amazing Spider-Man 252 and Secret Wars 8 are both in my collection, I loved that costume as a kid. It was the 80's and black everything was suddenly the new style (I remember reading a People magazine article on it at the time). Eventually D.C.'s Trinity all had temporary black costumes, but Spidey was first.

Spiderman PS4 uses the original fan concept and black cat gift and merged it into the story perfectly

After listening to this nice bit of history, you have to wonder if Spidey would've continued to be as iconic and as popular had they never gotten rid of the black suit. Personally, it's one of my favorites, and I love it much more than I do the original in pretty much every respect. But it's interesting to think of how it might've altered future Spider-Man stories or the how he would be altered in adaptations or film.

[I made this comment on another video, but it fits better here 8-) ] People hated the black costume?? For crying out loud! As a kid I loved it. The red and blue is a classic and it's fine. In the mid-80s several big time superheroes had new 80's costumes. As a kid I really felt like "These ain't your father's superheroes anymore." Spider-man, Thor, Iron-man and the Hulk (he was grey and could talk in complete sentences! What??) all had new looks. Storm had an awesome 80's black leather costume with a great white mohawk. Rachel Summers was Phoenix with an incredibly wicked costume. I was all for it.

I remember when the black costume came out. I don't think fans hated it that much. But I was a kid, about 10 or 11. I still have my copy of "Web Of Spider-Man "#1 laying around.

It was kinda like that for me. Now, over here in México back then comics were almost vanished. Huge economic crisis, paper industry went down, so Spidey was all we had. Therefore all three real geeks in the land got onboard. Then the costume change, like that, no hint, no nothing. That was because Secret War wouldn't be published until months later -we still get the "reprint licenses" about a year later-. And yes, at first I thought it was ugly and had nothing to do against the original red-and-blue. Truth is, I never actually got to "love it" as much, and actually felt relief when Venom was created 'cause it kept creeping back. Now, Venom is another story. At first he gave me the creeps, it was so good. Later, it got SO old, making Joker-like appearances every two issues...

My personal favorite...so much better than many modern look..especially those from the movies.

My first Spidey comics had him in the Black suit, I thought he looked super cool and Kraven's Last Hunt is a classic!

I swear I remember a story of someone wanting to change Spider-man's costume because they were tired of drawing all the webs on it. I can see that being tedious. If I'm not mistaken John Byrne had write in contest for fans to redesign Sue Storms hair. I found a small thing about it in an Omnibus.

ASM #58 in my opinion is an incredible and underrated book written by Tom Defalco. We have the confrontation between Maryjanne Watson and Black Cat with Parker caught helplessly in the middle. Parker later learns from Reed Richards that his black costume is a living Alien. On top of that he has to deal with the hobgoblin. Then we get the cliffhanger ending where MJ continues to insist to Parker she knows he is Spider-Man and she understands him and his secret because she has a secret that she has kept from telling everyone also.

I loved it, my uncle had this secret wars arch, we loved it.

I've been a fan/ collector forever. And I've always dug the black suit.

i never forgot about the symbiote costume

I have secret wars #8 and father's night out on my wall right now haha. Easily my favorite spiderman costume. I believe they gave him the costume to save on ink cost but I'm not sure how true that is.

That costume is awesome!

Great video, Sash ... can I call U Sash?!

Personally, I loved Spider-Man's black outfit. It was a really great upgrade from the classic red & blue costume. Its said then Marvel EIC Jim Shooter bought the idea from a fan for $225.00. (see Sean Howe's Marvel Comics: The Untold Story). Have a Facsimile Edition of Amazing Spider-Man #252 and I found it a good enough read. In Marvel Age Magazine #12, Spidey's new costume was supposed to have a Red spider symbol.

black suite is my favorite suite which lead to my favorite Marvel Anti Hero. Second favorite suite was always the classic Ben Riley Scarlet spider suite (the redesign is ok). I love the hoodie.

It's a nice costume. The red & black "Black Cat" costume in the PS4 Spider-Man game is eally nice as well.

I loved the Black Spider-man costume and I loved Todd McFarlane for drawing it. By the way Todd McFarlane co created of the Venom character alongside with Peter David, whom also gets no acknowledgement for the Spider-Man based character. Was sad that the black costume itself was going to be put away. But I was happy to see Spider-Man wear the black costume again in the SPIDER-MAN # 13 issue - SUB-CITY, when Spider-Man goes after Moebius in NYC's sewers. Speaking of things that don't last, because of Mary-Jane's fears about Peter Parker not coming home alive or not at all was the leading reason why they got Divorced.