Haha thanks man, I quite liked this thumbnail too

Also tbf is not like all the other Gundam shows didn't have their problems either, people really overrate Zeta but in reality the story takes itself too seriously to its own detriment when a lot of the episodes is the same dramas stretched over 3-4 episodes when could be resolved in one. I do love Zeta but really it suffers from "edgy idolization" within its fans, same happens with Thunderbolt and Iron Blooded Orphans, a lot of fans don't think about the heavy subjects they just automatically like because it has heavy subjects. But when something like ZZ has goofy moments is a complete sin and garbage despite the context of the story making perfect sense.

Kamile was originally going to be Char's left hand man in the movie, which I feel was a large wasted opportunity since that would make perfect sense for him and Fa to defect and would have made a good contrast with Judea and Roux who would have been a year back from their 5 year stint around Jupiter.

@@ZontarDow The idea that Char tried to force a Cyber Newtype lab to heal Kamille but only got ta cheap immitation wearing Kamille's skin out of it is very interesting, and would further drive Char crazy into even more extreme actions like the drops. I don;t think a healed Kamille would defect.

That’s what I wanna hear! And ZZ does get into your typical Gundam grittiness towards the latter half of the series, so you get a bit of everything

Oh don’t worry it gets real gritty later on in the story, has some really dark moments too

Get to your point before 10 min in. You are boring me.

@@TheSamm1979why did you click a nearly 40min video expecting in depth reasoning in the first 10mins ?

​@leftsidehurt You do kind of make reference to your thesis within the beginning or did no one teach you how to write. Brief intro, thesis, supporting arguments. Not even in a doctorate level thesis do you write a 4 page intro, it does not respect your audiences time, and comes off as boring. Anything else?

IT GOT SO LONG, I'M SO SORRY!!!!

@@TheBigHaloFreak don’t apologise! I love seeing long comments like this sharing perspective. Just cause I made the video on the show doesn’t mean I’m right 😅 Regardless I think we’re pretty aligned anyway, because I do agree Haman would’ve had doubts that stemmed from her encounter with Kamille. I mean idk how newtype shenanigans would feel in real life, but by the way it’s portrayed in Zeta, it’s hard to believe you WOULDNT change as a person after that. Even if just a little. Judau was definitely the final straw that broke the hard exterior of Haman though. And to that end it makes sense why she was obsessed with him, but I’ll still dislike the idea of her being ‘romantically’ interested in him in any way it just, doesn’t make sense. But recruiting him and having an ally as strong willed as Judau behind her cause? That’s a reasonable excuse to pursue him. And like you said, she starts to doubt herself, more than likely in part to Judaus constant refusal. If someone THAT strong willed, that instilled that much fear in you, is adamantly fighting against you and everything you stand for, despite your constant offers to join forces, yeah, it’s gonna make you doubt your beliefs. Regardless though, I still think that Haman believed her methods to be ‘right’ up until the end, but she wasn’t a heartless monster by any means. She had her doubts and I can kinda see what you’re saying about Mashymere’s death too after revisiting it. And the final fight is definitely a symbolic atonement for what she’s done, but you’re also right in saying she’s far too proud to ever admit she might’ve gone about things in the wrong way.

Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily romantically interest either. If you're that closed off to people, you'd want any good person you like to have with you, as any sort of company. I just remembered another thing of her cracking confidence is the fact, she wears a normal suit in the last battle and I don't know the exact words but she said something along the lines of "Can't believe this boy made me wear a normal suit". It's an interesting bit considering she never wore one before and went into battle with full confidence and now she goes in not knowing how it will turn out. Of course, part of it is Judau just being super strong but it's probably also her hesitation. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Also, I think is pretty cool how she and Char are the same but reversed in a way. In Zeta, Char as Quattro is trying to be the further away possible from Zeon without realizing he can't just brush off the past, he can't just change his name and pretend he is another person, him as Char and the OYW will never leave him, be his traumas or just what symbol he is for spacenoids and Zeon, he is trying to hide from himself in the worst way possible and in the end he kinda makes all the errors all over again. Meanwhile Haman made herself a Char 2.0 for Axis, even imitating his mannerism, like you pointed out not using a normal suit in battles, even painting the mobile suits with a flashy color etc. She made that because was what Axis wanted Char to be, a fearsome leader of Zeon, specially because she wanted Char to be that, but after he refused she took the role he left empty, not only as a new Char, but a better one. But after Judau she began to question that idealistic visual of Char she was trying to be, and more and more she was seeing herself exactly the Char she hated, the one who didn't take the role of leader of Zeon and relegated himself to lie about who he is. Also I think the romantic and sexual stuff is completely possible after reading Char's Deleted Affair, in a meta way Haman wished to be a second Lalah, she wanted to be loved by Char, but in the end he had no interest in her what made her frustrated on herself. When she finds Judau was a role reversal, she was the older one that should be idolized for her accomplishments, but in the end is all Char Deleted Affair again, Judau doesn't want her in any way, she wants to dominate him but he will not budge. Not to mention that a big chunk of Judau's journey is searching and trying to rescue younger girls from the hands of darker powers, so I think an underlying theme of grooming is present, and Tomino is very well known for sexual themes and imagery, those being even more represented in works where he didn't have many limitations impose by studios. Said that I don't believe ALL she wants is to fuck Judau, I think is more that if she can control him to that point she will feel reaffirmed as the better Char she is trying to be, I even believe is because of that Char appears in the intro next to Judau, in the past she wanted Char, now she wants Judau, in her mind both will fill the same role.

That’s the goal! Love to hear it

Oh damn, I gotta give that a watch now too

@@Viseak It has a companion anime, the first isekai, Aura Battler Dunbine, a magical mecha series and they both form the "Lilith saga" as they both feature a dummy thicc fairy with the same character design and VA. Also Dunbine features Las Vegas, Dallas, a bunch of other locales, and the Main characters is literally the opposite of most isekai protagonists. He was an angry young dude literally Too Cool to Live and was abducted for doing "totally rad motorcycle stunts" and they thought he'd be a good magical mech pilot. He gets summoned while jumping a honda gold wing, a cruiser bike, over a car on a public street.

ALSO I need to add that Dunbine is one of the first anime that features Norio Wakamoto as a voice actor.

ANYWAY TO FURTHER CONTINUE. Dunbine and L-gaim were the two anime Tomino did after Gundam and before Zeta. Once you see Gaim you realize Tomino has a pattern of getting depressed after a "Tomino Ending" and making something more light hearted. Dunbine and L-Gaim were 83 and 84. It also makes sense when you remember Victory was followed by Turn-A.

@@IRUKANJI well, looks like I’ve got a lot more Tomino lore to check out hahaha

You should seriously write for a living lol

According to some obscure material, the genetic father of all the Ple and Glemy is Gihren Zabi. Glemy has a different genetic mother though.

@@fakesmile172 I'm willing to believe that but I never looked into it. The only explanation I've heard is that there was another zabi princess on mars that they're all cloned from and it only could be a weird lovechild of Kycilia (red hair, kinda makes sense) or one of Ghirens but I don't think it was ever canon.

@@IRUKANJI No clue about that rumor. Could be possible though. Also, if one of the episodes of Gundam Evolve is canon, Judeau rescues one of the Ple clones.

Best comment in the history of ever.

I mean it’s not an anime, it’s real life

@@Viseak True. True. Loved the video, man. Keep it up!

ANIME JA NAI!

Thank you!

Honestly the 90s OVA crowd are really annoying and hurt discussion about the UC a lot, mostly because they have a very narrow opinion of what Gundam is, despite the fact that some of these opinions, such not liking newtypes, are going against what Gundam actually is.

What exactly is the motivation not to skip ZZ? I will find out Marida Cruz's background? They way they desecrated Zeta Gundam's design? The half-hearted and forced "happy ending" of Kamille? The trivial end of Karn? Her weird relationship with Judau? The fact they know they fucked up and half trough the show change course? The cast was hardly more interesting, quite the opposite. Some of the characters were insufferable. I've watched them all. Don't be simple. I've met very few UC fans that actually like it.

I started with Zeta, and really hate ZZ because of how it followed up the ending to Z Gundam with wacky slapstick. Tonal whiplash felt horrible at the time. Still can't really tolerate it. This is probably because of the timing, considering I was watching them when they were new, and I just felt that comedy gundam really didn't work after the ending to Z. Yes ZZ tries to fix itself after about episode 21, but it does it by recycling plot points from original gundam.

@@desireless4092 Could be worse, could be "A New Translation"

​@@desireless4092 This one gets it.

No worries! It definitely gets too much flack for what it is, and I much preferred it to 0079 as well, Zeta on the other hand I still like a little better haha

Thanks for the kind comment mate, read this earlier today but only just getting back to it now haha, gotta say you made my day 🫶🏼

Thanks! I thought it turned out pretty well 😄 I think you’ll enjoy Turn A, it’s a pretty great and unique entry for sure

Well if you like ZZ, it got recommended to you for all the right reasons Glad you enjoyed the video 🫶🏼

Yeah it’s a shame it gets such a bad rep, it’s honestly a great Gundam entry

@@Viseak Judau is one of my favorite protags in the UC and probably Gundam in general. He's such an interesting character.

Cheers man 🫶🏼

@@Viseak same to you

I think Glemmy had some latent programming... Or that Gihren sociopathy taking over.

Dub Judau is Bulk Hardcheese it's very silly how grown he sounds despite being the youngest of the early UC protags.

@@DIEGhostfish True it be silly but it be faster if it was Dubbed, some anime watchers basically refuse to watch subbed only films/shows even thou they can be really good.

Honestly, CCA skips half of its own story so is not a big deal.

Right? Crazy how a lot of people just write it off

I call it as I hear it. They may write it Ple but it's absolutely pronounced Puru.

Judau's 15 though. He's built as hell, so people forget he's the *youngest* of the three early UC protags.

Well, that makes a lot of sense And yeah, it really goes to show what Tomino can pump out when push comes to shove. And when he’s in more of the right headspace

I wouldn’t go so far as to call it the whole first half nonsense (although sure, there are some nonsensical moments), but I think a break from the rigid and gritty nature of Gundam was a breath of fresh air that entirely made sense for a group of essentially orphaned kids who hadn’t yet truly experienced war. Sure they caught strays from it, they’re clearly doing it a little rough on Shangri-La, but they hadn’t yet seen anything first hand to really make them take anything seriously, and I feel like the shows tone reflects that. It’s a little jarring, sure. But the new perspective we get works as a perfect way to deconstruct what Gundam had built up thus far, and build it back up again towards the end of the show. With all that being said though, I can’t deny the start is STILL a hard pill to swallow for some, and that’s fine, but I think in retrospect after seeing the series as a whole, it’s kinda justified and makes sense. I’m curious what your thoughts are on WFM though 🤔 I finally caught up with it last week after putting off watching it all this time and… I’ve actually really enjoyed it

@@Viseak To make a very long story short as I kind of got attacked by some people who say that this was the best written gundam show in the series...... I personally have to disagree only because the prologue got me so hypee up to a lot of interesting and cool ideas only for the rest of the first season to feel like a total drag. Like don't get me wrong one character I really like has the best character development out of every single character in the show, I do like Suletta and some of the mobile suits are cool but however my main issue stems from the fact that that's just 1 character as everybody else just feels like they're just there to fulfill a purpose and nothing more than that. Plus I feel like that we spent way too much time in the school setting instead of actively setting up a story so by the time we get to the final 2 episodes of season one it's like yes we finally picked up the Pace but it came at the cost of waiting so long for something to actually happen. Which is why I never bothered watching season 2 and only came across some scenes in passing like how the one character I like is still the only 1 to have a really good character arc while everyone else including our main heroine just fell out for me. Like yes season 2 did basically give some characters stuff to do but I wish it happened during season one or was properly built up rather than just toss to the wayside so we can focus on things that don't really matter or like IBO season 2 make everyone be stupid just to make the main villain be smarter. That's just my opinion but I did at least give season one a chance, I do like Suletta despite my personal issues with her as a Protagonist and her growth and that one dark skinned girl....wooof is she fine lol.

@@MrDarksol It’s pretty fucked you got attacked for an opinion on a show lmao I guess that’s just how the internet goes some times I suppose 😅 It all comes down to personal biases at the end of the day though, like anyone saying WFM is the best Gundam ever written probably just hasn’t seen enough Gundam. Or it was just their first Gundam. Same argument as I bloody have for people who obsess over the Azure Moon route in FE3H 😭 Needless to say though, I still think WFM is pretty good, and hopefully it sticks the landing even though it’s really ramped up far too quickly at the end here. But I don’t think it’s peak storytelling or anything. I mean as a LOT of people have pointed out, it’s clearly heavily inspired by/borderline a retelling of The Tempest. Im not really a Shakespeare guy but it’s hard to deny the impact of the guys work and just as hard to fuck up a story based off one so highly acclaimed. With that being said, maybe I had a different opinion cause I didn’t start with the prologue… I didn’t realise the prologue even existed until the end of season 1. So my watch order was S1 -> Prologue -> Season 2 Which was actually really cool. Everything felt like such a mystery and things were being ever so slowly unraveled then BOOM I watch the prologue and so many puzzle pieces click together but I’m also still kinda confused then BOOM season 2’s Aerial reveal and then it just keeps hitting and hitting and hitting until where we’re at now. Which is just going a little too fast, but we’ll have to wait and see what happens next. I get what you’re saying about the characters though but I feel like it’s more than just a Suletta story. At bare minimum I feel like it’s a Suletta & Miorine story. With S1 being more Miorine focused and setting up Suletta to get the help she needed and take more focus in S2. But again I get what you mean about it being just a Suletta story cause it DOES kind of feel like a lot of characters are in there purely to fuel her growth. Like Guel and Elan and the entirety of the earth house. They literally helped her tick items off her little bucket list that’s how in your face it was they were there to help her grow. But even so, I did enjoy what these characters brought to the table themselves, especially Guel and his whole mini earth arc. I get what you mean about S1 though, but I can’t say I hated it. The best way I can describe it, is that it gave me Zoids Fuzors vibes (but in a good way). It’s like WFM is what Fuzors could have/should have been. Obviously instead of fighting for money and such you’re fighting in school but it’s still essentially for sport. Then of course there’s clearly something dark brewing in the background. A little mystery if you will. Then there’s the quick introduction of the new overpowered mech that flips everything on its head, in Fuzors case, Fuzors, and in WFM’s case, Gundam’s. But then Gundam takes a far better approach flipping the entire show on its head to create an all out damn war with a million spoilers I shouldn’t mention. Whereas Fuzors just kept doing the same boring thing and went nowhere with its plot threads, plus of course, it looked terrible. Honestly though I’d rate giving S2 of WFM a go if you haven’t already. The first ep is a little slow but that’s it, it immediately picks up from there and doesn’t let you go.

@@Viseak I might give season 2 a watch but considering my thoughts about season one combined with most of what I've heard from someone who has been watching season 2 it's probably just gonna be a wait until It is over and maybe binge watch It and I say hardcore maybe. But oh don't get me started on the azure moon route from 3 houses as I still have friends who proclaim it as the best route in that whole game and another friend who proclaims that Claude's route was the best in the whole game....... You notice the complete lack of anyone saying anything nice to a certain red emperor lol.

nah man, Glemy is an awesome Antagonist

Not really. GT was not even "canon". ZZ is the official sequel to Z. Also, GT is more disliked than ZZ.

@@juresaiyan Ah interesting that ZZ is better liked because I have seen some people complain about it. And you are very much correct when you say that ZZ is canon, whereas GT is not.

Hahaha maybe I was just too harsh on Awakening lmao Robotech / Macross was great in its own right so I can’t blame you there. Might need to do a video on it at some point too 🤔

@@Viseak From a *totally* not biased point of view, you were definitely too harsh about Awakening. Totally not biased bc it was my first FE game though That would be AWESOME!!!!

@@hinata1ize haha I may have been a teeny bit biased too Wasn’t really Awakenings fault it wasn’t 3H, and it wasn’t really fair to judge it based on my enjoyment of 3H Guess that just means FE as a whole wasn’t reeeaaally for me, just the 3H formula lol (although I did enjoy echoes SOV, still not as much as 3H tho)

LMFAO you’re the second person that’s tied me to him now, had someone else ask me if I was his brother or something 😭 And twinkification cmon 💀

Hahaha I mean technically, you could skip it, and I get wanting to get to that highly acclaimed film sooner cause it is a treat to watch, but even so, I still recommend watching ZZ all the way through. I genuinely really enjoyed my time by the end, I rate it far higher than the likes of 0079, but not as good as something like Zeta. Haman Karn is a really interesting antagonist to see through to the end, and it does give context to the events of CCA PLUS gives you heaps of references when you get to Unicorn

@@Viseak Thank you so much for taking the time to respond back. Do you get enough of Haman Karn and Darwin's little girl in Zeta or not? I watched the 0079 Movie Trilogy and not the series coming off of Origns which easier. At the end of the prequel it slides right into the movies and the voice actors pretty much almost sound the same. I know they changed the dialogue from the original to the movies to make the dubbed so much better. I'm still not going to watch ZZ, but instead go on the Wiki to read the summary or watch some KZfaqr channel😂 haha!

You can 100% skip it. Zeta leads into CCA.

I like that interpretation and it definitely fits. Plus you’re right, people are definitely cheating themselves if they skip out on ZZ

@@Viseak it’s so much fun. I also like how at the start as I mentioned when Judau sees Kamille for the first time at the beginning and Kamille immediately senses his dormant power and “unlocks” it. It’s wild that to end Zeta Scirocco crippled Kamille’s mind.. only for him to low key be amped in ZZ and gain even more depth to his Newtype power.

Yes you can. I only need to tell you 2 things and you are good to go continuing with Char's Counter Attack Haman dies The surviving Ple clone continues her story in Unicorn Gundam That's it. None of the major and important UC characters are directly affected by ZZ. It is safe to skip to such a degree, that Zeta Gundam New Translation retconed Kamille's fate so you can skip ZZ. I still recommend the oirginal Zeta Gundam, skip ZZ if it becomes chore (and with that dumb comedy and stupidity most of the time...) at the very lest skip for the sake and decency of Bright Noa who's character was greatly insulted in this trash.

@@desireless4092thanks for your input, casual.

@@ttravis10 anytime soy-boy

It really is the most under-appreciated Gundam

"Victory Gundam is another trash" Your opinion is invalid. Victory Skipper can't feel the excitement of Tomino finally recovering from his depression in Turn A.

@@the_Pleiades you have no power over me but Victory Gundam is still trash

I’d go so far as to say it’s good, it just has some things that hold it back from being great. And you’re right, the haters are wild